The SMH has a story this morning about why the Tamils come on boats.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/tamils-why-we-get-on-the-boats-20120720-22fuj.html

The reason generally given for not sending ALL the illegals back home is because we cannot identify who they are or where they come from. However that should not be the case with the Sri Lankens. They should be easy enough to identify where they come from.

It appears that the Sri Lanken government will co-operate with us, so why not hold them untill we have a plane load and then send them back.

It appears that about 1500 have made it here in the last 12 months so we should have been able to be rid of them.

Obviously our government is not trying or perhaps they want them to come. Could be part of the deal with the Greens. They don't care if a few don't make it.

Banjo if such a deal with the greens exists[ do not think so] it will not post Gillard.
Taking a deep breath here, is truth worth it?
YES, not keen on boats coming ,rather Tamils than some.

Dear Banjo,

We as a civilised society are obligated under
International Law to at least assess people's
applications for asylum. Sending people back
to countries from which they are fleeing persecution
would be considered unhumane. We've never questioned
the right of people to seek asylum in the past -
why should we begin to do so now? And why Tamils?
Are their requests for asylum somehow lesser than
those of others? Or are you suggesting that their
fears are not real? As far as I know the Tamil religion
does not fit into the Sri Lankan culture and they are
being persecuted. Besides the Tamils want Independence
in their own right just like the previous Soviet-occupied
countries.

Lexi,
First of all we should assume that ALL illegal arrivals are out to deceive us, otherwise they would come via the front door.

Why send the Tamils back, or should I say Sri Lankens? Because we can identify where they come from as they sail here direct with a Sri Lanken boat and Sri Lanken crew. I do not see them as proporting to be some other nationality. It seems they are NOT persecuted and come here for purely economic reasons, as the SMH article reports. So they would not qualify as refugees. In any case, someone fleeing Sri Lanka would simply go to India, which is close and has a large tamil community.

we should not be accepting these people as refugees.

Belly,
Both Rudd and Gillard said they would stop the boats and have failed to do so. Rudd and the 'Oceanic Viking' incident was pathetic. Force should have been used to remove the hijackers or set sail for Sri Lanka and let the police there remove them.

It wpould not surprise if Gillard did a deal with the greens about illegals, as she has done nothing to stop the boats and the greens acknowledge they want the influx to continue. Didn't Hanson-Young simply pass the deaths off as expected.

I personally have nothing against Sri Lankens, except the illegals, and think they would make better citizens than some others. But the point is they are illegal and should not be here.

Dear Banjo,

I got this from the web and I think it
sums things up quite well:

"Neither major party has a viable policy that can
do what they say it will. Neither major party can
offer up any new perspective or ideas. While other
policies are available to be tried, they are
politically unacceptable to many voters. So the
endless rounds of accusations, recriminations and failure
will go on. The boats will keep coming. People will keep
dying. There's no end in sight."

I'm not in a position to make judgements about
someone's application for refugee status. Or they're
"legality" - I'll leave that up to the experts. All I
know is that people have a right to seek asylum -
and each application has to be assessed individually.
I prefer not to make sweeping statements about any
group of people or tar every one with the same brush.
But, hey - that's just me.

See you on another thread

We as a civilised society are obligated
Lexi,
Noble sentiments yes but so far from reality that they sound more like a joke. We know that troubled/troublesome people will hardly ever become the opposite in their adopted country because their problems which they bring with them have nothing to do with the country they leave. these problems are religious fanaticism & that fanaticism is not left behind or destroyed with their papers before they come here.

