the problem is over simplification results in errant generalisations

joe quote...""With respect,..you may not know what you are talking about.""

mate few of us could disagree
thats why you went wrong a bit later

""Hunter-gatherer societies
were not some sort of generalised sharing-and-caring utopias.""

of course not
but elders got respect whjere respect was due
[will explain later]

""The hierarchical distribution system went something like this:""'

now your missing the meanibng of the HIGHER archy
first comes the old ones...and their trust[the young ones]

""*self""..the hunter
gets the spoil easy..[the guts blood
and the other bits that can go rotten]

the old toothless ones got the brain..
and other soft bits like bone marrow

in my own case i hold the head of the deer
because when we got that gift there was no old ones..!
needing the brain/eyes..[my other totum is the single golden horn[of plenty]..the rest being scarificed on the pire..and all being so hungry they ate even the hooves and one of the horns

this was in early times when we learnt to render jelly
from the hard bits

sinue was highly valuedas a binding
but also could be renderd into a feed

abnyhow a hunter society isnt a gather society
so dont try to join dots that cant join

the rlue is the elders first[for their wisdom
next the young...for when your old..next the woman..who holds the future..

and with the gather's..the rule was never keep/ttake more than half
give at least half the harvest on the tree to the next finder to find

and return..seed to its mother soil
to grow the next crop

and then we got kings and priests
who thought of a better higher archy
and they created money changers/lawers..rules of law

and the dreaming time of plenty
was heard no more..

till one day
the owner of creation
sent a messanger
who was ignored

who got bored
and wished only to die
so he did

Thanks OUG, my reference to hierarchy was a bit ironic, suggesting that the young and the women hunted and gathered food for the old and the men, on the basis that the old men had secret knowledge that they could dole out, and were a sort of priesthood (cf. 'ieros') with power ('archon'). The young fed the old, the old passed on their understandings of the world to the young, a rare case, perhaps the only case, in such societies of reciprocity.

I also did not mean for a minute that there was some sort of infinite amount of food, a never-ending Magic Diprotodon, and that it was distributed routinely to all within coo-ee on the basis of this hierarchy. What I meant, but obviously wasn't clear about, was that, when food was scarce, that's the order in which whoever got some, in that order, and that's who didn't.

The distribution sort of expanded out from the basic unit, the self and the tight, nuclear, family - even to the point that, if an older man had, say, two wives, the kids would share the food that they had gathered with their own mother before sharing with their half-siblings or their step-mother.

Probably that's how we all did it in our hunter-gatherer days, OUG :)

Joe

Sqeers;
Natural gas will stretch our our energy depletion.
However, the production that is planned now is almost entirely for
export to Japan and China.
Australian oil production peaked in 1999, and is depleting at about 3%
a year. We will need to start converting considerable numbers of trucks
for natural gas. Cars also will have to start being converted.
Price no doubt will set off the rush for gas.

The main problem with the conversion will be to retrofit all the
service stations. There is however a way around that.
In the US you can buy compressors to connect to the gas mains and fill
your vehicles tank at home.
It is not generally realised that Australia has gone from almost 100%
of our own oil to close to 50% in about 10 years.
Now we are importing almost all of our petrol because two of our three
refineries are being closed.

Loudmouth;
I never said that hunter gathers were utopian.
The Gift societies came as people settled into little villages and
about the time agriculture started.
When agriculture got started it made time available for people to
specialise in what they did for a living.

Belly;
Our not very distant ancestors lived in market towns or nearby villages.
Last year I was in Toronto and I saw a very large market town in operation.
Even Hornsby in Sydney has the nucleus of a farmers market starting.
There used to be a vegi & fruit stall, but now there are about 20
stalls selling all sorts of food stuffs.
The price of fuel will expand the whole scene.

joe...""i also did not mean for a minute
that there was some sort of infinite amount of food,
a never-ending Magic Diprotodon, and that it was distributed routinely to all within coo-ee on the basis of this hierarchy.""

im saying there is plenty of food
as the bible says who feeds a sparrow?
see the poor have allways been poor..but poor dont hurt the poor

its the fate of the rich and middle claases
they trusted with their riches

see how i buy a pumpking..planting 99 seeds
that grows into a minimum of 200 pumpkins
now many seeds in one pumpin

or a chicken lays 200 eggs
that can make 100 extra hens...and a few spoiled roosters
plus 89 young cokerals to eat...they live off lawn clippings and sprouted wheat..or scraps or insects grown in cardboard

see in the old days i knew that if i had just one hen
i had a feed everyday..if i grew my chickens
i had half the harvest to eat for free

thats why i invented the wikseed
that reaps its 'harvest'...[modestly set at a 5 fold increase ever 1 january..so that one wikised grew to 5 grew to 25 grew to 125]

except each of ya got a pound
so in the 9 years that 'pound' has grown
except i gifted [i think]..5 pounds..anyhow we each got that gift from god[even the chickens can buy their own independance and food/shelter]...once they elect a king to represent them in the un[S>U>N]..sovereigns united nation..that takes over the UN

by sovereign decree
as hrh..i tried to tell her
tell her to ask questions..then at chogm..present the cure

then with her commonweal takle over the un..till the people elect their specific 'king'..queen..to represent THEM

its time to reap the harvest
we need all hands on deck

the offer is on the table
there is plenty for all

we are the mortal heirs of the eternal imortal
much like a corperation that cant 'die'..

but god still wants us
to claim our birth right...RIGHT?

equally
no life can be left behind

joe...""also did not mean for a minute
that there was some sort of infinite amount of food,""

i did

""that it was distributed routinely
to all within coo-ee on the basis of this hierarchy.""'

i did

""What I meant..was that, when food was scarce,
that's the order in which whoever got some,""

well mate each pound promise
ALLOWS US EACH TO GROW our own harvest pound

im giving each permission to grow their own money tree

im hoping that the absurd values of one pound of hemp sed falls to its true 'market value'...[in the courts seed has a value MORE than gold...[i want its price to drop to one tenth

but the 'market forces .have subverted and perverted the harvest
by banning anyone from growing the tree of life along the rivers of life[the main roads]

""in that order,
and that's who didn't.""

no time for blame
get the notes with their seed out to the people
tell them to just/..'let it grow'..and we will issue the WIKISEED/wikigeld money..for the harvest..on trust

ps the wiki can only repay govt debt
or criminal or grey debt..ie thatwe got entraped into
by unilateral contract..and unfair ursurous terms

and of course for food and shelter and survival clothing or other life restoring body need like education or law

""The distribution sort of expanded out from the basic unit,"'

yeah the same with the wikiseed/geld

""the self and the tight, nuclear, family -""

became a fair cure for the crimalised by statute[druggies]
they refused it..so it went to the elders of the aborigonal nations[who rejected][..it

so THEn..it went..to ""the whole human family""

and the abnimal family
flora too not just fauns

ALL LIFE LIVES BY GODS WILL..!

""even to the point that""

has become subverted and perverted beyond reasoning
they still hold within them too[the life/living..god spirit],

that we do to the least
or the most..do to the best or the least

WE DO/did unto him

welcome to the family
here is your trible check book
just nominate which origonal tribe your birth mum came from
he is your king/qqueen ..[in trust]..

til you chose
your own default king/queen..trustee..
to claim fair share of your inheritances
home/food/family/love