My politics is very much issues based, not party based, unlike
many posters. Judging by Tony's released policies so far, ie taxing
major companies an extra 1.5%, to give 75 Grand to women already
earning plenty, or forcing kids to learn languages in which they
have absolutaly no interest, is hardly showing good judgement.

So a list of the policies that I would support:

Scrap the carbon tax.

Scrap the 12% super, 9% is already enough of a burden for employers.

Overhaul our education system so that more skilled people which our
economy actually needs, are the outcome. That is not just about spending more, but spending smarter.

Cut the massive Govt waste. We really don't need an ambassador to
the Vatican for instance. But we urgently need more Australian doctors. Its a question of priorities.

Include family planning as a high priority in our foreign aid programme. Feeding more people which results in even more hungry
people, is hardly intelligent thinking.

Renegotiate our partipation to the UN 1951 Convention on refugees, to
close the many loopholes, as it is 60 years out of date.

Rich pensioners, who own a million $ house, will have to accept that
they will have to use part of their assets if they want a comfy
retirement, not just bleed the taxpayer, in order to leave even more
wealth for the kids.

Copy the Swiss laws to allow terminally ill people to deny with dignity at their time of choosing, rather then force them to gasp
to their last breathe, because the alleged god said so.

Ok, that is a start.

<< Tony is hardly the answer >>

Um, yes, that’s a rather large understatement!

Yabby, I think you are on the right track. I agree with everything you have listed, except the first one.

I’d like to see the carbon tax strengthened so that it really is a big incentive for us to get the bejeezus off of our addiction to fossil fuels, to start taking peak oil seriously and to develop a sustainable energy regime in which renewables play an ever-larger part.

The other major policy that absolutely needs to happen is a reduction of immigration to net zero or at least somewhere far lower than it is now.

The key is, as I’ve said nearly a million time on this forum: the development of a genuine sustainability strategy for our country.

Until there is a party that espouses this, I will continue to vote for NO ONE, as I have for about the last twenty years.

Like you, my politics are strongly issues based. I will not vote for the party I feel is the slightly lesser of two evils, as most people do. A party has to earn my vote… or else it’s the old ‘no candidate deserves my vote’ vote from me!

Well put yabby but.
As I said in hobsons choice, what are we to do?
Gillard yesterday, called for ALP voters to put a blanket over our heads and refuse to see we are playing a roll in Abbott's keeping the leadership, while he is doing just that for Gillard.
Australia is running third in a two horse race.
As Europe gets nearer to its break point, seems Greece will be the first of many to fall, we stand exposed.
But are not watching.
I think this year we face true threats to world financial structures that will compare with 1929.
Yet led badly we are blind to it.

Yet led badly we are blind to it.
Belly,
You're coming good. I have stated repeatedly that Australians simply do not take notice of others' mistakes & then go down the same track.
Why can't Australians wake up that the rest of the world is all but stuffed in every which way. Here we still have a tiny chance to not go down the same path. I suppose one of the problems is that Australia's voters are now largely non-australian hence things going in the same bad direction.
Julia is not listening but Tony can still be groomed, at least there's a slight chance.

There could be an election at any time, but the opposition is not putting anything forward for the people to make a judgment of.
This has got to be an extremely dangerous maneuver.
Mr Abbott has shown every sign of being radical.
You say we are being poorly led, what does that consist of. Labor has always done the hard decisions, when the chips are down and in time of war.
I am amazed at people that can recommend anyone that says nothing and only spreads fear and rhetoric. It's called living in hope.

living in hope.
579,
Much preferable to living in confirmed & proven hopelessness.

Indi can you expand on that so we know what you are saying.

Or that fools paradise these lefties inhabit.

Well this is it, everybody is scrapping about people rather then
policies which will benefit the country. Bitching away, like a
bunch of schoolgirls :)

Politicians focussing on what might buy them a few votes to take
them over the line, rather then what is best for the country.
For their own careers clearly matter more then anything. Get real
kids, these are simply a bunch of lawyers, scrapping about their
huge egos.

We need to get back to focussing on policies which matter, not
schoolgirl bitching.

