http://www.infowars.com/fukushima-reactor-4-life-on-planet-earth-in-the-balance/ Japanese Diplomat Akio Matsumura says there is an urgent need to take total control away from Tepko in managing this disaster.Akio says Japan needs international help but the UN wants no no part of it.

Reactor No.4 which exploded still has over 1500 spent fuel rods.There are over a total of 11000 spent rods on this site.If reactor 4 goes again,it could cause the meltdown of all rods at this site.This would be 85 times worse than Chernobyl and would affect the entire planet.

Arnie Gunderson of Fairwinds http://www.fairewinds.com/ recently went to Tokyo which is 200 km from Fukushima.He took randmom soil samples and all these would be considered to be serious nuclear waste in the USA.Japanese officials have just increased the permissable radiation levels for humans in order to stop alarm and panic.

The full extent of this disaster will not be realised for decades to come.Elements such as caesium,strontium,plutonium and uranium stay in our environment for hundreds to millions of years and there is no way of cleaning it up.

Ajay....couldn't agree more with your words. The UN is right not to intervene for the very reason every country has there own full responsibility to govern this technology, "and use at your own risk" I thought it would have been a better title:)...but what of the world Ajay, and if its poisoned.....?.....there are NO second chances with material, so full agree with the UN,s decisions.

The Japan Government has failed to take the necessary actions with such a highly toxic substance and there on there own. They knew there was a fault line 200 or so miles offshore.....and they hadn't the insight to check out there geographical position.

Its like putting a plant on the shores of NZ....lol...wonder how that would of worked out:)

Like Ajay has pointed out, there is not such thing as safe when it comes to this subject.

I'd rather like up a candle than put up with a risk that doesnt need any more thought than that.

cc

Planet3,It was General Electric a US company that designed and built these reactors.Tepko and the Japanese Govt are in denial.There needs to be an international body that can provide the money and expertise to get this under control.

Part of the Japanese culture is this flawed notion of saving face at all costs and that means covering up the reality.

Let us also highlight, it was built badly, on fault lines, cover ups took place every inch of the way.
Unwise in the extreme to build there, ignore advice it was not safe.
Covering it up was bad too.
The worst affect may well be the damage and fear of this form of power.
We can use Nuclear, in the right place built the right way and supervised every step of the way.
In fact, given current technology it is the best maybe only way to cut carbon quickly.

Ajay...at this point, you will here no more from me in those words.

cc

P/S...and spot on:)

cc

Belly...sorry, I just mist-(punt intended:)..your point, and the most poisonous substance ever.......Can you give all the safe absolution's concerning the objectives.

cc

I dont mean to be a thread hog....Nuclear energy was a national strategic priority in Japan, but there has been concern about the ability of Japan's nuclear plants to withstand seismic activity. The Kashiwazaki-Kariwa Nuclear Power Plant was completely shut down for 21 months following an earthquake in 2007.

Following an earthquake, tsunami, and the failure of cooling systems at the Fukushima I Nuclear Power Plant on March 11, 2011, a nuclear emergency was declared. This was the first time a nuclear emergency had been declared in Japan, and 140,000 residents within 20 km of the plant were evacuated. The total amount of radioactive material released is unclear, as the crisis is ongoing.[3]

On 6 May 2011, Prime Minister Naoto Kan ordered the Hamaoka Nuclear Power Plant be shut down as an earthquake of magnitude 8.0 or higher is likely to hit the area within the next 30 years.[4][5][6] Kan wanted to avoid a possible repeat of the Fukushima disaster.[7] On 9 May 2011, Chubu Electric decided to comply with the government request. Kan later called for a new energy policy with less reliance on nuclear power.[8]

Problems in stabilizing the Fukushima I nuclear plant have hardened attitudes to nuclear power. As of June 2011, "more than 80 percent of Japanese now say they are anti-nuclear and distrust government information on radiation".[9] Post-Fukushima polls suggest that somewhere "between 41 and 54 percent of Japanese support scrapping, or reducing the numbers of, nuclear power plants".[10] Tens of thousands of people marched in central Tokyo in September 2011, chanting "Sayonara nuclear power" and waving banners, to call on Japan's government to abandon atomic energy.[11]


So more people means more unclear power-plants.

8 billion people and the earths movements are no factors to our futures of all life:).....nice thoughts.....and I wish you well.

cc

Q:How many radiation related deaths from the Fukushima disaster?

A:Zero.

Q:How many smoking related deaths each year in Japan?

A:130,000.

Fukushima is a 50 year old design, utilises about 1% the energy of its fuel rods, and should have been decommissioned years ago. Gen 4 reactor designs by comparison will be intrinsically safe and utilise almost all of the energy of their fuel.

