So our PM says we are in a position to become a super provider of global foods.

I say, 'pull the other one' as she forgets one very important issue, and that is that we have the highest low/unskilled wages in the world.

How are farmers going to be able to pay the wages.

The only way this would have any chance of succeeding, was if the government provided the staff at highly subsidized rates, along with other links in the food chain, like transport.

another motherhood statement.

Butch quit trying to rip money off of low payd workers. There is no such thing as unskilled, every body knows something.
Farm with your head instead of your back. No one uses a pick and shovel any more.
Food is a commodity that does not go out of fashion, so why not step up production and export more. There is a huge population base to our north so why not make it pay for AU

Well I'm not sure as to who is going to do all the work. The average
age of farmers in Aus is around 57 and they are not doing it for the
money, but in the past did it for the lifestyle. Young ones are
saying stuff farming, there are easier ways to make a living.

So as more and more farmers retire, things will become interesting.

Given that the price of grain is about the same as the price of
coal and given our high costs of production, I reckon that the
young ones will find it far easier to dig up coal rather then grow
crops for the world

Farms will be gigantic acreage's and listed on stock exchange. Head office will be in the city.

So what then for the communities that rely on the farmers and their families?

Do we want these smaller towns to become ghost towns ,hooked up with the latest the NBN has to offer, but no people there to use it.

Yet more evidence this was a wasteful venture. Another one.

Adding to what Yabby said, farmers were encouraged to better educate their kids. Problem is, once they became educated they soon realized what a poor choice, farming the land was.

They too are tipped to loose the diesel subsidy.

Perhaps the plan is for more imported cheap labor, to run the farms to grown the food.

Nothing would surprise me with Julia, in any case, who can trust anything she says.

*Farms will be gigantic acreage's and listed on stock exchange. Head office will be in the city.*

Its all been tried before, 579. Give it 10-15 years, by then
investors have lost their shirts and leave, tail between their legs.
But I grant you, more gullible investors do exist and city people
generally don't know a thing about farming. Enough pain helps
to teach them.

Farms controlled by an office still has to be farmed, the only difference is they get wages.
There's a sizable dairy farm here, 3,000 cows, they do not have any labor worries. Any-one who wants to milk a cow or have a working holiday can go there and work for free, and no wages. They milk 24 hours a day.

There ya go 579, a dairy farm is not a cropping farm. The second
largest cropping farm in WA, involving 100'000 acres, has just
gone bust. It will take them 3 days just to sell the machinery.

Large turnover does not equate to profit. Our super funds know that,
that is why its Chinese and Arabs buying land now, they don't know
how Australia works.

Alot of farmers now have to rely on backpackers to do the seeding
and harvesting, as no Aussies are putting their hands up. So just
imagine, a modern header with a 40ft front can cost around 800
thousand. The backpacker hits a rock or tree trying to drive it,
oops, 150k damage. Its ok 579, best your super fund just pays
it and takes it from your account.

The National Farmers' Federation (NFF) has released -
"Farm Facts 2012," which shows that agriculture continues
to grow both its food and fibre production and its
contribution to Australia's economy.

It shows that agriculture may be a small industry - but
that its "punching above its weight."

Some of the facts given were that - Australian farmers
produce 93 per cent of Australia's daily domestic food supply
and that the average Australian farmer grows enough food to
feed 600 people. 150 at home and 450 abroad.

Apparently in 2010-11 alone - Australia's farm exports earned
the country $32.5 billion. Up $400 milion in 2 years.
And the gross value of Australian farm production at
farm gate in 2009-10 was $48.7 billion - up a massive $600,000
million in just one year.

The fact sheet stated that:

"Sure challenges like the declining number of farm businesses
in Australia, the increase in the average age of Australian
farmers to 52 (12 years above the national average of other
occupations), and the labour shortage that the industry faces
with many people having left the sector make things difficult.
Plus the challenge of increasing productivity enough to meet
the growing global demand for food and fibre."

The UN estimates that production will need to increase by
70 per cent by 2050 in order to meet the world population need.

However, that is why increased investment in Research and
Development for Australian agriculture is critical, to ensure that
our farmers can achieve this great task. The government is on
the right track.

Rechtub gets a bit negative.
Yes the average age of farmers is 57.
But too cropping farms given rain are getting much bigger and bring bigger crops per acre, in good seasons.
NZ and us are getting concerned about Chinese ownership, but food growth will increase there too.
Governments once subsidized farmers, still do in bad times.
A day may return that reduces or even dumps tax on all farm fuels, it should be considered now.
But we produce a great deal more than we can eat now cattle sheep pork? well not worth it at todays prices for imports.
I see no reason ,not any, to fear our continued growth in producing.
Its the selling, of wheat say, this harvest, that concerns me.