Let's get real here. If Labor had proposed taxing large companies
an extra 1.5% to give it away, Hasbeen, SM and others would be
complaining about the evil left. Some of you are simply so tribal,
that you have lost the ability to think about things a bit more objectively.
Personally I'll keep focussing on policies that matter.

When Julie Bishop proposed her languages for schoolkids programme,
wether they want it or not, some of us made it clear to her why
it was stupid policy and why it would not work. Next thing it's
official liberal policy. It seems that both liberal and labor
should be consulting with us average people a bit more, before
they come up with another bright idea that is doomed to failure.

Hasbeen done that!just under didyabringyagrogalong.
And under Belly's hide away.
Put fools Paradise up!
Yabby never agreed with the cut in super or carbon tax.
Super was to be paid in part by less tax,
And face it,we got to 9% by workers taking wage cuts as super contributions.
I think we need more not less,and that right now every wage increase should see a third go to superannuation.
Why?
Welfare,we should never take it away from needy,but we must and soon face up to real reform.
Corruption from those paid to police and those excepting welfare is a crime against us all.
We could do better for the true needy if we fixed it.
Superannuation one day will and should,be what we live on in retirement.
A day will come that we no longer have to borrow over seas as super funds grow

*And face it,we got to 9% by workers taking wage cuts as super contributions.*

Oh come on Belly, get real. We have some of the world's highest
wages. German workers have gone backwards for 15 years, so have
Americans. Australian workers are 20% better off. Don't give
me bullcrap :)

Fact is your carbon tax is clobbering dairy farmers and milk
processors, about 5-6 Grand per farm and you say nothing. If it
was costing workers that, you would be jumping from the roof in
protest.

Fact is that ever more super and a carbon tax are clobbering the
most productive sectors of our economy, who have to compete globally.

Next you will be calling for innovation as the solution. Get off their
frigging backs with your ever increasing charges. They have to
live in the real global world, unlike some of you.

All this gloom and doom and "end-of-civilisation-as-we-know-it talk" seems to have overlooked another tax.

How about a tax that, from the day it was introduced, not only affected future income but also retrospectively reduced the value of everybody's existing tax-already-paid savings (including super) by 10%?

People have now accepted the GST but baulk at everything else.

Everybody wants something but nobody wants to pay for it.

579,
We've tried to saturation point to get you to understand so no amount of expanding will suffice. I therefore sincerely regret to be unable to oblige.

yabby! the oh come on Belly stuff is junk!
During wage negotiations wage rise of 3% saw national deals done taking 1.5% as super.
Whole industry's, after wage negotiation left some in as super .
Today,some employees, by SACRIFICING WAGE RISES get 15% super.
the 9 to 12 plan was to be FUNDED BY FEDERAL GOVERNMENT VIA TAX BREAKS!
You take to others for one tracked minds but understand workers in part pay their own super this way.
And my proposal is they continue to do so.
Some workers, CASUAL get no super, a lifetime of work no super.
Superannuation can be,should be the future pension.

*Today,some employees, by SACRIFICING WAGE RISES get 15% super*

Ah Belly, is it those public servants earning 800 Grand perhaps?
Or the building workers earning 6 figures? Get real, the wages
of some of our people are totally out of whack with the rest of
the world, with more cushy benefits then anywhere else in the
world. They are nails in the coffin of productive industries which
have to compete globally.

*the 9 to 12 plan was to be FUNDED BY FEDERAL GOVERNMENT VIA TAX BREAKS!*

Not so, because most small businesses don't trade as companies and
of course the company tax cut has been canned.

Belly, you need to become more innovative with your excuses :)

I agree with the title.

When Indi says "We've tried to saturation point to get you to understand" 579 he means him/her?.

yabby I like you but feel you are at times a red neck.
Certainly in wages unions and me.
For a start,soon after super came about[the straw that was to break the Camels back].
Trade offs did too, Hawk/Keiting during the accord saw some wages rises put in to superannuation.
The current 9% includes at least two trade offs.
And not not hight income earners, but every day single agreements for single industry's have entrenched in EBAs higher superannuation.
In sitting around that table to get the EBA Unions do not bring guns!
The only real, true! power unions have,is the workers.
They leave, almost straight away if their time and skills can get a better paying job, mines ext.
And lack of understanding these truths,combined with a willingness to pit bull attack me for just saying it like it is,still leaves you wrong.
The 12% was to be funded [3% increase] by government tax relief!
Workers mate are human too!

