Give RUDD the boot:

Whether its simply a distraction, or there is a leadership challenge on the cards, the Prime Minister should step up to the plate and sack Rudd. Relegate him to the back benches, do what ever is necessary that removes the doubts that we have a government that is governing. Gillard keeps telling us that she's getting on the job, but for most onlookers, Rudds' conitinued distablisation through his inability to state that he is loyal and supportive of Gillard winning the next federal election is eating aways at the foundations of the very thin credibility platform Labor stands on. Anna Bligh, in declaring the date for the Qld election has called on it to be resolved and I quote: "Most Australians are getting pretty sick of the leadership speculation federally. The sooner this is resolved one way or the other the better," Its time for our Prime Minister to show that her brand of leadership is focused on good governance and government. Rudd must go now.

Can you imagine a sacked Rudd voting with the government?

The recent video has exposed a slimy but ruthless vindictive man, who has tried to act a father christmas, as his idea of a PM. Yes it makes me sick too.

It would be interesting to see who actually was sacked if she tried it. Talk about a "yes prime minister" situation for labor. I'll bet they wish they could find a compromise candidate.

Is there really anyone who who still thinks they are electable? After choosing Latham, Rudd & Gillard as leaders one has to believe they have lots of judgement, & they are sitting on it, it's all in their backside.

Must be hard to run a party funded by the blue collar workers, with policies handed down, like commandments, by accademia, particularly when much of accademia resent that many blue collar workers earn as much as they do.

But Rainier, what would sacking Rudd achieve?

He’d still be there. His party could still install him as their next leader just as easily, couldn’t they?

And if they do, after Gillard has removed him from the ministry, there goes her chance of a portfolio.

I very strongly think that Rudd should be sacked. He utterly doesn’t deserve to be in his current position after his disastrous stint as PM, especially his extraordinary opening of up the asylum seeker issue after it had been dealt with by Howard. But I can’t see that his sacking would achieve anything in the current leadership wrangle.

When are all the labor people and thier supporters going to read between the lines and do the honorable thing, and CALL AN ELECTION.

By all means let them have their now long winded leadership tussle, but the majority of us want a government to govern our country.

Obviously they won't, because even if they could bring Bob back, I doubt they could turn the tide thstntheynthemselves have caused to turn so badly.

Please, please, please, CALL AN ELECTION and let's be done with this minority, unworkable government.

Rainier and Ludwig,

Either way, we are in for an election in the next couple of months. If Gillard stays and demotes Rudd, he will abstain from some crucial vote (stay away sick, otherwise engaged, over-slept, etc.) and she's gone. If Rudd takes over, Gillard ditto and maybe Oakeshott too, although Rudd may pick up Katter and Wilkie, but on balance, he's gone.

Maybe Gillard will go the whole hog and precipitate a double dissolution, just to stuff up the Greens. She just need a trigger issue.

So I guess we can say good-bye to a Labor government until at least 2020.

Looking at that video of Rudd,you all must know by now what a nasty piece of work he is.What a petulant,egocentric ,narcississt he is.He is very dangerous since he has absolutely no grasp on reality.If Rudd gets sacked,he will resign and probably force an election.Gillard has no choice. The Labor Party are now totally impotent and dysfunctional.

The Conga line of suck holes is creating a downward spiraling vortex,from which Labor may never escape.

After reading Julie Bishops war mongering article on Syria I have very little faith in the Coalition either.

and this is the honest and open Government Windsor and Oakshott betrayed their electorates for. You reap what you sow.

Rudd's game playing clearly alludes to Samuel Taylor Coleridge's poem The Rime of the Ancient Mariner.In the poem, an albatross starts to follow a ship — however - being followed by an albatross was generally considered an omen of good luck. However, the mariner shoots the albatross with a crossbow, which is regarded as an act that will curse the ship (which indeed suffers terrible mishaps). To punish him, his companions induce him to wear the dead albatross around his neck indefinitely. Hanging around the neck of Gillard is not string of pearls but a political albatross:

"And some in dreams assured were
Of the Spirit that plagued us so;
Nine fathom deep he had followed us
From the land of mist and snow.

And every tongue, through utter drought,
Was withered at the root;
We could not speak, no more than if
We had been choked with soot.

Ah! well-a-day! what evil looks
Had I from old and young!
Instead of the cross, the Albatross
About my neck was hung."

Well its a shame to see labor destroying itself like this, but they
are doing it all themselves, so can't even blame the liberals.

The thing is, the challenge that Gillard took on in the first
place, was a bit like herding cats, so was bound to fail
eventually.

Brilliant, Rainier !

And your first three-quarters was close to the mark, Arjay :)

You would think that any political party worth its salt would have some sort of mentor, or even a devil's advocate, or - who was that guy who used to whisper in (I think) the Roman emperor's ear, 'You are mortal' ?

Or at least somebody to give a compulsory Power-Point presentation on the subject of 'Hubris' for all new MPs ? A bit late now, I suppose.

Australia's economy has changed rapidly since the fifties, and the entire class structure with it. So, as Yabby implies, is this the end of the old Labor Party ? Will it still exist in 2020 ? Or will the Coalition seize the middle ground for the next generation ?

In watching that video, old news two or three years old.
I see what we may well see if we watched many people in what should have been a private moment.
Why was it filmed, how was it done, in side his office?
Gillard may have had nothing to do with it.
It could have been a private phone film.
Sack Rudd, it is his detractors, not him that highlight this issue.
And a media/opposition who farm headlines and discontent within the Government.
Gillard has been hit with feathers , nothing of substance by both.
She however, should look to her puppets Crean lead, for putting her failures on display.
She must not sack Rudd.
But her self, if she sacked Rudd she would, as is the case with her any one but Rudd followers, do harm to Labor.
Watch for Shorten, a chance exists for a new start.

Ms Gillard should resign.

Her stated reasons for usurping the leadership were:

<<I asked my colleagues to make a leadership change.
A change because I believed that a good Government was losing its way.>>

The government is still lost:
--She introduced a (potentially industry destroying) carbon tax on the assumption the rest of the world would follow suit-- it has not, and is not likely to do so in the near future.
--She backtracked on a commitment not to unwind the medicare rebate,then tried to sell what is a blatant revenue grad as a equity measure.
--She reneged on an agreement with Andrew Wilke to regulate gambling when she deemed she no longer needed his vote.

