From the other side of the fence.

1% of the globes population own 40% of the globes assets, 10% own 85%. This 10% control global manufacturing, global agriculture,global mining, global transport, stock exchanges, banks, the monetary system and the governments that implement them.

These people do meet in various forums where all are excluded except themselves. They do make decisions that directly impact on most of the world’s population without the direct mandate of those people. Policies that pass unquestioned through our legislative system by both sides.

If I was one of any part of the ten percent, or the two percent that pull the levers, my biggest issue to the ongoing Eden that I, my family, and acquaintances enjoy during our average eighty years of life is the 90% who I have no interaction with or firsthand knowledge of. My pets are more important than the great unwashed.

If you mix with top end corporate or academia you will readily notice that there is a definite “them and us” mentality within the group. We humans look down on each other very easily and the ones who consider themselves furthest removed from the greater part of humanity is that miniscule percentage that controls the lot.

With this degree of control I am looking towards minimizing the strain on my resources given my corium owns 85% of everything. A thought echoed by that wretched Brzezinski who bleated on about the ease of killing a million rather than controlling them in the context of technology and global political control.

There is no moral imperative that the world’s elite must follow except self preservation. So why is it impossible to extrapolate that it is in this group’s primary interest to depopulate the earth. The few see themselves as the custodians and savior of the gene pool and the 90% are just a burden. The thing is that under the system they have built over the past three hundred years their organized greed has ravaged the earth’s resources and environment. They went for profit not sustainability and now they want most of us gone.

Dear Sonofgloin,

You wrote: "If you mix with top end corporate or academia you will readily notice that there is a definite “them and us” mentality within the group."

Have you mixed with them or are you one of them? If not what is the source of your information about their mentality?

Sonofgloin raises a significant issue.
Of course, humans mostly behave in the same way given the same circumstances.
So we can't say that the behaviour of the elites are because they are the elites. No, they're just humans responding to a combination of circumstance, genes and good luck.
There will be those who will say I shoud add hard work to the list, to which I would respond that hard work alone can never get one into the ranks of the elites. One needs the other factors to be there.
So, how do we respond.
The Chicago School of Economics free market ideology has been profoundly discredited. Yet, it is clear that free enterprise is by far the best system for lifting huge numbers of people out of poverty.
So, the best response is the one we have in Australia; a well regulated free enterprise economy. 'Free enterprise' to give us the best economic outcomes, 'regulated' to ensure that our social values are not sacrificed on the altar of free markets.
Not perfect, but, I believe, the best compromise, which provides the most opportunities to the most people.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.a

David, I went to uni and worked in corporate, so its observation sport.

Well that's sure true Anthonyve.

China was a basket case, before they effectively the private enterprise system in their business.

Both China & the Soviet Union, in their full socialists mode were close to starvation. With out the west they would have starved, as often does North Korea. All three examples of what the Greens & far left Labor have in mind for us.

Now Russia is becoming richer than at any time in history, & China is becoming a major food exporter.

Anyone who can look at these examples, & still think green is good, is obviously a nut case.

Dear sonofgloin,

I also went uni and worked for a corporation. Even though I had a management position I never had contact with the 1%. You must have moved in more rarified circles.

Sound comments Anthony, although, may I remark on the” well regulated free enterprise economy” you suggest we enjoy here in Australia.

Let me begin by stating that there were more “Pty Ltd” registered businesses in Australia in the 1970’s than there are today. This means that either the company’s consolidated, went public, or went out of business. I suggest the “out of business option” as the winning answer.

Because of the shift of wealth to the top 10% particularly from the mid 80’s the opportunity to grow a business has almost disappeared. By local example I give you Wesfarmers and Woolworths. Between them they capture the vast majority of retail sales in;
packaged food, seafood, fruit and veg, bakery, florist, clothing, footwear, toys and entertainment, packaged liquor, hardware, telecommunications(mobiles), photography, electrical products and the automotive accessory and tyre market. They also are gaining major market share of fuel.

We in Australia have reacted to these two monopolists by starting a load of coffee shops, and trained our young to look forward to becoming baristas, or at least to serve in a corporate take away.

Sorry Anthony I do not think all is well, or that we have policies that protect us, it is obvious they did not mate.

Sorry David, my initial comment about the intelligencia and corporate was an example of just how slightly elevated a human has to become before they get clannish and insular to those outside the circle. Yeah I’ve seen, hundreds of times, comes from a lengthy career.

God mate if I came close to interacting with the 1% do you think I would ever have heard of OLO? You did not understand the context, no worries.

Hasbeen,
Not sure it's really true that the Greens have in mind for Australia to become like North Korea.
Russia is an interesting case because to me it's a perfect example of what Sonofgloin is talking about. We see the rise of the Russian Oligarchs who are gobsmackingly rich while at the same time rising unemployment and poverty in Russia.
It's off topic a bit, but I'd be interested to know exactly what you mean when you say, 'Green', as in "... still think green is good...". Are you talking about the Greens as a party or are you talking about people who believe that the environment should be protected even if it sometimes means we forgo a bit of profit?
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Sonofgloin,
That's true.
I see a real problem in the unwillingness of successive governments to face the rising monopolies.
In the UK, when Tesco and Carrefours reached 50% market share between them, there was an inquiry.
Here's we have Coles and Woolworths at some 70+% market share and we're told all is well.
One thing that can destroy both a democracy and a well functioning free enterprise based economy is unfettered lobbying.
I have a suspicion that we are facing exactly that in this case
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Dear sonofgloin:

You wrote:

"If you mix with top end corporate or academia you will readily notice that there is a definite “them and us” mentality within the group."

You were claiming knowledge of what one would notice if one mixed with top end corporate or academia. Since you do not claim to have mixed with them where do you get the knowledge of what you would notice?

David, did you not read my reply to you on your last similar enquiry. I said that I obviously did not interact closely with the one percent. But I certainly interacted with the intelligencia and corporate cowboys for a lengthy period of my being. At uni it was governed by which clubs you were a member of. Later I sat at charity events and academic awards, I sat in board rooms and lived my life in first class hotels. It was and is a means to an end and there is an insulating nature at the top of both academia and corporate.

If you aint seen it, climb a bit higher mate, it's there.

Dear sonofgloin,

I asked you again because your reply simply did not explain your claim of knowledge. You made a statement and cannot support it.

David you need not climb to the heights of self importance that I exampled. Have a look at the Milgram experiments. They example how easily we detach from others.

David,
I'm going to jump in here.
One need not interact with the elites in order to evaluate them.
For example, I have never met a member of Al Qaeda, but I'm capable of formulating an opinion about them.
Upon what might I base that opinion,you ask? Well, I answer, on their actions.
Furthermore, I would point to the old axiom, "When actions conflict with words, believe actions."
In applying this line of reasoning to elites, then let's look at their actions.
> The Koch Brothers funding sophisticated disinformation campaigns to prevent action on global warming;
> Gina Rinehart, one of the richest people in the world, being disingenuous in her efforts to prevent a tax which would give Australians a greater share in profits from mineral resources that Australians, via the states, own;
> If we go back a few years, immensely wealthy businessmen hiding the truth about the link between smoking and cancer;
> Immensely wealthy Chinese businessmen refusing to put basic safety features in coal mines leading to thousands of deaths each year, and putting melamine in milk, thus killing babies;
> The German pharmaceutical corporation to this day, hiding information about the link between thalidomide and birth deformities;
> The corrupting of the American political system by corporations through their lobbying efforts;
> an estimated 18 Trillion dollars hidden in offshore schemes with the sole intent of avoiding taxes.
I could go on for pages and pages.
By their actions they shall be judged.
And one does not have to be one of them to evalurate their actions.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Anty the Greens & the greenies are basically interchangeable. Yes I do mean like China, with just one difference,

They see themselves in control & as the elite, not some scruffy worker type boss billionaire. In fact they would eliminate such people by destroying the industry that generates the wealth, & the well being of the masses.

They can't stand seeing us with nice homes, fuel burning cars, boats, airconditioning & other such luxuries. Given a chance they would re-introduce feudalism. Few if any of us would get far from our birth place, & no higher level of education would be wasted on us. Grass huts with earth floors would be our future with these fools.

I do agree about Chinese management, I guess life is cheap there.

I do worry at those who suggest the asianisation of Oz is not a bad thing. I have never seen any kindness or interest in the welfare of the lower levels of the people in any Asian society. Quite the contrary in fact. Exploitation is extreme of both the work force, & the population in general.

Dear Anthonyve,

Of course one can evaluate their actions. I think we all are doing precisely that. However, sonofgloin claimed more than that. He claimed that one would notice an attitude if one mixed with them. That was a claim of personal experience not evaluation at a distance. His statement also implied their attitudes were similar to each other. Like most other groups of people one member of a group may behave differently from another member of the group.

Warren Buffett and Bill Gates, the two richest men in the US, are giving away most of their fortunes. Buffett has questioned the taxation system which allows the rich to pay a samller persentage of their income in taxes thn the middle class because they can afford the experts to help them exploit the loopholes.

