Everywhere ypu turn there is a strike happening, mostly over pay disputes.

Some are being offered more than projected CPI increases, but they are still not happy.

There can be little doubt we are heading into unchartered waters, with the euro debt cricis and many sectors here either failing, or at least suffering from our two speed economy.

Now we are not talking about low paid workers here, as many of the striking workers are on well above the national average.

I just think it's time for these discontented workers to either except that times are tough, FOR ALL, or quit their jobs and give it to someone who really wants the work.

And, in typical union thuggery form, many are striking at times that they know cause great pain to those they effect by their actions.

And they wonder why the likes of qantas and BHP pack up and leave.

here we go again
them mug workers
SIMPLY..wanting to cover the cost of govt revenue raising

and you whining..about paying a few percent more

yet you got the hide to start that other topic
to get carbon credits for carbon sequestation..SUBSIDY

you mug
sure a tax will force the workers..to pay it

but mate
you pay the workers

and so the viscious cycle continues
next mate it will be an 'abouve inflation'..increase
to cover the COMPULSORY super increase..

mate we cant live on credit cards forever

heres an clue
do it yourself

let corperations figure out how tHEY can give more tax
the workers are sukked dry

they ask for a pathetic token
compared to al the extra costs the alp govts are heaping on them

while bailing out you

master

Here we go, the usual one sided drivel over strikes, "I just think it's time for these discontented workers to either except that times are tough, FOR ALL, or quit their jobs and give it to someone who really wants the work".

A few points here:

When EBAs run out, and new ones are being negotiated, unions are legally empowered to take industrial action. This is a very limited legal power. The human right of being able to withdraw your labour is denied to workers in Australia and this is the cutprice offering by the state in return.

The unemployment rate is about 5 percent in Australia, so there are not many people lining up for these jobs.

When I scan my newspaper job section to see what's going on, there are no jobs advertised without demands for a host of skills and blue/white tickets for everything from arse-wiping to pumping up tyres. Employers refuse to train anyone anymore, so clearly there is no shortage of labour in Australia.

While it is frowned upon for waged workers to expect to at least keep up with inflation, and people like Hardly Normal moan when these workers stop spending their surplus wages in his shops, there is no public commentary whatsoever on the excessive salaries and bonus payments that flow to a handful of executives, and equally, no demands that these excessive payments get taxed properly, with endless legal tax loopholes that ensure the lower paid pay for the highly paid- just look at all the failures of capitalism that are subsidised by the taxpayer.

As for QANTAS packing up- it would help if the management did their job and ran a decent and efficient airline for a change.

I am booking two flights to the UK and have told the agent any airline but not QANTAS. Blow me down, she said that that is her approach for her own flights, and many of her customers too. QANTAS stinks as a brand but it does not stop them paying their imported boss squillions for running the firm badly.

Strikes every where?
Have you and ideas other than this bigotry and blindness.
A fact, under current Nation wide LAW a strike can only take place during enterprise or wage negotiation periods, After applying to courts
Safety is the only other issue that allowed strike.
At present, we are in a period unmatched for its lack of industrial strife.
I think it best that I no longer feed the anti worker stuff you generate Rechtub from a very dark place called uninformed land.
My regards we can talk in threads not unfairly bashing those you dislike so intensely.

OUG, you are such a toss sometimes.

Wher did this come from ..yet you got the hide to start that other topic
to get carbon credits for carbon sequestation..SUBSIDY

I am sure you are on a different planet at times.

BTW. These are not your low paid workers you know and, what gives them the right to strike at a time which causes so much heartache for the traveling public.

Many of the folk have saved for a year or more for their family holiday, only to have it disrupted by these inconsiderate people.

It's not as if these staff are on the bread line you know.

In any case, 15% over 3 years, in these tough times is unreasonable and, before you lot use the old 'what about the CEO's pay', just remember, these CEO's jobs are there for the taking. Others simply need to step up if they want that job.

After all, nobody is born with a job.

"what gives them the right to strike"

Well, as I said before, it is the process of enterprise bargaining, so the state gives the permission.

Just as the state gave QANTAS the same permission to stand their staff down the other day.

Same set of laws, same disruption.

But what's this? No comment about Q management disrupting flights?

tubbers quote..""These are not your low paid workers you know""

nor are they yours

""what gives them the right to strike""

fairness
just like an invester has the right to invest or not
so too must a worker have rights..or else he/she is a slave

""at a time which causes so much heartache
for the traveling public.""

oh yes the sacred cows
those with so much credit on their credit cards
they can afford to go on holiday...

and they refuse to think about anything
who is making them think of workers...
who must work..while they rest..

relax bro
let it go

your on holiday
relax

""Many of the folk have saved for a year or more
for their family holiday,""

but so many more are business men on business class
are you on holyday..or is you comment just about workers and your business

""only to have it disrupted by these inconsiderate people""

mate their bags got there
they got there..they are on holdays..lol.

hey here is a good idea
give yourself a break

""It's not as if these staff
are on the bread line you know.""