When she back-stabbed Kevin Rudd she committed to:
<<I want to make firstly a commitment that I will lead a strong and responsible Government that will take control of our future>>
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/gillard-promises-to-lead-with-humility/story-e6frea6u-1225883822014

She has failed to deliver.

If Kevin Rudd is damned for micromanaging, Gillard is double damned for not managing at all.
--She did not know that her staffers were preparing her acceptance speech a month in advance.
--She did not know her staffers were revving up the Tent Embassy protesters.
--She did not know that the Malaysian Solution was full of holes.

Leading up to the assassination she used polling to undermine Kevin Rudd:
<<In the days before challenging Kevin Rudd for the prime ministership, Julia Gillard personally handed to her Labor colleagues copies of secret internal polling designed to undermine his leadership.Labor MPs told Fairfax that Ms Gillard used the polling as part of an effort to persuade them to support her for the prime>>
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/gillard-used-polling-to-trigger-coup-20120214-1t49l.html

The same polling today shows the party is just as unpopular and her rating is well below that of Kevin Rudd’s.

As a matter of principle she should resign.

As some of her supporters were wont to shout in the lead up the last election: "You go girl!" . Ms Gillard, you go girl -- and now, please!

Strangely enough, this "political junkie" developed an aversion to Australian politics sometime around the lead-up to the last election and hasn't watched any politics on a TV screen since - (kinda strange for someone who used to watch parliament question time for enjoyment).

What a dearth of inspiration inhabits our political landscape these days.

I'm inclined to agree with SPQR. It is Julia Gillard who should resign, as an acceptance that she commands neither the respect of the electorate nor the wholehearted support of her own Party.

There are so many back-stories in play at the moment that it is difficult to get even a vaguely-true picture of the situation. Story One: Ms Gillard is apparently a really intelligent lady, warm and witty, but with an appalling public persona that grates on the electorate. Story Two: Kevin Rudd is a cold-hearted, foul-mouthed bully, with the personality of a pit-bull but the schmoozing public face of a Liberace.

Story Three: Actually, Julia Gillard is preferred over Tony Abbott on a head-to-head basis by the majority of people.

If we strip away the journalistic "let's make a story" layer, we are left with a political party that hasn't the faintest idea what it stands for, or why. As such, it is infinitely more difficult to work out what sort of leader it needs.

The lady should take the challenge - not to face down Rudd, but to demand honesty from her own Party. Ask them to choose a leader based upon what they think needs to be done for the country, and not just for the sake of keeping their own sheltered-workshop sinecure for as long as they are able.

That should keep them busy for a while.

Pericles,Labor haven't a clue what the needs of the country are.What hope have they of picking a leader who that can be effective? They will pick a leader that the media ordains as electable,not one who can think independantly or fix our economy.

With Labor ,it is not only a lack of talent and intelligence but an enormous vauuum in the courage arena.Everyone of them is a gutless wonder who are there just to collect the parliamentary pension.

I don't think Rudd is that dumb, he's as cunning as Batty Beattie. The Labor party is finished in the polls [ lets see what QLD results turn up, though]and if he challenges the PM now, even with resounding approval from all factions; the public perception of the labor machine will be grinding metal on metal regardless. Would he want to self destruct his potential political future [ as untenable as it is NOW]by assisting in labors demise?. If so, it's his own alternative agenda and revenge for his position as it is now.

I'm not so sure that a double dissolution would stuff up the Greens.
There is a huge number of despairing once ALP voters who remain committed to social justice and doing something about global warming, and therefore who cannot contemplate voting for a Coalition led by Abbott but have given up on Labor, at least for now.

I suspect that many will decide they have nowhere else to go but to the Greens.

I'm predicting that the Greens will do very well in the next election off the backs of these people, particularly in the Senate, where I have no doubt they will hold the balance of power in much the same way as the Democrats did for many years.

Moreover, setting their policies aside for a moment, the Greens have two things working in their favour.

First, as they gain in power their more extreme positions are moderating. This commonly happens when a small, narrowly focused party gains some power and then has to deal with reality.

Second, love them or hate them, the Greens' position on most issues is generally consistent with the party's stated values, giving them a degree of credibility that at the moment both major parties lack.

It's going to be an interesting election to follow, that's for sure.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

What is going on here. Getting somewhat in front of yourself don't you think. I do not think Rudd will bring on a challenge. You are hearing rumors. Rudd is a mischief maker, and that is as far as he can go.
He didn't get moved on for no reason.
Julia could very well sack Rudd and put him on the back bench, or else he will plead elegance and toe the line, and keep his foreign ministers role and his UN duties.
So do not get to excited.

Can't argue with that, Arjay.

>>Pericles,Labor haven't a clue what the needs of the country are.What hope have they of picking a leader who that can be effective? They will pick a leader that the media ordains as electable,not one who can think independantly or fix our economy.<<

Once upon a time (he said, showing his age) you could rely upon socialists to be a little more, errr, socialist, and the conservatives to be honest capitalists.

Unfortunately, somewhere along the line, the "narrative" (how I loathe that word) has changed. Well, not changed, exactly. Disappeared would be closer to the mark. All political positioning is now opinion-poll driven, with principles a distant, fading memory. And opinion polls themselves are pure fodder for the media, who shamelessly work them into whatever agenda they happen to believe sells better at the time.

What will happen is that we will be equally unhappy with the next lot. And be equally surprised and disappointed to be so.

Based on comments so far we here in OLO are Representative.
Talk back radio, much like us is full of comments.
And like us good bad ugly and just plain silly.
Hung Parliament has given us a reason to let others form our opinions.
And to form them based on wrong in put.
Any left of center voter should hope Gillard leaves.
I see Anthony saying Greens, yet it is them who in part cripple the ALP.
Gillard, driven to power by a thought *any one but Rudd*
Has taken the party much lower than him.
She, with all the good will in the world, without a Kevin Rudd, can not win an election.
Sacking Rudd?
To preserve the most unimpressive leader bar Latham and Crean?
A triple dead heat that linked in policy's and failure these three are best forgotten.
the ALP must confront this return to 1975.
I have spoken of it,that legendary government.
It end, its achievements, but too, a Medea intent on creating story's then feeding on them.
Make no mistake ALP did and again is is feeding that fire too, in fact pro Gillard anti Rudd forces drive these headlines.
My party must get the knifing over then get on with business.
A Bob Hawk is waiting to again repeat history as Liberals, as Big Mal did then fall from grace.

pericles Can you explain what is wrong with the economy.
There will not be a challenge.
Rudd supporters say not next week but one day.
Julia will sort this out monday, Rudd has been given notice, to attend Julia's office.

