If only we had conviction politicians as we once had in Australia.

After watching the Four Corners program about the Mabo High Court decision, I couldn't help but feel, that on the issue of native title, a statesman like Paul Keating was a giant among dwarfs. His forward thinking helped to settle this issue for once and for all and allowed all Australians to live with a sense of dignity.

The program itself has the value of hindsight and makes for a very interesting snapshot of history. The true and fair dinkum Paul Keating at his best. A Prime Minister that could get the trust of all parties over an issue of such magnitude is a rare thing indeed.

Ah those were the days.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/05/03/3494661.htm

We part company on this one.Keating oversaw another recession and allowed our country to be raped yet again.He also sold off the last vertiges of our sovereignity ie the Commonwealth Bank.

I have nothing but distain for him.

If the FWA report is acted on by the police, we may yet have another labor politician of conviction.

SM will always swipe at every opportunity.
And sadly the Gillard lead ALP will always provide the ammunition.
Thinker 2 I too watched the doco.
And too did so with pride.
My memory however reminds me PK was not loved by many, his actions the end of the world,in conservatives eyes.
Once more the sky did not fall,as it will not on carbon tax.
But we have fallen a very long way from PK Gillard and those backing her,deaf to the thoughts and opinions of the ALP foot soldiers, in fact claiming ownership and relegating us to floor sweeping,are in another paddock.

Hello there BELLY...

There was no doubt that Paul Keating somewhat polarised many people, both with his style and his obvious statesmanship qualities. Personally I'll leave the merits of that particular discussion to others far more qualified to provide a more finite determination.

Myself, I've only had the one occasion that I can claim to have been 'up close and personal' with the redoubtable Paul Keating.
That was the first year after he had adequately dealt with the leadership of Bob Hawke.

Though, I was with him for no more than seventy or eighty minutes, it was during this brief period that I found him to be perhaps one of the rudest, most arrogant and loathsome individuals that I've ever had the misfortune to deal with. And at that time, it was I that had the (sole) carriage of his personal safety, and yet he did absolutely nothing to aid me in providing that service.

Moreover as a footnote, Mr Malcolm Fraser was yet another, possessing a similar disposition, though not quite as arrogant, but equally as aloof and bumptious to the extreme.

What is it they say...? Birds of a feather, or something ?

allowed all Australians to live with a sense of dignity.
thinker2,
what evidence do you base that on ? Where is mine ?

Yep, Keating was a star, but if I posted here what I think he was a star at, I'd cop a 2 month ban.

o sung I think you got both of them right. About the only difference between the 2 is that Fraser is a bit dumber than Keating.

I suppose there is one more difference. With Fraser we are still suffering from some of the things he didn't do, & should have. With Keating, we are suffering from things he did do, & shouldn't have.

View the link Individual, you might get some.

One of the most noticeable things in the doco is the lack of dignity displayed by opposition figures, their failure to admit in even hindsight that no bad came of Keating's Native Title Act, lacks in dignity and fairness even more. Their behaviour is pretty much indefensible at the time, so I guess they have to stick to their story.

The dignity I mentioned in my initial post was meant to refer to the dignity one receives as a non indigenous Australian, that recognising and acknowledging the rights of our indigenous people brought, both locally and internationally.

This was somewhat destroyed later by LNP politicians attempting to dismantle or modify the NTA and discredit its benefit to our country. Smelling political advantage in racism the LNP later descended to children overboard etc, and the current mantra stop the boats etc. Their most captivating political ploy. Perhaps this is where your dignity has gone Individual.

And as for your argument Arjay, the world also in recession at the time to which you refer could not be avoided by Australia and Keating rather than causing it, (to his credit) saw us through that, and into the strapping economy that Howard inherited, and then later sold to friendly investors.

And SM, I'll save you to last, beside your post being a simplistic diversion tactic, the word conviction, implies that this has already been decided re Thompson. Obviously the presumption of innocence means nothing to you when you use such language.

And what is your view on native title ?.

Hasbeen , could you actually identify something he did then, that we are suffering from now ?.