Another way in which Gates and Buffett challenge a stereotype is that both are atheists. I think there is a stereotype that religious people are somehow more charitable that non-religious people.

There is a vast imbalance in assets between the 1% and the rest of us. However, I also think there is a tremendous difference in social attitudes between different members of the 1%. Given that difference it is unfair to speak of them as though they all have the same attitudes.

All the rich are not dirty dogs, and all the poor are not noble souls.

I also think the system is very unfair, but I would not stereotype a person because of their economic status. Rich or poor, it's nice to have money.

David,
Fair enough.
And I have to agree with your last point. To quote I've no idea who, "I've been poor and I've been rich. Rich is better." amen to that.

Hasbeen,
Wow, your writing suggests that you really hate people who care about the environment. I really struggle to understand that.
Where do you plan to live once the environment is screwed? You've obviously had experience in China.
I ran a compny in Shanghai some years ago, so I've seen what damage can be done; rivers that look like the water surface in a washing machine, completely covered with stinking, yellow foam.
Hills, that look like a lunar landscape.
If we don't take stay alert and have some green values, that would be Australia.
And, I would add, it would be Australian business people doing it, just as it's Chinese people doing it to China.
Do you not care about the environment?
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Add into the mix Sonofgloin the fact that new technology in robotics will make most of us debt slaves redundant,the elites now have no need for most us to exist.

This is why Maurice Strong and the other parasites want a 90% reduction in the World's population.With new awareness and the rise of China,we are now a threat to their "New World Order."

Yes Arjay, Strong built his wealth and station in life on the back of oil. After he had made billions from the pollution of our earth at any cost he got all environmental. Stupid Al Gore sprouted Strong’s new green global philosophy. I am amazed how the global polluters became the leaders of the green movement.

Strong is a real humanitarian, he was a central player in the “food for oil” sham. He stepped down from that position after it was found he wrote himself a million dollar check for reasons still unexplained. He never gave the money back. Now the greedy bastard is spending his time in China, the dog has found a new master, he follows the money.

There's nothing wrong with a basic them'n'us whinge, of course.

It's highly therapeutic, and does a lot to make up for the fact that life tends to favour others, showering "them" with marble spas and personal jets, while leaving poor "us" to munch on corn chips while watching the Olympics on our HDTVs.

But it needs to be kept close to reality. Conspiracy theories are cancerous - once they take hold on you, they slowly eat you up.

Stuff like this can lead you in that direction:

>>So why is it impossible to extrapolate that it is in this group’s primary interest to depopulate the earth<< (sonofgloin)

>>This is why Maurice Strong and the other parasites want a 90% reduction in the World's population.<< (Arjay. Inevitably)

This demonstrates such a stunning lack of understanding of basic economics, it would shame your average ten-year-old.

What would the "elite" be able to spend their money on, if they cull nine out of ten citizens of the world? Money would cease to have any value at all in such an environment, since the entire world economy would no longer exist. No airlines - no aeroplanes at all, in fact, so the corporate jet and "turning left" disappear. No yachts to sail to Hobart every year, as the stock exchanges would collapse. No agriculture even, so no food chain leading to Fortnums, let alone Coles.

Someone draw these deluded conspiracy folk a picture, quickly.

In crayon, would be best.

Well put, Pericles.

If 'they' succeeded with a 90percent cull, we'd all be back to subsistence farming or some such situation - and there would still be an elite 1 percent living in exalted circumstances.

Somethings are better rich.

Chocolate, coffee, and men! ;-)

The thing is, there has always been a 1% with us.
Throughout history we've called them, the 'Nobility", the 'Court', the 'Temple', the 'High Priests' or, in more recent times, the 'Central Committee' and 'Wall St".
Their existence is an inevitable part of human nature. If the conditions that make the 1% an inevitability weren't there, then we would be something like ants.
And there is, as with most things in nature, a set of forces that act to counterbalance, to keep the pendulum oscillating not too far from some meanpoint, if you will.
At some moments in history, violence has indeed been used to restore the balance, e.g. the French Revolution.
At other times, negotiation with a dose of coercion has helped, e.g. the Magna Carta in 1215.
I'm not suggesting a revolution this time, but I am saying that the circumstances of each society at a given time define the means by which the natural 'balance' is restored.
I think we are approaching such a time.
It will be fascinating to observe the means by which our society reinstates the natural balance.
I have no idea, but this I do know. Natural forces always act to restore balance, no matter how uneasy that balance might be.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Dear Lexi,

Speaking of coffee and chocolate Aldi's sells a chocolate candy bar called Coffee & Cream. To my taste it is delicious. The bar is divided into 36 rectangles, and I try to limit myself to one rectangle a day.

Dear David,

Thank You. I shall definitely buy a few to have
with my coffee.

One of my favourite chocolates used to be plums coated
in a rich dark chocolate that I'd get as a "Mother's
Day" gift. I haven't seen them in shops for a while
though. And of course Almond Rocca always went down well.

I fail to understand why this presumed elite has been so thoroughly incompetent at creating a new world order over the last 40 to 50 years – there didn't used to be hundreds if not thousands of Chinese and Russian billionaires and business oligarchs. What's that all about? Even that Ikea bloke's a recent blow-in, along with all those computer geek impresarios.

Besides, there are all forms of categories and subcategories of elites in the world – musical, sporting, religious, intellectual, artistic, for example.

And the world of models! Including its subsets; head, body, butt and hand. Oh, and super (nearly forgot to include myself for a second).

I even think there's an undisputed Conspiracy Theorist Elite – a self-selected and self-promoting few around the world, powered by dark energy. Who like Internet virtual Black Holes are orbited – out here in the 'realer' world (like OLO) – by lower mass, but still dense, objects caught in the deadly attraction of the end-of-everything Event Horizons before inevitably disappearing up their own singularity.

It only takes imagination to find an elite to which each of us can make a claim – perversely, this may only be in our own minds.

Wm I think you have a slightly wrong handle on some of your elites. Your sporting, music & other such Johny come lately are mostly just a flash in the pan, soon gone back to their peasent roots. Sure a few will hang on for a few generations, & perhaps make it into the really rare atmosphere of the true elites, but so what?

Then you must remember the periodic turnover of true elites. There are always things like the French & Russian revolution, & china's cultural revolution to reset the scene. Hell even William in 1066 made a big change to the pommy elite of the day.

Still, provided they stay in their ivory towers, I don't mind. It is when they get too big for their boots, with things like the climate change scam, that we might have to get nasty.

As long as I can have my 40Ft yacht, I don't mind at all that theirs is 400Ft. You can only sleep in one bed, & eat at one table so I have no need of a mansion, & the times I raced Ferraris they were an awful things.

Wouldn't it be horrible having to dress for dinner most nights. So if they keep out of my hair, they are welcome.

Sonofglion I probably blacken myself in some eyes for saying this.
But you are on the right track.
Money equals power and that brings corruption and lack of direction.
I ask why, why we can not insure the GFC is over, or that it will never happen again.
Why too can we not stop starvation , or wars?
Could it just be the more out of control our world gets the closer we get to excepting one world government?
Think deeply it seems odd that many just think it to be another conspiracy theory.
Yet a monument to the new world order stands that tells us like it or not we are to be ruled that way and population to drop by 80%!

Hasbeen wrote: Then you must remember the periodic turnover of true elites. There are always things like the French & Russian revolution, & china's cultural revolution to reset the scene.

Dear Hasbeen,

I think that if you examine matters more closely you will find that the seeds for the new elite are usually present in the old elite.

Lenin came from a wealthy Russian family in Simbirsk. George Washington was the richest man in the American colonies. Mao was a classmate of Chiang Kai-Shek, head of the government before the communist takeover. Maximilien de Robespierre was born in Arras, France. His family has been traced back to the 12th century in Picardy; some of his direct ancestors in the male line were notaries in the village of Carvin near Arras from the beginning of the 17th century. He presided over the Reign of Terror in the French Revolution. Castro was the illegitimate son of a wealthy farmer who acknowledged his paternity.

In general revolutionary leaders do not come from nowhere. They come from part of the power structure of the previous regime. Those who are nowhere generally remain nowhere.

Pericles I do believe an agenda of resources vs population is discussed regularly and options towards that are canvassed in exactly the same manner a local council plans for future eventualities and infrastructure. If you know of the Club of Rome then you would be aware that these plans are being discussed regularly. This group of uber patricians does have an agenda for one world governance and a sustainable global population and they view individual sovereign nations as an obstacle to their sustainability.

Re your comment about ten year olds and crayons, have you ever considered being a wage earning critic, your quips are so witty they would put the extraordinarily concise barbs of Noel Coward to shame.

Poirot, re the sustainable farming comment. I wish it was so. Do you know what Monsanto are doing with crop seeds? Most of the fruit and vegetables that comes from the corporate ag segment are sterile, the seeds won’t grow. They have us by the throat.

I can not find the link, but this week in an Australian news paper.
Research done in America by a 12 year old, and true, gave evidence that 43 of the 44 American presidents are cousins! relating back to King John of England.
And too, while loose with its truths, the anti new world order groups can show links back hundreds of years to the true elitist in the Buildernberg group, worth goggling.

sonofgloin,

Yes, I'm very aware of Monsanto's sterile seed profit making - they've had a ball in India particularly, putting paid to the ancient tradition of seed saving and sharing....along with fertilizers and pesticides etc. Did you know a Western company tried to patent Basmati rice which was developed by the Indians yonks ago?