It is harder to imagine a worse nuclear accident, and the plant is still far from safe. But the fact that nobody has died from radiation exposure would suggest that nuclear power is much safer than the scaremongers would have you believe.

btw planet 3, do you smoke?

Fester,I'm not making arugument about nuclear power.They need to build a large crane and container that can remove these spent rods and bury them deep in the ground in a stable geological area.Currently they do not have the machinery or technology to be able to do this safely.

Nuclear Fission is not the way to create energy.The waste lasts too long and is difficult to store.The future is nuclear fusion or energy like that of the sun but we currently don't have the technology or the will to go there,since there is too much money wound up in nuclear fission.Stupid ,lazy,greedy humans are at it again.

All the USA and NATO are consumed with at the moment is containing China/Russia by taking as much oil on the planet as they can.The Western Oligarchs are power hungry morons who cannot put aside for a moment their ambitions for "Global Governance" and work co-operatively with the foes they have purposefully created.

Planet 3 you come armed with blinkers of your own making.
And I suspect, given your own words by invitation.
I find no trouble in haveing opinions much different than yours.
You will be used to that, many do.
I now and again feel like giggling.
As such as you tell us coal is killing the planet, petroleum products, coal seam gas.
But can not see, properly used supervised and monitored many country's are benefiting from.
Nuclear power.

"But the fact that nobody has died from radiation exposure would suggest that nuclear power is much safer than the scaremongers would have you believe.





More videos like this

"Criminally Irresponsible"

Notes from interview on Russia Today

British scientist, Christopher Busby says that there is significant radioactive contamination in the 200 km area around the Fukushima plant, including Tokyo and areas further to the South, where there is an "enormous rage" at the slow pace of the release of information and at the officials who have downplayed the seriousness of the situation, which Busby terms "Criminally Irresponsible." He believes people in the affected area should evacuate.

Busby says the failure of Japanese officials to properly manage this historic public health crisis is due to enormous pressure from the powerful nuclear industry and its shareholders.

Busby predicts that, similar to Chernobyl, the area immediately surrounding Fukushima will become a permanent "Exclusion Zone" and that those evacuated will never be able to go home.

So far, the death toll of the devastating earthquake and tsunami is estimated to be 13 thousand people.


btw planet 3, do you smoke?.....Not yet:).....however death by lung cancer seems to be the less painful of the two.

Blinkers...Iam not a horse:) but unclear power technology is just not worth it. Right now, storage in below ground bed rock is also unsafe. People for get that the earth is always on the move, so there is no such thing as safe.

cc

Planet your foot prints lead clearly to arjay.
You highlight my inability to spell.
I highlight your inability to think.
Japan for reasons even you can understand is not the average but the extreme.
Nuclear power never should have been used there.

Note also Planet3 that Prof Busby says the USA were using some sort of new nuke in Fallugah and not DU.

Since 1900 cancer rates have trebled while other death causes such as heart disease has fallen.In Iraq serious birth defects have increased by 242% since 1992.The insideous side of these poisons is their slow slient destruction of our genetics and bodies.These particles have low radiation but mimic other elements such as calcium and our bodies don't reject them.They then over the years destroy us slowly from within.

Anyone who compares these elements with smoking dangers is a fool.

<Anyone who compares these elements with smoking dangers is a fool.>

Yes indeed, this Nature article predicts 450 million smoking related deaths in the first half of this century.

http://www.nature.com/nrc/journal/v9/n9/full/nrc2703.html

By comparison, Fukushima is yet to cause a death from leaked radiation. And what does Fallujah have to do with Fukushima? Are you suggesting that the Japanese intend to dispose of the nuclear waste by extracting the U238, forming it into artillery shells and firing it around the countryside?

"You highlight my inability to spell.
"I highlight your inability to think.

So two wrongs then make a right:) My inability
to think comes from others unable to translate..lol.
Your a cheeky sod,but well pointed out:)

So festers way of justifying the currant situation, is to compare tobacco deaths to farming land, the counties water supplies, birth defects and so on.....450 million is nothing compared with whats been outlined....Quoted so far....tank shells! Thanks for opening the exact reasons why the whole unclear program needs to be shut down.

Its typical human behaviour to recycle/utilize waste products. It stands to reason, that mankind will find other uses for it and eventually into the food systems it goes.

Yukio Edano, Japan's Chief Cabinet Secretary, said shipments of spinach from four provinces surrounding the plant had been halted. Milk shipments from Fukushima province have also been banned.


Mr Edano, the increasingly haggard face of the Japanese government's response to the crisis, sought to quell fears by saying radiation levels in food were not harmful to human health, and that he was prepared to eat contaminated produce himself.


He said: "Even if you eat and drink them several times it will not be a health hazard. So I would like you to act calmly without reacting." Asked if he would be happy to give spinach and milk to his family, he said: "Of course."