Keating and Costello were both great politicians who made a long
term difference to Australia. Both men were great debaters and
neither man was a crawler.

But the Australian public seemingly prefers crawlers, so that is
what they get. So be it, we get the policitians that we deserve.

Dear thinker 2,

Thanks for the link. I've actually asked my daughters to sit down and watch it as it occurred before they were born.

I have to agree with oh sung wu as I had a brother in the Feds and a mate of his flying the PM’s aircraft. The pilot especially had a lot more time for Hawke who use to come up to the cockpit in his slippers often with a cigar and say gidday. If he really needed to get somewhere in a hurry he would politely ask if it wasn’t going to stuff them around to see what they could do. They always pulled out all stops. Keating was demanding and arrogant and always seemed to get headwinds whenever he was in a hurry.

But as they say cometh the hour cometh the man and it certainly held true on this occasion. Hell I remember my inlaws all in a blind panic about native title even though I assured them their house was safe. Jeff Kennett had them all scared out of their minds.

I really think Keating was probably the only politician who could have managed it. Quite extraordinary. I would have to dip the hat to Fraser’s handling of the Vietnamese boat people but Keating’s arrogance won the day on native title. Only he could have stared down the mining council and pasturalists. Speaking of arrogance Richard Court was pretty much his equal on that count.

Damn good stuff. I especially liked the way he handled himself with John Laws and his callers.

Thanks again for the link.

Totally in agreement with csteele,but also with o sung wo!
For a Banks town boy I was shocked at his attitude and often am still, but nothing other than praise for his actions and Redfern speech.
I think PK repeating every thing was an insult to us all.
And with out reserve hate it and all those,on both sides,who copy it even today.
Good swift kick in the ring for the speech writer who thought of that new way to annoy every one.

Some very special people have the instant ability to polarize opinion. Paul Keating was one of those. So was Margaret Thatcher. And Richard Nixon. Interestingly - and probably not coincidentally - they tend to be people who have had the most lasting impact on their surroundings.

For me, Paul Keating was the last genuine statesman to lead this country. In fact, head and shoulders above any other Prime Minister of the past fifty years.

Bob Hawke was "the people's princess", and represented perfectly the lovable larrikin angle of the Australian persona, confirming the majority overseas view that Australia is a great place for a holiday, but not much else.

John Howard also did a great job representing another significant aspect of our national character, that of the fawning colonial sycophant, totally at home in the skin of a suburban Sydney family solicitor.

Kevin Rudd may actually have turned out to be in the Keating mould - intelligent, cultured and world-aware - if he hadn't been cut off at the knees by the people in his Party who resented him viscerally, for exactly those characteristics. He certainly is reported to have demonstrated his personal arrogance on a number of occasions, which also nudge him towards the Keating/Thatcher/Nixon category.

I'll take a bit of personal arrogance in an effective, get-it-done package, ahead of caring, empathetic, winsome, blind incompetence any day of the week.

Keating was an even bigger liar than Gillard.

She just told lies like "no carbon tax".

Keating actually legislated lies, like the "law LAW law" con, before an election.

Guess to a socialist this is just smart politics.

Good afternoon to everyone...

I realize I'm quite off topic, and I'll probably get a kicking (deservedly so I expect) but I would nevertheless like to share something else with you all.

In Sydney during the official visit of US President, George BUSH Snr, I had occasion to perform duty involving the US Secret Service.

As it's done, we all exchanged our business cards, some bit's of jewellery (tie tacks, cuff links and similar), shoulder patches, etc. Thus, we generally formed a loose professional friendship for the duration.

During a 'stand down' period, one of the SAIC's was telling me, amongst other things, about some of the idiosyncrasies of President's with whom he's drawn duty. He stated inter alia, that Ronald REAGEN was considered (by most Agents) to be a pretty good guy as was the First Lady, Nancy.

Though, the same couldn't be said of Jimmy CARTER. It would appear, out of public view, he too displayed characteristics and foibles similar to that of Paul KEATING. It was asserted that CARTER was moody, mistrustful and tended to micromanage most things. Strangely, Rosalynn, the first lady wasn't mentioned at all.