But that's all to to with Western corporations and hegemony, it's helped feed millions of Indians and made huge profits for the companies involved. Unfortunately, the whole set up is unsustainable and has led to massive land degradation and water depletion.

Don't be silly, Belly, I am sure your views are respected by all.

>>Sonofglion I probably blacken myself in some eyes for saying this.<<

But I suspect you may be drawing a wrong conclusion here:

>>Could it just be the more out of control our world gets the closer we get to excepting one world government?<<

As I look around at the "out of control" parts of the world, it appears to me that countries are splitting apart, rather than coming together. Think of the Middle East, where there often seems to be more religious factions and separatist enclaves than there are people. Think of the Balkans, which was glued together for a while with some political bullying, then fell apart with violence. Think even of Scotland, which after three hundred years as part of the UK, is toying with independence.

I would go so far as to suggest that we are well into a phase where "national identity" has become more, rather than less important, which is hardly the climate in which a potential world government could flourish. And if you needed a further example, you need look no further than the European experiment. It is turning out to be a convincing argument against the likelihood of nations ceding sovereignty to a central body, even a friendly one.

On balance, I think we are safe for another century or so.

Pericles>> On balance, I think we are safe for another century or so<<
Pericles>> As I look around at the "out of control" parts of the world, it appears to me that countries are splitting apart, rather than coming together.
I would go so far as to suggest that we are well into a phase where "national identity" has become more, rather than less important,<<

If this is meant to qualify that world governance is impossible due to tribalism, I can’t see it. Pericles I note that you use homogenous nations as examples, the Arabs, the Slavic. Have a peek at how multi racial Europe, North America, Britain, Australia and New Zealand have become in the past thirty years.

America was always a repository for all the nations of Europe but the homogenous nature of the founding European Caucasian has been altered by the Hispanic influx. In Europe the homogenous Caucasian culture has been markedly altered by the Middle Eastern influx. There are now at least two social agendas in all the countries of Europe. Do the new French, new Germans, new Dutch, new British, etc, adopt their new country and its social norms, no. New citizens’ enclave due to religious and cultural differences. The nation is no longer a homogenous CULTURE, nothing to do with ethnicity. The difference is the way we think and our vastly different cultures.

This injected divisive element brings emotion to the existing residents that spawn criminal acts such as 70 innocent kids blown away in Norway. It sees anti cover up laws instituted in France…..It sees the likes of the BNP gaining memberships in Britain. I might add that I am not blaming the immigrants; they are just the tool for the globalist agenda of the UN and their bankster puppeteers.

Pericles It is a tool to divide and conquer. If you do not see it, so be it

The splitting apart that we're seeing is in most cases to do with national identity exclusively. Scotland is a perfect example. Of course, the Balkans was not.
I think that the EU represents an interesting experiment that is much like the Curate's egg - well done in parts.
Baron Von Heineken, yes, part of the beer dynasty, but an anthropologist, back in the mid 20th C, identified 1100 different ethnic and cultural groupings in Europe.
This hasn't prevented Europe from finding common ground and creating a partnership that is highly effective for the most part. Please note, I'm talking of the EU not the Eurozone which, for other reasons is a bit of a disaster.
My point is that we will see more of this; countries being independent along cultural lines, but forming economic and defense zones, i.e. cooperating and giving up a little autonomy where it is sensible to do so, but maintaining a unique ethnic or cultural identity to satisfy the very human drive to be part of an identifiable group.
I think this trend is all but unstoppable,and will, for the most part, make the world a better and safer place.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

I think cultural and ethnic identity are very real and probably the reason why there could never be one world government.

I remember when my daughter was a child, she befriended another girl newly arrived from the disintegrated Yugoslavia. Whenever we mentioned the girl's original country, she was always first to maintain that she was "Croatian". It was very clear to us that the child identified as Croatian and nothing but Croatian.

Regarding the EU and Eurozone, it seems that monetary union really isn't enough to unite these countries. Without some kind of overarching control, individual countries have been free to spend and borrow at will. It's been more of a union of economic convenience than anything of deep and enduring significance.

Exactly, Poirot, that's why I emphasized that I was talking about the EU and not the Eurozone.
What the EU has shown, is that cultures and countries can form close ties and agree on things like product and safety standards, road rules, easy movement of people, standards of human rights, etc, yet still maintain their cultural identity.
Eventhe most ardent EU supporter in, say, Denmark or France, would never desribe themselves as Europeans. They'd be a Dane or French.
This is the model we should promote; close cooperation with no loss of identity.
Australia and New Zealand could easily do this with major benefits.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Sonofgloin,people like Pericles and WmTrevor are agents of dis-information.They know the reality as evidenced by their acknowledgement of Bilderberg Group,Club of Rome,Council of Foreign Relations etc.

In 1913 the US Federal Reserve (a private cartel of banks) took control of all the money creation in the USA.This meant that they owned all the increases in production + inflation which they loaned back to the US people as debt.It was a counterfeiting operation that had the double whammy of stealing the people's wealth via money creation and giving it back as debt.In 1914 the income tax act came into play to pay for all this debt.

The same thing happened here in Aust.With the instigation of the Commonwealth Bank in 1911,it created some of the money to equal our increases in productivity.That scumbag Billy Hughes scuttled the power of the Commonwealth to create any money for the people.Billy Hughes changed parties like his underware and was a big suck up to the Royal Imperialists.In 1915 the income tax act was instigated to pay for war reparations and interest to international banksters.

This bunch of criminal thieves and war mongerers are about to meet their nemisis.People all around the planet are becoming aware.We are the real producers of wealth and creativity.The financial criminals are nothing more than worthless parasites.

Dear Arjay,

There is one problem. Wm Trevor and Pericles, those agents of disinformation seem more reaonable than you do.

davidf,try entering into a debate about this criminal finance system,then you will have credibility.

Arjay,

Regarding this nemesis.

Can you tell us what form it will take?

As far as I can see, those who are taking part in The Occupy Movement don't seem to know what to do with their movement - as if they're waiting for someone to tell them what to do (twelve years of schooling will do that to you : )

When's the action going to start?

Dear Arjay,

I have all the credibility I need. I don't expect to convince you of anything. You have decided that Pericles and Wm Trevor ar agents of disinformation. That's enough for me.

Davidf,we now see in the media that $35 trillion has been stashed away by the elites in off shore tax havens.This is 50% of the World's GDP.Ordinary citizens have be made criminals by our tax system,yet the elite criminals create wars with impunity ,control our Govts and pay no tax.

You are incapable of debate on these issues.

Arjay,
look, I'll talk slow and use little words.
You assert that in 1913 the US federal Reserve was formed and then effectively stole from the American people.
Then how come that, except for the period of the Great Depression and WW2, the American middle classes steadily increased their wealth, both in absolute terms and as a percentage of US GDP, through until the 1980s.
What happened then? Well, successive presidents, advised by economists largely trained by the Chicago School of Economics, essentially rabid Friedmanites, drove a process of deregulation. They were trying to make work in the USA what had failed dismally in Chile and Argentina in earlier decades, but it's hard to get an ideologue to change his mind, and Friedmanites are ideologues of the worst kind.
What affect did this have? It reduced the Federal Reserve's ability to control the flow of money in the US economy, (basically what banks could and couldn't do with depositors' money), and it lifted restrictions on the behavior of banks, especially Investment banks.
From that point on, Middle Class wealth began to fall, culminating inthe GFC in 2008.
This process was exacerbated by Bush's tax cuts, also the product of his Chicago School advisers.
So, your assigning blame to the Federal Reserve is exactly back to front. Ordinary Americans did best when the Fed had maximum control, and have done worst when that control has been reduced; more or less eliminated by now.
Once again, sorry to spoil an exciting theory with facts, but sooner or later, they do have a habit of catching up.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

In the hopes that those chocolates would contribute to my chances of becoming an alert-minded, credible, still lustful 86-year-old, david f, I made a special shopping trip this afternoon. Counting rectangles seemed too much effort, so I decided to just to eat them one row at a time – yummy. I now meet two thirds of Lexi's criteria.

On to less important business… Arjay, that which you classify as 'dis-information' we call facts.

Now I need to make it clear that when I say 'we' I am not necessarily speaking for special liaison officer Pericles as our next scheduled inter-agency debrief is not until tomorrow afternoon at which time we will finalise our cover story.

The one I am working on is that you are in fact a CIA/ASIS agent spreading publicly contestable conspiracy theories in order to divert everyone's attention away from the very real, totally secret and as yet undetected policies of the world's elites.

For example: "…we now see in the media that $35 trillion has been stashed away…" Can you not see that by your own claims this cannot be true – because it was in the media!

Denying it will only make you seem more guilty.

Anthonyve.The US Fed is not contained by that name.The Rothchilds,JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs have financial interests in all the major investment banks,oil companies,drug companies and arms dealers/manufacturers on the planet.Those who own our productivity and express it as debt own 90% of the Western world's assets.