*In sitting around that table to get the EBA Unions do not bring guns!*

They don't need guns, Belly. Much easier to hide behind the skirts
of the law. I remember when the whole Pilbara shut down, because
the unions did not like the colour of the jelly in the canteen.
The Japanese watched all this and ran off to Brazil, which today
has the world's largest iron ore mine.

The difference between you and me is that I have one great strength,
I can use a calculator. You see all this from your own personal
involvement and passion in negotiating for workers. I remind you
that there are also plenty of union thugs out there, not all as sweet
and kind as Belly.

12% super will be another reason not to invest in business in Australia.
One more nail in the coffin. That might not matter right
now, but wait until minerals prices crash and miners stop investing.
That might happen sooner then you think.

Next you will be telling me that people in Sydney and Melbourne
want jobs! Australia has to live in the real world. They bled the
merino to death until it collapsed, now its on the back of mining.
That will end too when the price bubble bursts.

Yabby,
I have never thought highly of Abbott, however he did prevent us from being saddled with an ETS and that must count for something. I am quite prepared to see how he goes as PM. He certainly could not be worse than the present.

First things first, this is the worst and most incompedent government we have ever had and must go, the sooner the better. Ohe cannot believe anything the PM says.

There is a list of 50 Labor stuff ups now circulating, most of which cannot be refuted. Now we have a Minister for Trade (Emerson) thinking that Greece and Spain are in the Southern Hemisphere. Just how stupid are they?

So it is not just the PM who is a problem. it is the whole government.

Good to hear Abbott was good for something other than being professor of NO.
You would give abbott a go with no policy, that is dangerous and stupid.
When he explains why he continually puts his foot in his hatch, maybe they will reinstall Turnbull. Abbott can end up in jail.

579,
You sound about as intelligent as Emerson. Do you know where Spain and Greece are? Pretty obvious you got no practical education.

Abbott has already stated he will stop the boats and scrap the carbon tax. Hey, thats good and the Libs have a reputation for good fiscal management, even better!

Why would anyone not vote for them next election?

*I am quite prepared to see how he goes as PM.*

That's all very well Banjo, perhaps you are easily satisfied.
Personally I would like to see a Govt which has great policies.
So I'm focussing on what are good and what are crook policies,
for this is not a footy match, where we should be satisfied if
our team wins.

So I've highlighted a couple of crook policies which Tony has
announced and he has not announced too many as yet. The libs
clearly need to do some homework on what policies they should
actually run with.

It would be nice to think that we for once had a Govt that lands
up improving the country, rather then a mob who gets over the
line, because the other mob is useless.

yabby, have you seen me use the term thugs and mugs?
Even in current threads?
I am nearly sure the two unions you complain of are Representative of them.
You live in a world that never existed.
In sitting in that negotiation room, biggest construction firms in south east Asia, all once Australian owned, it is them with the power.
CFMEU, I would not be able to say this if still working, use stand over tactics, and worse.
I fought them as hard, often harder than any boss.
BUT SO TO do all good unions.
They stain the movement!
You see in class warfare,and no amount of talking will change that.
Membership, and Bosses fled to my union as a refuge from thugs and mugs/that union,and put better deals on the table without pressure.
there is a difference.

Yabby,
You make it sound as though we have many options. We don't. We either stck with the present mob, which is unthinkable, or we put the libs into government.

As well as the policies you quoted, I do not like the 'baby bonus' and I would like immigration reduced, but I do like the boats being stopped and scrapping the carbon tax. Do not forget financial management and that multiculturalism was being let die.

The present Labor government has been a complete disaster, financial and otherwise. They run a one man band where the PM makes all decissions. The Libs have in the past had a Cabinet that discussed matters before implementation. If a Lib leader tries to make all decissions he will become unstuck, as Turnbull was.

We do not have other options and looking at the form guide there is only one party that will deliver anything like a decent government.