Pericles,

Do you think that major changes in the economy and class structure may have had something to do with it ? I did ten years in factories in the sixties and seventies and every one of those jobs would be gone by now, automated and computerised. And moved overseas.

In the meantime, thanks to Gough's free tertiary education, an entire class of rentier-salariat has been broadened immensely, ex-working class kids who - thirty and forty years later - are calculating their options, whether to vote Green out of nostalgia for their proletarian roots, or Coalition to protect and foster their current assets and future prospects.

In other words, the class-base for Labor has shrunk, with the aspirationals turning either right to the Coalition OR towards the Greens, THEN right to the Coalition; and the True Believer working-class waiting for the world to go back to what it used to be.

It could be a very memorable year.

Well, I for one, hope Belly is right.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Gillard can't afford to sack that useless git just yet because she still needs the vote of the mindless who support him.

make no mistake..Rudd put that vid out himself..it fuels the fire..feeds his ego..all whilst he's overseas talking crap at a G20 perk.

come back please Mark Latham. We thought you were bad but compared with the last two Labour leaders you were miles ahead. Please accept our apology and release us from the current rabble.

Some humour on the topic from:

Kevin Rudd - Sweary Man! (Anthony Ackroyd)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7rJmfTFM10

I reckon i have worked something out, Gillards disapproval is cosmetic.
It's not policy, that is holding up polls. People are happy with policy.
The voters are happy with Labor, the50%.
Who ever was leader is not a factor of voting.
I still say another hung parliament, in 18 months.
People are changing their mind about refuge processing.
People are happy with mining tax.
People are happy with means test medical.
Too early for carbon tax to be accessed.
All 215 bills passed, have caused no concern.

I'd be delighted, 579...

>>...pericles Can you explain what is wrong with the economy.<<

...but where shall I send it, and to whom do I make out the invoice?

I would imagine so, Loudmouth.

>>Pericles, Do you think that major changes in the economy and class structure may have had something to do with it?<<

They most definitely have changed the nature of employment, entirely. But I wouldn't consider that to be a valid excuse. What is missing is a certain adherence to a set of Labour-flavoured principles that don't necessarily appear front-and-centre of the capitalist canon. And a set of policies that is consistent with those values.

But in the age where individual venality on the part of our political class has been raised to an art-form, I guess it is just too much to expect. Our politicians of whatever stripe are collectively a bunch of overpaid, overprotected, over-superannuated gravy-train riders, who owe allegiance to themselves first, last and only. Even the concept of "party loyalty" has an anachronistic ring to it, which is why we see every Labour MP sniffing the wind to work out which leader would best garner their constituents' votes.

Policy-schmolicy. Which leader will keep me wallowing in juicy taxpayer-funded goodness for another four years...?

Be careful there 579, that stuff your smoking must be too strong for you, you're hallucinating.

Is 579 an aberation of Belly,or are they one but not the same?

Well it may not be the best manners but some remarks are, well un informed, and very wrong.
Rudd could not have put that out and did not.
I some times/well always, think we play in to others hands.
Letting shock jocks and the very rich and influence seekers think for us.
Sacking Rudd come surely anyone, at all, claiming an understanding knows he would challenge not once but until he had the numbers.
ALP voters, tell me, be honest how can Gillard EVER come back?
Anthonyv bank on it ,mate, this is my view, Rudd is every chance of unseating Gillard.
If he does not she will remove herself, after a landslide loss.
If that happens Rudd's time will end Shorten or another, riding on the back of a mountain of non core promises and broken ones.
Growing support for climate change action, taxing the poor to give tax breaks to the rich.
Liberals will remove them selves in the election after.
Labor remember, and note, is not as bad as painted, Gillards supporters serve her/them selves not my party.
Watch QANDA tonight our future PM Bill Shorten

Labor remember, and note, is not as bad as painted,
Belly,
You're in desperate need of an ice-cold shower. What else do they have to wreck before you'll concede ?

Indi You are not explaining yourself to well. What has labor wrecked. Or is this desperation comments.
Pericles is talking in riddles. He is that far out no one would know what is being said.

Sorry about that 579.

>>Pericles is talking in riddles. He is that far out no one would know what is being said.<<

I'll remember to talk more slowly next time.

I'm with 579 on this.
Exactly what has Labor wrecked, (excluding itself)?
Economy - one of the best performing in the developed world- tick
Public debt - one of the lowest in the developed world - tick
Unemployment - among the lowest in the developed world - tick
Number of bills passed, (a measure of how well the government is performing from a legislative standpoint) - higher than at any time under Howard - tick. And this with a minority government, quite remarkabe.
Got the mining tax through, which goes some way to countering thw two speed economy - tick.
If one stops drinking the Abbott/media Koolaid for a moment, and look at the facts, this government has done at least as well as any government in memory.
There is much to legitimately criticize it for, e.g. It couldn't sell cold drinks in the middle of the sahara desert, and it does seem to have a death wish, but as a performing government, its record is very good, going by measurable results
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Anthony,

"Exactly what has Labor wrecked, (excluding itself)?"

That's funny : )

66% support for the NBN. As this job progresses, the more people are in favor.
Mr Rudd caused an uproar on OLO yesterday, incorrect and unfounded. it's amazing how rumors circulate, when you have one eyed gerno's.
Mr abbott with all these pledges in blood will be the end of him.
Public opinion has moved on.
I would like to see Mr shorten one day be PM, he has real talent, and well spoken. Make a good statesman. AU has got to be very careful we get the right person for the job, or else we make a fool of ourself, in the eyes of the world.

What has labor wrecked.
579,
How about the Australia we had ?

You have never been better off than you are today, The Australia you used to have is all in your mind. It's a matter of realizing the difference between state and federal issues.