Banjo please consider my thoughts, before reverting to the Labor did it junk.
Labor got it wrong!
In wanting to protect the rights of refugees it forgot the wishes of Australians.
Abbott is feeding on that, if you disagree read no further, dispute resolution is beyond you.
Greens are of no worth in this debate, as are the writers of Lexis second link.
Gillard can not resolve the issue.
Nice or ugly this country's majority is not ever going to except this endless boat arrivals.
Or the covering up, miss leading, use of the word refugee by economic refugees.
Now Resolution!
Abbott has not even bothered to sit with the group Gillard put together.
HE WANTS NO resolution.
How do we stop it, show me how we move?
Only one path, besides the greens.
Gillard fears the greens, I fear her.
To move one path only that, exists.
WEDGE Abbott
Take his amendments.
Wedge the greens, ofter them, post Nehru passing the house.
More refugee in take, for Malaysia.
Because and NEGATIVITY ON LEGS KNOWS IT! Nehru will no longer work.
It will become Christmas Island.
Disagree? show me how Else we move, how we wedge both our detractors.
How we transfer accountability to it true owners.

belly,
I will continue to blame Labor for the illegals debarcle because it is true. They tok a policy that was working and stuffed it up.

The way to fix it is for them to admitt the mistake and revert to the previous policy. Now it may take a bit more now so toughen it up.

My plan. Firstly none of the Sri Lankans qualify, so send them back

Secondly. Any Illegals claiming to be Afghans, send them back. We have troops there fighting for their government which must give us some leverage in a deal. The illegals should be joining the Afghan army.

Thirdly. For anyone else that do not have identity, send to Nauru indefinately without even looking at their claims. The onus is to be on them to prove they are refugees. Those that do make it and are deemed to be refugees, give them asylum but no generous handouts from us and no family reunion. No legal aid either and no appeals. Aussies only qualify for legal aid. They should line up behind Aussies for public housing. Let the bleeding hearts keep them.

Garrantee the boats will stop coming.

Lexi I think you will find there is no political down side for anyone who doesn't require green support to continue sleeping in the same bed. With 80% of the population wanting them stopped, it is a win win situation. A win for those who stop it, & a win for us that it is stopped.

I also think that a quite large number of illegals are here escaping prosecution rather than persecution. Obviously this is a good reason for them to "loose" their papers. Proper checking would I'm sure, turn up many criminals among these people.

Some day you have to take off the rose coloured glasses when looking at those who would, & indeed do rip us off.

I'm not in a position to make judgements about
someone's application for refugee status.
Lexi,
Many of us can hence our opposition to this uncontrolled influx.

The following link may answer a few of the myths
that are being bandied about:

http://www.boat-people.org/?page_id=148

Lexi,
There's only one myth here & that's the myth debunking the myth. What you need to consider are not the numbers coming in by boat but the multiplying effect here. I have no problem with people wanting to come to Australia, my problem is that the agenda is to change Australia to a country such as they left.
If you don't believe me go & live in the western suburbs of Sydney. If that's the Australia you want go there & see how long you last as an Australian.

Lexi do you actually read that stuff?

You should not be polluting your pretty little head with that garbage.

Dear Individual,

I grew up in the Western suburbs of Sydney.
Near Parramatta. Mind you I haven't been
back for years. I married a Melbournian
and have lived in Melbourne ever since.
Are the Western suburbs really that bad
today? I used to catch the train from Parramatta
Station into the city daily - never had any
problems with anyone.

Dear Hasbeen,

You're naughty!
But I like it.

(Pssst, Lexi - don't encourage him : )

Dear Poirot,

I can't help myself. I love an old sea-dog,
especially one with a passion for vintage cars.
(sigh).

Morning Lexi.
Lets see Auburn Gilford Granville, could go on, know them all.
No wrong, Knew them all, as you once did.
Do not go back, keep the memory's.
I had to often.
Never will it be the same the past is gone .
no further comments except I took those trains everyday.
Not game now.

Lexi,
I used to rent in Church St Cabramatta just a few houses down the road from Goagh. Wild horses would be needed to drag me back there now, after all how would I communicate, I only speak english.

Parramatta itself is not so bad.
Largely Indians and Christian Lebanese.

The closer to Auburn/Lakemba the problem rises.
Just plot the drivebys. Bang bang !