People like Bill Gates are just show ponies,or a distraction from the real power brokers who have wealth in the $ trillions.They can buy entire countries.Bankers now control Greece and Italy.People like George Soros use counterfeiting derivatives to steal wealth from small countries.The worthless derivative market is 20 times the world GDP of $ 60 trillion.They can collapse our entire economy and bring in a new dark age.

They control our govts and tell them when to go to war.They want to invade Syria and next steal Iran's oil and take over their banks.

Have you not heard of "The New World Order."?

Yes as Anthony says the reserve bank was formed in 1913, then stolen.
How many know who stole it? why? who owns it.
I recommend EVERY ONE find out.
Now once in to American conspiracy sites, be prepared to look twice, both right and left lie!
But truth lives there too, very important truth.
Real conspiracy is hidden by exposure to the fantasy ones.
But is it not possible both come from those who conspire? to miss lead us all.
How is money made, not printed how does it get its value?
Have you ever seen or thought you saw a conspiracy?
What do you think of these? any chance?
That Roosevelt let Pearl Harbor take place so he could get Americans to agree to war?
That the dismissal in 1975 was crafted to[ never happened] get Labor re elected from an impossible place.
ANY chance a conspiracy exists involving global warming for or against it?
Then why not world control, a promise of better in time of crisis?
Tell north Korea 60 years in to dumbing down, it would not work.

Our Commonwealth bank was created in 1911.For the first 11 yrs of its life it created money from nothing to cover some of our growth.Billy Hughes scuttled the power of the Commonwealth Bank in 1922.

Billy Hughes was another war mongerer who was pushing for the subjugation of Japan back then.The USA forced Japan into war by trade sanctions and trying to cut off their energy supplies.The USA let Pearl harbour happen because their people did not want to go to war.

All wars are created for power and profit.

Arjay,
Of course I've heard of "The New World Order".
It's a crazy myth made up by a bunch of frustrated wannabes who should have kept taking their pills.
There's no new world order.
There's just humans being human.
Those who are very successful will demonstrate human greed, for the most part, and make up myths about how the poor are not worthy.
Those who are unsuccessful will demonstrate human envy, for the most part, and make up myths about how the wealthy are ganging up on them, (like the new world order myth).
The rest of us in the middle will get by the best way we can, laughing, or crying, for the most part, at the myths made up by the other two groups.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Vast, powerful secretive forces manipulate us. Demons, the devil, Bilderberg, the Trilateral Commission, the Jews etc. Those who see cannot get through to those who are unwilling to see the evil.

One name for this is paranoia. it can do great harm. It is a stimulus and justification for eliminating the source of the evil who in reality are merely human beings. At the least it operates to cloud the mind. It is a powerful narcotic removing its subjects from the world of reality.

Very true, David.
It also relieves its subjects from accepting responsibility for their own predicaments.
It's not their faul their lives are crap; it's all the fault of some vast conspiracy or other.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Dear Antony,

I assume Observation Point is your creation. You can go to http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/author.asp?id=4977 to find some of my blitherings.

Anthonyve"The New World Order" was first mentioned by George Bush Senior back in 1990.It was this criminal that also signed off on Agenda 21 AND THE PROJECT FOR A NEW AMERICAN CENTURY.It was and is all about fascism under the cover of socialism/communism.

Agenda 21 is about a one world Govt and Currency owned and controlled by the likes of Rothschilds,JP Morgan,Goldman Sachs etc.They were very close to achieving it,until Russia and China recently made a stand against this Global Governance.Their "New World Order" is still an ideal and they are seriously considering using new strategic mini nukes to fight WW3.The psychopathic war mongerers are on our side.Their wet dream has been Global domination for centuries and will sacrifice most of our humanity to achieve it.

Just a thought, Arjay.

What is the connection, in your mind, between the "$35 trillion [that] has been stashed away by the elites in off shore tax havens" and the New World Order?

To help you along, I refer you not to the multiplicity of conspiracy sites that have jumped on the numbers, but to the source document from which they have been derived.

http://www.taxjustice.net/cms/front_content.php?idcatart=2&lang=1

(Incidentally, where did you get your "$35 trillion" from? I can't find any corroboration of that figure. Anywhere.)

Leaving aside the standard Arjay exaggeration factor, there is still nothing to indicate that this is the war-chest of the "New World Order", and absolutely everything to suggest the opposite. It appears to be money in circulation, the only significant factor being that it is being being channelled through tax havens. Immoral, maybe. But legal. And above all, completely visible to the naked eye. The data was gathered from public sources, after all.

You don't have a particularly strong grasp of basic economics Arjay, we all know that very well. But surely, any conspiracy theory needs at least a hint of supporting evidence. All you have here is a bunch of offshore bank accounts.

So please, enlighten me. What is the connect-the-dots here, tax havens and the NWO?

David,
Observation Point is my work. I try to use humour and satire to - more or less - get it out of my system.
Thanks so much for sending the link to your essays.
I spent a pleasant and thought provoking time late this afternoon and this evening reading some of them
I particularly enjoyed God is a Human Invention; matches my thinking closely, but I doubt that I could have laid it out as eloquently as you did.
Cheers,
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

One thing you might like to consider, Arjay, is that if a new world order came into being, then some of these wealthy folks are going to have to run it.
Damn, but that would be hard yakka.
Why would they take that job on? it would be utterly thankless, and to no benefit, (to them), as the 1% already have more money than they can spend and probably more power than they can use.
All without the responsibility of having to run the world.
Sorry, but I just can't see an upside for them in a NWO.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

But it must be true, Anthonyve... Because it can't just be coincidence that backwards the initials of the New World Order spell - OWN!

Spooky, eh?

Anthony have your fun but put me in the not so sure basket.
I have zero doubt you and others are far better educated than me, so honestly no barbs,I ask.
Is it true the federal reserve is privately owned.
That it has links to the once privately owned bank of England.
Is it also true, banks in America, can lend, NINE TIMES THE CASH they hold in the bank.
Lending the money that does not exist! out on loan.
And charge interest, who gets the interest?
ANY TRUTH, that 300 years ago a single family took control of banking in England Europe And then America?

Anthony>>One of my favourite pastimes is to imagine which cartoon characters various politicians most remind me of.<<

Belly the above statement is the first line of Anthony’s current blog on Observationpoint. Whether Anthony is educated or not, his favourite pastimes leaves me wondering how well researched our Anthony is and how sound his prognostications are.

It is obvious he is cartoon literate, but is he nonfiction literate, is Anthony reality literate? He obviously knows a bit about Pepe Le Pew, Penelope Pussycat, Droopy the Dog and the Road Runner but has he researched the pedigree of the banks that make up the US Fed reserve, or our own carbon copy, the Aussie Fed, which is in place to regulate a fiscal policy agenda in line with the direction and decree that comes from the European banksters and the IMF. They are the same entity in reality, but seeing the banksters insists on the non de plume of the IMF I have always defined them separately. But for Anthony’s sake I will couch their relationship in the terms of his favorite pastime.
“The European banksters are like the Flintstones Anthony, they are one and the same, but we call them Fred and Wilma.”

I would suggest that Arjay has an infinitely stronger grasp on reality than Anthony or the effervescent David, simply because the organizations and connections that Arjay bleats on about do exist in reality.

do the numbers.1 in 100=1%
if you got 500 kids at your school/workplace/'club'
you got [by the numbers..5 of the 100[not likly ..but were talking strictly numbers right..ONE IN ONE HUNDRED*..

now the more affect you have..the more likely your in the circles where its not 1 in 100..but 10 of the 100..[and yes many of us 1 in one hun are right here...i could name 3 off the top of my head..[you could easilly name 5..if you only stopped and think..who that 1 in a thousand may be..

and to be honest..i found them brilliant funny and well informed
heck their born leaders..get over it...how many ya think are in say media*...[i can think of 20 just there..

or a union or green meeting..theres a few there
even activism..is run by one of them..or onbe trying to earn the numbers to be that one in 100

the bible reliable tells is there are 144,000
really running things*..so even one in 100 is faulse..

sonofgloin,

The truth remains that we all aspire to the self-assured nonchalance of Bugs Bunny.....

.....but most of us end up like Daffy Duck.

Some truth to that my dear Poirot, quack quack quack.