His comments were reminiscent of when John Gummer, the then Agriculture Minister, was pictured with his four-year-old daughter and half-eaten hamburgers, in an attempt to calm the British public during the "mad cow disease" outbreak in 1990.


The World Health Organisation appeared to disagree with Mr Edano, announcing that radiation seeping into food and water was "a lot more serious" than previously thought.

Belly....I use the word unclear instead of nuclear because thats the clear facts to fooling around with this stuff.

Little boys with there new toys.

Remember belly, humans learn by mistakes....

and like I said, "there are NO second chances with unclear..sorry (for bellies sake:) thats nuclear energy.

cc

Fester,when you stop smoking for a few years,your body recovers.These nuke elements stay with you for life and the environoment for thousands and millions of years.

Like smoking,it takes decades for the cell destruction to eventuate.Smoking does not cause serious genetic deformities that you pass onto your children.If you read the articles,85 times Chernobyl affects the entire planet.What Gunderson,Helen Caldicot,Prof Chris Busby and others are saying,we soon may not have enough genetic integrity to make future generations viable.

Add into the mix we have the Western lunatics thinking they can win a strategic nuke war against Russia/China?

After Chernobyl, the anti-nukes were predicting all manner of catastrophe, none of which eventuated. I guess that is why the scaremongering has morphed into the unsubstantiated bunk that you guys are spouting.

<These nuke elements stay with you for life and the environoment for thousands and millions of years.>

New designs can use the waste from current reactors as fuel, and in turn leave far less waste which need only be contained for a few centuries at most.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/feb/02/nuclear-reactors-consume-radioactive-waste

Planet 3 I try to welcome new posters.
In real life and here, just a few times, it seems a little hard for a few to fit in.
At sometime, lets face it we all make a judgment.
Arjay is one of us, been around a very long time,we except that.
But not, for most of us,some of his views.
And recent threads show that.
OK so far debate need not be nice, but we are branded fools, most of us.
I am now of the view I probably waste time talking to you.
I may be wrong, but you seem, on your post evidence, to have been invited here.
And while the subject,well I thought it was, is about the dangers of Nuclear power after the Japanese thing, has drifted.
Now its about? well weapons used by the USA?
A sure sign of willingness to turn this thread in to a child like verbal confrontation.
While my description of you is not a charge of sock puppet, what is your aim?
Are you and arjay acquainted?
Debate is best served by giving our own thoughts and opinions no matter what they are.
See you in another thread.

"and in turn leave far less waste which need only be contained for a few centuries at most.

Fester, your situation for debate has not improved.

cc

This forums comments are not addressing the real issue. The real issue was dealt with in Bertrand Russel's book "Can Man Survive" way back in the 1960's and by the the "Pugwash " Conference's of East/West Nuclear scientists that lobbied the the nuclear powers to abandon the then current nuclear energy and dismantle all nuclear weapons. The Issue was then and still now then "Can Man Survive". I do not think so, Indeed the fear a meltdown in the UK , or Nuclear war and did motivate me to move to Australia 40 years ago.

Fester,go to Arnie Gunderson's site http://www.fairewinds.com/ He is a nuclear engineer and has 39 yrs experience in nuke reactors.Currently he de-commissions them.You are sprouting ideas with no real scientific back-up.

Do you know the difference between nuclear fission and fusion?

Since the tsunami destroyed the Fukushima nucler power installatioin, 1.3 million people throughout the world have been killed in road crashes. By any sort of rational analysis, the so-called catastrophe at Fukushima pales into insignificance.
Over the same period, about 13000 people have lost their lives mining coal and the world has become more polluted by their efforts.

Third Try

It is estimated that one million people have died from cancer and other diseases from Chernobyl.This does not include the birth deformities and other congential malformations.Since 1900 cancer rates have trebled while other diseases of the heart etc, have fallen.
Sperm counts in Israel have fallen by 40% since the 1992 Gulf War due to the use of Depleted Uranium and other nuke devises that Prof Chris Busby talks about.The other Middle Eastern Countries have not done studies.

Genetic disorders in children since 1980 have increase markedly.They are the most suseptible to radiation since their cells are dividing rapidly.No real in depth studies are being done because cell destruction via radiation is slow,thus elicits no immediate response.

These new human created elements mimic the elements/compounds in our bodies and they are with us for life.Add into the mix all the nuke testing done since 1945 and we may soon not have an over population problem,but a population without enough genetic intregity to have any future.

Well said, TT. Much is made of the risk posed by radiation, but when it comes down to the hard science, the calamity has not eventuated.