and its not as if their home having a life
or have any real chance for a real break
planes fly 24/7..

meaning many work while you sleep
but i forgot..butchers 'only'..work from 4 am to 4 pm

tubbers
mate..think
your upset about this
but your not personally affected

your upset about something
that fits your adgenda..not your circumstance

ie upset about possability
not reality

""In any case, 15% over 3 years,
in these tough times is unreasonable""

ahh now we get down to the nuts and bolts
your afraid your workers will want the same

but mate we are all paying double for giovt revenue raising
mate we are all feeling the pain

mate i used to buy my meat
everything has gone up a whole dollar

i note the 1.99 sausages
are now 2.99

and,the chicken breast was 5.99
its now 6.99

so those who cant afford the good stuff
have had their price rise by a 50%

and for the breast
its gone up 20%

mate what your workers eating
that which went up 50%
or 20%..?

bah
got a bad taste in my mouth
must be the 2.99 mince that went up to 3.99

Dear Godbotherer, you are right, I am not directly effected by this, but we will all suffer in the long term.

Unlike most recent jobs, created by either governments, and or thier stuff ups, these employers actually take risks to create jobs and, if they say enough is enough, it will be game over for many generations to follow.

The last time we had situations like this was when labor were in power.

But those in the know expected that.

By all means support this at your peril.

By all means whinge, but don't hold the public to ransom I say.

What annoys me the most about strikers is that their gripes is with their employer yet they make the fellow taxpayer suffer the consequences. If you must strike then hit out at the employer not us you selfish louts. Why don't Qantas workers offer the public free rides ? That would make management get up & take notice.

"Why don't Qantas workers offer the public free rides ?"

Really! Is that a serious suggestion?

Perhaps it is because 'workers' are not the owners of the business and any attempt at that would be regarded by the employer and the state as 'theft'?

Why don't QANTAS shareholders instruct managers to negotiate 'in good faith', as required by the legislation?

That way it would be hard for the unions to denounce management, wouldn't it?

The other point to raise is this, because of the miracle of capitalism, there are many other airlines that like to sell tickets.

If customers are upset with QANTAS, go and buy a ticket from a better run airline.

That is what I am doing, having abandoned QANTAS altogether, long ago, as a waste of space and money.

TBC

Why don't QANTAS shareholders instruct managers to negotiate 'in good faith', as required by the legislation?

Why dont these workers realize times are tough and, that they are on a pretty good wicket anyway.

Besides, all share holders care about is profits.

Now if these workers push hard enough, qantas may just move off shore, a move that the share holders would no doubt support.

*Perhaps it is because 'workers' are not the owners of the business and any attempt at that would be regarded by the employer and the state as 'theft'?*

TBC, perhaps the workers should buy the business with all their
superannuation money, for looking at the shareprice, its cheap
as chips right now. Qantas largely exists for the benefit of
passengers and workers, certainly not the people who invested in
it.

What the present industrial strife really comes down to, is finally
facing reality. Quantas can't make money on international flights,
their costs are too high and their competitors have too many
advantages. But they can make money from Jetstar and other subsidiaries, which don't have to operate under Australian cushy
laws. Joyce is paid alot, because he had to make the hard decisions
and focus on shareholders for a change, who have lost their shirts
it seems. Workers will have to face it, strikes or no strikes,
IMHO Qantas will wind down Quantas, employ far less people and
crank up their overseas businesses which actually make money.

Militant actions by the unions will only speed up their own demise
and they can go and find work elsewhere. So be it, Ansett workers
used to tell me that their airline was safe. Oh yeah. Next they
will be screaming for jobs, when times get rough. Some learn the
hard way it seems.

TBC,
I found that managers don't give a hoot about workers' feelings in the majority of cases but, kick the ball back into their court & they'll freak out. If Qantas can afford the insane benefits for their hierarchy than they should be able to accommodate their workers as well. It's called competent managing. If they can't they could always try to drop their pays by 50 % & they'll still be millionaires.

*If Qantas can afford the insane benefits for their hierarchy than they should be able to accommodate their workers as well*

It ain't that simple, Individual. It took me a while to get my
mind around this one, for I used to think like you. But if you
crunch the numbers, it all changes.

Qantas employ something like 33'000 people. Pay them each just
20$ a week more, it costs the company something like 33 million $.

The CEO involves a single person, who is basically acting as
"intrapreneur" on behalf of the shareholders. As billions of $
are dependant on his decisions, the board needs the flexiblity to
hire whoever they want for the job, because people with the knowledge
and talent, showing great judgement, are very hard to find.

Wether they pay that person 1 or 5 million, hardly affects the
bottom line, besides, they will pay half of it in tax anyhow.

But that person's skills are critical for shareholders and the billions involved. Really smart people always have the option of
going out on their own in business, they don't need the job.
Paying them well gives them an incentive to stay and make the
required changes, no matter how difficult.

There are great examples for this. When Wesfarmers bought Coles,
they overpaid for it, but at least it stayed in Australian hands,
the Americans were after it, but IMHO they would have trashed it.