I'm a city boy, so help me out here.

What's a "farm"?

duh... it's where they grow aceutical products for chemist shops.

579,when you are talking about a heard of cows, they are milked morning and night, 365 days of the years.

Now 3000 will require a huge plant and many regular, reliable staff. Simply turning up cause one feels like it, won't work.

As for company owned farms needing workers, that's not the point.

Some companies have purchased multiple farms and displaced the farming families in the process, this is why many communities suffer from this style of farming.

There is a lot more at stake in these regions than just the farm.

Another modern day farming problem is 'feast or fathem', whereby many farmers either make a fortune from a crop, or, it fails.

Farmers in the past, especially the Italians, would often share the workload, however, with IR laws,potential liability and duty of care issues, this is less popular, so more staff are often required, placing more importance on the crops success, as modern day farming wages have to come from borrowing or savings, not from cash flow.

The simple fact is, the risks are getting higher and to suggest taking away thier desiel subsidy may hurt more than the government thinks,as many farmers don't have cash flow.

An increasing number of farms are contract farming, planting and harvest are done by contractors. This eliminates every farm having the same equipment. Bigger farms do make cense, you are less likely to be decimated by drought if you have a farm in NSW and another in SA.
3,000 cows are a lot, with very little handling, the rotary dairy milks 150 cows at a time. It's a self serve dairy where only cows that are due to be milked are allowed access. Each cow has a micro chip in the neck, this is read and either accepted or rejected by the movement of gates.
This stops cows trying to get an extra ration of goodies

*Bigger farms do make cense, you are less likely to be decimated by drought if you have a farm in NSW and another in SA.*

Yeah but its not going to help your business model. The business
might not go bust due to diversification, but if its not generating
a profit, there is no point investing peoples superannuation money
or any other money into it.

Today you can run a dairy with little labour, with computerised
dairies. The cows come and go as they please, 24/7, their production
is linked to the size of their ration, all automatically. So
you can produce milk in Australia. The problem is to do it
profitably, because that milk has to be processed into cheese or
milk powder for global markets. You only need for China to stop
buying milk powder and the whole thing collapses.

The problem in Australia is the cost of processing those farm products
is amongst the highest in the world. Not only do those milk factory
workers etc have some of the world's highest wages and cushy benefits,
now we are looking at extra costs due to the carbon tax on electricity,
which is a huge cost for both farmers and processors.
But its not just electricity, its all sorts of extra nails being
knocked in to the coffin. Red tape costs, 12% super, etc, fuel
tax, increased AQIS charges, all the way from production until its
on a ship. So when you work it all out, it makes far more sense
to invest in dairy in say NZ then in Australia.

The problem in Australia is not growing things, its doing it profitably
given the huge cost loadings of a mollycoddled society.

Farmers owe something like 59 billion$. The only thing that forces
them to keep going, is the vain hope of digging themselves out of
the hole that they are in. For in say WA, when it comes to trying
to sell the farm to get out, there is nobody there to buy, as
banks won't lend them the money to buy an unprofitable business.

This large dairy has had some problems with certain times of the year the cows would get to much onion grass. The milk has had to be blended with milk from other areas. They get hoards of people going out there for a look. You put $2 in a machine and it allows you through to a viewing platform. Coke can dispensers and hot pies for a fee.
The only way to compete with AU's wage structure is to get smarter.
More mechanism and machinery that does not sleep.
Diversification, to spread the risk factor.
If miners can have driverless trucks, so can farmers.
Set your header in motion, go to bed, and then try and find your header the next day. And there it is in the shed having a rest.

*If miners can have driverless trucks, so can farmers*

Ah 579, you clearly arn't much good at running a business. The
innovation has to be paid for by the product produced. If the
numbers don't stack up, you don't have a business. With grain worth
no more then coal, best you mine coal.

The best thing that I ever did, was only to buy enough land for the
lifestyle, but not invest further in agriculture. Investing in
mining, banking and industries which have a local dominance, has
been far more profitable then investing in farming. All those farmers
who bought more land, are on the debt spiral and don't know how
to get off it.

What Australia has to do is get real. No more paying public servants
800k$ a year, bring house prices back to values where people can
afford them. The rest of the country has to live in the real world
too, because the the merino wheels fell off the cart long ago,
when the mining wheels fall off the cart, its going to be one tough
landing.

