http://tarpley.net/2010/08/19/neocon-petraeus-stakes-out-conflict-with-obama/

According to Webster Tarpley the neocons want General Petraeus to be a presidental candidate to replace Obama.They want someone who is more war like,since Obama has balked at attacking Iran.There are reports that Edud Barak is telling close friends that Israel will attack Iran in the near future and draw the USA into a wider conflict.

I cannot see the Democrats winning but Mitt Romney will not stand up against Israel with their aggression towards Iran.

Vladmir Putin has been instrumental in getting the BRICS Nations to get a development bank instigated,to free themselves of the immenent collapse of the US Dollar & EURO.

The neocons have fallen back on their age old solution of war to escape unrest at home and maintain their power bases.The West will not win a conventional war against Russia and China.They have not the moral high ground nor the man power.

The West will not win a conventional war against Russia and China
Arjay,
What makes you think Russia will not support the West at crunch time ?

Individual,China was supposed to roll over in 2008 and allow the Western bankers take control of their financial system like we have done ie debt based system of money creation.They let them in partially but now still create 80% of their money by Govt banks.This is one of the reasons they have growth rates 3-4 times that of the West.This means lower tax for the people and the money stays in China.

Putin recently brought in new regulations on foreign capital and is moving to lessen the influence of Western Bankers with the BRICS Development Bank.

The West is broke,has no productivity,manufacturing and their toxic derivatives have our economies held in ransom.The Oligarch's only solution is war and try and steal wealth like they've done so for many decades.

For Russia/China to come on side with the Western Oligarchs,this means debt slavery which the West is consumed by.They want Iran for two reasons.Oil and take over their independant banking system.

That is an astute appraisal Arjay, your are excellent at joining the dots. What you said about China is spot on. So much so that Maurice Strong now spends most of his time in China. So the banksters have got their boy (old bastard) Maurice on the ground pushing their agenda, but China has been homogenous and self supporting for ten thousand years and the banksters won't change that.

Funny Arjay, but China is the great white hope for us, one of the only things that stops the military power of the banksters doing whatever they want.

Thanks sonofgloin.This is why we are in such a dilemma.China our biggest trading partner maintains our living standards while our Govts stay wedded to Wall St and Bankers who are robbing us blind.

If Iceland can go it alone with a new finance system,why cannot Australia? China and Russia are not our enemies.

These Banking/Oil cartels are the grestest threat to world peace and the survival of the planet.

Currently our private banks are borrowing from OS banks who just create money with the click of a computer mouse.Why cannot our RBA do likewise and save us from enormous debt?

Arjay,
I think you overestimate China in some ways.

First of all, they are totally dependent on the West for their success. If we stop using them to manufacture our goods on our behalf, they have little left to support themselves.

Despite the outward appearance of a small wealthy minority, most Chinese simply cannot afford to buy the goods they produce for us. Their domestic economy is not the same as their global production.

Either way, if we stop indulging ourselves in buying ever-cheaper consumer goods China would collapse and life in the west would become vastly more expensive.

Economist Ravi Bahtra said decades ago that he believes leadership follows cycles. One age is denoted by the need for disciplined,decisive and authoritarian leadership. We were due for "The Age of the Warrior" when General Shwartzkopf was at his popular peak but declined to run. Perhaps it's due again?

rache,the worthless derivative market in the West is 20 times the World's GDP.Brazil,China,India Russia have now formed a currency/trading alliance which is giving them indpendance from the Western mess.They are growing their economies independantly of the West.The West relies more on China than vice versa.

Arjay has hit on some important points.
It has already been suggested that someone in the Pentagon will
establish a military government if the politicians cannot save the US
government from a total financial and economic crash.

Those derivatives that Arjay has mentioned have already been making
some organisations very worried. They amount to amounts approaching a
hundred trillions.

The next crunch point, not necessarily the last, will be 1st January next.
Seems over the top doesn't it, to me it is, but it is the arithmetic !

Well we will soon know if the mighty USA is to survive. Even with all their advantages some sense has to be used.

If the yanks can be stupid enough to elect Obama again, we will know they've had it.

If that's the case we will have not much more than 10 years to find another way to get by in this nasty world. We will find no sympathy to our north west, so where can we run?