Wesfarmers searched the planet for the best possible talent and
put together a whole new team, to turn around what had been a disaster
for years. The Coles turnaround is clearly reflected in the figures.
Not only that, but consumers have been the winners, as finally
Woolies has some real competition.

You are not going to draw that kind of talent to Australia, by
paying people peanuts.

You are not going to draw that kind of talent to Australia, by
paying people peanuts.
Yabby,
so by paying them we get what we have now eh ? I think peanut munching monkeys might have more sense.
If what we have is the cream then only God can help us.
I really don't believe that we have value for money.

*I really don't believe that we have value for money.*

Individual, that is really up to the board. If the board is
no good, then their heads should role. Good boards do in
fact get it right. The shareholders are free to vote on that
and throw them out, if they are not satisfied.

It is the big boys playing with monopoly money pure and simple and rules being manipulated to serve the interests of a small elite who are in charge of pulling the strings at the top of the pyramid.

rehctub it is not about 'anyone' stepping up for these CEO jobs, there are only a few to go around afterall. It is about valuing jobs for their worth, neither over-valuing or under-valuing a role. It is pure mathematics. The most successful economies are those where the pay disparities are not so great.

This is happening even in government. Senior public servants continue to receive bonues and their pay rates have increased disproportionately to lower level roles. Many of these bonuses are paid regardless of meeting KPIs. "Efficiency" in both the private and public sector is a farce. It often means cuts to services and front of house staff to the detriment of consumers/citizens all in the name of efficiency dividends so some corporates can validate their excessive bonuses.

Efficiency no longer means providing a good service/product for the least cost. The concept has morphed into a scenario of corporate 'fixing' so that there is little from which to choose and a reduction in quality in favour of quantity and an it will do culture.

Soon all the Humphrey Applebys will be pushing for no patients in public hospitals beacause it impedes the work of all the administrators as portrayed in Yes Minister. YM is more and more turning out to be a documentary than satire. Who would have thought.

At least there is the growings of a backlash:

http://www.cheatingculture.com/

A friend recommended the book 'The Cheating Culture: Why More Americans are Doing Wrong to Get Ahead'

http://www.amazon.com/Cheating-Culture-Americans-Doing-Wrong/dp/0156030055

I have not read it yet but the reviews and commentary on the book are quite revealing and there is much to be said for the conclusions, not only relevant to the US but to other countries as well.

shareholders are free to vote on that
Yabby,
yes & who makes up the bulk of shareholders ? Public Servants of course as only they can afford to buy shares. They're not going to vote out managers who perform purely because incompetent Government doesn't put the brakes on them.

*yes & who makes up the bulk of shareholders ? Public Servants of course as only they can afford to buy shares.*

Oh rubbish, Individual. Something like 40% of the population
owns shares directly, nearly everyone indirectly through their
super funds.

In the early 90s I employed a 17 year old, straight out of school.
While her friends bought dresses, cds and make up, she bought
Westpac shares for 3 bucks each. She still benefits. Its a fact
of life, some people blow it at the pokies, some put something away
for a rainy day. All those grey nomads travelling around the
country, you'll find a good chunk of them own shares bought
years ago. The thing is, in our society people have choices, we
can't compel them to make smart ones, just offer them the
opportunities for the taking, its up to them. Many never do, then
will be the first ones to complain on OLO, that they are getting
a raw deal in life. Just another human foible.

40% of the population
Yabby,
you're getting close, in fact the Public Service makes up more than 40%.

*you're getting close, in fact the Public Service makes up more than 40%*

Individual, which has absolutaly got zilch to do with who in
Australia actually buys and owns shares. Just rabbitting on
a bit, is not going to do it for you, I am afraid.

Indy, like most on this site, you just don't understand how the wheels turn.

As yabby points out, pay your CEO a bonus of say 3 mill$ and , as long as he saves that plus some, they are in front.

Also, insiturions are the largest share holders, many made up of mums and dads super funds.

This is typical labor union logic, times get tough, just increase wages.

Well, the end result will be no jobs.

Don't agree, just keep pushing and we will see who is right.

When times get tough, there are many options including, cutting back on ones spending, re thinking ones lifestyle or even getting a second job.

Now according to mandamus PM, getting a second jobs is easy as we have 'full employment', apparently!

don't understand how the wheels turn.
rehctub,
You'll find that most do understand, they just don't agree to how it's done. If you know someone who has some integrity, ask them about it & they'll tell you the same. Investment with the view of making more is a proven poor economic tool. Investment with a view of creating employment & sustainable economy is a good thing. I bet the investment schemes that went ar$e up were of the former variety. Those which focus on the latter are going strong. Nothing too scientific about that at all.

rehctub,
How much longer do you think it'll take you to find someone with integrity to ask about investing practices ?
I don't want to sound impatient but I have to go away again soon & I'd really like to see an explanation.

individual, it depends on whether you are referring to government, or private/corporate investmen, as they ar two different things wit different motives.

Tell m that and I may be able to answer you questions.