Come on Yabby. I am giving you driverless farm equipment, gigantic diversified acreage and it's still no good.
You had better get a horse to pull your single furrow plough.
The miners have the wage system tied up, and poaching labor from industry.
Maybe the old farmers are stuck in the 50's and don't know how to get out of it.
House prices are set by the market, and with the mining wages that will continue.

Australian truck drivers claim we will starve without them, A not unexpected claim from a group of middle aged kids.
They them selves named the Hume highway, their play ground Sesame Street.
Farmers are changing.
And for the better, price will always be the first problem, not production.
Given the price we could sell a great deal more beef than we do now, subject to the vegetarians not manufacturing problems.
Sugar cane too, only the price stops thousands of more acres being grown.
Our grains are some of the worlds best and we grow much more than we can use.
I can not get my head around including milk in this debate.
We keep changing the goal posts with it.
We are too, not close except in Victoria, to producing the quality and quantity that NZ is.
Once on the north coast of NSW family's made their own butter and cheese from milk and sold the cream ,often one tin, but managed to live.
Not all that long ago deregulation hurt farmers badly, took many away from the land.
By invitation my union went on bus tours trying to help.
Right now chain stores interested in other than profit pitch state farmers against each other.
The thought this country can not become a bigger player is uninformed.
If the world needs it, and will pay for it, just like the $12 Bananas we can get it.

579, one of our biggest challenges moving forward, will be providing jobs for all who want, or can, work.

Replacing man power with machines is one way to increase profits, but what then for the out of work people.

This is where collective governments have got it wrong, they shoukd reward businesses for employing people and punish them for investing in high tech plant.

Unfortunately, it's the other way round.

Today, tomorrow, even five years from now is not where the focus should be, rather, we should be focusing on twenty years down the track. God only knows where the jobs will come from then.

How on earth we can even consider being a food super provider is beyond belief.

*Come on Yabby. I am giving you driverless farm equipment, gigantic diversified acreage and it's still no good.*

579, any business is no good, if it does not make a profit. We
could of course simply waste your super to do these things, but that
is hardly good business, more like ripping you off.

Fact is farm machinery sits in the shed for 10 months of the year,
unlike mining machinery which works 24/7 all year round. What sends
alot of farmers broke, is too much investment in machinery.

Once again, the numbers have to stack up, or its not worth doing.
Put it in the bank, you'll at least keep up with inflation after
tax.

*The miners have the wage system tied up, and poaching labor from industry.*

The miners don't pay public servants 800 grand. The miners don't
insist on double time and a half, the miners employ a tiny fraction
of the population.

*House prices are set by the market*

The market adjusts to tax policy and Govt regulation. Fact is you
can build yourself a million dollar mansion, all tax free. Your
house rise in value, all tax free. So that is what people do, pushing
up house prices. That is far better then cash in the bank, where
you pay tax on the inflation loss. Result we have some of the world's
most expensive houses, which your average worker cannot afford.

Why is it beyond belief.
There's plenty of people to feed and it's a renewable product.
The case with machinery replacing people is as old as time, and always will be. Hasn't caused any problem so far, that is why jobs are created.
The miners are giving train drivers away also, driverless trains can travel non stop day and night.
The future will still be there no-matter who gets replaced by a machine.
With UHT milk it can go anywhere and be stored for months.
Yabby is not sure and Butch is worried about nothing.
GPS has not yet found it's full potential.

*There's plenty of people to feed and it's a renewable product.*

Well that is exactly why people like yourself are confused, 579.
For the devil is always in the details of course and you don't
understand those.

There are plenty of people starving every day, babies going hungry
every day. If they cannot afford to buy the food that we produce,
its not much good to them or to us.

Given that our wages and costs are amongst the highest in the world,
the numbers don't stack up and if the numbers don't stack up,
its not a business.

Its showing up all around now. JBS are saying it costs them twice
as much to slaughter a cow here, compared to the US. Rio are saying
it costs them twice as much to mine here as elsewhere. This is all
a virtual repeat of 30 years ago, when iron ore and coal took off on
the back of Japanese manufacturing. It lasted for some years, but
quietly the Japanese encouraged Brazil to mine iron ore and coal
else where. Prices eventually came crashing down, as supply caught
up with demand. The same will happen this time, its just a question
of when. Already Rio are looking at cancelling a new coal mine,
the numbers don't stack up.

Belly, food has always been a product that can be substituted for a cheaper brand, or, an alternative product.
when bananas hit $12 per kilo, as you suggest, the volume sold is a mere fraction of usual volumes, mainly because the consume finds an alternative.

When farm hand wages hit the $45 per hour mark, S will hit the fan, as consumers will be buying far more cheaper imports.