OUG, without looking it up I thought that the 144K had something to do with the number of people that will actually be housed in God’s house, metaphorically. I thought the 144K were saints and good guys, not those who run the world in the end times as described in the book of revelations.

i think it best we dont presume to believe..THEIR WORDS*
judge by their works*..by their works are they revealed*

i met with one of the 'charmed ones'...a kid in his early teens
and his private mentor[for some reason they like no family ties[but thats asuming..anyhow the kid was wise beyond his years..a true leader in the making..

we should retire anyone over 40!
put em on pensions..let the kids fix things

Ah, sonofgloin, how unkind...
In my defense, let me ask, have ever heard of satire?
It has its origins with the ancient Greeks...
Now, as to your comparison between my reference to cartoon characters and Arjay's new world order.
You say that "...at least the new world order that Arjay bleats about does exist", where as the cartoon characters don't.
Well, let's explore that a little, without getting over existentialist about it.
Actually, the cartoon characters do exist. They are a part of popular culture and I could point to a comic book, (if I had one), or a TV show and say to you, "There is a tangible thing to which one might reasonably refer to as one or the other of the cartoon characters."
Thus, on one level - that of popular culture - I can prove that the cartoon characters exist - as cartoon characters.
Now then, can Arjay, or you for that matter, prove that your new world order exists?
I have a military background so I strongly believe in the old military axiom, - when confronted with the choice between a conspiracy or a screw up, bet on a screw up.
Hence I disbelieve all conspiracy theories until hard evidence is provided.
Anyway, you have to admit, the image of Tony Abbott as Roadrunner does raise a smile...
Anthony
http://www.observationpint.com.au
PS With a username that is a reference to a famous fictional character, are you not on shaky ground here? :)

A couple of posts by Arjay.

From Arjay:

“Billy Hughes was another war mongerer who was pushing for the subjugation of Japan back then.The USA forced Japan into war by trade sanctions and trying to cut off their energy supplies. The USA let Pearl harbour happen because their people did not want to go to war.” (BTW it is warmonger not war mongerer.)

The above sounds as though poor Japan was forced into war. Japan had been on a path of aggression in Asia since 1895 when it provoked the Sino-Japanese war. Japan attacked Port Arthur bottling up the Russian Fleet on Feb 8, 1904 then declared war on Feb 10. It was a sneak attack like Pearl Harbor. In 1907 Korea became a Japanese protectorate. During WW1 Japan allied itself with the Allies and took over German interests in Asia. In 1919 Japan suppressed a rebellion in Korea whose people wanted to get free of Japanese domination.

In 1931 Japan invaded Manchuria. That was the beginning of continual war until the Japanese surrender in 1945.

I have had some military experience serving in the US Army and as military advisor to Senator Woodley. As Anthony maintained it is much more reasonable to expect a screw-up than a conspiracy.

The US cut off oil shipments to Japan because those supplies supported aggression. They could have expected the Japanese reaction but didn’t. Since 1926 the Japanese war college had as an exercise an attack on Pearl Harbor. After the attack the admiral and general in charge of Pearl Harbor, Kimmel and Short, were court martialled. They had been derelict in their duties and had not maintained alert. If it was expected the fleet could have been at sea at the time so the damage would have been less.

More Arjay:

“The psychopathic war mongerers are on our side.Their wet dream has been Global domination for centuries and will sacrifice most of our humanity to achieve it.”

Who are these ‘psychopathic war mongerers’ who have had a dream for centuries?

Japan like Nazi Germany was an aggressor which was finally brought down.

Davidf liked that post, arjay indeed turns a baked meal in to a stew.
And gives Anthoinyve, and just about every one reason to doubt any conspiracy.
However, give me my answers to the questions above.
I re state them, if not conspiracy will naming it crime do?
Rothschild, [red shield], had part ownership of the bank of England [before it was taken over by government], and banks in Holland France Belgium, and still, the American Federal reserve ok so far?
Fed reserve still only 20% owned by government ok?
Banks in the USA can lend nine or is it ten, times the funds they hold ok?
Lending nine times the cash, the cash they do not have, on interest barring loans
What if I did that.
Traded with funds I did not have?
Any chance I deserve an answer?

many people trade with funds they dont got mr bell

much like fractional reserve lending..it leverages..the bet
[as the bet increases..you can top up..but if the bet looses..you must top up your deposited cash reserve..or sell..[stop loss]..

usa makes 50%..of the global war spending
occupies hundreds of countries/states..via thousands of outposts
[military has its own securities agencies..and they do plunder resources in the invaded[depedant dictraiterships..like sad man insane/gadaffi[both of whom had not only huge oil concerns..but GOLD*

and if theres a thing elites love..its gold
heck..they took over the treasury.,.and lets ignore auditing fort knox*

the commies failed by thinking they could keep up to warmongering liars..{but note when THEIR system went bust..THEY ALL GOT FREE $HARES

our capitalist pigs..just got bailout..and money printing..further putting the debts on the under class[get rid of death duties..ignore family trust..taxs havens..[if it wasnt for the drug war cash flow from the worlds ghettos..even legit banking would be bust

we have bar codes on cash..they can follow it from cash point back to deposit at the fed..who destroy it..giving them leverage..that all bankers love..that extra litle bit

greed will kill many
[two thirds will die unless these times are shortend*

cut off city states..that act globally
think local..using their own funds..their own 'treasury'..
plus the real assets..the trust;..the skills talenmts abilities differences..of its people..

govt should be like a loving parent
giving the talented ones oppertuinity to shine

how great a leader to give santuray to such a people
here they get tested..tempted and taught..for thye real game before us all

eternity*

Dear Belly,

It's standard practice for banks to loan more money than they have. The assumption is that all the loans will not be in default, and that depositors will not all withdraw their money simultaneously. If either happens the bank goes bust. I think banks have been operating that way since there have been banks.

During the Depression many banks failed, and depositors lost their money. Under Roosevelt the Federal Deosit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) was enacted. FDIC guarantees deposits up to a certain amount - not sure what it is now since it has been raised several times.

I know nothing about the the history of European banks. I do know it was common practice for years for governments not to collect taxes. They gave private entities the right to collect taxes and required them to pay a certain amount to the government for the privilege. As could be expected they squeezed the people. It was a great reform for the government to collect taxes directly. The private entities that collected taxes could also operate as banks.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_Bank

The twelve regional Federal Reserve Banks were established as the operating arms of the nation's central banking system. They are organized much like private corporations—possibly leading to some confusion about ownership.

... The United States has an interest in the Federal Reserve Banks as tax-exempt federally-created instrumentalities whose profits belong to the federal government, but this interest is not proprietary.[2]...

Regarding the structural relationship between the twelve Federal Reserve banks and the various commercial (member) banks, political science professor Michael D. Reagan has written that:[4]

... the "ownership" of the Reserve Banks by the commercial banks is symbolic; they do not exercise the proprietary control associated with the concept of ownership nor share, beyond the statutory dividend, in Reserve Bank "profits." ... Bank ownership and election at the base are therefore devoid of substantive significance, despite the superficial appearance of private bank control that the formal arrangement creates.

"However, give me my answers to the questions above."

Sometimes, Belly it can be useful to do a bit of research when you're trying to convince yourself of facts. Fortunately, the Internet makes this task much easier than in the past.

For example, here is where you can start reading the history of Rothschilds according to them and divided into neat 30 year brackets from 1798:

http://www.rothschild.com/our_history/

For spot checking you could compare their version with these statements by The Telegraph's Harry Wilson:

"Established in London in 1811 by Nathan Mayer Rothschild, one of the famous five sons dispatched by their father to Europe’s financial capitals to expand the family's banking business, NM Rothschild made its initial fortune in government bonds.

During the Napoleonic Wars, Rothschild helped the British government sends funds to its allies, while an elaborate network of agents and couriers meant the bank also became responsible for providing money to the Duke of Wellington’s army in Portugal and Spain.

The Rothschild financial power and nouse meant that in 1825 they were able to supply enough coinage to the Bank of England to prevent a financial crisis.

The bank also provided the £15m gilt issue that was needed to pass the Slavery Abolition Act in 1833.

Throughout the rest of the 19th century, NM Rothschild established its pre-eminence, helping Britain buy a controlling stake in the Suez Canal, funding Cecil Rhodes’ British South Africa Company, and buying up large holdings in future giants such as mining company Rio Tinto and diamond miner De Beers.

In the 20th century, the bank became increasingly focused on advising others rather than investing on its own account, helping raise the financing for the London Underground.

In the 1980s, Rothschild became the house bank to the Conservative government as it began the massive privatisation of previously state-owned companies.

Today, the bank is tiny in comparison to US rivals, such as Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley, however it is still an adviser of choice for many companies and governments."

For a more complete understanding regarding Europe, you'll need something like the Handbook on the History of European Banks by Manfred Pohl. It has individual entries on 150 of the largest and oldest European banks but is around $500 in hard copy and $45.80 as an e-book.

For the US Federal Reserve Bank start here:

http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/frseries/frseri3.htm

And for their purposes and functions:

http://www.federalreserve.gov/pf/pf.htm

No, you can't 'trade' with funds you do not have… But that is different to owning rather than owing some or all of the funds with which you trade.

Dear Belly,

In the US and in other countries there is a bewildering array of financial entities. The prime rate is set by the Federal Reserve and is the rate at which the Fed lends money to the Commercial banks. The commercial banks lend money to each other, finance companies, mortgage companies, ordinary banks, large corporations at higher rates than the rate they borrowed from the Fed. All these entities try to lower their risk by ensuring those loans. I know of an insurance company on the Cayman Islands which ensures loans that the commercial banks make. There are many other entities which insure the lenders against default. Generally the higher degree of risk on the loan the greater the rate of interest demanded.

The loans finance companies and other lending entities make are financed by money they borrowed.

