579,
We've tried to saturation point to get you to understand so no amount of expanding will suffice. I therefore sincerely regret to be unable to oblige.

yabby! the oh come on Belly stuff is junk!
During wage negotiations wage rise of 3% saw national deals done taking 1.5% as super.
Whole industry's, after wage negotiation left some in as super .
Today,some employees, by SACRIFICING WAGE RISES get 15% super.
the 9 to 12 plan was to be FUNDED BY FEDERAL GOVERNMENT VIA TAX BREAKS!
You take to others for one tracked minds but understand workers in part pay their own super this way.
And my proposal is they continue to do so.
Some workers, CASUAL get no super, a lifetime of work no super.
Superannuation can be,should be the future pension.

*Today,some employees, by SACRIFICING WAGE RISES get 15% super*

Ah Belly, is it those public servants earning 800 Grand perhaps?
Or the building workers earning 6 figures? Get real, the wages
of some of our people are totally out of whack with the rest of
the world, with more cushy benefits then anywhere else in the
world. They are nails in the coffin of productive industries which
have to compete globally.

*the 9 to 12 plan was to be FUNDED BY FEDERAL GOVERNMENT VIA TAX BREAKS!*

Not so, because most small businesses don't trade as companies and
of course the company tax cut has been canned.

Belly, you need to become more innovative with your excuses :)

I agree with the title.

When Indi says "We've tried to saturation point to get you to understand" 579 he means him/her?.

yabby I like you but feel you are at times a red neck.
Certainly in wages unions and me.
For a start,soon after super came about[the straw that was to break the Camels back].
Trade offs did too, Hawk/Keiting during the accord saw some wages rises put in to superannuation.
The current 9% includes at least two trade offs.
And not not hight income earners, but every day single agreements for single industry's have entrenched in EBAs higher superannuation.
In sitting around that table to get the EBA Unions do not bring guns!
The only real, true! power unions have,is the workers.
They leave, almost straight away if their time and skills can get a better paying job, mines ext.
And lack of understanding these truths,combined with a willingness to pit bull attack me for just saying it like it is,still leaves you wrong.
The 12% was to be funded [3% increase] by government tax relief!
Workers mate are human too!

*In sitting around that table to get the EBA Unions do not bring guns!*

They don't need guns, Belly. Much easier to hide behind the skirts
of the law. I remember when the whole Pilbara shut down, because
the unions did not like the colour of the jelly in the canteen.
The Japanese watched all this and ran off to Brazil, which today
has the world's largest iron ore mine.

The difference between you and me is that I have one great strength,
I can use a calculator. You see all this from your own personal
involvement and passion in negotiating for workers. I remind you
that there are also plenty of union thugs out there, not all as sweet
and kind as Belly.

12% super will be another reason not to invest in business in Australia.
One more nail in the coffin. That might not matter right
now, but wait until minerals prices crash and miners stop investing.
That might happen sooner then you think.

Next you will be telling me that people in Sydney and Melbourne
want jobs! Australia has to live in the real world. They bled the
merino to death until it collapsed, now its on the back of mining.
That will end too when the price bubble bursts.