579 nobody, who was not employed in Julia's office could post this rubbish.

All you do is remind us how much we pay for her propaganda spin.

I think there should be a mask ball, with *Geelar & Wudd* doing the opening and closing dance. ;-)

..

OLO Poppets, sorry in some ways to drop this one on you, but I feel to share a moment of grief and .. well, not sure what word/s best to use at this moment so perhaps best not to try.

..

During our time in Nusa Dua, Bali (2008 - 2010) a local at that time and good friend to our daughter *....*, *Risna* (9 - 11yrs old) who attended our *Christ Mass* festivities and birthday parties, and who was oft bathed, groomed and fed by my Beloved in our home, ..

.. has been found dead and decapitated near Negara, Bali, alongside the intact but dead remains of her parents, post blood been found in their home and bloodied clothes near a local school.

Piecing together the details of the tragedy is a matter of ongoing investigation according to local Indonesian news outlets.

:-(

While extremely sad Dream on what has it got to do with this thread.
Why the all encompassing insult to posters here.
Can it be you blame Gillard for this event?
Anthonyv yes indeed I agree.
We must consider some views,individuals for sure, come from failure to understand.
And sadly, truth is this beat up is fueled by failures.
I remain proud of Labor,and aware once defeated many more will understand how good they have been.
A SPOTLIGHT MUST BE TURNED ON POLICY'S THE OTHER SIDE OPENLY SPEAK OF THAT WILL DO GREAT HARM.

some smartie should pay newspoll to show Labour ahead 52/48 which would ensure an election next week. Then we could be rid of this saga.

Runner old boy, but you do not know what you would be voting for.
The noalition have not got a policy in the wild as yet, and may not have any. So haw can you take any notice of polls without any policy.
When policy is eventually submitted, and properly costed of course. We can judge. Until then you are advocating a mirage. Something that is not there, and may never be.

I listed some of this Labor' government's successes and achievements.
There has been much comment to the contrary.
I notice though that these comments are all bile and rhetoric, yet they lack a single example, a single clear piece of evidence of what it is that Labor has supposedly "wrecked".
Could it be that blind and baseless hatred has replaced rational analysis?
No, surely not.
Well, maybe.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

579

I would be voting for what Ms Gillard promised. No carbon tax and no 'gay' marriage and for stopping people killing themselves coming here on boats. All these things Ms Gillard promised. Unfortunately she lied to the people on all these. It is very doubtful you would get worse. What also will be nice is for the sleazy unethical independants to get the boot for pooing on their electorates especially after their self righteous rants about ethics etc. I am very confident many more would also vote along these lines as the polls constintently remind you and the Government.

*Holy Ground* .. for now.. *Pork Belly*

..

Other than to say, perhaps you may care to consider making a formal complaint?

I note in that regard that since commencing writing under the alias of *DreamOn* that I have only ever been censured once,

(temporarily)

when I willingly succumbed to the temptation (it was a rare opportunity for me) of cracking a Monty Python joke at a sensitive moment, as it pertained to an OLO crime so heinous, as to bare not repeating again.

*JeHovah, JeHovah, JeHovah*

579, you ask what is wrong with the economy.

Well, as I see it, the government is looking behind themselves, not forward. At ,east that's when they are not watching their backs to see who's holding a knife, or being over caucious, trying not to step on some independents dick, or even one from within who almost on a daily basis threatens to withdraw their support.

While all this back patting and back stabbing is going on, most of which adds frustration to the many thousands about to loose their jobs.

What's worse, is they continue to have this 'how clever are we crap' , or, we are the envy of the world rubbish, rammed down their necks.

Little of which means anything when you face the prospect of being out of work, with a slim chance of getting a new job, mainly because $80 grand a year, 2 weeks on 2 weeks off seems to be the new norm.

Add to this where we are today, where we came from and how much we are borrowing, and you should get some idea of why many mock labor and their take on our economy.

As I say, the best way to look good, is to be surrounded by those who are bad, EU and the US as examples.

Now while you may be happy to see your retirement future, either shared with illegals, or wasted in some other manner, I, along with many have had a gut full of these incompetent, infighting, out of control morons.

Bring on an election so we can have a majority government with a real purpose.

Considering your comments *RehcTub* I also suspect that we are not as clever as some profess to be and that we do actually share in common fundamental problems with some of the degenerative and in decline societies of the European block and North America and perhaps are relatively merely fortunate in the fact that we have a large G.D.P. and a small population.

..

Regarding the ALP stimulus measure which boosted pensions and benefits, for my 2c worth I was and remain of the view that this was a beneficial thing to do, except to the extent that they did not make at least commensurate cuts to the top end.

.. Which end to break your eggs at in the words of one of ABC's comedy skits ..

In that regard, some good measures to take, perhaps implemented gradually over time to ameliorate the impact would be in my view:

1. No public servant member or private consultant/contractor to receive more than a maximum of 75% of his or her Minister's base rate.

2. Install universal coverage best practice medicine as opposed to a system predicated on $

i.e. you pay we fix you, you no pay, we no fix you

Perhaps something like the entire medical industry including dentistry and research back on a fixed price, means tested, sustainable system, with the only exceptions being professional excellence and those who genuinely have an international level good or service that brings wealth into the country, (and they are to be encouraged) but they would still have to service the local economy as a priority based on the new enhanced MediCare schedule.

The performers who drive the additional wealth generation of the fund/diversified funds to be provided incentive bonuses only as a measure that they generate above and beyond the standard required for sustainability

3. Same principal for the lawyers.

Of course, mainstream politics appears to prefer the human scrap heap, entrenched disadvantage, some treated and some not, some represented and most not, and as always, in the alternative, I merely suggest voting other than red or blue.

Dream On, in your three posts in just this thread you hurled feeble insults.
Twice at me then Rechtub, I am aware you have issues.
Others may not.
Mate this is not a brick wall to be covered by scribble, well maybe if it had some substance.
Get well bloke, first know pork Belly is sorry for you.
Yes Anthonyv , seems we agree often, the mud being throw sticks only in the minds of the under informed.
Maybe, just maybe, it is fear that drives some.
Gillard has failed, peoples forum, cash for clunkers,failed to imagine
Remove the possibility some will replace her and you hand conservatives victory.
At a time Medea is uninterested in reminding us of the proposed cuts in education health pensions and raising middle class welfare?