<when you stop smoking for a few years,your body recovers.These nuke elements stay with you for life>

Studies on Hiroshima survivors show that like ex-smokers, their health tends to that of unexposed persons. There is no evidence that radiation will eat away at the DNA and degrade the genome of a population. Great stuff for anti-American/anti-semitic conspiracy theories, but unsupported.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0265931X02000413

<Apart from as regards the extreme psychological stress caused by the horrific loss of life following the tsunami and the large-scale evacuation from homes and villages, such studies have limited to no chance of providing information on possible health risks following low dose exposures received gradually over time—the estimated doses (to date) are just too small.>

http://iopscience.iop.org/0952-4746/32/1/N33

Can one of you geniuses (Is it Genii?) explain how Hiroshima and Nagasaki are now far bigger with loads more people in 2012 than they had in 1945.

All together now "We are all going to die! We are all going to die!! Send us more government funding lol! When the alarmists among you sell your homes for ten dollars I will start worrying. Anyone got a house for sale ?

JBower.Hiroshima and Nagasaki were small on comparison to the number of fuel rods stored in Fukushima.They stored 40 years of waste above the reators.They are not contained.Some say the radiation release is equivalent to 2000 attomic bombs or 10-100 times worse than Chenrobyl.They really don't know exactly and they should.

The danger is not the gamma radiation it is caesium, plutonium, uranium etc.Just because we don't see people dropping dead immediately is no reason to be complacent.Wild life there is already showing signs of birth defects.Our media is controlled by large corporate interests and the nuke industry with the $ billions to be made,will not accept responsibility or economic loss.

Arjay,

The original post was full of irrelevant statistics purely to create alarm. For example, the spent fuel rods contain 85 times the radioactivity of the Hiroshima bomb. So what? Are the tonnes of spent fuel rods likely to jump up and vaporise themselves?

Spent fuel rods are typically stored on site for about 40yrs so that the most active isotopes are expended, after which their radioactivity is 1/1000 as high as when they came out of the reactor. Only after this are they safe to handle and reprocess.

The proof of the pudding as previous mentioned is in the Tsunami that killed > 20 000 people, how many died from radiation? Zero.

The land near the plant was polluted with short half life isotopes whose activity will halve every 2.5 years, and most will be safe within a decade.

Isn't ignorance bliss Shadow Minister? You too are sprouting off about something of which you know virtually nothing.I'll listen to Arnie Gunderson a nuclear enginee with 39 yrs experience who has a patent on nuclear safety and once was licenced to run a nuclear facility.

If you studied what Gunderson was saying you would have reaslised he is not advocating shutting down all reactors.He was talking about the flawed nature of the Mark 1 boiling reactors which have over 70 holes at the bottom that during meltdown scenarios lets the radiation escape.They were built on a fault line close to the ocean.Everthing done was wrong.A friend of Gunderson resigned from General Electric in 1976 who designed them because of these faults.These corps when they see profit,cannot be trusted.

Keep sprouting your ignorance and go live there for a while and talk to the Japanese.

Amusement and despair assail me in equal proportions. The point of a debate and discussion about problems, is to arrive at solutions/ consensus/ agreement/ actions/ and so on. Yet posters usually arrive with their opinions intact, repeat their mantras ad nauseam, worm their way out of corners by switching topic or jumping to irrelevant side issues, quoting 'experts' with whom they agree. I can't remember reading any topic in which someone said they had been swayed by a good argument and had changed their mind on that issue. Belly says earlier on: "Planet 3 you come armed with blinkers of your own making." So do you, Belly, so do you. And so do all the others who think deaths of individuals from smoking and road accidents are somehow equivalent to the poisoning and slow, painful decline and death of thousands of uninvolved individuals from nuclear radiation, whether it be spectacular disasters like Fukushima, or 'depleted' uranium warheads. People are still dying from Nuclear tests on Australian soil, from the Bombs of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and although no one has been reported killed yet by the Fukushima debacle, they will die, slowly and painfully in the years ahead. Nuclear fission has been tried and found wanting. It is expensive, inherently dangerous and poses unsolvable disposal problems. Add to that the certainty that we have not yet cured human fallibility, and I remain astounded that people are still promoting a nuclear fission solution to future energy needs.

Arjay,

"Isn't ignorance bliss" You should know, as clearly you didn't read what I said. I was not talking about shutting reactors, I was only commenting on the storage of spent rods which you included in your post, not on what Gunderson was discussing. If you are going to attack me then at least do the courtesy of reading what I said and comment on that, otherwise you look incoherent and muddled.

I also have spent some time as a senior electrical engineer reviewing a proposed tie up between an industrial concern and a nuclear plant with nuclear design engineers, and have more than a passing knowledge of nuclear design.

Fester, you said..."There is no evidence that radiation will eat away at the DNA and degrade the genome of a population."