Apparently many banks in the US made very risky mortgage loans which were almost certain to go into default. Securities based on those loans were sold as though they were based on something of solid value. These were the derivatives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_(finance) tells you about derivatives. They are a legitimate financial instrument, but they were misused in the case of the mortgage loans.

When enough of the loans default the effect goes right up the chain of financial entities. Depressions don't happen all at once. The crash of 1929 in the US, some think, really started several years before with problems in the agricultural sector. Before the Great Depression, the American banking system was characterised by having many small to medium sized firms. America had over 30,000 banks. The effect of this was that they were prone to going bankrupt if there was a run on deposits. In particular, many banks in rural areas went bankrupt due to the agricultural recession. This had a negative impact on the rest of the financial industry.Between 1923 and 1930 5,000 banks collapsed. Finally the effects hit Wall Street.

Anthony, the "unkind" remark made me smile, I thought about Kamahl and his line "why are people so unkind".

Not unkind mate, but certainly incredulous, as you are to anyone suggesting that there is an agenda for one world government and centralized control. Given I started this thread with the premise, “why not conspire” no one has told me why it is in the interests of the few that control the monetary system and global trade not to conspire.

I can certainly see barriers such as China and India but in the first world they just about control every aspect of our lives from office suites in Europe.

and yeah Abbott is roadrunnery.

Wmtrevor smells like troll.The US Federal Reserve is a private group of banks who own our increases in productivity by creating from nothing all the money to equal it.Money has no intrinsic worth unless it has productive people to back it.

Not only do these banksters own our productivity,they create all the money from nothing for inflation.Inflation is the depreciation of our buying power by the creation of money in excess of our productivity.This too is created by the private banking system as debt.It like stealing from your neighbour and loaning this stolen money back to him with interest.

If he smells like a troll,knows all the trendy words of the Illuminatti,Council on Foreign Relations,Bilderberg Group etc,pretends that all conspiracies are delusional,then more likely is a troll.

Oh, sonofgloin, the ignominy of it! Anybody but Kamahl.
Actually, you may have a point.
There really is no reason why they wouldn't conspire, I guess.
But if they are, I sure wish they could make better fist of it and get few things done.
If somebody is at the helm, then all I can say is that he - or she - is making a pig's breakfast of it.
Couldn't they hire a consultant or something?
As long as it isn't Kamahl...
And with that, I bid you all goodnight.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

WM Trevor that I am afraid, your advice I research is a flogging with a feather duster.
Here are some truths.
Government bonds are of no worth until purchased, a promise to pay face value and interest on paper.
The fact they are re paid is the value.
Now Rothschild took that name from the first family's shop name.
A gold dealers, he too started interest payments!
Using gold he did not own, but stored in safety at a cost, for others,he lent the value of that gold out at interest.
After a time the real owners insisted on interest too.
The quoted family expansion was the foundation of National and hence the Federal reserve, in those country's the family INFESTED.
The Fed reserve prints non exist cash, all but 20% privately owned!
How tell me please, can we ignore the BASICS of CAPITALISM so willingly?
A bank, any bank, can lend nine times the funds it holds!
IF it was a government bank? ok by me, but it is private property.
Look the subject up, great men including 4 AMERICAN PRESIDENTS have warned us about it.

it all hinges on conspire...[like 12 bankers conspiriring to steal our wages..via libor manipulation[{basicly hold intrest ARTIFICIALLY CONSPIRED..ARTI-FICALLY>>low

so we go the other risky prod-ducts..they know will go much like facebook..[ie fall to half its lol app-raised/value

as belly has said...govt bonds are useles..till THE FED BUYS THEM
and if the fed wants to 'buy'..more..it simply does 'money-tory quantative 'easing'..[ie print more fiat dollars..or create credit..at whim..

fiat = dolar by decree
fiat means by decree*[cause govt says its as good as gold[legal tender for debt..[you can only get it...lol..from a member banker franchise holder*

but you cant 'decree gold'..it has a market value[nor silver
so they stole the gold from our coin..put it in fort knox..then the 12 bankers..LEASED..the gold silver and sold it*

sold for cash a lease![UNDER promise to return
PAY THE RENT AT LEAST*

leased..for 44 dolars 44 cents per oz
and sold it..at the then easy proffit market price

thing is govts/issue bonds..t
heir central bank monetises it
and the 12 bankers control the intrest rate...libor rate..NOT PAYING THE LITTLE GUYS ANYTHING..and only fixed terms for the rich..[for now..

so they/you..addapt more risk

KNOWING they will default...by ignorant c
onned into in/vesting..vesting their value to thieves..who dont get jail[like a commoner protester gets 6 mths jail for stealing two bottles of water...

but steal trillions..your lol BAILed out

well the bails are off*

your out..pleasse return the proceeds of crime
[if not specificly..then generally via the trusts you hold..

paying a form of trust based death/duties..or a trust transaction tax...

the rich tax avoidance
plus thrusting the debt burden on the poor
thats the real crime..

then we get ursury on top..lol
commin sukkers..we got commision for every bailout/sale even liquidation..sukkers*

I do not agree with every thing OUG has posted.
But remember my often said thing, conspiracy's , OFTEN exist to cover the real truth.
If you look, at reliable links, you will soon find these truths.
4 leaders of the USA warned about the folk behind the FED RESERVE.
They hold the right to print money, lend it, reserve interest, all from what? nothing!
This is not government it is international money lenders.
BANKS private enterprise banks, can lend nine times more money than they hold/own.
GFC? what if the private owners of the world cash re call it.
Are we all aware more cash many times more, than all the gold on earth is in circulation?
Laugh at OUG contribution, but only after you are sure you understand the truth.\goggle history of the fed reserve bank.
Then history of bank of England.
Follow with history of international banking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tally_stick
While all of this link is of interest, scrolling down and reading split tally stick in England is telling.
After reading and understanding it we can see the very basis of todays concerns.
That a stick was issued by a King as money, and made acceptable as payment of tax, a telling reason for its acceptance, is stunning.
Do we all understand,in all but one religion bared lending for interest?
And wait before exploding! that stopped inflation and deflation dead.
We are in complex ground.
But one group for 300 years, have prospered by controlling fed/national banks.
We will be promised a return to gold standard or one international currency.
Both are threats not promises, both enrich those folk and we pay for it.

Any person with any street smarts would surely have millions or billions of dollars tied up in lucrative property around the world, given that property is tangible and can’t disappear on wall street overnight.
I once read that the owner of Mc Donalds said that his main wealth was in the land the Mc Donalds Restuarants stood on, which was worth billions more than the business also made in selling food.

Don’t the Saudi Sheiks who own million dollar race horses etc., own a couple of banks in America, also. There surely must be some extremely wealthy Chinese business men. A lot of whom buy up extensive parcels of Australian rural properties that come on the market.

Just looking at alternatives to the Banking ideas put forward, although I am sure the wealthy
Have some huge eggs in those baskets too.

CHERFUL it would interest you if you looked at some of my searches.
While conspiracy's are a blackened thing in most minds, just see comments here are stopping.
It is worth while, we all know or should, that the whole subject is tainted by lies.
BUT if you look you will find evidence that may challenge your views about property.
A story exists,it tells of one of the very roots of the owners of many world banks, who miss reported Napoleon had won at Waterloo.
As the panic began, his agents bought up the stocks,at reduced prices.
And in the great depression, research it, those who bought it about,bought at cents in the dollar, land business shares every thing.
I think the Internet has the ability to save humanity and even free those who live under dictators.
IF it remains free, and if we can use it to find out if what we each think is true.
Sadly based on nothing but our own opinions some will not look over the next hill.

Dear Belly,

There are continual attempts in the US Congress to pass legislation to control the internet so that it is a mere creature of the corporate interests. http://perezhilton.com/2011-11-16-congress-wants-to-censor-the-internet is one link to the story. There are many others.

Davidf very true and understood, just maybe the open nature of the web will stall those efforts.
As my education was not formal, mostly self taught I have developed my own learning.
Even if I disagree with a thought or statement I research it, from both sides.
It has often helped me learn, even change my views.
I think if we lost this medium we would, all of humanity, be the worse for it.

I will start out by saying that throughout this thread I've been rather dismissive of the idea of a conspiracy, but this article in Alan Kohler's Business Spectator this morning has certainly given me cause to reconsider.
As many of you may know, Alan is a highly respected Australian financial journalist and publishes a first rate financial advisory letter, so he's certainly not someone you could call a raving Lefty - quite the opposite in fact.
In any even, I do think that what he has to say is extremely relevant to this thread.
And somewhat sobering.
Here it is:
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/hayman-oligarchies-elites-pd20120813-X4SQN?opendocument&src=idp&utm_source=exact&utm_medium=email&utm_content=89496&utm_campaign=kgb&modapt=commentary

Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Dear Anthonyve,

The article does not prove a conspiracy. It just notes a fact. Except for very small assemblies oligarchies always dominate and rule. In capitalist societies it is those who control the money. In monarchies it is the court and those who support the court. In theocracies it is the religious hierarchies. In ideological states it is those who dominate the party. In militaristic states it is the general staff. Democracy where every citizen has an equal voice does not and cannot exist.