It is not that there are shootings in the street every day, it is just
that it is no longer Australia, it looks like a scungy Arab town.

Belly,
On page 2 of this thread you asked me how I would handle the situation to stop the boats and i have told you.

You suggested i was simply just blaming Labor, without putting forward anything practical.

Labor stuffed it by putting ideology before practicality.

You are right in one thing, Aussies will not accept the illegals because we do not like being conned. We want others to be fair dinkum and not try to deceive us, or lie and cheat.

The only way to stop the boats coming is NOT give them what they want.

All the government has to do is stop encouraging them, make it not worth the effort for the illegals to try. No more legal aid, no family reunion, no appeals, no freebies like phone, computers and smokes etc. Labors problem is they will not try these things. Labor digs their own grave.

Individual, If what you say is true, then how do you explain the thousands of Vietnamese boat people who have gone on to be wonderful citizens of our country.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

I remember all the racial "enclaves" that existed back in the sixties and seventies - Greek and Italian shops and delicatessens and multi-lingual street signs around Annandale and other Sydney suburbs and people speaking out against the "wogs" that were coming over here and threatening our culture and stealing our jobs. It was the same years later when it was the Vietnamese's turn to be vilified.
Ten years ago we were in danger of being "swamped by Asians".

Where did they all go? They assimilate, adapt and disappear. All societies with immigration changes go through this phase. Earl's Court in London was also called "Kangaroo Valley" because that's where all the Aussies congregated.

Get over it - you're not in danger. Not every criminal is of middle-eastern appearance and there are even many prominent Australians with a middle eastern heritage - "Aussie John" Symond, Steve Bracks, Nicholas Shehadie - even Bob Katter and Joseph Hokeidonian (aka Joe Hockey) just to name a few.

As for the Sydney drive-by shootings, I thought most were being done by good old home-grown bikie gangs.

Ahhh yes Anthony like yesterdays police raid. Hmmm

Bazz,
You must be pretty desperate if you're going to label an entire culture because of a few individuals involved in a single police raid.
On that basis, could I judge all Australians to be racists by the actions of a a group of people at Bondi Beach a few years back?
Oh, wait, if I read through this thread, I would come to the same conclusions.
The word for the day, Bazz, et al, is "bigot" can we all spell "Bigot" boys and girls?
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Anthonyve,
Yes, the Vietnamese are a striking example of a people adapting to another way of life. Australian tourism to Vietnam is at an all time high, same can't be said about Lebanon, Afghanistan & Arab countries. What does that tell you ?

Indi,
You need to think a leeeetle bit more.
How many Aussie tourists were taking package tours to Saigon AT THE TIME that Vietnamese boat people were coming here?
Er, that would be none.
Comparing apples with apples leads us so much more sensible conclusions.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Anthony, the size of specialist police squads gives an indication.
How many of our police forces have French crime squads ?
British crime squads?
How many have Norwegian crime squads ?

We have Asian crime squads and Middle Eastern crime squads.
It has to have some meaning.

History Lesson of the Tamils in Sri Lanka

The Tamils immigrated to Sri Lanka, segregated themselves into a fundamentalist Religious tribe, thus causing a division in their host society. They then wanted to carve off a piece of this country that welcomed them as immigrants. To which aim the Tamils then fought a 20year terrorist War or should I say territorial war to achieve this separatist state.

This a damn good reason, possibly the most glaringly sensible reason to not invite them to immigrate on leaky boats or whichever way they want to come to this country.
After all how many countries do they want? First they left their own country, then they wanted a piece of Sri Lankan country and now they are immigrating here.

apples with apples
Anthonyve,
No matter what excuses you may come up with, facts don't change. All I can conclude is that you don't have Australia's future at heart. Are you a back-door immigrant yourself ? You certainly have a box full of excuses for them.

Dear Individual,

I think you'll find that if you go back far enough
we're all immigrants or "boat people."
And I agree with wobbles. It's inevitable that sooner
or later we all settle into our environment here in this
country. I think it's inevitable. I'll have to take a trip
to good old Parramatta one day and see for myself. It's
about time I did that.

