I think the Independants will cave in soon because they are being severely tarnished by the Labor debacle.Tony Windsor is the chief suspect and will be trying to swing deals with the Coalition to secure his own position and power.

Windsor may try to make himself look the hero and save his seat by bringing on an election but what price will we pay with the deals he will try to swing with Abbott?

I just don't trust any of them.

Arjay,

I don't share your optimism. A new election will put both Windsor and Oakeshott into the unemployment queue, and for these two who happily sold out their electorates, self interest trumps the right thing any day.

Never going to happen ever

Windsor and Oakeshott having trashed democracy are happier to go down in history with the worse ever Government in Australia. They need to sure up their pensions. The sickening thing is that they claimed this would be a new era of open and accountable Government. One word - hypocrisy!

runner trashed DEMOCRACY?
I question you on that statement, tell me how two independents trashed democracy.
Above all sorry but you leave little ground for questions re your understanding of politics.

'runner trashed DEMOCRACY? '

Surely Belly your memory is not so short as to know that these men were elected as Independants to represent their electorates. Their hatred for Abbott and the National party led them to poo on those they represented (conservative voters) and vote in favour of a tax the PM promised not to have. They put their egos in front of the electorate and now must hold on just as much as Gillard because they know their electorates are waiting with baseball bats.

I happen to find both Rod Oakeshott and Tony Windsor to be quite principled gentlemen who put the majority of our politicians to shame. They have made decisions in the interest of the country and committed themselves to agreements made in good faith. They could have been a hugely divisive factor but I give them full credit for attempting to provide stability which was what was needed and wanted by the Australian electorate.

If, with the same kind of thoughtful contemplation exhibited after the election, they felt they could no longer support the Gillard government I would live with their decision.

I think some of the posters here wouldn't recognise a principled politician if they fell over one. Neither Gillard nor Abbott fit the description. I know the independents will have a tough time surviving the Murdoch press and the other attack dogs but perhaps there will be some recognition in latter years of their efforts.

Just imagine our Senate filled with men and women of this caliber, it is the way it was originally designed but the corrosion of party politics has done its work. We can only dream.

csteele ,Oakshot to me is a dill.I don't think there are many principled pollies today.They all do deals to secure their power bases.

To me their only chance for survival is to divorce themselves from Labor and the carbon tax.

I cannot see this debacle going on for another 12 mths.Something or someone has to let the people have a say."There will be no carbon tax under the Govt I lead."

Oh come on Arjay,

Of the two is he less substantive than Windsor? Probably, but still streets ahead of most of the rest. He turned down the Regional Affairs Ministry, one that he and Windsor had Gillard create to better serve the bush. That decision alone cost him $100,000 a year along with the power that accompanies the position.

He left the National Party on a matter of principle but was obviously doing something right because he usually polls around 2/3rds of the primary vote. If you are that much of a dill you normally get found out, especially under the scrutiny of being an independent.

This is actually quite easy, if either Abbott of Gillard were to come up to you on the street and assure you “My word is my bond!” compared to either of the two independents doing the same who would you believe? If you said either of the former then I'm afraid the word 'dill' is being too kind.

Both these blokes have a bit of maverick about them which I like but they are also a cut above the rest and I tip my hat to them. They are my kind of politician and should they be celebrated by all Australian's. Though I don't put Katter in the same league I still have a bit of time for the bloke. I think his policies stink but that is different than saying his politics are on the nose. I feel there is a degree of respect between all three purely because there is something to respect.

Character! There was a time when most people knew it when they saw it, not any more it seems.

Obviously c steel, you don't live in one of their electorates, cause if you did, you would, as was said before, be waiting with a base ball bat for the next election.

Just remember, these two are supporting our sitting government, one that is heading for a new LOW in the poles as they are on just 28%.

Put simply, 72%, or almost three out of every four don't support them, don't like them and most certainly, don't trust them.

These two ind are a disgrace.

They should have those words hanging on their fridge doors, HONEST AND ACCOUNTABLE, so they see them each and every day. But first, they need to learn what they mean.