No single person can rule alone, and democracy is never a reality. Whatever the nominal system is called the reality is that we are either part of the ruled or part of the oligarchy who rule.

Yes, David, you're quite right, the article doesn't prove - or even suggest, really - a conspiracy, but, at least, for me, it did make the notion somewhat easier to digest.
Because, as sonofgloin posited in an earleir post, why not? Why wouldn't thy conspire?
To which, I am now thinking, my response would be, why not indeed?
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Dear Anthony,archies

Why not conspire? Conspiracies are people acting in common to serve a comon goal. Within the hierarchies there are various competing tendencies backing certain individuals, certain modes of operation etc. Members of hierarchies generally seek to further their own interest and only secondarily the interests of the hierarchy.

Conspiracies assume people are acting in concert. That's not the way the world works. The ruled act in concert because those who don't are made to suffer.

The hierarchy is a different kettle of fish. There was a toast in the British officers mess, "Here's to a long and bloody war." Long and bloody wars serve neither the interests of the army nor of the empire. However, long and bloody wars give occasion for daring deeds and high rank for the survivors.

David,
Yesterday I would have agreed with you, and today I still cannot disagree with you.
However, I have moved somewhat from my - previous and relative - certainty.
That's all I'm saying.
I was the one who in an earlier comment on this thread, adhered to the view from my own military days, that when confronted with the choice between a conspiracy and a screw up, bet on a screw up.
All I'm saying now is that I can make room for the possibility that I might lose the bet.
Anhtony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Dear Anthony,

Wait a while. I may disagree with myself.

Anthony I am not trying to wet your pocket.
Not in me to do so.
I actually am pleased to see you re look at the issue.
Because I have come to respect your intellect greatly.
I note a personal view, communism and Socialism is no different in letting individuals prosper unfairly.
Thoughts, is North Korea a conspiracy?
Was Stalinist Russia blinded by untruths/therefore a conspiracy?
Have any political party ever said one thing while thinking the opposite for its own reasons? is that in part conspiracy.
Have any of us thought about why private banking can use and profit by it, funds they do not have?

Belly,
--- Have any political party ever said one thing while thinking the opposite for its own reasons? ---
A fair question.
I would have to say, yeah, that every political party is doing that all the time.
As for the banks, I was disgusted to see that US prosectutors have dropped the case against Morgan Stanley, claiming there's insufficient evidence to have a reasonable chance of a conviction.
Unbelievable. These guys made thousands of positions betting against products that they'd promoted in writing to clients.
It's impossible that there isn't enough evidence.
So, i do believe that this is a cover up.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.a

Hi Belly,
I have just read through some of the links you posted,
as you say it provides some interesting insights into the world of banks and governments. There are certainly some gray areas that could lead to some desperate shady manouvers in the world of the banking boardrooms with pressure or non pressure from governments. This below is one interesting part that I copied and pasted. It is an article on deflation and how it is sometimes very hard to fix even with the lowering of interest rates.
It made me think that we seem to be going through some slight deflation in Australia at the moment. Which explains why there is such pressure on the banks to lower an already low interest rate(or cash rate) 3.5% even further.
What the banks are saying, is that if they don't pay their depositors enough on their savings and investment accounts then these people may pull their money out of the banks and put it elsewhere like land or property for instance, leaving the banks with not enough capital to lend.
Below is the extract I copied:-

Insolvent banks: Banks with a larger percentage of their loans which are "non-performing", that is to say, they are not receiving payments on them, but have not yet written them off, cannot lend more money; they must increase their cash reserves to cover the bad loans.

Fear of insolvent banks: Japanese people are afraid that banks will collapse so they prefer to buy (United States or Japanese) Treasury bonds instead of saving their money in a bank account. This likewise means the money is not available for lending and therefore economic growth. This means that the savings rate depresses consumption, but does not appear in the economy in an efficient form to spur new investment. People also save by owning real estate, further slowing growth, since it inflates land prices.>

This also relates to what I said about wealthy people buying prime real estate instead of investing in banks showing how this can further add to deflation. Well worth reading thanks for the links.

Anthony thanks for an informative link from Kohler. Bloody sad, bloody frightening.

That some of my fellow OLO’ers are beginning to at least consider that if you were born into the miniscule clique of families that for all intents and purposes control the globe, a formal OWG is the next step to ensuring your dynasty’s survival and station. That the left and the right political parties of all nations are subservient to the banksters makes whatever domestic policy they bleat on about inconsequential.

Just one thing left to say. Imperium popili, per percuniam, in pecunia, non peribit a terra.
Government by the people, for the money, by the money, shall not perish from earth.
There is a lot to be said for 50 individual dictators ruling the globe than one.

Belly this is a goody.

http://seeker401.wordpress.com/2010/11/24/rothschild-bank-goldman-sachs-are-both-on-the-list-of-bondholders-getting-u-s-taxpayer-billions-in-irish-bailout/

I got some thing out of those three posts thanks.
Let me say I am not new to understanding we have a problem.
Have had an interest for 3 decades.
But not unlike the vast majority am,still,unsure why the lies and just insanity is mixed with things of real concern.
Maybe that is by design.
This is how I think, if National banks,every one of them, are owned by the governments only,that is us, ok.
Why however do the super rich own and control almost every one.
Rothschild/Rockefeller, just two names once spoken,turn on the it is rubbish switch.
But clearly, honestly it is not so,generations of these family's money from selling nothing.
Few,if any, of us do not think we need and will , hopefully, reform the worlds financial system.
Yet are we chickens? being shown the food inside our shed so we will walking?
ENRON, just one, of tens, in the end is it not true the little man/investor pays for them, or our tax does?
Your link SOG is one of thousands, half of them rubbish? just maybe every single one comes from the same place.

In 2007 Kate Thompson was WA mortgage broker of the year. Now she is facing fraud charges.

It is alleged Mortgage Miracles, in Canning Vale in Western Australia, obtained investment loans for customers by using falsely inflated earnings and assets.

Ms Thompson admits that is exactly what she did.

"I would get upfront commission, I would get a trailing commission. I was probably earning about $5 million a year. It was great. It was wonderful. But it was all a lie," she said.

But she was not alone.

"Hook me up to a lie detector test and hook them up. I'll lay my evidence on the table. They will fail a lie detector test miserably. They are corrupt. They are protecting each other," Ms Thompson said.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-08-13/mortgage-broker-blows-whistle-on-big-banks/4195920
.

7-minute video: 1%’s terror/wars/debt contrived to crush 99%’s awakening

By: Carl_Herman
Tags: COVER-UP/DECEPTIONS/PROPAGANDA
CURRENT EVENTS
DICTATORSHIP
ECONOMY


*hyperlinks, video live at source*
Banks falsify credit card lawsuits in 90 percent of cases?

By: From the Trenches
http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/banks-falsify-credit-card-lawsuits-in-90-percent-of-cases/19387/


US credit card companies have been churning out lawsuits and improperly collecting debt from consumers 90 percent of the time, at least according to a New York judge who deals with these cases.

Lawsuits produced by credit car companies to recoup unpaid bills often rely on inaccurate documents, incomplete records and generic testimonies from witnesses who repeatedly testify, the New York Times reported.

The companies often sue clients for more money than is owed.


The US 1% has a visible agenda
of lie-led unlawful wars and fraud-fed debt.

This agenda is only possible as long as the 99% are kept ignorant and distracted from these facts. That was the 1%’s cartel/corporate media’s job, as this 7-minute video with David Icke demonstrates is dissolving from the lights of activism and independent media.

yeah it just keeps going ....down*

http://whatreallyhappened.com/

BREAKING - Peregrine CEO INDICTED On 31 Charges Of Financial Fraud, Faces 155 Years In Prison, $7.5 Million In Fines

http://dailybail.com/home/update-fannie-and-freddie-turn-profitable-still-owe-taxpayer.html


Not looking good for Wassendorf...

As the 99%’s awakening accelerates, Earth’s endgame is here with 3 basic choices for humanity:
Think, speak, and act for 100% of Earth’s inhabitants’ success with intellectual integrity and moral courage. This seems to require asserting “emperor has no clothes” obvious crimes of the 1% and demanding their arrests to stop the massive crimes.

Denial, dishonesty, and/or apathy in the face of crimes centering in war and money that annually kill millions, harm billions, and loot trillions of our dollars.
http://www.examiner.com/article/7-minute-video-1-s-terror-wars-debt-contrived-to-crush-99-s-awakening

http://dailybail.com/home/independent-trader-talks-about-losing-everything-in-mf-globa.html

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-2187902/Dimons-foul-mouthed-rant-JP-Morgan-boss-attacks-banker-bashers.html

BUT*..heck no worries..they all ready found the cure
http://www.naturalnews.com/036784_artificial_butter_flavor_Alzheimers_popcorn.html

as if madcow wasnt doing its thing..

get ready for facebook share..[lol..loss of further face
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/aug/13/facebook-investors-shares-ban-early-backers

http://dmc.members.sonic.net/sentinel/naij2.html
This link is long but easy to read.
I understand , in the American way,it takes some truth and stretches it.
But it is one link, to 25 even twice that available.
From the left/center /right/ just mad, all end up about the same place.
see JFK tried to stop it,4 other American presidents warned of it.
If just half, is true we need look no further for evidence a conspiracy exists.

