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The Forum > General Discussion > Clive Palmer is talking sense.

Clive Palmer is talking sense.

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http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=29930 Patrick O'Connor has an more in depth analysis of what Palmer actually said.

Clive in criticising Gillard and Rudd on their foreign policy of painting China as an aggressor and a danger to us.This is not in our national interest.The USA and NATO are clearly the aggressors both in the Middle East and now Africa.

NATO are targeting Chinese interests in Africa.Kony is or was in an region of Uganda where the Chinese are drilling for oil.Kony was an evolving ruse for a Ugandan invasion by NATO.George Clooney and botox lips are leading the charge into Sudan where China is again securing it's oil supplies.35,000 Chinese workers were forced from Libya when NATO attacked it.Remember Operation Iraqi Liberation = OIL.They soon changed that name.

If China does not see us as a reliable supplier,it will source it's energy and resources from other countries.Labor want to tax the golden goose of mining and are at the same time are undermining our relations with China by being to heavily aligned with the USA.

Bob Carr needs to have a long hard look at our foreign policy because what's in the interest of the Global Elites of the USA and Europe are not necessarily in ours.Clive Palmer knows the truth.
Posted by Arjay, Sunday, 25 March 2012 5:29:35 PM
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very Early in the morning to find my self rolling on the floor laughing.
Took a while to make my way out from under the desk.
Dogs thought I had gone mad and think they wanted me to stay there.
Still fun is where you find it.
Posted by Belly, Monday, 26 March 2012 3:20:22 AM
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Typical Belly.All derision and no substance to back it up.We are seeing a build up for war over energy and resources and you like most are incapable of grasping the nettle.
Posted by Arjay, Monday, 26 March 2012 5:11:42 AM
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Arjay,
Don't be so hard on Belly, he's not alone there. Foresight is something not many have & the rest suffer for it.
It looks as though mankind has stopped developing because they just don't seem to learn or pass on what they learn. Portray a picture of looming crisis & they stick their head into the sand. Then, when the crap does hit the fan it's someone else's fault.
Posted by individual, Monday, 26 March 2012 6:41:01 AM
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Clive looks after Clive, what happened to the CIA. Now Kony .
Conspiracy's are for small minds.
Indy will go along with Arjay
Posted by 579, Monday, 26 March 2012 6:52:47 AM
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Ok, so here's a question to all you labor supporters.

What are we going to do if the likes of China goes elsewhere?

You must understand that this mining tax will take a huge chunk of profits and, these profits must be replaced, or the shares will suffer, which, by the way, provided security for a large portion of the funding needed to mine.

Like any business, large or small, if the returns are not there, the securing of funding becomes that much harder.

We need an immediate election so THE PEOPLE not the labor government can decide on this issue.
Posted by rehctub, Monday, 26 March 2012 7:05:35 AM
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579 You don't have to did very deep to find out about the shenanigans of the CIA.They are everywhere involved in drugs undermining Govts etc.The Green movement is communist and so is Gillard.David Rothschild is a public figure pushing Green agenda's.This Green agenda believes in saving the planet via a totalitariarn World Govt,run by the financial elites.Bob Brown is on TV heralding Gobal Governance.Were we asked to vote on this?

We see US soldiers in Afghanistan guarding the opium fields.A lot of this is entering Russia and this is what angers Putin.Without Putin NATO would be already in Iran and Syria.They are trying to do to Russia what Britian did to China ie the Opium wars.

Educate yourself and read some of the articles on Global Research.
Posted by Arjay, Monday, 26 March 2012 7:15:28 AM
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Wow Arjay, old Clive doesn’t hold back does he!

I think it is a very complex situation, but my gut feeling is that we should definitely not be pandering to China’s wishes anywhere near as much as Palmer would like.

His enormous China First coal mine, due to come on line in 2014, which will be the biggest coal mine in Australia, is a huge step in the wrong direction, IMO.

His desire for the Chinese to have a freer path to more ownership and direct involvement in Australian businesses and mines is likewise.

We need to NOT become any more dependent on China for our economic wellbeing, as tempting as it is.

As for American or Australian aggression, well there is certainly a need to be security-conscious and to prepare ourselves accordingly. Stationing thousands of US Marine in northern Australia is a part of this. Whether it is a good idea or not I don’t know. But no matter what Australia did that was in any way a meaningful improvement to its defences, China would see it as antagonistic.

In fact, whatever we do to restrict China’s involvement in Australia will not go down well with them, which basically means that we either kowtow to their wishes and become virtually owned by them or we do things that stretch the friendship and perhaps lead to a more aggressive approach from them.

Quite frankly, I think it will get pretty ugly in the near future, given the immense size of China’s population and economy and their absolutely ravenous push for resources.
Posted by Ludwig, Monday, 26 March 2012 7:26:03 AM
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"It looks as though mankind has stopped developing because they just don't seem to learn or pass on what they learn. Portray a picture of looming crisis & they stick their head into the sand. Then, when the crap does hit the fan it's someone else's fault."