I wonder if anyone will still speak English in a hundred years?

This is turning into one of the more entertaining threads on OLO. Conjecture, speculation, surmise, suppositions, assumptions, postulations, hypotheses - all piling in one upon the other in a great heap of... nonsense.

That's par for the course in any conspiracy thread. But it is actually quite saddening to find so many people who catch onto a random thought, and propagate it without even the vaguest suspicion of fact checking. If the internet is going to displace journalism in this fashion, with "news" being gleaned from tweets and blogs instead of conscientious investigation and corroboration, then we are going to rapidly become a race of fantasists, grabbing onto the slightest factoid and imagining it to be true, "because I saw it on the web".

I think the saddest part of all, though, is that the internet is also a powerful tool for discovering the reality behind these ramblings. Why have we suddenly stopped using it for this purpose, I wonder, and instead use it to fuel our wildest theories about global hegemony, evil banksters and the giga-trillions of "debt" that some folks glory in talking about?

And what of the sources?

>>According to Webster Tarpley... There are reports that... China was supposed to roll over in 2008... The Oligarch's only solution is war... the worthless derivative market in the West is 20 times the World's GDP... etc.etc.<<

Tell us, Arjay. Have you ever, even just once, been right about anything that you have claimed on OLO?

I can't be bothered to debunk every piece of dross that you have regurgitated here. But for those still in doubt, figure only this.

>>...the worthless derivative market in the West is 20 times the World's GDP<<

By definition, this means that the derivative market is not counted in the "world's GDP".

So, where is it? It clearly doesn't appear in a bank account anywhere, so what is it actually worth, in real money, the sort that you can spend down the coffee shop?

Pericles,do yourself a favour and read some of the articles here, http://www.globalresearch.ca/

No the derivative market is not part of the world's GDP.It is monopoly money.It is a big casino parasite that destroys real productivity.

This is big development.http://tarpley.net/ 30 countries including China,Russia,India,Iran,Venezuela,Sudan etc have voted against attacking Syria.This represents almost half the planet's pop.

So the Western Imperialists have to work our a new plan.Perhaps a false flag attack on the US Enterprise and blame Iran,which is due for decommissioning.It will cost $ billion to decommission its nuke reactors.

No Pericles, I am always very skeptical of any conspiracy theories
but this time Arjay has brought up a real threat.
The US has really big debts yet the Republicans are refusing any tax
increases and in fact insisting on reductions.
The Democrats know what is needed but cannot summon the courage to do it.
On January the first the US Government runs out of money. This has
happened previously, but this time they have no credit to borrow against.
They will, if the two parties cannot come to an agreement to print a
lot more money, default on their borrowings.
They will stop paying the military and public servants and government
departments will close.
As mad as this sounds, it happened in 1998 when I was there on a
brief visit. Pensions we were not being paid, public servants were
sent home and one of those I met had no information on when he was to
go back to work.

Have you forgotten the panic last year when they almost defaulted
but they came to a patch up to keep going to Dec 31st 2012.

We may be getting somewhere at last, Arjay.

>>No the derivative market is not part of the world's GDP.It is monopoly money.It is a big casino parasite that destroys real productivity.<<

So, you believe that the derivative market is external to the world's GDP. Ok. But how, then it can have any impact at all on the world's economy?

Just one example will do.

"Monopoly money", as I recall from my childhood, was put back in the box at the end of the game, and never had the slightest impact on my flow of pocket money. Is this a good analogy?

>>It is a big casino parasite that destroys real productivity.<<

In what way does it destroy productivity, Arjay? If you believe that it sits outside the world's GDP, how can it possibly have any effect on productivity, one way or the other?

It is quite possible that working through these questions in an honest and ideology-free manner will finally set you on the road to understanding a little about how finance and commerce actually work.

Possible. But I fear unlikely.

Almost certainly, you will avoid it once again.

Your loss.

Don't get sucked in, Bazz. You're better than that.

>>No Pericles, I am always very skeptical of any conspiracy theories
but this time Arjay has brought up a real threat.<<

Not at all. None of Arjay's "threats" actually materializes. Ever. I recently asked him to point to even one. Silence.

But, to your issue.

>>On January the first the US Government runs out of money. This has
happened previously, but this time they have no credit to borrow against<<

You are mixing up two separate issues.