The fact of the matter is, that unless there is a huge change to the costs of farming here, including consumables and wages, we can never become competitive supplier on the global market.

In fact, our beef industries days are numbered, as the likes of Argintina and Brazil are going to take a lot of our market.

Our heard is about 20 million, these two have about ten times that and are much closer to the customer.

As I have suggested before, we are kidding ourselves.

You will pay for quality, Pilbara is the richest iron ore body ever found.
Innovation is the tool for farming. There is not much hope of wages being diluted, you would not get any labour at all. So you will have to cope with that.
You can't have miners on mega bucks and farm hands on pittance.
The US wage structure is different from AU. To hard to compare.
The dressing rate for sheep is 80 / butcher / day. The dressing rate for cattle is 16 up to 600 kg / butcher / day and anything over 600 kg is 2 for one

*So you will have to cope with that.*

Well yes 579, just don't invest in farming, invest your money
elsewhere. So your magic food producers for the world, won't happen.

Farming is already extremely innovative. But if workers are making
a fortune and farmers are doing dough, then you have exactly what
we have now, young people telling their parents to stick the farm,
they are off to the mines or the city.

You want workers to have every cushy benefit imaginable, but farmers
are meant to keep investing to create your food production nirvana,
where everyone benefits, except the farmer. It ain't gonna happen.

What is happening right now is that farmers are mortgaged to the
roof and banks won't let them increase borrowings, unless they can
show that it will be profitable. In alot of cases they can't,
so they won't be lent the money.

The numbers have to stack up, 579. If I told you that you that there
was work for you, but you'd only get paid in years where the weather
was ok and I'd pay you less then other workers, you might not want
the job. Alot of farmers are only there, to try and preserve what
they have after a lifetimes work, which is commonly a whole lot
of debt, with nobody but foreigners wanting to buy the land. So
more and more of it will be sold to the Chinese and the Arabs. Let
them wear the losses, when they twig as to how the system works

Lexi,
You said, "The UN estimates that production will need to increase by
70 per cent by 2050 in order to meet the world population need".

That being correct, I want to know how we are to improve production to become a super food power? Expect R & D to do the job? NO way!
We are utilizing very nearly all the productive land in Aus right now. Drive around western parts and see the crops now grown on very marginal land. Road trip to WA will surprize in just how far west crops are grown, cross the Nullabor, and how far East the WA farmers crop. Am informed these farmers get a good crop once every 9 years. Big gamble for them and shows the extent of marginal farming now. Continued urban expansion is covering much of good productive land.

The world needs action now to reduce the population or millions more will starve. Where is the extra production to come from and at what price. If the climate alarmists are right maybe Russia and Canada will be able to open up more land for farming, that is now frozen. Care to bet on that anyone? Do not forget the oceans fish stocks are being depleted as well.

Future does not look good for many.

Butch and Yabby,
Good luck with educating 579, it is a lost cause, There are none so blind as those that will not see.

I've got a few acres. I looked at how little people doing useful things, like growing food, were making. You'd have to be an idiot.

If you want a decent return you have to do something totally useless, like I did.

I grew advanced shrubs, & a a few other pretties for the building industry wanting instant gardens in their developments, charged silly prices, because they were the best, & made a small quid. Certainly no fortune, but better than those fools growing food.

I don't think hobby farmers were made to make money.
Try growing baked beans, spaghetti, or loaves of bread.
When you simply give up and say this or that won't work, it's time to get out of the way.

*When you simply give up and say this or that won't work, it's time to get out of the way.*

Its not about giving up, 579, its about being able to use a calculator and not letting emotion interfere with clear rational
thought. Its why they pay some managers so well, some can do it,
a great deal cannot.

I am all for innovation, all for change, but also all for not
kidding oneself, as you seem to think is required. I have complete
analysis here, done over many years over many farms, the numbers are
enlightening. The only thing that really is worth doing is owning
land if you buy it right, for it will slowly creep up in value and
at least keep up with inflation. Let some other bugger take the
risk of growing food on it and invest that capital elsewhere, like
bank shares, where its more profitable and less risk involved.

Prime farmland in QLD has gone from about $400 per acre, to $2000+ per acre in less than ten years.

What this means in simple terms is, that unless you have owned your land for decades, or, you have inherited it, you don't stand a chance, as the returns on farming are simply not consistent enough to risk borrowing the millions on needs to have a sustainable farm.

Meanwhile, urban sprall continues to swallow up prime land and, that land that is not developed becomes even more cost prohibitive.

I am afraid, as they say, the writing is on the wall.