The labor caucus room probably has this big chocolate wheel, with the likes of Gillard, Rudd, Shorten, even Creen on it.

The worrying part of this picture is the centre of the wheel, that being we, the people, are being turned head over heels repeatedly, as the wheel continues to turn just waiting to see who is the chosen one.

Usually, the auto pilot function, which is the mode we are currently in, is reserved for times of election campaigns, when governments go into caretaker mode.

Perhaps there's a message in that hey!

Dream on.
I, unlike many don't have a problem with some of labor's ideas, it's just that they didn't have what it took to implement them.

Now that's not a crime, but the crime was committed when they either refused expert advice, or chose to ignor it, time and time again.

Insulation, the stimulus and live exports to mention just a few.

Butch you have a ton of wood sitting on one shoulder.
Do not worry yourself at what is going around, it is not affecting the process of government.
All you want is an election, but there is nothing to vote for. The noalition does not have any policies. When we see some we can judge.
So keep cool and get on with your work, and let Julia get on with hers.
Don't allow borrowings worry you, until you can understand what these borrowings are for. You may be denying some mining firm, another reason to eliminate some more staff.

579,
You said to Butch, "Do not worry yourself at what is going around, it is not affecting the process of government"

How do you come to that conclusion? The examples given reflect the amount of debt we now have, because this government has wasted billions. You simply disregard this, but debt has to be repaid and with interest, so what is the legacy that our decendants are left with.

There are many more examples of incompedence by this government. In fact there are about 50 great stuff ups and you claim it does not affect the process of government. This government, under either Rudd or Gillard, has no concept of economic management.

Your conclusions show your incapacity to think and your lack of care for future Aussies.

Banjo,
Reality fix.
Even after the eminently sensible use of debt to minimise the effect of the GFC on Australians, Australia has almost the lowest public debt of any developed country in the western world.
Double it and we would still have one of the lowest debt levels.
Sorry to put facts in the way of your theory, but the numbers are what they are, hyperbole notwithstanding.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Bango, the borrowings have been discussed.
Unless you can get a breakdown of who owes what, you can not judge.
The govt; borrows money on behalf of mining and other businesses that need money to expand. The govt is guarantor. This money is eventually paid back in due course.
The treasury is comfortable with foreign debt, and so should you be.

After 4 years of financial mismanagement and policy incompetence by Labor, that the economy is in relatively good shape has more to do with the sterling condition labor inherited it.

Hardly anything Labor has touched has not been a stuff up from the fair work act, to health, to border protection, to the school hall rip off, the list goes on. It is no wonder the coalition is by far the country's preferred economic managers.

Anton and 579 what an interesting view point you both have.

Now let me get this right, you say that what is going on is not effecting labor's governing.
So, considering most of the stuff ups, and there have been many, were committed while government was not distracted by their infighting, how on earth could they have got things so wrong, especially if they are so clever as you say.

As I say, they are incompitent.

My second point is, you say that we are I great shape.

So, let's go back four five years ago, from where we started, to where we ar today, then apply more of the same reckless mismanagement.

Where do you think we might be then.

As I say, what's in the past is history, but what's in the future, and how it's handles can be life changing.

This is why, like it or not, labor are going to get flogged here in QLD and federally, unless of cause they come up with some miracle.

Now ask yourself not whether the libs have what it takes, but whether labor deserve another chance and, whether we are willing to take that risk.

We will judge when the noalition put up some policies, until then stay calm.
Polls mean nothing until we have policies.
Qld is a basket case and always was, to many Joe years.

215 bills passed, an all time record.
9112 agreements reached by FWA last year.
Jobs and economic growth top priority.
Major reform of new economy.
Greatest transformation in history.
66% support for the NBN
Digital economy
5.1% unemployment best in nations history.

I believe to the contrary *Pork belly* that it is rather you that have the problem. The reason that I say that is as follows:

1. You claimed over and over that I have been writing under multiple aliases, and consistent with your other baseless and fanciful interpretations, you have been unable to substantiate this. The reason of course that you are unable to do evidence this is that it is factually incorrect. But akin to a religious fanatic, you cling desperately to your false and delusional beliefs.

2. Your writing is often difficult to understand, barely coherent and clearly broken Australian english. I do not judge you adversely for that however. I am a rather skilled communicator who is used to communicating with ESL learners and have always valued that which people are trying to convey, above and beyond the way in which they say it. However, as I cannot recall you ever substantiating any of your claims in a generally accepted manner, it is difficult to accept without criticism some of what I consider to be your more outlandish assertions.

3. You claim that I have insulted *RehcTub* though I cannot see how. Rather, I am supportive of a number of his views, and verily at an earlier time in my life was a "young turk liberal" at heart, but have departed from some of those ideals in the moral/social/ethical dimensions. Based on his response, I do not believe that he interpreted my comments as an insult, but consider that your misinterpretation is likely to be a combination of fervent delusional wannabe belief and basic language skills. Keep at it though as places like this certainly can assist in sharpening your skills.

4. To detain children indefinitely without charge or trial in circumstances medically evidenced to promote mental illness constitutes child abuse in my book and the perpetrators consequently are child abusers in my view, worthy of contempt of the highest order and that extends to those individuals perhaps like yourself *Pork Belly* and some catholics and others who seek to hide the truth of this.

5. If one is to hearken to history, fable and mythology, "evil" for want of a better term (and that includes child abusers in my book *Pork Belly*) invariably ends up turning upon itself, so it is no surprise to me to see your pathetic, dysfunctional ALP tearing itself apart. I actually find it extremely amusing, and would counsel the others to stand at a distance from it, so to speak, so as not to distract them, and perhaps consider offering quality policy ideas as an alternative. HaHaHa

6. I am pleased (though somewhat still shocked & saddened) to report that the Indo police believe that they have caught one of the murderers of our friends and obtained a partial confession. They are a very capable people when they can be bothered and it has been my pleasure to be enriched by them. That is not to say they as a nation like all others do not have their share of foul, loathsome, little trolls, but on balance, I am very fond of them.