Unfortunately, much of what was said was pursuant to 'Chatham House' rules. So I wouldn't dare go any further.

I guess being the most powerful man of the free world, does carry enormous responsibilities, and maintaining an allround 'good guy' persona, doesn't rate all that highly in the scheme of things.

Thank you csteele for your comments and I also think your daughters would be enriched by a look at the program. It's true the young haven't experienced such depth in politicians in their lifetimes.

Had we not elected Howard in 96 we would have had a National Dental Health Scheme now, and we could have afforded it. Shows how far ahead and visionary this particular Prime Minister Keating was. He was ready to do things then, that we can only dream of now. Telstra would never had been sold and we would already have had access to NBN style high speed broadband today, now.

These are 2 examples of things that Howard did and did not do Hasbeen , (I have oodles more if you want), that directly effect our living standards and outcomes today negatively.

Pericles, you and I are on the same page and I agree with your assessment, but I would not compare Nixon or Thatcher to Keating. The other 2 could even be considered villainous and definitely born of elitist conservative politics.

Keating was driven by, I believe a social conscience lacking in the other 2. In short he was the last genuine Australian Labor PM. The phrase I would use to describe Paul Keating is "brains , balls and couldn't be bought". Exactly what you need in a PM.

Bob Hawke before him was not a Labor PM, in my view Belly. We might discuss that someday.

The arrogance part I cant concede any knowledge too, o sung wu having not known PK personally, but I have always found his response to my correspondence, punctual , courteous , professional and personal. Conversely a friend of mine had dinner with Paul at a football game and said he was a very nice man. Incidentally this friend of mine has never voted Labor. But I have no doubt there is some voracity too the arrogance claim against Paul Keating. Nobody's perfect that is a truism.

American politics is irrelevant to this discussion OSW because I don't think America's political system could ever produce a Keating in the modern era. Maybe once upon a time in it's past in the time of its forefathers.

This type of politician is uniquely Australian, born of struggle and rebellion, not of silver spoon and influence.

Dear Thinker 2,

I remember Keating for so many things.
For his "colourful language" - he was
great in Parliament and few could match him.

He laid out a framework to achieve Australia
becoming a Republic. He stressed the importance of
Australia's links with Asia, he sought reconciliation
between Indigenous and Non-Indigenous Australians.
Legislation was passed - Mabo judgement on Aboriginal
land title. There were sweeping programs of economic
reform and de-regulation, floated the Australian dollar
on international money markets to make Australia
competible in the global economy, and the list goes on.

Yes - where are politicians of his ilk today, well might we
ask.

We've gone back to the days of Howard - to a very polarised
society where criticism is common but productive discussion
is rare. Where issues like asylum-seekers are again exploited,
where no respect is shown for one's political opponents.
Where one man's ambition is placed above the good of the
nation or even his own party. Howard's refusal to retire cost his party the 2007 election. What will Mr Abbott's ambition
cost his party I wonder.

Perhaps bringing back Peter Costello might do the trick in
saving the Liberal Party at the next election. Who knows.

Hi there Thinker 2...

I'm duly chastened apropos comparing US Politics with our system.

My sorry tale of some of the rudeness occasioned upon myself, at the hands of one, Paul Keating - it amounts to nothing in the scheme of things.

Further, I totally agree with most of those here, when they rightly acclaim the efforts and character of PK with those that are the necessary 'wherewithal' associated with true leadership.

And the many other qualities that PK had, that we no longer see or experience in the Australian political landscape.

Someone said herein, that PK could never be bought ? How very true. He was his own man. If the only identifiable defect that PK had was his abrasive style, well so what. We're all big boys.

After all he was the leader of our country, not an overly sensitive senior constable.

Hi there back o sung wu, I'd like to think that Paul Keating himself (if he were reading this critique) would feel a little chastened and humbled by your gracious remarks.

cheers T2

..and a gentleman. A few years back while I was walking down a street on a bit of a narrow footpath, he took a broad step aside for me to pass, with his companion.

Agree with all the above said. He could be called a street fighter but at least he had passion and conviction, and BELIEF which is sorely lacking today especially in Labour politics.