Radiation High energy radiation from a radioactive material or from X-rays is absorbed by the atoms in water molecules surrounding the DNA. This energy is transferred to the electrons which then fly away from the atom. Left behind is a free radical, which is a highly dangerous and highly reactive molecule that attacks the DNA molecule and alters it in many ways.
Radiation can also cause double strand breaks in the DNA molecule, which the cell's repair mechanisms cannot put right.

cc

ybgirp, welcome, hard work you under take pushing that verbage so over loaded along in front of you.
Its uphill, for both of us,you pushing I trying to find your point in that stack.
I am trying to find a reason the tragic events in Japan, should be seen as possible in any Nuclear plant.
We may build ours at say Airs rock, Tsunami seems unlikely there.
I will sit this one out,only came back to welcome you.
And to try to get some of that load off you haveagooddaymate!

Belly said..."We may build ours at say Airs rock, Tsunami seems unlikely there"....lol do you want to get speared by a black-man or something?

You say no Tsunami will reach Airs Rock?....Perhaps your right in the fact end of things, but there will be another type of Tsunami...........a wave of indigenous people bigger than what Japan had:)....I'd pick another location;)

A nuclear plant at Airs Rock..lol.....

Sorry, dry sence of humour:)

cc

Hi Third Try
We Ignore Fukushima Nuclear Power plant disaster at our peril. Every company and the Japanese Technocrats involved in the design design and it location near so near to the undersea fault line that created the surnami, where at fault and you have seen nothing yet.

Think of the number arrogant emails on some of these forums after Reactor No1 had problems. There will never be any real problems and within months it blew up, seawater screwed up the cooling system and flooded the Pumps. And now the same bunch of clowns say that it cant get any worse. How could they say that they Know the unknowable?

This Nuclear Titanic is soon to be sunk by mother natures creation of an iceberg that rips out 90 metres of rivets along its hull.. When the other 3 reactors Join No 1 in a nuclear meltdown the world has never experienced before is possible . If only the creators of all the spin on this list had sense to match their wit.

< Left behind is a free radical, which is a highly dangerous and highly reactive molecule that attacks the DNA molecule and alters it in many ways.
Radiation can also cause double strand breaks in the DNA molecule, which the cell's repair mechanisms cannot put right.>

All true and put in very scary terms, but how do the molecular observations translate to populations? You only get that information from epidemiological studies, and the major studies to date suggest that the risk of harm is small. e.g. In the case of Hiroshima survivors, note that the radiation exposure has attributable deaths of fewer than 1%. In comparison, 50% of smokers will die from a smoking related illness.

ybgirb has made the most salient point thus far.The object of my post was not a debate on nuclear fission as a viable energy source.It was about finding a solution to a real environmental problem that is affecting our entire planet.

I'm no friend of the Greens.There are issues in which I agree with them but their Communist Global Governace policies I have serious issues with.I also do not believe in AGW caused by CO2.

The nuclear industry use of fissionable materials is not a black and white issue.Prof Arnie Gunderson has demonstated that even at the most basic planning and construction of Fission Reactors,they are left seriously wanting in terms of safety,design,management and due diligence of being honest in revealing serious flaws.

Nuclear Fusion is the way of the future and we have the creativity and genius to achieve it.

Hi Fester,
You refer to atributal damage which was radiation exposure which is measurable like smokers deaths. Nobody knows what the DNA damage was and only in the last few years the answer to that question about DNA is still largely unknown . The researchers at this time only know of the high potential risk.

So whatever the long term DNA consequences are of Fukushima for millions in Japan is not Known. However the we will learn about that in years to come.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=30207 Prof Michel Chossudovsky adds to this debate with some alarming evidence.It reality is a far worse than I'm willing to admit to.

If all of Tokyo is forced to evacuate,how many boat people will be headed our way? We will not be able to stop them and total chaos will ensue.

<Nobody knows>

That is a good starting point, Pest. But with any scientific question, you look at similar situations for clues.

There is no dispute that radioactivity is very damaging at a molecular level, but the examples of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and Chernobyl would suggest that the damage is small. You might also look at places with a high natural background radiation. Ramsar has the highest natural background radiation in the world, yet its population is healthy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramsar,_Mazandaran

So barring more disasters at the Fukushima reactors, I would side with the scientific opinion that the Japanese are likely to suffer an effect so small as to be unmeasurable.

"Ramsar has the highest natural backgorund radiation in the world." This is proof that Fester and his ilk have no grasp of the science.Background radiation is not the problem.It is the new elements
like caesium etc that our bodies assimilate into our metabolism.

Thanks for that Arja,,
I agree it is the new elements like caesium etc that our bodies assimilate into our metabolism. If the 4 reactors and the waste fuel rods go critical. Which are the most dangerous elements in the long term for world wide human absorbion. That could effect DNA ?