Please stop it 'individual' ... you are starting to sound like a 'loony lefty sock-puppet'.
Posted by bonmot, Monday, 26 March 2012 7:41:39 AM
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For me, the most fascinating aspect of Clive Palmer's outbursts is that he is perhaps demonstrating to the world, not how much he understands the Chinese, but how little.

"'Why do you think the likes of the head of BHP and myself didn’t go to the dinner [with President Obama]?' Palmer explained. 'It’s because we aren’t that stupid. We have real interests [in China] and know how the Chinese act.'”

What he probably meant, of course, is that in one of his meetings with them, the representatives of the Chinese government politely "made it known" that they would be "displeased" with any show of Americanism. In a panic that this might affect his asking price, Palmer kow-tows (a very apposite description, under the circumstances; look it up) and does their bidding.

Of course, it is possible that I may be doing the chap an injustice, and he fully realizes and accepts that he is being manipulated by a foreign power, and simply prefers that to being... ummm, manipulated by a different foreign power.

Oh, right. But let's be clear on this.

Clive Palmer's interests appear similar to those of any mega-rich businessman (Twiggy Forrest, Gina Rinehart, Dick Smith et al.), in that they lie wholly and solely with themselves, and their further personal enrichment. As it is in any functioning capitalist country.

But equally, any association with the interests of Australia is purely coincidental.
Posted by Pericles, Monday, 26 March 2012 8:51:26 AM
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I largely agree Pericles, except for one thing:

I would definitely NOT include Dick Smith in your little list of the self-interested mega-rich.
Posted by Ludwig, Monday, 26 March 2012 9:51:58 AM
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Me too Dick Smith is a great and governing Australian.
Indy is far right, Bonmot lost but worth a giggle now and again.
China, like it or not,as arjay tells us often, owns Americas debt.
It soon will be the biggest owner of other debts.
And considers annual growth of less than 5% a problem.
We would be silly to let our selves become a third world country by not trading with them.
Every one else will, Rechtub half a term to run, and you in any case are quite wrong.
If you got your wish we would be a strange country.
Arjay, constantly you say it is me who is blind, bloke we are headed for war, maybe this year.
You are quite right, the difference is I will be frighting on the other side the right side the west.
Posted by Belly, Monday, 26 March 2012 2:55:29 PM
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ROFLMHO

"Bonmot lost but worth a giggle now and again."

It's ok Belly ... know what you mean : )
Posted by bonmot, Monday, 26 March 2012 3:09:37 PM
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Arjay,
How about this speech from Greens leader Brown. He is after world government with one vote for each person. How would we get a rep in with the population of China and India and Indonesia.

http://greensmps.org.au/content/news-stories/bob-brown-delivers-3rd-annual-green-oration

I always said the Greens were in fairyland.
Posted by Banjo, Monday, 26 March 2012 4:41:13 PM
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Thank's Banjo.Bob Brown is a fool.The US Federal Reserve along with the likes of the Rothschilds,JP Morgan,Soros,Goldman Sachs,Rockerfeller et al,create from nothing all the money for the US Govt to function.They are all pervasive.They control the UN World Bank,Bank of International Settlements,the media and our Govts here.

He who pays the piper calls the tune.There is no way that these oligarchs are going to give any meaningful votes to anyone.It will be a totalitariarn dictatorship.

Clive Palmer mentions the Rockerfellers as CIA enforcers.This is a must see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5BecBtH97M Aaron Russo was a film maker and became a close friend of Nick Rockefeller.Nick tried to recruit Aaron for the cause of his NWO.Aaron Russo said this to Nick Rockefeller,"What is the point of all this,you have all the money and power you need,what's the point,what's the end goal?

Nick Rockefeller,"The end goal is to get everyone chipped,to control the whole of society,to have the bankers and Govt controlling the world.We have to convince people that socialism is capitalism."

Senator Jay Rockerfeller http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct9xzXUQLuY
Posted by Arjay, Monday, 26 March 2012 6:27:26 PM
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Senator Jay Rockefeller goes on to say,"Perhaps is was better that the internet had not been invented."

When you look at all the evidence what these criminal elites have in store for us in their plans for Global Domination,is far worse than anyone's worst nightmare.They are criminally insane!
Posted by Arjay, Monday, 26 March 2012 6:32:53 PM
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One of the delights of OLO is that it is home to the most sweeping of unsupported, sound-bite generalizations.

Hence:

>>China, like it or not,as arjay tells us often, owns Americas debt.
It soon will be the biggest owner of other debts.<<

What is missing, of course, is the answer to the question "is this a good thing, or a bad thing"

Is it a good thing for China to be so reliant upon the US$? After all, what would they do if things got so bad that the US "did a Greece", and unilaterally declared that it will cancel 70% of its debt?

Is it also a good thing for them to have the same ambition for other sovereign debt? Surely, the same rules would apply - every time they lend money, they become exposed to that country's economic performance.

Is it a bad thing for the US to have so much of its debt in China's hands, knowing that their dependence on the survival of the US economy is so massive that they could not afford to call in the markers?

China needs to oil the financial wheels of its trading partners. Otherwise they just stop buying all China's manufacturing output, and the wheel stops turning. Their own people, let's face it, can't afford to take up the slack for another few decades.