The "run out of money" deadline is in fact September 30th. Like last year's brinkmanship, the likely outcome is another quick-fix "patch" that will involve some more money being printed. Enough to get past the November election, anyway.

The December 31st date you refer to is when the "fiscal cliff" begins; if legislation isn't passed before then, the across-the-board tax cuts that are presently in place will disappear. Then, on January 2nd, automatic spending cuts come into play. The net effect of which will be (theoretically) to increase the tax take, and reduce expenditure - superficially "good things", in the scheme of things.

But the consensus is that if this comes into being, the USA will tip over into another phase of the recession.

It may be difficult to get one's head around. But right now, extracting more taxes and tightening up on public spending are not the answer.

Have a great day.

You are clutching at straws Pericles.The awareness continues to grow and Bazz like others are beginning to realise that these Oligarchs who control our supply of money have one thing in mind,ie more and for them and less of everyone else.Bazz now realises how toxic these derivatatives are.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/08/12/foreign-cash-disqualifies-romney-from-presidential-bid/ If Gordon Duff is right,then Mitt Romney will be disqualified from running for president.How can his advisors be so stupid? Perhaps Romney was set up for failure so General Petraeus could lead the charge to war against Iran.

A war against Iran will be a disaster for us all with the exception of the Oligarchs who own oil shares,arms shares and control us via debt.

It is sad that you once again refuse to see what is plain, simple and obvious, and instead choose to believe anyone with a tawdry conspiracy to peddle, Arjay.

And instructive too, that you didn't even attempt any of the simple questions I put to you.

I think you are beginning to get the message, but are just too stubborn to accept it.

Your choice. But I think it is a poor one.

Pericles you are using the money supply issue in the USA as a distraction.The US Fed under a partial audit was found to create and additional $16 trillion in off balanance sheet transactions for its mates to bail them out. Prior that it created $15 trillion from nothing and added that to the debt of the US people.The Fed is just a counterfeiter of the $ US."Quantitative Easing" is theft by the elites that puts the US people into more debt.

Creating money from nothing is depreciating the $ US and stealing from the people.They then have the audacity ot create it as debt.

We've been through this reality many times before that you choose to ignore and mostly these days I bother not even reading most of your distorted ramblings.

Pity. You might just learn something.

>>We've been through this reality many times before that you choose to ignore and mostly these days I bother not even reading most of your distorted ramblings.<<

But choosing to remain ignorant is your absolute, inalienable right.

Pericles, here is a reference to the derivatives problem.
The source is a site that I have been reading for a few years and find
that they are usually accurate.

http://tinyurl.com/455a39j

There are a large number of other results from google US Derivaties problem
Try it.

Yes, I may have mixed up what happens when, however unless they can
come to a compromise it will be back to 1998 but this time without a
lifebelt.
Also at that time growth was possible, but today ---

Arjay, I think I have asked this before, Has there been a conspiracy theory that you don't believe in?

Webster Tarpley is perhaps best described as off with the fairies. Amongst the other conspiracies he belives are that the destruction of the Twin Towers was a false flag operation, that Pearl Harbor was a US Government conspiracy, that Italian Prime Minister Aldo Moro was killed by the Masons (I kid you not), that global warming is fraud perpetuated by scientists, that the Arab Spring uprisings were orchestrated by the US. Tarpley has been so wrong in his predictions - he predicted Mitt Romney would pick Petraeus as his running mate, that George Bush would launch a coup d’etat in the US, and other piles of rubbish - that it would be better to accept the exact opposite of what Tarpley states will be closer to the truth.

Agronomist try dispelling the scientific facts here.http://www.ae911truth.org/ Tarpley is no fool nor am I.I've met the founders of ae911 truth in 2009.They now have 1700 architects and engineers who say the official story is a farce.It cannot possibly be true.You would have to be a moron with your head up your bum to believe the official rubbish.

Look also here http://patriotsquestion911.com/ Hundreds of leaders such as Vladmir Putin warned the USA that the attack was about to occur.Like Pearl Harbour the US ignored all warnings.Major Albert Stubblebine was head of all army intelligence in the early eighties.He says the official story is a load of rubbish.

Open your eyes then open your mind.