<It is the new elements like caesium etc that our bodies assimilate into our metabolism.>

These elements have been released by nuclear blasts-hence the atmospheric test bans- and were released in the Chernobyl disaster. Yet there is no evidence of great harm to populations in the long term.

I just love it when humans run away from reality.

cc

Yes Planet3.Dumbfounded is not enough to express my amazement.Prof Chris Busby has done studies at Fallugah in Iraq.Drs there have told women to stop having babies because the the extreme congential birth defects.Busby first suspected Depleted Uranium,but upon inspection of women's hair samples,found that it was Uranium refined to a nuclear weapons level.He suspects a mini nuke or at the outside some sort of a neutron bomb that emits lower levels of radiation.

This is against all UN conventions and NATO/USA criminals need to be held accountable.

Hey Arjay

I think you just might have answered the mystery of Saddam's weapons of mass destruction.

Keep trying Fester.George Bush remember, made a joke about no weapons of mass destruction ion Iraq."No weapons over there."

Bush and Blair late last year were found guilty of war crimes in Kuala Lumpur International Court using the Laws of the Nuremberg WW2 trials for war criminals.They now have to be very careful about which countries they travel to.

You are trying to tell us that a low tech country like Iraq has developed a new nuke? The USA/NATO would have had it on every front page in the West since they were in the hot seat for lying.

Back to the drawing board FESTER.

Arjay:- "Bush and Blair late last year were found guilty of war crimes in Kuala Lumpur International Court using the Laws of the Nuremberg WW2 trials for war criminals.They now have to be very careful about which countries they travel to."
What wonderful news. Such a pity Malaysia is not so hot on human rights, it sort of spoils the effect. And why wasn't John Howard included?

Regarding Iraq and Busby... Was that the report, titled "Cancer, Infant Mortality and Birth Sex-Ratio in Fallujah, Iraq 2005–2009"

The one that interviewed 4843 people, reporting 16 cases of childhood cancer?

The report that concluded: "Finally, the results reported here do not throw any light upon the identity of the agent(s) causing the increased levels of illness and although we have drawn attention to the use of depleted uranium as one potential relevant exposure, there may be other possibilities and we see the current study as investigating the anecdotal evidence of increases in cancer and infant mortality in Fallujah."

Or a different one?

<Back to the drawing board>

Not at all, Arjay. The rise in birth defects in Fallujah is alleged to have occurred after the 2004 battle, but the Americans did not use depleted Uranium munitions during this battle. So if radio-isotopes are the cause, where did they come from? On possibility is that the Fallujah militia had a quantity of enriched Uranium. As the battle progressed they became fearful that the Americans would seize the Uranium and use it as justification for the invasion of Iraq. So they blew the Uranium up with enough explosives to completely vaporise it, thus exposing the population to dangerous radiation.

My view of Busby is of a slick con artist enriching himself with scaremongering and conspiracy theories. Nonetheless, if radiation is found to be the cause, it would support my theory.

Fester, you are an agent of dis-information and have no desire to address the reality or the truth.

Not at all, Arjay. What I am trying to show you is the importance of having strong evidence to back your claims. Note that I dont claim that my scenario is what happened, merely that it fits the facts as presented. As with any disaster, what is needed at Fallujah is a thorough investigation. With a large body of evidence you can start to narrow down the possibilities by eliminating scenarios which do not fit the evidence.

Contrast the scientific approach with the political approach, whereby you choose your outcome then sort through the available evidence, select information which supports your position and ignore all else.

Ajay....while there taking all the risks which has all the attributes of a Hollywood movie, the thinkings behind the plan is failed 360 in all future plans which logic dictates, and everyone is thinking on the cheap.(but at what cost?)
Unclear power has all the evidences of a horror picture yet to unfold.

1...if nature unleashes its power with-in our time set continuum (and its happened in earths past before) all the reactors that are now present in the world will be a ticking time bomb for all living life on this planet, and gamble with this, you will.

This planet is unstable!....and you can see it just as well as I can.

But of what of the share holders?

lol...when sh!t hits the fan, money will be the last thing you will be thinking of:)

cc

in Manazuru town, Kanagawa prefecture, some 300 km away from the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, has raised public clamour for compensation.

Soon after the discovery, on Apr. 5, Kanagawa authorities directed farmers and organisations dealing with agricultural produce not to ship shiitake mushrooms, a delicacy prized for its nutritive and medicinal properties in East Asian countries.

Some of the Manazuru mushroom samples were found to have over 141 becquerels of radioactive cesium per kg, while samples taken from Murata, Miyagi Prefecture, showed cesium levels as high as 350 becquerels. This provides a clear idea of radioactive cesium but what are all the body absorbing elements from a much bigger ban

Holy radioactivity, Batman! That is truly terrifying. But how does this compare with the natural radioactivity of foods? Bananas have a Becquerel count of about 130/kg, and Brazil nuts can have a count of up to 444/kg.