It's just a trade-related variation on the old story. If you owe your Bank $1,000, and you can't repay it, you have a problem. If you owe your Bank a million dollars and can't repay it, they have a problem.
Posted by Pericles, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 1:17:04 PM
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Banjo! Brown has not got the intelligence to be involved in a conspiracy!
Not the numbers and you can bet the CIA FBI and every one watches him.
Palmer silly as he is, would not be pleased that arjay thinks he is right.
Hurts but hope the green bloke gets a billion out of him.
Bonmot often happens sorry but glad you knew, look some times its laugh or cry.
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 3:56:11 PM
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Pericles and Belly we have a conga line of world leaders talking about their New World Order including both Bushes,Henry Kissenger,Bill Clinton,Hilary Clinton,Gary Hart,Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and Obama.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHMcoHEasJg Here you will see these words "NEW WORLD ORDER" eminating from their lips.

Christopher Monckton said this at Cophengagen when they tried to bring the ETS and carbon tax globally.Bob Brown supports "Global Governance".There are just so many thick heads who refuse to look at the reality.
Posted by Arjay, Tuesday, 27 March 2012 5:00:38 PM
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Yeah yeah, Arjay.

>>There are just so many thick heads who refuse to look at the reality.<<

We are all thick, and you are the smart guy. We should know that by now, you have told us enough times.

But, just so that you can prove it to us all over again, why not have a shot at answering the question that I posed obliquely in my earlier post? Here it is, in cut down form, to make it easier to understand.

Is the fact that China owns a large proportion of US debt a) good for China or b) good for the US? A sentence or two of explanation would help us thick-heads, so long as you use easy words.

If there is a case for c) neither or d) both, that would be fun to hear as well.

Looking forward to a bit of Arjay-style education.
Posted by Pericles, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 7:43:19 AM
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Gotcha arjay!
Took time but you are from mad magazine aren't you?
Spy vs spy, knew I had seen it before
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 1:51:50 PM
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Pericles,China might own the debt and have the industrial assendency but the USA has 700 bases around the planet,a serious nuke defence shield and it seems new mini nuke technology which they think gives them the edge over Russia/ China.

Add into the mix a growing public awareness of the theft by these Oligarcical Banksters and we have desperate people seeking war as an escape from us.
Posted by Arjay, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 11:20:33 PM
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Way to go Arjay. Anything but answer a straight question, eh.

>>Pericles,China might own the debt and have the industrial assendency but the USA has 700 bases around the planet<<

Let's take a closer look, shall we?

The US has a Defence budget nine times that of China. Without China owning their debt (i.e., lending them money), the US would be unable to spend the $900 billion plus that they do every year on their "700 bases", and their "mini nuke technology".

So, in the most obvious way imaginable, China is providing the money that builds the US military capability. How good is that?

The question remains: is China happy or unhappy owning US paper?

As you made clear to us:

>>There are just so many thick heads who refuse to look at the reality.<<

So, educate us, please.
Posted by Pericles, Thursday, 29 March 2012 8:12:29 AM
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Oh, and another thing, Arjay.

>>Add into the mix a growing public awareness of the theft by these Oligarcical Banksters and we have desperate people seeking war as an escape from us.<<

Wars cost money.

Whom would these "Oligarcical Banksters" choose to fight against?

Think of it in terms of revenue and profit (which I am sure is what you conceive these "banksters" do), and try to work out how on earth any of them could possibly make anything except a massive loss from a war.

Even a war against China, in an attempt, say, to avoid repayment of their massive borrowings there, would cost more than they would save, and last longer than any of them could hope to live. What on earth would be the point?
Posted by Pericles, Thursday, 29 March 2012 8:20:52 AM
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Wars cost money? They certainly do and who creates all the money from nothing and loans it to our Govts? Who also has shares in arms manufacturing/dealing? Who have interests in creating wars for oil and minerals? Yes your bankster mates Pericles with who you probably have shares in.
Posted by Arjay, Saturday, 31 March 2012 4:56:30 PM
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Damn ... another keyboard :(
Posted by bonmot, Saturday, 31 March 2012 6:21:36 PM
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bonmot is bon-boring.No intellectual substance and an inability to debate.At least pericles tries.
Posted by Arjay, Saturday, 31 March 2012 7:04:58 PM
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You missed the question, Arjay, in your excitement to cut'n'paste your standard-issue rant.

>>...who creates all the money from nothing and loans it to our Govts? Who also has shares in arms manufacturing/dealing? Who have interests in creating wars for oil and minerals?<<

The question was, who would these imaginary people start a war against, in the present circumstances? If you believe that the profit motive is at the heart of everything they do, I'm sure you - and they - would have given this a modicum of thought.

Just in general terms, would they not be in danger of creating inflation, for example, which would badly impact their wealth? Would they not also be in danger of causing another round of unsustainable pressure on the Banking system, and in doing so cut their own throats, metaphorically speaking?

But more critically, with whom would they pick a fight?
Posted by Pericles, Monday, 2 April 2012 7:31:28 AM
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