Hello there CONSTANCE...

I believe you're correct when you say PK exhibited exemplary manners. I've actually seen evidence of that trait myself.

Further, I noticed women were very much attracted to him too. He had that ready smile which he used to good effect.

I don't really know why he chose to be such an abrasive individual at times ?

In my experience, the absolute rudest of them all was Garath Evens.
On one occasion, I pulled a 'Close Protection' shift with this bloke, when he was at his Sydney Office. Apparently there was a high 'Threat Assessment' on him. And, at the time he was Minister for Foreign Affairs.

Anyway, he claimed his detail was "too close to him" and we should be far more discreet ? He possessed a very low tolerance for police, even those who had carriage of his personal protection. Emmmmm ?

Could write a book on some of these people.

Hi guys,

Many years ago my cousin was assigned to Pauline Hanson when she was touring in northern Victoria. To the consternation of the rest of us he claimed he found her really attractive, something that surprised him to no end as well.

He is still in the job so I'm dying to see if he manages to get the PM to look after whether he just has a thing for redheads.

Hi there CSTEELE...

I'd have to concur with you with respect to Pauline Hanson. I think you said it was your cousin or brother who was a member of the Fed's, where I was with NSW. Of course they (the Fed's) had far greater access to the VIP'S than us.

Nevertheless, I did have the opportunity to be 'up close and personal' with Ms Hansen. Indeed, she's very vivacious even beguiling. And the little time I had with her, I found her to be most polite and somewhat self-effacing.

Another notable lady who I found to be most attractive (at the time), was Lindy Chamberlain.

We had a job in Darwin which necessitated taking a statement from a crim in the Berrimah womens gaol. We were met at the gate by the Deputy Supt. and as we proceeded across to the office my offsider enquired about their 'star guest' Lindy. Our attention was directed towards a women mowing the lawn, not thirty feet away.

We were confronted with this lithesome, very attractive, tanned lady with dark, short hair. Indeed, it was none other than Lindy Chamberlain herself. Naturally, we didn't speak with her, she was not the individual that we needed to interview...In conclusion, it would appear a sub-tropical climate, together with the sparten conditions of gaol, must truly agree with some folk.

Thankfully, Lindy was proven to be innocent pf the charge that landed her in gaol.

Interesting o sung wu, ironically I was about to mention that the other great achiever of the Hawke/Keating era was Gareth Evans who went on do great things in the International arena, as has Keating.

I would have viewed GA politically from afar, as a civil libertarian, which may go a little way to explaining distaste or even distrust of security or police presences. Or maybe it's a symptom (rudeness I mean) of the position.

I mentioned earlier osw, about coming from struggle and rebellion. I harbour this belief that once upon a time there was an Australian psyche. Basically it was born of rebellion and necessity. Since Eureka, if you like, there has always been a line drawn that governs rules or conditions that exist between the aristocracy and the masses. A social safety net.

Politicians like Keating and Evans, were from this side of the track.

Since then we have seen an erosion or blurring of this line, with politicians today of both colours advocating more police, more security, more erosion of civil liberties in law, more intrusions to privacy etc, more privatizations of essential services, more reductions in health and education expenditure and infrastructure, more taxpayer's dollars going back into the pockets of corporations, need I go on. Frankly I'm glad I'm old.

More importantly less representation, less leadership, with (in my view) even less prospect of solving this by changing the Gov't by electing the loony right in Abbott and Co whilst we still have the smallest vestige of Govt spending money on us. The NBN is a shining example of forward thinking, let them get on with it and enshrine it as never to be privatised or sold off by and incoming Liberal Gov't, and start there.

Sounds like a subject for another post

cheers T2

Good evening to you THINKER 2...

I reckon you're absolutely correct in your summation, apropos coming from the 'wrong side of the track'. Further to your comment, I was listening to some erudite federal labour person being interviewed on ABC Radio last week. Amongst some of her remarks, I couldn't help but think of that famous line...'whatever it takes'. Originally coined by the former numbers man, Senator Richardson.

Anyway, that seems to be the established 'terms of engagement' between these two warring leaders.

