Lexi if at times my reply to you has not baffled you I am surprised, know I respect you always,as I do my friendly opponent Davidf.
Here is the reason, *you had to be there* and I was*
23 years of Labor, split and unelectable, but hoping and dreaming this time!
Letter boxing in dads very old Ute Fridays last minute run to check the signs, and dream, dads words this time son.
Saturday nights, stony faced hurt!
A few days then dad would tell of the Comos hurting us, I would remain glad he did not know I was following the comrades path, briefly.
GW restored our hopes and dreams,we helped demolish them.
They Grey bodgie put a nice bloke Bill Hayden out of a job, and won!
How good was that? saw big Mal, still hated him then, cry that night.
Only Kevin Rudd can match popularity with Hawk.
Yet we dumped him.
Lexi those who dreampt of true change did not die, they are going to vote, against us.
Gillard can never win, if not against Abbott then against no one.
Labor must rebuild before the decimation, not after.
Unions MUST let the strings drop let the party stand under the control of its members.
To blindly follow some thing you love, over a cliff is not solidarity nore bravery it is insanity.
My party, after Gillard has every chance of a solid victory.
With her no chance.

Dear Belly,

You always speak from the heart and how can
anyone not value that. I respect your views,
and your experience and I shan't say any more
because I don't want to embarrass you.

David F., I admire greatly - and always read his
posts as I learn so much from them. Now I'm
going to soak in a nice bath and then watch one
of my favourites on TV - "Criminal Minds."

<< Ludwig agree with it all but not population. >>

Eh?

Belly you surprise me. I thought we had agreement on that issue. A few days ago you started a thread on global population growth. But you think it is ok for Australia to have rapid pop growth with no end in sight? That doesn’t make sense to me.

You can’t agree with me if you don’t agree about population. Population stabilisation is essential to the achievement of a sustainable society and to the fulfilment of Labor’s good policies, as I said in my last post.

<< Both sides and Capitalism want and need growth, and population too >>

We need meaningful growth, which is much better measured in per-capita terms than by GDP. We need growth that translates into improvements in our quality of life, rather than growth that by and large means more of the same for ever-more people, but with an overall slow decline in quality, which is exactly what we’ve got now.

The last thing we need is the same old never-ending growth spiral to just continue ad-nauseum, where we have ever-more people and therefore need ever-more economic growth just to give them the same standard of living as established residents, and we feel pressure to have high immigration in order to fill the jobs in order to provide that economic growth!

It's MADNESS! We've got to break this absurd spiral. And the obvious way to do it is to reduce immigration way down, in a series of steps over about ?5 years, and let the economy adjust accordingly.

<< Labor must man up, it did the wrong thing in dumping Rudd. >>

Oh dear! Such a drastic action as deposing the PM would not have happened unless there were very good reasons. I’d say that they did the right for sure, and that they chose the appropriate replacement in the deputy PM, who up to that point had been seen to perform pretty damn well.

Who else do you think they should have picked Belly?

Ludwig you have gone of a bit early.
I agree with you my once thread should prove that.
My words do not always say clearly what I meant them to.
We are in a minority, greed, blind greed, controls us.
Both party's,every builder rel estate agent, land developer,wants growth, in population to drive all growth.
I know that is stupid, but for the present, we are the minority.
I, often, focus on Labors factions and control from out side the party.
Liberals are no different.
As many or more factions/power brokers, and in their case very rich, in all but IQ, backers.
Here is my view of the recent race to the bottom of Liberals.
John Winston Howard,you may dislike him as much as I do it will change nothing, was unbeatable.
Until he let his hatred of all things union, and his victory handing him the upper house drive him from Liberal to extreme Conservative.
Even then it took an out standing Labor leader to get the job done.
Howard forgot his own understanding,and the words of his loved mentor Menzies.
His war on unions became a war on workers, in particular the kids of Liberal voting blue collar workers.
Within the then Liberal party lived true Liberals,Conservatives And as always extremist right.
Most of Howard's back bencher's had less say in the daily running of government, than Johns rather controlling wife.
Remember that tree planting thing? screamingly funny, but harmful too
continued

As I saw it and believe it to have been shown to be true Liberals with freedom to think, picked the wrong leader.
Nelson never ever was going to be other than a flop.
As discontent at the lost election demand for an instant coffee type win, never a chance, was required.
Liberals hit the big round panic button, it must be about ten feet around.
Dumping Turnbull, for insisting the party follow its policy's.
Abbott got the cap, who knows who put him there, other than a man intent on revenge, known as Luey the fly to some, morning Mrs Howard.
Waving the power brokers tool bag around,threats about seat pre selection, Liberals, at least in part, became Conservatives.
A love affair with American Republicanism left the need for policy construction.
All Abbott had to do was say no.
As America elects its current leader and Tea Party politics places a once proud nation closer to the edge?
Given the stated policy's Lib/Cons intend to take to the election?
One they cannot fail to win they risk/in fact face the truth, they have drifted just as far from their voters as Labor.
This rush to the bottom will force change on both party's.
We will be better for it, but rough seas ahead and Gillard and Abbott are unlikely to survive.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/latest/a/-/newshome/14438455/exclusive-leaked-polling-shows-alp-annihilation/
Lexi please read the link.
For those politicians, and many do, who read this site, read it too.
From my party,yes I have blood sweat and currently and the past tears invested.
Some of the ALP readers, politicians,have a plan!

*this is it! no true! they want to stick with Gillard.
And think Howard's pony Abbott will be so bad, we can see the next election given to us!*
IF I am wrong [and I am not] if Labors handful of dills is not to have a back bone transplant, a new Labor party will be built from the rubble,not me but it is a fact.