I am truly quite amused by the thought we are doomed.
It is true that poem.
We see yabby, quite rightly defending the banks rights to make a profit.
But join in with Rechtub is giving us that poem over and again.
INNOVATION! farming is no longer bib and brace overalls and a hay fork.
We are in safe hands wheat and grains are if the price is right and weather growing every year.
As is the case find a need we can fill it.
Let us not forget when talking about tax's.
We support the land with interest free loans and more after flood fire storm , and try to remember it costs us.
Yes the big two rip farmers and consumers deeply.
But what else? socialize? surely not.
Government owned shops? no.
Rechtub you probably sold your left thumb ten thousand times when measuring the chops just press harder!

*But join in with Rechtub is giving us that poem over and again.*

I'm not giving you that poem, Belly. I am simply pointing out
some statistical realities, taken from some of the most innovative
broadacre farms in Australia. Bankwest assemble the largest and
most comprehensive farm business report in Australia and I have
a copy of their latest one, right here.

Over 6 years, various districts etc, average return on capital
was a bit over 1%. So what I am pointing out, its pointless for
farmers to go and borrow money at 9% and earn 1%, so losing money.

If you want your farming nirvana, best we use your super fund and
579s super fund money, as you clearly won't mind a 1% return every
year.

I see no one else is prepared to comment on the UN forecast that we need to increase food production by 70% to feed the population in 2050.

Putting your heads in the sand and simply accusing Butch and Yabby of Hanrahan's doomsday sayings is hardly constructive comment.

It is also strange that those that willingly accept the UNs, now much discredited predictions, on global warming are quite happy to ignore the UN forecasts on food production.

Belly, I am a bit surprized, you are a practical bloke and an avid gardener, how do we increase food production by 70% in 38 years?

Or do we just accept that millions will starve.

Maybe you think the PM is right that we will become a food superpower and able to feed the world and get paid for it. I would like to know how we do that. Farmers have always been innovative and gamblers so are willing to experiment with new production methods.

Banyo, I would suggestbthat the reason why so may go without regular food, is due to not having enough money. How do you suggest we fix that problem?

Producing more food is only a portion of the problem. Getting it to where it's needed is the real problem.

There is plentry of food wasted, it's just too hard, too expensive, or too risky to get it to where it is needed.

I have said for years that if governmets provided a guarantee to farmers, whereby they guarantee to get their costs back, where the sell price is less than production, a common problem, then, this food, most of which is left to rot in the paddock, could be sent to the needy, as part of our foriegn aid.

Butch,
I do not think we will come anywhere near the food production required, let alone the additional problems you correctly identify.

No doubt countries such as Aus will donate much to those in need, however there will still be waste of perishable food that cannot be delivered. Where is the government to get the money to pay farmers for the surplus that is now wasted.

I have friends in Sydney who's kids raised Guineia Pigs and they went and collected the discards from their greengrocer each afternoon. the ammount thrown out is unbelieveable. Small blemishes on a few meant the whole box was thrown as unsaleable.

You are right the food waste here is incredible, but how to get that to those in need. The amount of bread thrown daily is astounding.

Our economy is such that this food cannot be utilized. more the pity.

When I was young the local pig farmers used to collect the slops from cafes, etc. but no more. Health reasons were used to stop that.

Our waste is getting a huge problem. I hate wasting food or other material that can be utilized.

rehctub,
Said "I have said for years that if governmets provided a guarantee to farmers, whereby they guarantee to get their costs back, where the sell price is less than production, a common problem, then, this food, most of which is left to rot in the paddock, could be sent to the needy, as part of our foriegn aid."

Governments once had quota system to ensure supply on some foods with quaranteed prices but they removed the system to open markets and lower prices which closed most quota farms.

Banyo, the costs associated with the food for aid has to come from the foreign aid budget.

After all, a shipment of perishables are far less attractive to the dictators who are often the main beneficiaries of some of our foreign aid, when we send money.

But, the reality remains, how are we going to be able to afford to grow the food?

Furthermore, we may not have the skilled farmers in the future, given the average age is 57.

The thread suffers as this country does from the negativity that has covered much as a result of hung Parliaments and failed politicians.
Changing government, the coming rejection of the ALP will not change that.
But time will.
Both sides,and the world pursues wealth creation.
With the basic belief wealth creates jobs hence it is good.
We will continue,as we always have, post stump jump plow and new wheat variety's, be a world player in food.
yabby surely you above all know,in my life time we have seen changes on the land so big it is stunning.
If I was 20,I would go and live my dream, on the land.
Start with sheep, but be able to follow my thoughts on what was the best investment.
we are a player, we can look for things in the way but not ignore our ability to change and innovate.
Yabby you will tell me how sheep are difficult.
If you could offer a whole boxed frozen carcase at a price in east coast distribution centers I could sell twice what you could get your hands on to mums and dads directly.