Bring on the next election, my bat is at the ready.

Talk of Rudd being PM again soon; this may be trigger for independents to abandon Labor.

Dear rehctub,

How about hopping off the hobby horse for a moment and thinking this through.

The independents, after much deliberation, decided the Labour party was the most appropriate one to govern the country. If you recall Rob Oakeshott went to great lengths to relate to the Australian people why they went with Gillard. Although the press called it grandstanding I saw it as trying to be as open as possible.

They should be given credit for sticking to their agreement with the Australian people to provide as stable a government as possible through the period.

Lesser men may have withdrawn support over some of the less popular decisions made by Labour just to preserve their seats. These two have stuck by the commitments they made and when compared to the horse trading Abbott was prepared to do to gain power, or Gillard's sliding away from her promises to Wilke, these guys are to be admired.

I repeat, we would be far better off if there were a dozen of them.

Dear Chris Lewis,

My hope is that if in the unlikely event Rudd is gets up they will do as they have promised and deliberate in the same principled manner they did the first time. On their record thus far I’m prepared to trust their judgement.

Csteele,

You are subscribing too much virtue to Oakeshott and Windsor.

As an MP one has two main duties,
The first is to represent the views and desires of your electorate,
Where decisions and compromises are to be made, to act in the interests of your electorate.

As it was blindingly obvious in 2010 that Labor had very little support in their electorates, RO and TW obviously thought that a Labor minority government could be forced to pork barrel their electorates far more than the coalition, and that the projects and improvements would compensate the voters for acting against their desires.

In hindsight, this was a wildly stupid tactical move, as it painted them into a corner. If they supported a coalition government, and it collapsed, their support might be slightly dented, but they would survive. A collapse of the Gillard government would mean obliteration.

TW and RO are now have their backs against the wall. With recent polling indicating that their support has collapsed to 20% or lower, a fresh election means political oblivion. The question is whether they have the moral backbone to do the right thing and remove support for this noxious Labor government. I doubt it.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Firstly Oakeshott and Windsor were placed in a position very few MP's would ever find themselves, deciding which of the two major parties was the most likely to provide a stable government for all Australians, and for my mind they shouldered that task admirably. Having made that decision the commitment to ensure stability has been solid and the power they have has been used with restraint and honourably.

I contend less men would have put their electorates and their own interests ahead of the interests of the country. These two did not.

However they did score a few goals for regional Australia like a dedicated ministry and the setting up of a regional think tank.

Could I invite you to step away from your post and view it through other eyes. To me you seem to be saying these two should act in venal self interest to ensure “they would survive” instead of facing “obliteration” while finding ”the moral backbone” to withdraw support from the government against all the undertakings they have given.

Perhaps we might have conflicting views on what constitutes moral backbone.

Csteele,

"I contend less men would have put their electorates and their own interests ahead of the interests of the country. These two did not."

Firstly that is your opinion. Given Labor's performance on just about every issue, the voter support collapse, the need to depose a first term prime minister, and array of independents required to get any legislation through, I would struggle to see any validity in the claim of greater stability than the coalition. I see primarily self interest in their decisions.

Secondly, the moment that Gillard broke her "no carbon tax" promise in the first weeks, that should have given them a wake up call.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Basically you continue to tear strips off Julia Gillard for breaking her promise on the Carbon Tax and her undertakings to Wilke, yet you want Oakeshott and Windsor to commit the same crime, to go back on their word.

Don't worry, I'm absolutely positive if they had initially gone with Abbott the Labour supporters would have been equally vicious in attacking them as you seemed determined to be.

This is what is meant by politics twisting people's values, and why I generally loathe party politics, something I have in common with both independents.

Seriously, take a moment and think about it, don't you think Australia would be better served with a Senate filled with Windsors and Oakeshotts? I certainly do.

Csteele,

Agreements are not without limits and conditions. Labor has lied, back flipped and all but filled out TW and RO's pink slip for 2013. Given that in both seats Labor and the greens polled below 25% combined, and both are ex nationals, I doubt that their support of the coalition would have been a surprise.