So you might have said that some of the mushrooms were a bit more radioactive than bananas, with the most radioactive of them a bit less than three times as radioactive as bananas, or about 80% as radioactive as Brazil nuts. How terrifying would it have been to put it that way?

Yep, with radiation like that I reckon the Japs should start dropping like flies real soon.

Fester....lol....do you even read the words you type:)

(Yep, with radiation like that I reckon the Japs should start dropping like flies real soon)....So....all human activities should be treated as F.I.N.E with your logic.

The sun is a nuclear reactor( and since the 19th industrial revolution by humans....now skin cancer is killing in just the same way or do you disagree? I wonder when the first skin cancer case was discovered?

Radiation poisoning which I agree in small doses can be in the long term is still not fully understood. So why do you seem not to be worried?

So when the planet is contaminated (like its not already), what are you going to tell your children?

c

Planet 3: "So when the planet is contaminated (like its not already), what are you going to tell your children?"
Fester will say, as children who have consistently refused to listen and take advice always do, "Why didn't someone tell me it was going to be like this?'
This is why the planet is on a fast track to perdition. And now the government is busily reducing 'red tape', or as one industrialist said, 'green tape', to permit the more rapid granting of permits to pollute

Our planet is exposed to various possible catastrophic destinies apart from the Reactors going critical there is a remote, but real possiblity that Mother Nature may throw an asteroid at us which could reduce us to a patch of deep frozen solar gravel and shock waves that trigger of earthquakes and volcanoes and put many other Nuclear reactors worldwide at risk . Especially in Japan which has many reactors reactors aside a two earth plates that could move due an asteroid impact

NASA, working with other national space agencies and private organizations throughout the world including Australia , is on the on the job of ensuring that no destructive asteroid ever hits Earth on our watch. What project is more worthwhile in the long term or awe-inspiring in the short term than protecting humanity from ruin? At first glance, asteroids may seem like a distant threat. But the hazard is well documented, and the consequences could not be more severe.

The history of life on Earth has been shaped by asteroid impacts. One million of them wider than 40 meters in diameter orbit the sun in our vicinity, by some estimates. An asteroid of that size struck Earth over Siberia in 1908 and laid waste an area 150 times larger than the Hiroshima atomic bomb did. The odds of a repeat in this century are about 50 percent. On the larger end, asteroids greater than about one kilometer across would
have global effects that threaten human civilization.

The first step in prevention is prediction. We must find, track and predict the future trajectory of those million near-Earth objects.Astronomers have already catalogued the orbits of most of the kilometer-scale objects they think are out there, and none are known that will hit Earth in the next 100 years. Yet the great majority of smaller ones, those big enough to destroy a country wreck Nuclear reactors, unleash a tsunami that devastates coastal cities, remain untracked. This unfinished business should be tackled next and dump nuclear power in the Meantime

What would I tell them? Always check information, especially when it comes from panic merchants.

With that approach I have found that fungi are a natural dosimeter of sorts. So if you want to get some idea of an areas total irradiation, you take fungi samples. Fish also tend to concentrate Cesium 137 as well as mercury, so it might be safe to avoid both fish and fungi from irradiated areas.

http://www.evira.fi/portal//en/evira/current_issues/archive/?bid=1282

Along that line, some plants have also been found to concentrate radio-isotopes. A notable example is tobacco, which concentrates polonium. It is believed that this polonium causes ~11,700 radiation related deaths in the world each year. That would equate to tobacco causing about five radiation related deaths each week in Japan from the polonium content alone.

http://www.tobacco.org/articles.php?pattern=polonium+or+spy&records_per_page=10

But that is just one radio-isotope. Tobacco also contains Potassium 40, Uranium, and Thorium. How many more radiation related deaths might they cause?

http://rpd.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2011/09/17/rpd.ncr375.abstract

Fester move to Tokoyo and prove us all wrong.I really don't think you really understand the issues.I dislike the Greens for their political communist philosophy but don't disagree with everything they believe.I'm not that tribal.

Arjay

Try to be realistic about the risk. By moving to Tokyo I would be more at risk from passive smoking. In contrast, Fukushima does not present a risk barring further calamities. Incidentally, I see no use for nuclear in Australia with its current economics, excepting medical isotope production and industrial uses, and I think that solar and storage technologies will be well advanced before gen 4s are developed. But if gen 4s live up to the hype then countries like the UK would be crazy not to use a technology which could provide electricity for centuries with current waste stockpiles.

That first realisation that a tonne of common granite contains the energy equivalent of several tonnes of coal is still a very strong motivator for nuclear energy. The Earth's fissile energy reserves are immense, and their successful exploitation has much to offer.