Belly old mate, this is not about you flogging some carcasses to
your friends, this is about the big picture. Fact is that no matter
how many lambs or mutton that Australia eats, a large % of them still
need to be exported. Right now some meatworks here are working
three days a week, because they simply can't sell any more on
international markets, at a price that does not lose them money.

So it is our cost structure that is the problem, if buyers cannot
buy the meat that we produce. What do our politicians do? They
keep knocking more nails into the production coffin, one by one,
here, there and everywhere. AQIS charges up 40%. Electricity up
due to the carbon tax, its used in everything, locals pass it on.
Big trucks to pay another 200 million a year in charges. Again,
every export product wears it. 12% super, more charges going up.
The list goes on and on.

The amusing thing about this is that sheep numbers are at an all time
low in Australia and the bureaucrats have been yelling out that
we need to increase numbers urgently! Yet right now they can't even
sell the meat that we produce, the freezers are chock a block.

You are not the first bloke to think that he can somehow make a go
of it and would become a farmer if he could. That optimism is in
fact what keeps farming going, or most would have given up long ago,
not just all those forced out. But the numbers are clear. Farming
is a great lifestyle, but its a mugs game financially, so inceasing
investment whilst losing more money, is all about emotion dominating
any financial reason.

Sheep numbers do need increasing badly. $ 150 each live, no wonder you cant sell a chop.
You can't change the wage structure, so come up with other means, don't just say it's doomsday.

Belly, 579.
I'm still waiting to hear from you how we are to increase food production by 70% to meet demand in 2050. It has to be economicly viable or it will not be achieved.

Sure the demand will be there but will the potential buyers have enough money to pay. The pics coming from Africa and Asia do not suggest they will have the money to buy.

So just how are we to become a food superpower. China is currently buying farmland here and in Africa with the obvious intention of looking after their own needs.

One scheme I heard of is to harvest vast amounts of seaweed, grind it up and flavour it, to feed the masses. The cost of specially designed ships or the transport costs were not accounted for.

I think we had better start mass distribution of the 'pill' to reduce the number of mouths. Education in family planning has to be the only way to go.

*Sheep numbers do need increasing badly. $ 150 each live, no wonder you cant sell a chop.*

579, just for your interest, I looked up this week's MLA lamb
indicator price for trade lambs, which is what the local market
buys. Its 441c/kg cwt. So an 18 kg carcass lamb is worth 79.38
in the saleyard. Take out 5% agents fees, that is 4$. Freight say
3$. Yard fees, 40c, another Dollar for the MLA lamb levy. So the
farmer lands up with a little over 70$, hardly worth jumping
hoops over. Yet they still can't sell them on the overseas market.

So much for increasing lamb production. We'd be back to disaster
prices, which is why so many farmers baled out of sheep in the
first place.

Banjo consider this before saying it is not a fair comparison.
How much has our food production increased in the last 58 years.
I think your target was 2070?
With new technology's we will walk it in.
Yabby, think big mate.
I do not have than many Friends,cut a sheep up, put 10% on price paid at exporter.
Send east in bulk, to one central spot/warehouse.
Quote a pick up price, and empty the store.
Mutton is off my shopping lists,except of cuts mostly fat,as dog food.
Come to think of it box that too send it along and watch it go.
oil seed and grain crops, remember we are talking bulk not prices, will do well this year.
We will be a superpower in these and other crops.

Africa is growing algae as food, contains everything needed to sustain life.
Algae pills are here as supplements.
$ 42 / kg for lamb loin chops, someone is ripping me off, not that i bye them.
Look outside the square, you might find something.

A prime lamb cost $6.50 Kg at the butchers back door. 25 Kg @6.5 =$162.50

Legs, 6 kg @$11=$66.00 loin chops 2.5 kg@$26 =$65.00, 16 cutlets @&3.00 each $48.00' 3kg BBQ chops @11.00kg =$33.00 chump chops 1.5kg @$21.00 =$31.50, 2 shanks @$4.00 =$8.00, 1 neck @$4.00, trim 5kg @$8.00 =$40.00, the rest is waste.

So that's a total of $292.50

So that's a gross margin of 80%, or a gross profit return f 44%, which in today's retail market is skinny.

And people say lamb is becommimg to expensive to buy.

The whole problem with the food industry today is that both the producer and the retailer are loosing out.