With both polling below 20%, they are cooked whatever they do, the question is whether they have the backbone to put the worst government in decades out of its misery. Supporting Juliar is only in their own personal interests.

Csteel, you may recall that TW stated something to the tune of the libs would be better suited to govern, I don't remember why he went the other way.

In any case, a large part of thier thinking would have been based on the fact that Julia Gillard was a new face for labor and, that she had promised we would see 'the real julia'.

Well, I like many others dont know if this is in fact, the real Julia, but most agree, she is a shocker.

If these two ind were so close to choosing the libs, in favor of labor and, labor has turned so bad, and the libs improved so much, why then would they still be offering their support for Julia Gillard and labor, if they were in fact, true independents, as voted for by their electorates.

Food for though, don't you think.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Sorry mate you have totally lost me.

You claim it would be in the independent's best interest to ditch Labour for Abbott now you are saying they are only supporting Labour because it is in their best interest.

?

Dear rehctub,

You need tell me what action by this government should have warranted the independents withdrawing their support. Lack of popularity is hardly a reason to do so therefore what particular thing should have led them to take such a step?

csteele,anyone who backs this dysfunctional Labor debacle has totally lost me.They've done everything in their power to destroy our economy and sovereignty.Labor have betrayed their own people and they will suffer the consequences of this most callous and treacherous lie of collectivism being the solution to equality.

The Coalition at least want to abolish the carbon tax but I don't trust them either.They too pay homage to this notion of 'Collectivism'.

Csteele,

To simplify what I said previously:

RO and TW's support of Labor was a gamble that went really bad.

Their electorates are very conservative and the backlash has made them extremely unlikely to survive the next election.

Thus it is not in their own personal interests to abandon Juliar, and given their previous self interested actions I don't believe they will.

However, given the government's obvious poor performance, I suggested that it is clearly time for them to do the right thing and heed the wishes of their electorate.

No chance,not any, exists that those two independents, both elected as so twice or more, will turn on the government.
It can not be over looked, the dreadful National party was never going to beat either before Gillard.
Conservatives seats?
Yet Oakshots was held by a deputy PM who fled Parliament after getting too near the flame.

CS, lack of support is a huge issue, after all, without the numbers, a government can not claim office.

If a COE under performs, he/she faces the axe.

As for what have they done wrong, well, there is the lie about the carbon tax.

Now, there are those who suggest she didn't lie, as this is not a labor government in their own right.

However, There was at leas a level of deceit about the whole thing.

Then there was the back flip on Willki, remember, his vote was the crucial vote she needed to secure office.

There was the live export issue, that industry is still suffering.

There was the Slipper issue, an utter act of desperation ad, one of the motives was to assist in the back stabbing of Willki.

There was the set up on Abbott on Aust day.

We now have WS bracing us for bad news, this is after lying to the people about where our economy sits. Unfortunately, many are niece enough to have fallen for it.

I think that's enough, don't you?

ps. This all occurred in a year or less, not a life time!

I think some of the Independants will view the reality of being wiped off the map next year or have half a chance this year by siding with the majority of the electorate.

We cannot afford Labor to be in power for another 12mths.This will mean another $40 billion debt for us all and most of it will be wasted. $ 200 billion debt is close to $20,000 debt for every working person plus interest.This is what the carbon tax is all about.Big Socialist Govt that takes all and gives little back.

The Coalition are only marginally better.

Woodrow Wilson Cebter's China Environment Forum.A rather strange name for an environment center.

It was Woodrow Wilson who betrayed the US people in 1913 by signing away the right of Congress to own the people's currency.Woodrow Wilson enabled the monster called the US Federal Reserve,a private cartel of banks to express our productivity as debt.

China would no be too impressed with this name since is smacks of treachery.

cutting the defense budget and spending the billions on a non existant problem (Climate change department) shows how foolish and out of touch this Government is. No wonder most are embarassed to associate with them as they are in bed with the Greens.