we'd all need secretaries, wouldn't that be good. how would you pay your secretary, Arjay.

Arjay,

You might have a point there about bartering systems. The main problem is how to calculate equivalence in the value of different, exchangeable, commodities, and the way that societies have been doing this for a few thousand years is to agree on some common exchangeable commodity.

Pretty quickly they found that one could not use a bulky commodity (cabbages), or one which perished (lumps of meat), or one which could be easily consumed (food) or burnt (wood) or would corrode (iron goods). In effect, they needed some sort of good which was otherwise pretty useless, except perhaps for ornament.

But they needed something which was rare, but not rare enough to be unattainable, and something which could be turned into a portable, valuable, mutually-agree but otherwise-useless commodity, so silver got the running. It was gradually replaced by gold as a form of common exchangeable value, or currency. And you know the rest.

It's actually fairly impractical to browse around a market-place pushing a wheelbarrow full of cabbages, particularly if there is another bloke with a wheelbarrow full of even better cabbages.

Cheers,

Joe

But Arjay, if the banks are sucking the lifeblood out of your
productivity, what on earth are you doing using them? Cancel
your bank account, cut up your credit card, store gold or silver
under the bed, just like UOG!

The banking system that I use, is very efficient and very low
cost to me. Its getting better all the time too. I used to have
to sit down each week and write out a whole lot of cheques, put
stamps on envelopes, mail them out etc. No more. With a few
clicks of my mouse, I can pay anyone, anywhere, for nearly zilch.
All with free software from my bank. Oops sorry, I do pay 6$ a
month in bank fees.

I've had a Visa card for as long as I can remember and have never
paid a cent in interest on it. I have an eftpos card which means
I don't even need to go the the bank auto teller, but withdraw
cash from Coles, when I go shopping. Again no charges to me.

I sometimes buy shares online through the bank. Brokers would charge
me 100-200$. The bank charges 25$. Again a bargain.

I can buy a song from America for a dollar. I can buy goods from
Hong Kong online, pay safely for both me and the supplier, all
via our banking system.

Where am I losing in productivity?

Yabby,at the moment I have few options.I use the Bendigo for my business but our banks in reality are sub-servants to the really big power brokers in the international scam.

You see Yabby the big bankster scammers have loaded up all our private banks with their derivative debt cons.All of our banks here have derivative debt which will bring them asunder when the criminals pull the really big pin.The NAB borrowed 3 billion we know of from the US Fed.

Just recently the Syd Morning Herald was denied info under the Freedom of Information Act on the Aust banking industry.Our Gillard Govt denied this info under the auspices of "National Security". Our banks are not that secure and this is echoed by the RBA who have refused to reduce rates even though Canada who have a similar economy to us ,have rate 4% lower.

So what's happening Yabby? Our banks are no smarter than the European or USA banks.These small retail banks in which we the plebs have our savings,have been sucked in also.They make piddling profits compared to the really big players.

Fanny May and Freddie Mac,were levered to 331:1 at one stage and our super funds bought into this scam.

Arjay, sounds to me that you believe that our banks are about
to collapse. If you really believe that, what on earth are you doing,
with your savings in the Bendigo? You are free to buy gold, silver,
farmland or anything else that you feel is a good longterm store of
value.

Yes, our banks deal in derivatives, as they should. Anyone who exports
would use their services, for currency hedging. Farmers hedge their
grain prices through derivatives. It seems to me
that you are throwing investment banks and retail deposit banks all
into the one pile, because of the word "bank". They are quite
different.

*The NAB borrowed 3 billion we know of from the US Fed.*

Err, so what? 3 billion is chicken feed, given what we borrow
overseas. It would have been at a time of a liquidity crisis.
The job of Reserve banks is to keep the economy ticking over, with
enough liquidity.

*Our banks are not that secure and this is echoed by the RBA who have refused to reduce rates even though Canada who have a similar economy to us ,have rate 4% lower.*

The worst thing that our RBA could do is lower rates. It would only
increase house prices and our house prices are already 30% overvalued.
We'd frankly be better off with cheaper houses, so if Sydney house
prices drop 20%, it can only do long term good for our economy.

*They make piddling profits compared to the really big players.*

Our banks are making average to a bit above average returns on
capital. Any less and they would have no investors to bankroll them.
Woolies, BHP etc, achieve a better return on capital.

*Fanny May and Freddie Mac,were levered to 331:1 at one stage*

Indeed, the Fanny and Freddie story is a scandal, but they are not
really banks. More like semi Govt US institutions, where American
politicians were sucked in, with big payouts to people like Newt
Gingrich, who the American people are now considering for Prez.
Don't blame the banking system for that, blame dumb American voters.

i agree with yabbie..that all banks arnt 'banks'
and that largly..the problem isnt bankers..but those clever guys..who leverage..their..'product'..off others products...

the mob who can 'buy'..a sewer [sew-rage]..system..off your local council...then rent it back to them..[with instant default systems..reverting lower intrest..into default intrest...or oftem a demand..for the whole lot payed back instantly

thats much like them 'intrest free'..scams
that kick in the instant you miss one payment

but its worse than that even..]
those bundled contracts/mortgauges..etc
bundled with other 'products'..other promises..
and default insurances commisions/bonus kickbacks..etc

they are the real criminals
but worse is the ratings agencies
that rate..suss [product]...AAA+..

that then must be bought
by your pension provider...by other's
like banking regs...made bying govt bonds..part of their liquidity provisions [compulsory]...cause their are underwrittten..by the peons

paying compulsory tax..
conpulsory super..compulsorry insurances
compulsory fines levies fees base charges tolls taxes