Pledges in blood, crap, no, sh** happens.
When the sky falls in on the 1/6/2012. We will know who to blame.
Thugs and Mugs, Abbott can really put his foot in it. This a future diplomat, Statesman. Really.
Abbott is against anything the working person's get. He is a 1% politician.
Hockey has had enough of Abbott,
Put some policies up and they will get ripped to shreds. Abbott made a mistake in parliament recently by asking a question about the economy,
first time in this parliament.
Costello says he is economically illiterate.
Turnbull is the far better choice, Abbott won by one vote.
The Libs are in turmoil behind the scenes.
A vote for Abbott is a vote for a horse with 3 legs in the Melbourne Cup.

It's most probably the case that Tony Abbott is an extremist at best, of some sort.

It is really hard to tell what sort of extremist, but he has surrounded himself with right wing sycophants and downright dirty guys willing to do anything to put a screen up over what it is, that will be their policy, until after they gain power. No doubt they plan too see they're policies costed by another dodgy accounting firm just prior too the next election, whatever they are.

Chanting "we'll stop the boats" is not policy, its a chant, and having no credible policy to reduce carbon emissions is "not" having a policy Banjo, not having one, you a clearly living in a fantasy world.

The 50 stuff ups going around of which you speak Banjo, must be chatter when your attending LNP functions I guess, because the parliament has managed to pass heaps of important legislation despite the sabotage of Abbott and Co. Unfortunately the New LNP State Premiers have now gained enough grunt to contribute to the lack of co-operation with "our" elected Federal Govt. Oh woe is us Banjo. Its like living in forwards/backwards land with our lives being treated like some sort of political football.

How can Australian politics have come to this?!. Let the Govt govern, because they are doing a good job, the economy is not trashed, our International credit ratings are now AAA, our debt is minuscule compared with anyone else. And yes we have a Govt with a plan for the future, starting with a publicly owned NBN.

As for a reputation for good fiscal management thats one thing, as for proving that , that is another Banjo. I believe instead that there is indeed historical proof that LNP Govt's have not managed the economy well. Particularly in modern Australian political history.

Thinker,
For your benefit. The list circulates

The Top 50 Labor Lemons – so far! 24-9-11

1. Carbon Tax – “There will be no carbon tax under the government I lead.”
2. NBN – $50 billion but no cost-benefit analysis
3. Building the Education Revolution – The school halls fiasco
4. Home Insulation Plan (Pink Batts) – Dumped
5. Citizens Assembly – Dumped
6. Cash for Clunkers – Dumped
7. Hospital Reform – Nothing
8. Digital set-top boxes – Cheaper at Harvey Norman
9. Emissions Trading Scheme – Abandoned
10. Mining Tax – Continuing uncertainty for our miners
11. Livestock export ban to Indonesia – Over-reaction
12. Detention Centres – Riots & cost blow-outs
13. East Timor ‘solution’ – Announced before agreed
14. Malaysia ‘solution’ – Only just agreed, sort of. Gillard’s great deal for Australia, Malaysia get none, after we’’ve paid god knows what to update facilities there, and we get 4000
15. Manus Island ‘solution’ – On the backburner
16. Computers in Schools – $1.4 billion blow out; less than half delivered
17. Cutting Red Tape – 12,835 new regulations, only 58 repealed
18. Asia Pacific Community – Another expensive Rudd frolic. Going nowhere
19. Green Loans Program – Abandoned. Only 3.5% of promised loans delivered
20. Solar Homes & Communities plan – Shut down after $534 million blow out
21. Green Car Innovation Fund – Abandoned
22. Solar Credits Scheme – Scaled back
23. Green Start Program – Scrapped
24. Retooling for Climate Change Program – Abolished
25. Childcare Centres – Abandoned. 260 promised, only 38 delivered

Cont.

Labor Lemons Cont.

