Most of our incompetent governments have given private public partnership companies the right to rip us off.

We are charged a toll to use what should be public roads, when we pay enough fuel tax to pay for them all a number of times over. Not only a toll, but it appears these companies have the right to fine us, if we have not paid by some prescribed time.

This is disastrous to tourism, & little wonder. A friend spent a few days around Melbourne recently. He rang the toll company & paid for the 4 times he knew he had used the toll road. Imagine his surprise when 6 months later he receives a fine of $400+ dollars for the couple of times he was not aware he had used one, so had not paid.

He assures me that he, & everyone he can convince, will pay absolutely no attention to the expensive Victorian tourist promotion adds we all see. Apparently a couple of others who have heard his rants have had similar experiences.

We had friends from NSW stop in on us for a couple of weeks. They run a large motor home, unsuitable for city driving. We loaned them our old tow car, & as they were likely to use toll roads, taped my E tag to its windscreen.

When they were leaving they mentioned it had "beeped" at them 6 times. Imagine my annoyance when I get a bill from the toll company for 3 trips, when apparently the damn transponder didn't work. This must be common, as they dropped the extra charge, as soon as I complained.

My friends also got a bill for one trip when their NSW transponder didn't work. They are not going to come any where near Brisbane ever again they reckon.

It would appear to me that interstate vehicles should be exempt for our own advantage. If we want to promote tourism, with happy tourists, & it should be part of these companies charter that they are.

I get so sick of watching us shoot ourselves in the foot.

Has been, I agree with most of what you say, however, unlike many, I don't have a problem with tolls, as there is always a free alternative route.

What I do have a problem with is the way the fee increases if you don't pay within three days, or worse still, when the fee can go to a hundred dollars or more.

This is outrageous and this type of practice would see the company facing a please explain from the ACCC.

By all means, if you fail to pay on time, (and three days is a joke), add I retest at the current overdraft rate, but to go from $4 to $100 in a year or so is criminal.

Now tolls should also be much cheaper for heavy vehicles as the whole point of the gate way bridge was to divert heavy traffic.

Yet another money grab by cash strapped governments who have simply wasted our hard earned dollars.

I think the exemption for interstate visitors is worth looking at, but like most ideas, there is always a way to manipulate a good system.

The ones who cause the most damage though are the consultants who provide the data for which the toll roads implementation is relied upon.

Take the Clem 7.

It was advised that some 6,000 movements per day would be the norm, but that was way off and, many mums and dads turned their $1 shares into 1 cent shares.

Meanwhile, these consultants, many charging millions, go off and stuff something else up.

Just look at the health pay bungle.

I had a similar experience when traveling to Melbourne, then trying to work my way out of that maze with an out-dated map, not knowing where I am, left from right, I must have stepped twice on one of those toll-roads, then I received a bill with a fine. A single phone call waived the fine, although the original fee was kept.

Never going there again!

In many cases, I can agree with Hasbeen's basic premise, but I do have a problem with his example.
The reason we pay toll is to repay private enterprises investment in building the freeways.
If we do not use this method to fund this kind of infrastructure development, then the only real option would be for governments to fund the investment.
But that would add to public debt, and I constantly read in posts on this site how evil the government is to put us in debt.
I just don't think we can have it both ways. Either government funds infrastructure development, or the private sector does.
And if the private sector does, then they - not unreasonably - want to make a profit.
Then if we look at the PE of the toll road builders, generally speaking they're profitable, but not that profitable, so one could conclude that the charges are probably commensurate.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

You think that's bad. We went to Greece in 2010 and there was massive construction of toll booths on every existing road [ even the secondary ones]. to cross a bridge eqiv to the gateway was $24au EACH WAY!.

I've had the same experience as Pepper in Spain and France, not with bridges but with intercity freeways.
However, expensive thought they may be, these freeways are mostly of a terrific standard and one can slip along safely.
Here I confess to being a bit of a lead foot when I can get away with it.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

do these 'companies' have any legal right to fine us?