The handling agents, the delivery drivers, even to sales staff are get paid, but the consume demands a better deal, therefore, someone has to take a hit, amd in most cases it's these two, the first and last in the supply chain.

*Send east in bulk, to one central spot/warehouse.
Quote a pick up price, and empty the store.*

You could do exactly the same, Belly. Buy them in the saleyard,
find an abattoir, find a boning room, find a chilled warehouse,
find customers. No need to transport lambs from WA.

Me, I have a bit over 400 left from last season, in the feedlot
paddock. I mixed up another 10 tonnes of grain and minerals for
them today. I actually enjoy watching them play little games,
jump over the water trough and munch to their hearts content.
No need to tell them that lamb heaven awaits on the 12th June.
I'm actually always sad to see them go, for some reason, but
reality is reality. I enjoy seeing animals lead happy lives.

Then on July 2nd its off to the back specialist to see if he
can patch me up. The neighbours are putting in my crop.

Yabby during the drought 3 of us went and bought home 70 lambs.
Killed them illegal in the back paddock of a farm.
Not one was sold on .
The group still exists, and is bigger buying cattle and pigs too.
Been home killing all my life,but cutting meat out so dropped out.
I remember one mass exporter of lamb/mutton, not sure if he is still around.
But drifting here and my fault, we can eat more produce more and it can be done , but the thread is about increased productivity not consuming.
Yabby if its not possible to make a quid why are you involved.
And if the world runs short will prices not rise with demand

*Yabby if its not possible to make a quid why are you involved.*

Belly, I got involved in farming in the 70s, purely for the
lifestyle. I hated big cities and loved animals, did not want to
spend my life in an office, wearing a tie. I could have been
a banker, but it was not my passion.

When I started it was very small, all the local farmers predicted
that I would go broke in a year. But I never did :) However
I was fully aware that farming is a mugs game financially,
which it is in Australia.That is why two thirds of the farmers
who were here when I started, have now quit.The rest mostly have
debts up to their eyeballs.

Productivity in agriculture has been amazing over the last
30 years, but the more productive farmers become, the more
those gains are eaten up by city slickers increasing costs
and lowering prices. Agriculture is milked for all that
it is worth, so its not farmers who benefit from all that
productivity, but city people.

Farmers would actually be better off only producing half
as much, then traders would be forced to pay them better
prices. For right now, the more that farmers produce, the
less they are paid.

But few farmers have that choice, as they are hocked to
the roof and have to meet that next interest payment,
so have to keep peddling as fast as they can to survive.

So my point is simply this: Farming is a great lifestyle
as long as you don't depend on it for a living. Invest
off farm and you will do far better then your returns
from farming. You can then have the best of both worlds.

In other words, I am far better off owning bank shares then
I would be, if I borrowed money from the bank for the next
you beaut farming venture.

Belly,
The UN estimates that we need to improve food productivity by 70% to meet demand in 2050.

That means Aus must do that if our share is to be maintained. Wheat and meat are the two main rural products.

Rely on research and developement? Your kidding. Yabby could probably tell you how much wheat yields, per acre, could be improved, but we are farming all the area we can now and much of that is marginal.

In relation to livestock. I have some experience here and let me tell you carrying capacity has not increased in 30 years. On top of this deduct all the productive land now under houses, bitumen and concrete. Then deduct all the hobby farms that now run non producing animals like horses, alpaccas. These were once producing wool and meat but not now. Some are even growing grapes and olives. Hardly food.

So I do not see how we can come any where near being a food superpower by 2050. Then the viability of farming is being constantly reduced.

Yabby ok I am aware to some extent that is the case.
Had I not twice left jobs because of pride I would be on about 350 acres for much the same dream.
Banjo, think you miss the point, 56 years ago, the time in front of us to increase productivity.
Wheat was near it, sheep, wool not, a lot more.
We produced more but usually only those marketing it, spuds peas beans a lot more made a shilling out of it.
Oil seeds now are not just butter substitutes.
And booming.
No matter who rules farmers will be growing great deals more, possibly for fuel.
Broad acre farms had not much of todays potential.
And haveing worked, even as a kid, on market gardens I never thought I would see 50 acres or even 100,s of cabbages and lettuce.
We all ways, will increase productivity in food while we can sell it.
Yabby I am not in a city but not truly in farm land bush, but do understand you view shared it all my life.

A lot will depend on where our dollar sits in line with the US and Eruo, as it is our high exchange rates that is a large contributor in the current downturn.

Furthermore, with Australia seeming to want to be the global forerunner in what are anti competitive taxes, there is a better than average chance we will become less attractive, as a trading option when it comes to our high logistics prices for our perishables.