Individual,
I'ven noticed before that when you are caught out on the facts or in exaggerating, you shoot the messenger.
No, I'm not a back Door immigrant, I simply believe in social justice and fairness.
And as for having Australia's best interests at heart, since you make a personal attack, I shall give a personal reply.
I served twenty years in the Australian military for which service I was awarded the Medal of the Order of Australia.
So, I've tangibly put Australia's interests first, and I am doing so now by opposing bigotry and ignorance.
Now, can we return to the actual discussion topic, please
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

I have never met a Tamil but I gather they are basically Hindu from the subcontinent. They would soon adapt and blend into our society. This is never going to be the case with Islamics whose allegiance is to their prophet and his unpalatable beliefs. Boat people currently inspire images of bearded Mullahs in white robes ranting against our society and living on social security.
The Lebanese experience has been a bad one for Australia.

Dear Siller,

You write that the Lebanese experience has been
a bad one for Australia. Really? On what do you base
that comment of yours? Because that's denying decades
of Lebanese contribution to this country. And I guess
we'd better tell people like - former Victorian
Premier - Steve Bracks and his family, Her Excellency Prof.
Marie Bashir AC, former Governor of NSW, John Symond -
who established one of Sydney's biggest suburban
legal practices, just to name a few. I know that the art
of reasoned, intelligent argument is a skill not easily
acquired. However, making unreasonable generalisations
and sweeping statements - you appear to be arguing on an
emotional level, not a mature intelligent one.

On here sometime back I mentioned an incident.
I had a man come to do some work on a doorstep and the first thing he
said to me was that he was a Christian Lebanese.

The division between them & the moslem Lebanese is that great and was
confirmed by the destruction of Beruit.

That is the problem. They live in different parts of Sydney.
BTW about Parramatta I spoke too soon. A teenager was murdered at the
bus station a few weeks back but day before yesterday a teenager was
stabbed four times at the bus station and is fighting for his life
in hospital. The murder was an islander event and as usual the police
try to hide the ethnic origin of offenders for the stabbing.

If there is a finger to be pointed, it should be pointed.

Siller,
Yeah, you should be a bit more precise.

Non Muslim Lebanese have not caused problems, but the Muslim Lebs are a different kettle of fish.

Fraser let most of these in against DIAC advice and they have caused nothing but trouble. Those not involved in the drug trade engage in anti social behaviour and we should stop importing any more.

Any other groups that cause us problems we should stop as well. Those that practice FGM for example. No Aussie born girl should have to endure that.

After all we should get some benefits from allowing them to share our country. Importing problems is not very smart.

Dear Banjo,

You made the statement that "importing problems is
not very smart." Well it seems that we've been
doing precisely that for a very long time if you
take a look at the history of criminals in Australia.
They include the Irish, the Brits, and
many others of Christian backgrounds. Not only Muslims
as you suggest.

There have been some notorious families of crime.
The Moran Family and the Pettingill Family just to
name two come to mind. Then there's Australian Druglords,
Gangs of Oz - and of course watching any crime docs is
quite a revelation as was the TV series of "Underbelly."

Perhaps we should ban all these other nationalities -
as well?

Lexi, that is an easy way to try and dodge the issue.

True we do have enough problems with our own, but why add to our problems ?

Lexi , Banjo
I was referring to Moslem Lebanese and apologise for my generalised comment. The Lebanese you cite Lexi are all Christian Lebanese and they have had a generally positive effect on Australia. There are exceptions; both Abe Saffron and the Bayers are/ were Christian. The Lebanese accepted by the Fraser government were refugees from the civil war in Lebanon living in Syria. They were hand picked probably by the Syrians? and were in general unwanted anywhere because of their calibre. I doubt if even Lebanon wanted them back.
These people today number some 400,000 and their infiltration into the motor cycle gangs, Kings Cross sleaze, car re-birthing, insurance fraud (an insurance fire is known as a Lebanese stock take), drugs, drive by shootings and rape are indicative of their culture. They probably commute to Kings Cross from Lakemba.
Tamils may not be perfect but they are a great improvement on this.

