As reported in the news today, China is starting with a token carbon price to mollify its critics. It has shown up the idiot policy of the Greens/Labor to be way ahead of the rest of the world.

"The starting carbon price of $1.55 (10 yuan) from the world's biggest carbon-emitting economy has reignited business concern that Australia's $23-a-tonne starting price from July 1 is too high and will damage business competitiveness.

State-run Chinese media reported that proposals for a new environmental taxation system had already been submitted for review to the Ministry of Finance and were expected to be implemented before the end of the 2011-15 five-year plan.

Australian Climate Change Action advocates expressed cautious optimism about the Chinese reports - arguing that it showed Australia's carbon tax was in front of other international efforts - while critics said the low starting price showed the Australian price was too high."

This is what can happen you you rush in, aiming to the the first cab off the rank.

If this fool of a leader we have as any decency at all, she will go back to the drawing board and come up with a number in line with China. That's provided China doesn't decide to not proceed, which is on the cards.

But i doubt we will see much action here SM, as for most here labor can do no wrong.

Mathematics not your strong point are they Shadow Minister.
Given average incomes and internal prices China can not be expected to charge the same rates as us.
Still ten out of ten for fear mongering and making use of any tool available to get your point launched.

And doesn't that tell you something belly, low wages for the unskilled and a booming economy.

In any case, wages has little to do with it as it is business who once again pays the cost, not the workers.

Now are you suggesting that the Cineese businesses are that less profitable than here.

Our businesses are paying almost 15 times the price of the proposed china plan.

Are we 15 times more profitable?

But the underlying problem still remains, that being, can labor manage this withou stuffing it up.

Let's face it, even the likes of yourself have to admit they have a lousy record in this department.

Belly,

With all due respect, if the carbon tax is to be charged on the "big polluters" --and the Gillard govt has assured us that Australia's will have minimal impact on ground level consumers. And preliminary reports indicate that China's will function in much the same way.
Why on earth would it matter what the *average income* is?

If it is all about *cutting CO2 emissions* surely one would expect China --"which tops the list CO2 emitting countries"-- to be way out in front of OZ.

Instead what we have is -- Australia, dutifully playing the role of a shag on the rock--lumbered with one the biggest carbon taxes in the world, and China talking about one the smallest.

And another thing of concern is that this new *environmentally conscious China* has just announced that it will, quote:
<< boycott a new European Union tax on airline carbon emissions, becoming the latest in a line of countries to challenge the law>>
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-01-06/china-eu-airline-emissions-tax/3761122/?site=sydney

The Gillard's govt approach to the carbon tax has all the hallmarks on its handling of the Indonesian live meat export fiasco.
A big gesture (designed to impress the Greens) with little thought paid to how it will impact on Australian industries & workers.
http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8278982

And there he is, SM was the one saying it needed to be $40 / ton before it made any difference. What has China got to do with this country, it is just a figure. They probably pay $1 for a kg of steak, there is no comparison.

Belly,

As you are so obviously ignorant of Maths, coal is an internationally traded commodity, and while prices may vary within a small range, the cost of power generation is not 14x more expensive in Aus. Possible 2x.

The same applies for renewables and Nuclear.

Maybe the Price in the EU of $8/ton is more comparable.

In all cases as 579 mentioned, these will have little to no effect unless it makes alternative generation viable. This is $40/t in Aus, and probably only $20 in China.

you can still here the echo's
how..the focus groups reactions changed
when the buzzwords were first heard...[only 500 will pay]

without naming them
your going to get more
if you can charge more[but only to the 500]

when i get my bill..i will pay it
then start proceedings against the liars
in a group action...by the 5,000.ooo who are paying it
who know they arnt one of the 500

keep spinning deciets...
alp god..has become lap dog
those who lie with dog..have illbegotten fleas

when you stack the cccc rap
it often falls back..on the one's..stacking it too high

only 500?
lol only in ya delusion

its a lie built on lies
sold by fear and pretty lace frills
bonus for you..from the 500..that will bill you too

Ditto here Shadow Minister.
I suspect we come here to swap thoughts opinions and ideas.
To test our verbal combat skills and maybe to out serve those we oppose .
I come also to learn, some links over the years here have helped me grow.
It is , in my mind a bit wrong to ruse conversation with some.
But I have also learned it is time wasting to converse with a concrete wall.
So enjoy.

Belly, as a unionist, you should be very concerned with the recent closure of the hienze factory.

Now, be honest here, do you really think a carbon tax as high as ours will not place further stress on local companies.

Does NZ have one?

Perhaps this will be a trend, after all, NZ is becoming a dumping ground for Chineese imports.

Perhaps the NZ,ers see it as not the right thing, importing cheaper foods from China, perhaps they also realize that moral obligations and wishes don't actually pay the bills.

The Chinese Ministry of Finance has proposed a carbon tax for China, starting at 10 yuan ($US1.59) per tonne, starting in 2016. This is much lower than the Australian and European carbon prices and there appear to be no proposals to move to a market mechanism, as the case with Australia and Europe. However, like Australia, the proposal is to gradually increase the price, to lessen concerns over its effect on economic development. As with Australia, the tax is proposed to be revenue neutral, with other forms of taxes being reduced. I found and translated some of the documents from the Chinese government agencies at: http://blog.tomw.net.au/2012/01/china-carbon-tax-proposed.html

Even at the low starting price, the tax should be enough to see Chinese organizations look at energy saving measures. Many of the students in my course "ICT Sustainability: Assessment and Strategies for a Low Carbon Future" are from China and are very interested in how to reduce electricity use: http://www.tomw.net.au/ict_sustainability/

It might not have occurred to the Idiot greenies, that for many manufacturing businesses, electricity is already a major expense, and much effort already goes into reducing the use as far as possible.

Small ($1.55)changes in the cost of power while increasing expenses do little to change behaviour, Large changes elicit large responses such as moving off shore.

Heinz is an American company, it's been known for 12 months they were pulling out. They are going to NZ and import tomatoes from south Asia.
Their parent co is in NZ.

Wobbles,

No company that is very profitable is going to fold and move overseas because of the carbon tax, they will simply be less profitable. Those that are presently marginal are the ones that will move from just in the black into the red.

The excuse from Labor is that the companies were struggling and probably would have closed anyway. This may be true for some, but there are many that will fold that would have hung on otherwise.