In any case, unless the AU government of the day intends to heavily subsidize all areas of food production, from farming costs, to handling, to logistics, there is little chance we can become AN AFFORDABLE food super provider.

You can grow what ever you like, but if it is unaffordable, what's the use.

Now any farmer will tell you that.

The other issue facing government, should they choose that directional option, is where will they find the money, as blind Freddie knows our revenue steams are fast becoming outdated.

It is for this reason that I suspect the likes of China are busy buying our prime farm land, as they know, that we won't be able to afford to farm it, but they will as they don't have regards for thier staff like we do, as thier moto is, work or starve.

With the sort of attitude demonstrated by Butch it may be just as well China is buying farm land here. China will be obliged to pay the going rate like anyone else, any export from AU is export $, it don't matter who owns the land.
Butch is hell-bent on taking money from farm labour, which will never happen. It used to be butcher shop labour, now it's farm labor.
Innovation is what it's all about, not giving up.

579, if you seriously think the Chineese are going to farm the land they have acquired, using our labor, you are dilutional.

Our governments can't even stop them buying the land in the first place, how can we control whatbthey do with it.

In any case, the whole problem with providing food for the masses is affordability.

I would suggest the main reason so many go without today is due to costs.

Are you seriously going to sit there and tell me thus is going to change because of innovation.

Innovation has made it possible to fly live fish to hong kong, but it does not mean the poor people there can afford to eat live fish.

I can tell you now, the only way we could become a super provider of food is for someone else to grow, harvest and transport it, with slave labour.

Now I don't support this, but there will simply be no other viable way, but if you know of one, by all means educate me.

BTW, simply stating that innovation will fix the problem is not the answer, it is merely a suggestion, hoping for a mericle.

Just remember, almost every input cost is about to rise. Are you suggestimg the farmers etc should exhaub these increases, just so we can provide for the masses.

579, cute habit you have developed.
Debating with a brick wall.
My mate Rechtub, I again honor your dad butcher, is quite incapable of understanding our side of things.
Anti every thing,except the Broncos,sorry about that bloke.
See the unions you dislike so much.
For the sake of equity,and in protection of Australian wages.
Will ensure the wages paid are Representative of ours.
Point two,while mining takes place,for hundreds, of years, no worker will willingly work for wages not Representative of ours.
OH unless Tony brings back work choices, imported slaves is even a possibility then,

No one is going to fly fish anywhere, if it is for nothing, get that out of your head for a start.
You are in the wrong country for slave labour, everyone is entitled to livable wages, no matter what sort of job they have.
The wages of miners is what is out of sinc with the rest of the country. They are advertising here for anyone with a heart beat to apply.
Mr's Macs pies $ 7.80 in Karatha WA.
We are not about to starve any time soon, so take it easy and stay out of the hot sun.

You problem 579, is that you are seeing Australia through the eyes
of a bubble, which may just pop sometime, anytime really. Mining
companies are pouring money into new projects, as that makes more
sense then paying it in tax. But as we saw during the GFC, if prices
come down, they will be the first to cancel or delay projects,
bringing mining back to reality.

At the moment our bubble depends on the China bubble. Every bubble
that I have ever known, pops at some stage, so when it does, how
many other jobs will be left, which were destroyed during the
bubble? Next you will be crying when people can't pay their
mortgage. We'll only have ourselves to blame.

Already Rio, BHP and others are running their pencils over proposed
coal projects and talking of putting them on the backburner. When
alot more of the mining industry does the same, the tears will start.

As Kohler pointed out on Business Insider this morning, five of
Australia's cities are amongst the most expensive 15 in the world.
We can only kid ourselves for so long, eventually reality returns.

Belly and 579, you are well aware I am not opposed to a decent wage, however, I don't support high low skilled wages, neve have.

If don't gain the skills, the. Work more hours, it's that simple.

Having said that, this whole thread (once again) is about affordability, nothing more.

Sure, you both suppor inovation in the workplace, in this case, a farm, but just remember, the more automated farmers become, the less staff they require.

So in essense, you are proposing to shoot yourselves in the foot, so as to say.

Another point, if the food was grown for free, it would still be unaffordable for many, due to all the on costs and fees.

Quite simply, we can't become a food 'super power' without some radical changes in how we operate as a nation.

Now as for us stopping China from growing their own food her, using their own labor, dream on!

They are fast becoming a global force as they are taking larger stakes in many countries and they out number us about 100 to 1.

As the world becomes more dependent on them, for resources etc, I would suggest if they say jump we will have little choice but to say, how high.