Ajay.....I dislike the Greens for their political communist philosophy but don't disagree with everything they believe.I'm not that tribal.......lol....your a funny fellow:) but each to there own.

Fester said...But that is just one radio-isotope. Tobacco also contains Potassium 40, Uranium, and Thorium. How many more radiation related deaths might they cause?

How about the fact that humans are causing their own demise with the uses of un-known/unclear technologies. However, that helps another great cause thats well known by us ( political communist philosophers ) and thats to raise the death rate of our species.

Fester, all those future deaths by the figures you've shown has just brighten my day:)

7 billion people and growing:)....Ignoring Fukushima at our peril will prove just how stupid we humans are, I mean, while our breeding will probably never stop even with the advantages hindsight.

Ajay, The youth are inheriting a toxic slime dump of a planet, enjoy trying to warn them.

I can see the Simpson's three eyed fish on the dinner plates of the people of the future:)

http://tinyurl.com/dxjrda8

cc

Hi Planet 3
Nobody knows what What the future holds. Human ignorance is the name of the game. Thank god that NASA and astronomers in many countries with telescopes: optical, Infrared, Xray , gamma ray some on earth: some in earthorbit, moon orbit, now taking pictures.

There are NASAs solar systems probes beyond Mars and Jupiter scanning the Asteroid belt looking for the big ones . And sending back data to earth bound astronomers. All funded by the US congress who shocked by NASAs first Asteroid risk management report a few years earlier. THis is why the US is using the new Russian Rocket to put US astronauts on the earths space station . NASA other rockets are unmanned and used to send probes first to the asteroid belt and into the outouerer edge of the solar system to the comets.

Our planet is exposed to various possible catastrophic destinies apart from the Reactors going critical there is a remote, but real possibility that Mother Nature may throw an asteroid at us which could reduce us to a patch of deep frozen solar gravel and shock waves that trigger of earthquakes and volcanoes and put many other Nuclear reactors worldwide at risk . Especially in Japan which has many reactors reactors aside a two earth plates that could move due an asteroid impact

Here you go, Fester,

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-04-18/radioactive-discovery-halts-pacific-hwy-upgrade/3957168

The human penchant for acting stupidly with the spoils of their intelligence is astounding!

Interesting Poirot. My guess is a toxin of fungal origin. They might be better placed consulting a mycologist.

Yawn....is that the best you've got:) I'll take the job:)

See! I have the greater argument/debate/facts and that again, the insults show that your white flag surrenders any hope of recovery.

Have a nice day.

cc

I'm only looking for the most likely cause. Notice that the photo in Poirot's link shows a site very conducive to fungal growth.

http://www.sydneyfungalstudies.org.au/articles/fungaltoxinsphysioeffec.htm

<Gastro-irritants

Agaricus xanthodermus
Boletus satanus
Chlorophyllum molybdites
Entoloma sinuatum
Hebeloma crustuliniforme
Lactarius torminosus
Naematoloma fasciculare
Omphalotus olearius
Pholiota squarrosa
Ramaria formosa
Russula emetica
Scleroderma citrinum
Tricholoma pardinum

Gastro-intestinal syndrome.
Latent period.0.5 to 4h.
Vomiting, diarrhoea, and stomach cramps.
Recovery usually occurs within 3 to 4h, may last up to 2 days. Some cases may require
hospitalisation.>

Ajay....The greener people on this planet see quite clearly whats happening around the world and it only takes a minuets thought to see the future we are all heading for.

Gezzzz its hard at the top:)

Environmentalists/the people 1 and the radioactive non thinkers nil.

There should be a heavy tax on unclear/nuclear as well as the loved carbon tax, and IMO any polluter must pay the earth back and its people.

In environmental law, the polluter pays principle is enacted to make the party responsible for producing pollution responsible for paying for the damage done to the natural environment. It is regarded as a regional custom because of the strong support it has received in most Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) and European Community (EC) countries.

The polluter pays principle underpins environmental policy such as an ecotax, which, if enacted by government, deters and essentially reduces greenhouse gas emissions. Some eco-taxes underpinned by the polluter pays principle include: the Gas Guzzler Tax, in US, Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE)- a "polluter pays" fine. The U.S. Superfund law requires polluters to pay for cleanup of hazardous waste sites, when the polluters can be identified.

Polluter pays is also known as extended producer responsibility (EPR). This is a concept that was probably first described by the Thomas Lindhqvist for the Swedish government in 1990. EPR seeks to shift the responsibility dealing with waste from governments (and thus, taxpayers and society at large) to the entities producing it. In effect, it internalises the cost of waste disposal into the cost of the product, theoretically meaning that the producers will improve the waste profile of their products, thus decreasing waste and increasing possibilities for reuse and recycling.

cc