7. Incidentally, the gossip on the street in Bali was that the price of securing "Weed Boys" release was a payment of some $AU300,000. Now whilst I admit that I do not know the truth of this, it was further alleged that at least one other certified Australian journalist is also aware of this. If true of course, that certainly has the appearance of the *Geelar Guvment* playing fast and loose with Australia's extra territorial anti corruption laws.

8. As amply shown by 4 Corners recently, *Geelar* is certainly capable of lieing her box off when it suits her, treacherous and power hungry in the extreme, and contemptuos of the law as evidenced by her performance post the High Court ruling in relation to the Malaysian Asylum Seeker swap debarcle.

No, she has to go, and if the ALP do not do it, then no doubt judging by the polls the public will.

Arjay, look at your post we all must know?
I have no idea why you try to think for us.
And do not wish to try to understand.

Rudd resigns: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-22/kevin-rudd-makes-press-conference/3845758?WT.svl=news0

Now the decks are clear. Gillard Vs Abbott. This will test Gillard, instead of standing on Rudd's political assination she will be scrutinized with greater clarity

Hardly think so, Rainier. Rudd is now free to roam around the edges, causing all sorts of havoc, and as the one wronged, mistreated, mistrusted, misunderstood. Can you imagine the pressure Bligh will be trying to put on Gillard now, to settle this before the Qld election ?

If Monty Python had made a cowboys and Indians movie, with one Indian circling the wagons and knocking a couple of coconut-halves together, this would be it.

This does not seem to have cleared the decks in my view either.

So far Labor does not seem to have produced any hard evidence of Rudd doing the wrong thing (although most believe that he has done so). There is also a strong perception that Gillard ran a campaign undermining him prior to taking over so the talk of loyalty seems very hollow.

There only real chance for them would seem to be for Gillard to step down and someone to get the PM's role who's not been closely involved in any of that history and who is a contrast to Abbott. A genuine changing of the guard.

I doubt that Gillard or the vested interests would be willing for that to happen so Tony is a shoe in if he does not make any major stuff up's.

R0bert

Rainer seems a typical rusted on Labour party supporter who just does not get it. He writes

'Now the decks are clear. Gillard Vs Abbott'

No its rotten policy like illegal arrivals and a deceitful carbon tax that has swung the public. Bob Hawke could not win for Labour with such idiotic Government policy. It is not Abbott the people will vote for but the demise of tremendous Government wastage and the destruction of industry through deceitful taxes. Even Turnbull found that out with him swallowing the idiotic gw scam. Hopefully he is not a slow learner like Gillard.

Runner: its a long time since I voted Labor, may have been back in the late 70's/early eighties, when unions (I was an APTU member)meant something for working blokes and their families. Believe it or there exists many like me who believe in old school social justice ideals, a fair go, and the need to always look after the most vulnerable in our communities. If you think Labor is leftist, then you've got a lot to learn about what really matters for ordinary grassroots people. In my professional life I've had to negotiate with successive state and federal ministers - and to tell the truth the better ones were from conservative parties. At the end of the day, it comes down to very simple ideals about what government can do,(and mostly not) about many of our social, economic and cultural matters. Your simplistic dichotomy of Left and Right might be useful for you to launch yourself into discussion here on OLO, but it means jack sheet out there on street, in our communities, dealing with real issues.

Rainier and Runner,

Here's an outside bet:

* Somebody other than EITHER Gillard OR Rudd vs Abbott

at an April election.

What are the odds ?

Loudmouth, yes I think you're on to something there: but it would need to be someone who can convince the electorate that Labor is no longer run by factions and its hard to pick someone (other than Faulker) who has the political vintage and intellectual rigor required. Keating lamented about the absence of a big picture narrative and I agree. Gillard's 'getting on the work to be done' is not enough. We need more than bureacrats pretending to be leaders.

* Latham reckons its Stephen Smith but he's from WA (that other country). I'd vote for Humphrey B Bear or Bob Ellis if they threw their hat into the ring, anyone but some trumpt up cyborg from the rank and file Labor factions. Queensland Labor is infested with these career politicians - all of them with big heads and no brains.

Well, i didn't suggest that either Gillard or Rudd or x woud win the next election for Labour, I think they're gone. So if I were Shorten, I would knock back any kind offer of leadership, wait for the dust to settle after the next election, modestly take it then, and then work like buggery to build the Labor Party for an election win in 2018 or so.

Politics must be a strange business: on the one hand, yes, a week is a long time in politics etc., but building a winning party needs enormous patience and endurance over many years.

A bit like waiting for positive results in Indigenous affairs, really. A hundred Indigenous university graduates back in 1970 and 28,000-30,000 graduates now. Fifty thousand Indigenous university graduates - one in every six adults - by 2020-2022. One hundred thousand graduates - one in every four adults - by 2034-2035.

And always with the hope and faith that all that effort will have been worthwhile, that it will transform the Indigenous community and the place of Indigenous people in Australia's open society.

Suddenly I sympathise with Bill Shorten :)

Loudmouth, Rainier, anyone who took that on would be on a hiding to nothing. I don't think even JC could turn Labor around quickly, & believably enough to win. Anyone who tries it has, most probably, shot their bolt. Smart players would keep their powder dry for a better time.

Most of these blokes only get one shot. Howard only got two because he was very good, but even more important, very lucky with circumstances & timing.

After the next election, I reckon it will be at least three failures, before a Labor leader has a real chance again. By then a few state libs should be in trouble, & most folk will have forgotten just how bad Labor is at a federal level.

Loudmouth I sure hope you are wrong with your predictions for university graduates by 2022, & even more so for 2034.

We currently have people with below average results from year 12, [down to OP15 in science courses for gods sake], winning university places in the first round of offers. I doubt that anyone below the top 15 or 20% have any chance of absorbing much math, let alone physics.

We need a change in recognition of the trades, & their importance. At least the remuneration for the work has caught up. After all, we can't keep cutting class sizes, just to take up a host of almost useless graduates as teachers, & our councils all ready have more than enough glorified clerks.

What we need by 2020 is to reduce the higher education sector by around 50%. We could end up back where we used to be, with smart people, finding better ways of doing things, because smart people actually did things. By the way, do you think many of those B grade academics could learn how to use a shovel?