Phrases like he's a good 'street fighter' et al - meant as a metaphor, I'm sure. Nevertheless, it does seem to illustrate most plainly the existing political atmosphere in Canberra these days.

Your phrase '...glad I'm getting old...' or similar, yes I do understand what you mean. I'm seventy years of age, and I worry too. Particularly as I witness the sustained disarray that's permeating throughout our federal parliament - Well, it would tend to worry anyone I believe. It most certainly does worry me, a lot.

I agonize too, about what's going to happen to this once great country of ours. I shouldn't I suppose, as I won't be around to see it's ultimate destruction.

Goodnight.

Hi o sung wu,

Just for the record brother is ex-feds, cousin is still serving as an instructor in the state mob here.

My brother always found protective duty pretty cushy, pulling weapons on a bunch of armed bikie members transporting cocaine pretty exciting, but walking down a footpath with a bloke's two kids at each side of him after executing a Family Court judgement to be absolutely terrifying, especially when he knew there were weapons in the house. Said the shoulder blades use to clench.

Thanks for confirming Pauline had something beguiling about her. I won't be so hard on the cousin.

I've been meaning to ask, I know Howard had a flak vest on for the speech in front of the shooters but were there any occasions that you know of where Keating also wore one?

Hi there CSTEELE...

Not to my knowledge, no. I can't recall of any occasion, in NSW at least, where Paul Keating ever had a need to be so protected. And you're perfectly correct in relation to John Howard wearing body armour. Interestingly though, J.H. originally declined the request.

It was then pointed out to him, the awful consequences to this country, if there was an attempt on the life of an incumbent Prime Minister. Thus he readily agreed - according to the 'scuttlebut' that went around about it ?

I agree totally with your kith n' kin's opinion CSTEELE, with respect to the hazards of 'close protection' work - in any protection work involving those with 'threat assessments' for that matter.

I later became a detective where generally speaking it posed far less of a risk, by merely making inquiries, than the former jobs I'd been hitherto tasked with.

True, we (detectives) did have our moments, but they usually quickly passed. And having done so, normality again resumed. I'm still in the vertical, and I've managed to reach seventy, so I've done OK I guess.

A comment I will make, and make it LOUDLY, the policing industry does take an awful toll on marriages. And in some cases, one's mental well-being too.

Enjoy your day CSTEELE.

I'm sure policing is a difficult with consequences for than just marriages o sung wu.

I'm in my late 50's and I guess I perceive in my lifetime, a change in the way we view each other. A change in values if you like. Not in religious or pious ways, if anything there has been a strengthening in these ways, when it comes to our political alternatives today.

It's hard to define the differences between them, other than tangent points, I mentioned one earlier, the NBN, clearly each party has a view on this. But as to the day to day thinking of the combatants, (and I'm assuming you meant Gillard and Abbott in your post), is very hard to determine.

Currently the electoral choices amount a case of (to use an old aussie vernacular) "same muck, different bucket" the question being "which one would be worse".

Perhaps we should have a poll that asks the question:

"which", of the two choices for PM would you least like to have running the country" ?.

Perhaps only then could we truly reflect the mood of the public and clearly define the question of trust or, comparative lack of trust in the 2 alternative choices for PM.

I think the question of leadership and Paul Keating, is resolved, and I repeat "ah those were the days".

But alas there are no Paul Keatings on the horizon in our political landscape today. No one born and bred of struggle and rebellion, with brains and balls, that couldn't be bought.

Without this sort of leader, Australian democracy can never be what it once was, a truly unique and pure form of the democratic model. With the social safety net for all.

Oh well thats gone now.

Dear thinker2,

I caught the second half of a repeat of an interview on Late Night Live between Bob Katter and Phillip Adams. I am about to sit down and listen to the podcast. What I heard was quite remarkable. If you enjoy characters in Australian politics, especially the authentic ones then from the bit I heard this is not to be missed.

Thanks csteele I'll check it out.

hey there o sung wu,

That's interesting you brought up Gareth Evans. What you've said gels with what I heard about him once from someone who has a friend who worked as a stewart on an airline who described him as a complete pig.