What if you tell them to go shove their 'fine'?

Now that's a very interesting question. I wonder what they would do if one didn't pay.
Probably go the debt collector, "we'll destroy your credit rating for not paying a bill" route.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Ah good ol' PPPs. Where profit goes to a private company, risk goes to the Tax payer and political donations go to the party in goverment.

As Authur Daly used to say, nice little earner that. Like a Macquarie Bank run airport parking.

Anthonyve,

I refuse to own an 'e-tag', as I refuse to pay tolls. Sure I'm cutting off my nose to spite my face in a lot of instances, but if you had the NSW government who actually close surface roads to increase the toll traffic you might understand.

We are getting no more utility when they close the roads to make the same number of lanes there were before. It's a SCAM!

I did consider relenting on my resolution once, but found they charge $80 for the priveledge of using the tolls once in a blue moon, refundable upon death.

Well it will be a cold day in hell when I give a toll company an $80 interest free loan. Apparently they have millions in the bank earning interest with this scam.

They might have had me if I had to outlay nothing and paid as I go like Richard Branson lets me. One can normally only swim against the tide for so long, but my resolve is strengthened by knowing that even though a vote is meaningless, and the world is corrupt, I can still deny a bunch of c%nts $80.

The thread asks a question about governments.
I think it highlights us.
We refuse to even consider each issue and act a government confronts has at least two sides.
For every happy out come, in our opinion, some one is unhappy.
It will always be so.
If we personally, consider all sides of any issue, and task ourselves as governments do, with getting it right.
We will soon see our self assurance , we know better, turn to mud.

Dear Belly,

"We will soon see our self assurance , we know better, turn to mud."

Isn't this a wonderful and excellent result then?

As you mentioned, measuring actions by material outcome is bound to create one conflict or another.

If government does things, if government makes the choices, then we may like or hate the result, but we will not benefit from it, not from a spiritual perspective anyway: the actions of others teach us nothing.

We cannot gain a lasting benefit from others' decisions and actions, but if we act by free choice based on our own 'I know better' and then fail to get it right, turning our self assurance into mud, then we have gained in humility - which is far more precious than good roads or any other material gain, all temporary.

There are two aspects to this.

Is it "right" for a government to allow private enterprise to cash in on a service - in this case, roads - that could arguably be provided as a service to their public? And second, should those companies then be allowed to gouge that public, as if there was a contract freely entered into, that had been violated.

The first comes down to "what do we expect from our taxes". And whether we like it or not, such services as roads, public transport, garbage collection etc. have taken a lower priority to their concept of social "responsibility" - with hundreds of millions sunk into "community sports", "culture and heritage" etc. feel-good exercises. Personally, I'd prefer them to build roads with my money.

The second seems to come down to individual experiences.

Mine is that the Sydney system works incredibly (as in, sometimes I can't believe it myself) well. When I forgot to transfer my tag to a hire car while my own was being serviced, all I got was a letter that allowed me to allocate the charge to my account. Penalty? An "admin fee" of $1 per incident. And when the tag hasn't worked, but instead sets off the camera, what do I get? Nothing. They (presumably) check the numberplate against the valid account, and make the charge against it. Penalty? None.

The broader view is that we shouldn't have to negotiate with a private company for a "public" service. The narrow view is that if they all worked as well as my tag provider, I'd have little to complain about.

Houie,
I admire your resolve. I live in the bush so don't have to worry about tolls or parking meters.

Question. What right has the government got to give personal details of a car registration number to a private company? The numbers were originally designed purely for government use and should be subject to privacy provissions.

Some people also tell me that upon lodging a building application, they receive mail from building supply companys. How come?

Having recently negotiated the VIC Etag system as an out-of-towner I relate to Houlley and Pericles comments.

It is perhaps a natural progression that all those tax-provided facilities once taken for granted (like roads) have been overshadowed by candy floss policies and flim flam.