26. Take a “meat axe”’ to the Public Service – 24,000 more public servants added
27. Murray Darling Basin Plan – back to the drawing board
28. 2020 Summit – Meaningless talkfest
29. Tax Summit – Deferred and downgraded
30. Population Policy – Sets no targets
31. Fuel Watch – Abandoned
32. Grocery Choice – Abandoned
33. $900 Stimulus cheques – Sent to dead people and overseas residents
34. Foreign Policy – In turmoil with Rudd running riot
35. National Schools Solar Program – Closing two years early
36. Solar Hot Water Rebate – Abandoned
37. Oceanic Viking – Caved in
38. GP Super Clinics – 64 promised, only 11 operational
39. Defence Family Healthcare Clinics – 12 promised, none delivered
40. Trade Training Centres – 2,650 promised, 70 operational
41. Bid for UN Security Council seat – An expensive Rudd frolic
42. MySchool Website – Revamped but problems continue
43. National Curriculum – States in uproar
44. Small Business Superannuation Clearing House – 99% of small businesses reject it
45. Indigenous Housing Program – Way behind schedule
46. Rudd Bank – Went nowhere
47. Using cheap Chinese fabrics for Defence uniforms – Ditched
48. Innovation Ambassadors Program – junked
49. Six Submarines – none operational - yet they plan to buy 12 replacements
50. Debt limit to be increased to $250 billion – to pay for all of this and much more

Add a couple more since then

100 years Anzac commerastions report should be 'culturally Sensitive'

Gove did not follow due process re contract--auditor general

Minister claims miners tax will increase workers super benefits

No doubt more to come.

Oh so we don't have a triple AAA credit rating Banjo, we don't have the lowest comparative govt debt in the world ?.

How many billions of taxpayers money was wasted and risk to our future security incurred when John Howard bought Lockheed Martins unfinished Strike Fighters on his lonesome in a motel room ,despite the ADF being opposed to it and now they still cant get these sh**heaps off the ground. Australia's very air security is now at risk.Proof itself that Howard made critical decisions without consulting his colleagues, the Public Service, Treasury or anyone.

How many pink bats is that Banjo in wastage terms and why did Howard do that in the first place. Was it the commission perhaps?.

Practically everything if not all on your so called circulating list would end in most peoples junk mail.

Banjo

and all that in 5 years. A record that only socialist could be proud of.

Thinker,
Give you something to think about? You should be gratefull for me posting the list as now as it gives you time to work out a response, however weak, before the next election.

Last post you said, "Let the Govt govern, because they are doing a good job" Yeah, glance through the list again, nothing but stuff ups in everything. Oh well we are counting down to the next election.

I cannot lay claim to the list, it was sent to me, but it has been sent on to all in my address book, with my suggestion to circulate. Although I am not a member of any political party, I will ensure the LNP get the list as well. Take note SM.

I am just another voter fed up with the lies and incompedence of the current government. I intend to do all I can to see they are kicked out, including circulating that list again as people need reminding from time to time. Many issues I had forgotten about myself.

*They stain the movement!*

Sure they do, Belly. Which is my point exactly. There are union
thugs, corrupt union officials, misuse of union funds for prostitutes,
etc. I gather that only about 20% of workers even bother with a
union these days. So its all about shades of grey, not black and
white, unions good, employers bad, as so many try to project it.

*We do not have other options *

Well we do, Banjo. When politicians of whatever colour try to
enforce crap policies, we need to scream loudly from the rooftops
to make sure that they change their minds. The squeaky wheel gets
the oil and politicians cannot ignore public opinion, or do so at
their peril.

So that is my point really. I will highlight crap liberal or labor
policies when I find them.

BTW 579, I bought some lamb loin chops at Coles yesterday. Unlike
the 42$ a kg which you quoted on another thread, they were 18$ a
kg. A couple of lamb chops for 4 bucks, which is enough for the meat
component of a meal. Perhaps you need to change your butcher.

No need to change butcher, don't touch the stuff. 420 c / kg live today.
Been up to 470 c / kg
Most here are selling bulk, cut yourself up.
Tony can-not say he didn't say it, can he.
He has upset the union boys now.
6 to 12 jail for that.

*420 c / kg live today.*

Yup, but that is carcassweight, not actual live weight. Live weight
would be around 2 bucks a kg.We throw in the hearts, livers, kidneys,
intestines, blood and the rest of the so called fifth leg, for free.

Given that Woolies are advertising washed salad in 100g packs at
2.50, or 25$ per kg and people flock to buy it, lamb loin chops
at 18 bucks a kg at Coles are a bargain. So much for so called
expensive meat.

Banjo,
your list is just of the obvious ones, there are bound to be several dozen hidden ones. This fed Govt isn't competent enough to to only come up with 50 duds.