Excerpt:..“When we think of cronyism..and the problems of cronyism and crony capitalism,..we think in terms of economic loss and gain,” Schweizer said in a phone interview.

“What we’re showing here..is that cronyism is now permeating our justice system...So,it’s not just*..a question of dollars and cents, it’s a question..of whether you’re going to face*...legal jeopardy or not on ..!..by what you’re doing.”

“The issue of a revolving door —people who go in and out of,..for instance,/the Department of Energy..who go work for energy companies..*then come back to the Department of Energy !..—is always there,”

Schweizer added...“But,*..we’re not used to..associating the top leadership of the *Justice Department..with the revolving door.!*!

""And,..I think that’s what makes this so troubling — because you can’t trust them...*All their financial interests*..are tied up with these large firms..that do an enormous amount of busines with Wall Street.”

In the report,..GAI details
how the George W. Bush and Bill Clinton..administrations both actually took down financial criminals!*!

—*unlike the Obama administration.

Between 2002 and 2008,..for instance,
GAI points out how a Bush administration/task force..“obtained over 1,300 corporate fraud convictions,!*!>>including those of over 130 corporate vice presidents..and over 200 CEOs and corporate presidents.”

“Clinton’s DOJ
prosecuted over 1,800 S&L(savings and loans executives, senior officials,..and directors,..*and over 1,000 of them were sent to jail,”..

But,..despite having*..“promised more of the same,”..especially in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis,..the Obama administration’s DOJ has not brought criminal/charges..against a single major Wall Street executive

http://dailybail.com/home/convicted-bush-1300-clinton-1000-obama-00.html
Financial Fraud Conviction Scorecard:

Bush:1300+,
Clinton:1000+,
Obama:0.0..(+/-)

Meanwhile, not a word of complaint from a single Democrat in Congress, which is especially infuriating given the broad bi-partisan agreement among voters that criminal bankers need to do time.

Too concerned with keeping up appearances and the next election cycle, neither side of the false left-right paradigm of American politics ...is incapable of exposing its own filth when it comes to legitimate scandal, and this DOJ non-prosecution madness involving Goldman Sachs certainly qualifies as sordid.

Unfortunately, since it appears to the mainstream media that this is a partisan issue, and Obama is the anointed one, this story will get zero coverage.

http://www.themoneymasters.com/the-money-masters/famous-quotations-on-banking/
Will any one challenge these men, in their own words not mine they warn us.
But of more importance.
Just how did a group of private bankers get to print, distribute and control a nation like Americas money hence ours?

Banks falsify credit card lawsuits?

http://rt.com/usa/news/credit-companies-debt-clients-594/

US credit card companies have been churning out lawsuits and improperly collecting debt from consumers 90 percent of the time, at least according to a New York judge who deals with these cases.

Lawsuits produced by credit car companies to recoup unpaid bills often rely on inaccurate documents, incomplete records and generic testimonies from witnesses who repeatedly testify, the New York Times reported. The companies often sue clients for more money than is owed.

“I would say that roughly 90 percent of the credit card lawsuits are flawed and can’t prove the person owes the debt,” said Brooklyn civil court judge Noach Dear. The judge told the Times he sees as many as 100 such cases a day.

By “robo-signing” documents, banks “robotically” mass-produce similar papers for different clients, without properly reviewing them.
\
\
In the process some of the papers get falsified.

Lenders often try to collect money from clients who have already paid their bills. Other times, they increase the lenders’ debt by unfairly adding fees and erroneous interest costs.

Some clients claim they don’t owe anything,!
.. but most disagreements come from credit card companies conflicting with clients about how much is rightfully owed.

But in 95 percent of lawsuits, the credit card companies win – even though the lawsuits sometimes include falsified credit card statements produced years after the borrowers fell behind on payments.

A former JPMorgan Chase employee admitted that nearly 23,000 delinquent accounts had incorrect balances.

Taryn Gregory said she was sued by Discover for more than $7,000 in credit card debt, even though she had only accumulated $4,000.

Upon examining the lawsuit, the Times found that the documents said they were produced in 2004, even though the advertisements on the bottom of the page were from 2010.

contiinues

American Express borrower Felicia Tancreto was sued for $16,000. She admitted having fallen behind on payments, but contested owing that much. After attending court, the judge dismissed the lawsuit for lack of evidence.

But in most cases, the borrowers do not attend court, causing the lenders to win 95 percent of the time.

“Our concerns center on the fact that debt collection lawsuits are a pure volume business. The documentation is very bare bones,” said Tom Pahl, assistant director for the Federal Trade Commission’s division of financial practices.

The extent of the “robo-signing” is not known, but the erroneous lawsuits have been a problem for years. In April 2011, JPMorgan Chase & Co. abandoned over 1,000 debt collection lawsuits after their bank documentation was questioned by courts.

But unless lawsuit victims defend themselves in court, suspicious judges suspect the credit card companies will continue to get away with overcharging their clients.

“I do suspect flaws,” said Harry Walsh, a superior court judge in California. “But there is little I can do.”

there vis a difference between knowing and proving
http://whatreallyhappened.com/

We never know if our links are read, in my view my last was the best.
And who understands in truth economics?
Conspire?
We kid to our selves if we ignore this, it is an every day event, in all our lives.
Petrol company's do it to keep from entering price wars!
Bruised battered torn and ignored conspiracy theory's are seen as the play things of the not quite sane!
How better place to hide the truth, in a conspiracy!
If we want to look today is forecast, 4 leaders of America told us, the GFC, the out of control investors who bought America to its knees forecast not by psychic's, but that country's top economists 100 years ago.
So remote from money intended use are we it is possible to buy and sell a country's cash for profit?

yes belly..so remote..from the reality
that our credit/value/worth..is for sale..[to their discredit..

when..'money was coin'..all we had to know
was..*the quality..<of the coin

[thus we put
the kings/queens/dictraiters..*face..<*on.>..the coin

HOW COME..THE ROYALISTS SO SILENT*
DEBASEMENT*..is treason

that her/majesties/head...during her reign..has allowed
the debasement..of the coin metal..from silver..to sterling silver..to cupra nickle..plastic..cyber

how come hrh stands mute?

while the bankers loot and despoil..lol united/nations..*armies.. protecting drug/makers..*cia rendition flights/delivering it..[a world gone mad

HAS ANYONE INFORMED HER MAJESTY?

are not..*ALL the armed forces,
sworn to protect HER HEIRS and succesors
[thus the commonwealth..of the common people..
upon whome's coins TOO ..sits her..loss of face*..

debasement*..of coinage was nessitated..by inflation of fiat
<..fiat is a clever word meaning..lol..[*by decree..lol

she decreed debasement?..*[a fiat* based on paper/plastic
then cupra nickle..in lue of gold/silver and copper coinage?

the true value of coin is 100 times itts present face
govt needs seize back..the metal stolen by the bankers

return to coin VALUED AS IF*..still in silver/gold..according to their current weight and AS if it was in those STOLEN*

its high treason ol mate
alp is in power....return note printing and the mint back to treasury

and treasury monetises the fed..the fed monetise the banks
banking returns to a service[you wouldnt recall it mate..but in my doy the banker came to me..

at school..they collected tons of copper pennies
[the origonal 'penny' was silver

lots of thri/threepence and sixpences..came to school
to go into the bank..AND RECIEVE INTREST ON OUR PENNIES*

what changed
deebasement of our GOVTS coinage..by ww1 war bonds..
after being sold short..the bankers demanded immediate payment..of principle,..in coin[silver/gold..

the govt expected 20 years bonds
to not be repaid for 20 years

BUT the bankers
DEMANDED it in coin..

[notes at the time..HAD WRITTEN ON THEM..pay the bearor..in sterling silver..@..any commonwealth bank

but govt didnt collect the tax yet..!
so bankers said::..your bankrupt..give us the mint/fed/etc

[look for the local 'treasury building'..lol
now none hold..'treasure'..[gold silver copper..but many are capitalist gambling dens..[casino's..dealing in plastic promise..

put it on ya card..
cause we devalued your wage..in local currency

an extensive link how the fed was privatised
http://dailybail.com/home/how-the-federal-reserve-bought-the-economics-profession.html

also on tueday max keisaer had on a guy
in the later part of the vidio..that was very informative/authoritive

http://maxkeiser.com/tag/keiser-report/

it might be on this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bRNtSp23Fz4

or this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFRREM4tz90&feature=player_embedded

the guy sounds wackey...but when you know
you either get angry or mad....mad is easier to achive..[anger gets self destructive..anyhow ol blue..cheers big ears..gotta hit the frog and/or the toad..

I think OUG Royal Family's are share holders in the Fed!
Americans do too.
America has had several privately owned national banks.
The green back was printed by the Government.
But after 1913 all money by the Fed.
Links prove Fed is as I say.
Too many will not let them selves see the truth, research, it will frighten you.