Jewely, nice to see someone without pretence on this. Have a seat.

Shaggy:"Better an acceptable fable that lets us sleep at night."

Ah yes, far better to live in self-deluson than face the facts. Sorry, not something I've much patience with. I've done lots of things over the years that I wish I hadn't. Some of those things occasionally still make me cringe at the recall. However, when those thoughts come, I think them through: if I did something wrong to someone, the least I can do is to acknowledge it. If I acted stupidly, then I've a chance of making sure it doesn't recur. On at least a couple of occasions I've been moved to apologise to people a long time after events have transpired because I had a recollection that inspired some reconsideration of events. If I suppress or fantasise about such things, what does it say about me?

I think though, that you've probably captured the spirit of the game some people play to avoid thinking too hard about their personal views. It's all "I'd like to think I'd act in the nicest possible way because that's the way I like to think of myself". Yeah, right...

NSB, the Titanic example was chosen because people had several hours to sort themselves out. The people who chose to stay on board did so conscientously, although not everyone left aboard chose to do so, I'm sure. As someone mentioned earlier, social and peer pressure, an armed crew (who spent their last minutes alive guarding boats so women and children could escape), as well as what I posit is an instinctive drive among men to protect women was what caused the outcome. The Lusitania, which went down in short order after being torpedoed, saw no such gender disparity in the dead since it was "every man for himself" and vast panic.

Pelican:"the guilt of being alive"

Exactly. How would you justify it to yourself? How did the women who benefitted from such sacrifice?

Houllie:"Not as strong as the man-as-misogynist-objectifier-and-abuser meme."

I disagree. That one has been invented in the past 40 years. The other has evolved over hundreds of thousands, possibly even longer.

It won't last, because it's based on an essential untruth and people generally conform the the rule, "you can fool some of the people all the time and all the people some of the time, but you can't fool everybody all the time".

Those who want to believe will believe, but they will become increasingly marginalised as the essential dishonesty of the view overcomes the tribalism of the mass female response.

My mum and nan used to roar laughing (as did I as a child) at the antics described in ""Mere Male" in the New Idea. If they were true, there are some really hapless blokes out there. However, they weren't being contemptuous of these men, merely expressing their knowledge that men and women are different and that sometimes those differences create preictable problems.

The meme you refer to is very different and is counter-productive. It exists solely to justify special treatment for political-class women and is based on a false dichotomy. It can't last, despite the support of the Mrs Grundys.

Antiseptic,

Most of us make a fable out of our actual lives in one way or another. It is no more than our interpretation of events to make our lives acceptable to us. Nothing wrong with that.

Our actions when faced with gut wrenching fear are unknowns and are rarely handled with manners and aplomb. These are applied after the event to make the story sound better.

There are few if any total realists amongst us.

It be the way of things.

Take it easy.

SD

So true, Houellebecq, so very true.

>>Yep, go Pericles. Chicks love a mindless self-sacrifice. You'll live on in a wet spot in someone's undies.<<

It is an attitude that has served me extremely well over the years. It has proven time after time to yield better results than the "hey darlin', how about it" approach that is, apparently, what real men do.

Some call it politeness. Others, enlightened self-interest.

Lol Pericles! Sounds like you have the right idea :)

Actually Antiseptic, I agree with you on some points.
I too think women have been duped by many of our earlier radical feminists in that we could EVER consider ourselves equal to men.

I would hate to have to lower my standards... :)

Dear Suze,

Glad to see that you don't lack ambition.