Has been, you are right, however I think this is grounds for a new thread.

You see ever since self assessment came into effect in apprenticeships, the bar was lowered.

Take butchery for an example, not the hardest trade out there, yet one can come through having only done each core duty only once.

I have had butchers turn up for work that only had a basic level of knowledge about their job, yet expected to be paid as a tradesman.

What is needed to improve skills are levels within trades.

It is simply not fair for a fresh tradesman to command the same pay rate as a seasoned tradesman, yet the system does not allow for this.

Even now, knowing we have a jobs skills crisis, the breaking down of a beef carcass, a duty that one would expect essential in this trade, has been made optional.

Yet, if you have a trade, you can enroll for many uni courses that would have otherwise been out of your depths.

But as for labor, I doubt I will see them in power again for decades, if ever again.

So 579, do you still hold the view that our government is not in cruise control mode.

579 you should understand this, Rechtub may well be a good bloke.
But his understanding of politics comes from the news print he wraps the meat in.
It is off cuts from the news rolls used to print on and is blank.
If Gillard wins, then let my party bleed now, only after the fall can we raise.
At least 5 should leave Parliament and end forever, the control of out siders on my party.
Australia is never going to want Gillard.

Rudd on the backburner to simmer down. Eventually shorten will get the nod from Julia that is my prediction. It may take another 12 months.

Now take butchery, Persons like butch would vote for anyone that does not have a policy. Even though our economy is moving along very well. 215 bill through parliament. an incredible record. He just doesn't like a female in front.

Rudd's so tired of the politics of division that he felt it appropriate to take a swipe at Abbott while expressing his concerns on the issue.

Tony should of course stop being negative and divisive, it's Ok for Labor apparently.

R0bert

Rudd has made the correct decision to move to the back bench where he is no longer has to support the PM, and is free to say what he wants.

Yesterday upon the stair,
I saw a leadership challenge that wasn't there,
I wish it wasn't there again today,
Oh how I wish he'd go away.

Mr Rudd has cooked his goose. A first class world traveller to the back bench, where he can Yell abuse just like the noalition decipels.

579, firstly, you have no right to accuse me of not wanting a female as our leader.

Just to show how out of touch the faceless men are within labor, if a ballot were held by the general public, Rudd would flog Gilard hands down.

It's just that labor don't govern for the better of the people, rather, they prefer to sit in the background, pulling the strigs of their puppets.

I also suspect that this ballot may have dire consequences, such as, the likes of Doug Cameron, who has little faith in GJ and if Rudd challenges, and fails, Cameron and co may well pull the pin.

Either way, we may end up getting what we deserve, which is the most sensible solution of all, AN ELECTION.

Now as for my sparing partner, Belly, well his standard opinion of me is that I am il informed.

Was I il informed when I predicted Julia would have Rudds job?

Or, when I predicted the new IR laws would slash confidence?

Or, that the alcohol pop tax would not stop binge drinking?

Or, that the Copenhargen summit would be a dud?

Do I have to go on.

Il informed, you're joking!

Perhaps it you Belly who should take the blinkers off and look around at what is actually going on out there, not in unionized labor land, but in real, on the ground life.

579 good to see you are an ALP supporter.
But your depth of understanding is shallow, do not consider swimming its not that deep.
Rudd has by his actions got rid of Gillard.
The only place she has the numbers is in Labor Caucus.
And a victory to her will only be putting her end off for a while.
Shorten will be pushed to do this, even parliamentary Janitor may.
Gillards polling, out side Caucus by Monday will be at its lowest ever.
And never again will it rise.
Monday nine am caucus votes in self interest or in the interests of the party, I watch with interest

My understanding as a voter is. We are in excellent shape as a nation.
Our economy is great. Many changes have taken place all for the better.
No matter who is head of the labor party, we are doing fine.
No coalition voter would see that, they would vote for a party without policy.
I do not think Abbott would make a statesman's backside, in fact i think he would be dangerous. I do not agree with his religious or his ambition to create Australia's 1%
Maybe it may be best for labor to let abbott have the parliament, without policy, that would surely put pressure on the G

Sorry but my dreams too often turned to mud.
Bought about by thinking Joe and Jane average votes based on other than quick and not deep wishes.
Labor,at best with Rudd can only save some seats.
Under Gillard? 579 she would not win a raffle.
Labor should sack Gillard, she, closely linked to Crean the Cretin no doubt , undermined herself to try to manipulate folk like you.
Only the best must serve.
Gillard should serve the tea and bickies then get out as soon as she can.

Hmmm .. from PM -> to -> FM -> to the back bench.

..

Maybe better to sp!t the dummy, resign and force a bi-election if it comes to it.

..

Q: *KruddCoNon* what is best in life?

A: Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and hear the lamentation of the Red Headed woman!

;-)

It's a fascinating confrontation.
On the one hand we have Rudd, a superb campaigner who ate Howard's lunch, but who turned out to be quite a poor Parliamentary leader and manager.
Then we have Gillard, who I think even her worst enemies would admit, has got things done under extremely difficult circumstances and has shown herself to be a competent leader and manager.
Unfortunatly, Gillard has been quite hopeless at campaigning and so has failed to sell the electorate on her achievements.
Bottom line, Gillard and Rudd have two different skill sets but a successful PM needs both skill sets, which has left me concluding that neither of them can do the job at the level needed.
But I'd add two riders to that comment.
First, either Gillard or Rudd on their worst days, would be vastly superior to Abbott who has nothing to offer other than warmed over US Republican failed ideologies.
And second, I just watched Gillard's press conference in response to Rudd's earlier conference. It certainly was a different, more direct and convincing Julia.
If she is successful and goes after Abbott the way she went after Rudd this afternoon, and if she's given a year and a half before an election, maybe, just maybe, she could pull this thing off.
Because, when you get past Abbott's banal negativity, Gillard's claim that she has a track record of achievement under the most difficult of circumstances, is a valid one.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Anthonyve I can't see a single thing that Julia has done, other that is than take orders from Bob Brown.

If you're happy with her performance you must be a green voter.