Lexi,
I was refering to problems relating to culture, not to individual criminality. The problems of the muslim Lebs are cultural, as Siller has pointed out.

FGM is a cultural issue as is the hatred that exists between the Croats and the Serbs. It seems there are cultural issues emerging with some African groups we have accepted as refugees that need to be watched closely. Some issues are deep seated and are passed down from generations and if they persist I believe we should stop importing those groups.

I was concerned a while back about reports of violence between groups of Sri Lankens, one of which included a home invasion with an acid attack on the occupant. However I have seen nothing more for quite some time so, at this stage, am putting the violence down to emotions shortly after the end of civil war in Sri Lanka. I hope that is the case.

But we are fools if some groups show persistant conduct contarary to our social standards, and we continue to allow them in as immigrants or refugees.

Dear Siller and Banjo and Bazz,

Thank You for explaining your positions a bit
more clearly to me. However, I still have a problem
getting my mind around how we do what you propose.
Surely you can't blame entire groups of people for
the actions of a few? That was the point that I was
trying to make in my previous post. Not all Muslims
are criminals - not all Christians are saints.
And people from various cultures have adapted well
in this country and have made positive contributions.
The same as some people that you would have thought would
make positive contributions - whose cultures were
similar to ours - failed miserably in this area.

Lexi, I think this sums it up.
We are allowing some people in, but if there are problem groups why
should we bother with all the trouble of finding the bad eggs and then
paying to keep them in gaol, till they come out and start it all over again.

Why should we bother ?

Dear Bazz,

Ah but that is the question.
Which are the problem groups?
And on what do we base which ones
they are?

Thirty years ago assimilation sounded
like a noble political idea, but in
practice it smacked of cultural genocide.

Surely it would be better to give our
ethnic minorities a choice between
the invisibility of assimilation and the
drama of separateness. A choice of the
extremes or of any point between. They have
a right to be different, to practice their
traditions (as long as they don't break our laws),
to remember their languages.

Yes this has caused problems in a society that
sees homogeneity as not only desirable but
mandatory. There have been tensions between the
ethnic groups and "us" not to mention
between and within the ethnic groups themselves.
Sadly, many of the problems that have developed have
impinged on the children of the communities,
as they fight their disapproving parents for
the right to blend in, for the right to
choose a partner "outside."

And we have wanted to intervene when we saw those
children subjected to extreme authoritarianism.
But in the process we've had a more vigorous
exciting Australia, and in the end, through
discussion and interaction, surely today - we can sort the
problems out, as we've always done

I served twenty years in the Australian military for which service I was awarded the Medal of the Order of Australia.
Anthonyve,
With all due respect, I know people who have worked for half a century in jobs like hospital cleaners, carpentry, water supply, road works, freight delivery, food industry & the list goes on. None of them ever received any recognition let alone medals for their diligence. They're battling away on a lousy pension. I also know people who received awards similar to yours but I'm still wondering what was so extraordinary about doing their jobs ?
But going back to the topic, you as an armed forces man yourself should be able to tell us why we spend trillions on our armed forces when anyone who wants to gradually take over Australia without a fight just has to roll up here without papers & claim refugee status. Just imagine what we could do with all the money saved if we did away with the armed forces who seem to be just symbolical these days. The money saved on all the hero romp'n pomp alone would support many families.

Well Lexi, we could start with the moslems and then who next comes
to attention. The rest might see the writing on the wall and change
some of the activities that are causing us problems.
If they don't like it the airport is still there.

In any case immigration is now redundant.
We need to stop all immigration.
We need to conserve our resources for our own present people.
It is now time to look after ourselves and let the rest look after themselves.