Hi Hasbeen,
I can do no more than to restate part of an earlier post of mine

Economy - one of the best performing in the developed world- tick
Public debt - one of the lowest in the developed world - tick
Unemployment - among the lowest in the developed world - tick
Number of bills passed, (a measure of how well the government is performing from a legislative standpoint) - higher than at any time under Howard - tick. And this with a minority government, quite remarkabe.
Got the mining tax through, which goes some way to countering the two speed economy - tick.
If one stops drinking the Abbott/media Koolaid for a moment, and look at the facts, this government has done at least as well as any government in memory.
There is much to legitimately criticize it for, e.g. It couldn't sell cold drinks in the middle of the sahara desert, and it does seem to have a death wish, but as a performing government, its record is very good, going by measurable results

And I would add this: I would vote Green in a heartbeat before I would vote for Abbott.
I do not agree with all Green policies, maybe not even most, but I respect the Greens for one thing. They are not driven by the poll-of-the-day. They have a stated set of core values and every position they take is consistent with those values.
Integriy - something which Abbott has not an iota of - is worth something.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Ant,

Much of what Juliar has passed are policies that she promised she wouldn't, and mostly consist of new taxes.

Labor's economic performance is mediocre at best with atrocious levels of waste, and bungling.

I believe that Rudd has saved his major torpedos to fire into Juliar at the last moment. However, that she was firmly against the ETS is a good start.

Just to help you see the wood that you don't appear to find in the trees.

The economy is all previous work, & Browns laws she has passed, carbon tax & mining tax, will soon fix all that.

Unemployment, only low by ABS figures & they are under considerable doubt. True un/under employment is about 10%, just like the US.

Yes heaps of bills passed. Bob had a big list of economy destroying bills he demanded passes, if she wanted the lodge. She wanted that so much she was drooling.

I had assumed you did vote green, you are so misguided in your ideas, they would have to appeal to you. You had better vote for them next time, with the number of voters they are loosing, they just may jump off a cliff, after the next election.

Ah Hasbeen,
You seem like a lovely fella.
Pity you know as little about history as you do about economics.
But keep trying.
Cheers,
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

And dear shadow,

If you have nothing better to offer than a childish epithet like, "Juliar" which you begged, borrowed or stole from good old head-on-a-stick Alan Jones, then you have little to contribute indeed.
Cheers,
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Here's a thought, Greg Combet will nominate and split the Rudd / Gillard vote. A Labor coalition / truce between the factional head kickers and the true believers. A Labor Troika.

Ant,

The nickname Juliar is particularly apt, as her reputation for broken promises, back flips and back stabbing is now well established. Considering she advised Rudd not to pursue the ETS and promised the electorate no carbon tax, how is that going?

Similarly if all you can do is reel off the labor party line of half truths, then you have very little to contribute.

I see that you didn't mention my comment that Rudd is probably saving his big guns until last.

Hi Shadow Minister,
I have no particular barrow to push for Gillard, but I'm fascinated by your defence of the epithet "Juliar".

So, I have three questions to put to you.

1. Can you name a single political leader who has not lied about his or her policy intent at one time or another?

2. Where was your passion for political honesty and where was your ourtrage when Howard knowingly lied to take us into the Iraq war in which Australian soldiers were killed, and when Howard knowingly lied about refugees throwing children overboard, given that his having lied was proven beyond dispute long ago?

3. Why then do you seek to hold Gillard to a higher standard of political integrity than than any other Australian Prime Minister?

I would also note the irony that Alan Jones, who is generally credited with first using that particular insult, is himself a proven liar, as demonstrated by the Cash For Comments investigation and subsequent finding against him, among many other things.

BTW, my apolgies about the abreviation of your user name - poor proofreading, my bad.

Cheers,
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au
Cheers,

Monday the 27th February: Rumble in the Jungle?

More like feather dusters at 10 paces.

Albenese has thrown his bolshi wieght behind Rudd, clearly the whole event is staged managed for bolster Gillard's cred. (or is this it?

Make not mistake, Rudd's hubris is real, he truly believes he is the Mesiah, or a modern day Dietrich Bonhoeffer even.

The question for Labor is how to use this momentum to their advantage, especially in the state of Qld where Bligh is floundering.

Another butchering of Rudd will only compound what many already think of both Gillard and Labor.

Ant,

Thanks for acknowledging that Julia Gillard is a liar, Your examples are either conjecture on your part or simply comparing apples with oranges.

The sheer breath taking audacity of Juliar's deceit has never been equalled. Breaking a solemn promise to electorate on the carbon tax within weeks has never been equalled, neither was the contract signed with Wilkie.

As for your half truths on the "successes" of Labor, the polls show that most of the voters are not stupid enough to buy it. Abbott is now clearly the preferred PM.

Hi shadow minister,
Avoided the questions I see.
I guess you were unable to confront the reality of your own hypocracy.
Can't say I'm surprised.
But they're still there any time you find the courage to face them.
Or, perhaps I'll take a shot at answering them for you.
A dash of misogyny, perhaps...
Cheers,
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Ant,

Pity you aren't sufficiently literate to realise that I did answer the questions. However, I did not descend to the point of nit picking through your haze of half truths and conjecture.

By whatever standard is used the sheer bald faced lies and broken promises that Juliar perpetuated has reached new heights.

As Kevin Rudd said, politics is about trust, and Juliar has lost the trust of the people.

<< As Kevin Rudd said, politics is about trust, and Juliar has lost the trust of the people. >>

And Krudd hasn't??

I don't understand the incredibly narrow focus of this Rudd - Gillard Wrangle. There just doesn't seem to be the slightest thought from anybody about who else could be a better leader. Trouble is, anyone in Labor who could be a good leader - and there are at least a couple - are smart enough to stay right away from it!

Neither does there seem to be any mention of the political philosophy. It's all about the leader and who can best defeat Abbott. But surely, getting the political philosophy right, in a way that clicks with the votership, is the all-important thing.

In this regard, Labor would be well-advised to listen very closely to one of their own - Kelvin Thomson, who is the only Federal MP to see the absurdity of continuous growth and really push a reformist sustainabiliy-oriented agenda.

If this was a popularity vote we would have kylie minogue running the country.
Julia is by far the stronger leader.
If they want a change i think bill shorten would be well placed.
The opposition have not released any policies as yet so no one knows what they are polling on.
Tony abbott will turn a lot of people off, when it comes to a vote.