http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/opinion/rise-in-power-prices-the-only-carbon-tax-certainty/story-e6frg9px-1226135194401

Labor is preparing to ram through the 19 carbon tax bills in record time, whilst not even having the corrected modelling it promised.

"It is also that the price set on carbon is too low to drive substantial investment in alternative energy sources, including gas as the fundamental alternative to coal, unless this is even more directly and heavily subsidised by taxpayers.

Yet the proposed initial tax rate of $23 a tonne -- let alone any higher -- will be another major drag on the economy and business just when so much of the manufacturing sector is already struggling, confidence remains abysmal and global risks dwarf any domestic agenda.

The gyrations on the stockmarket should provide warning enough that another tax is one more problem for an economy being buffeted by such a huge structural change and the constant threat of imported instability.

Even those in the business world who once supported the notion of pricing carbon are now mostly silent (Marius Kloppers, where are you?) if not aghast at how the issue has played out.

The Gillard government is determined to proceed anyway, knowing it now has no option politically after so heavily promoting carbon pricing as essential. Wayne Swan tried again in parliament to put the carbon tax into the category of fundamental reform pioneered by the Hawke Keating government. This claim will only confirm the now almost unanimous view in the broader business community that Labor simply does not understand competitive pressures and commercial incentives and disincentives when it comes to investment."

It is no surprise that business confidence is plunging to new lows in the wake of a government ignorant of the needs of the economy.

No surprise.
No substance.
No evidence.
In ten years when we see new jobs new industry and know we followed not lead on this issue.
Such as Shadow Minister, as they did with superannuation and so much more.
Finding the wheels have not fallen off, will claim the credit for it.

Belly,

Good to see you with your head firmly in the sand in support of Labor's policies once again.

belly, i just wish you had the dollars to underwrite your predictioms, because, unless you ate on a different planet to me, i dont see the growth in th economy you do.

I flew back from north qld today and saw no,less than 15 people standing around sith stop go signs and alike just in anticipation that a car was going to arrive.

All these jobs were provided for by the tax payer, nothing made as usual.

This country is in very poor shape and if th leaders come from the same thinking as you do, then pitty help us as we are in fo a torrent time ahead.

Retail, on its knees.

Manufacturing, gone!

Tourism, all but gone.

Farming, going fast.

Steel workers going fast.

Yet, this fool of a PM has the hide to imply we are doing wll and that a carbon tax will fix verything.

I just wish they were fnancially liable for th stuff ups the create.

All they care about is making sure the worker can live well on a 38 hr week even without skills.

Well Shadow Minister you will have seen us protesting on TV tonight down at Parliament House saying, "NO CARBON TAX" There were on about 60 of us but we had a big impact.So if you and others want to make a difference,actions speak louder than words.

This has to be a people movement from a grass roots level.The Labor Party is shaken to its'core and we have to increase the pressure.If you are interested I'll give you contact numbers.

I now leave this waste land the thread has become.
A grin of enjoyment on my face.
I never intended to taunt,but arjay has turned the thread to satire.
Rechtub to a darkroom he is trying to find his way around in.
Shadow Minister? in saying my every thought is Labor bias!
From him!
You GOTTA laugh!
Polling shows this
If Rudd rules Labor wins.
So you SM are selling rotten fish, out side the walf the boats come in with full loads of fresh ones!
See you all in another thread chuckling as I go.

As you are all aware I am rather more pessimistic about our future
while the politicians are asleep.

Australia's problem is that we are surviving on China's growth.
China is already in trouble with electricity supply.

Unless they can get the growth in electricity to be greater than their
economic growth their growth will stop or slow.
At near 10% growth it means their economy will be doubled in 7 years.
It just cannot happen !

It must crash in the next very few years.
Together with China shifting their supply of iron ore to their own
mines in Africa our mining industry can expect a big fall in orders.
Then Australia will know about rehctub's list of failing industries.

Bazz,

This carbon tax has nothing to do with what people want, people need, or the global emissions. It is primarily to satisfy Bob Brown and keep Julia in power.

SM, well yes we all know that.
The carbon dioxide tax will become a side issue very quickly when TSHTF.
They can adjust its effect very quickly by changing the tax down to say $1.
I presume that the tax rate will not be built in in concrete in the
legislation. They wouldn't be that stupid; would they ?
It will really get tough as the mining industry slows.

What a bunch of Cassandras and Moaning Minnies there are on parade here.

I just hope that you lot are "pursuing your careers" somewhere in the bowels of the Public Service, where you can do no harm. You certainly wouldn't make it in business, that's for sure.

But it is vaguely amusing to see you weeping on each others' shoulders. Arjay is right, you should all start to protest in earnest, just like he does.

>>There were on about 60 of us but we had a big impact.<<

Sixty, eh.

Impressive.

why austerily measures wont work
http://vidrebel.wordpress.com/2011/09/12/the-mathematics-of-austerity-proving-austerity-never-was-even-intended-to-work/

never have
never will

stop throwing good govt cash
to bad govt..and big business gone bad

Well, yes Pericles I am a Cassandra, I acknowledge that.
Someone has to be blowing the whistle to try and wake up the pollies.

Actually what you are demonstrating is a phenomena that is well known.
When people are presented with scenarios that seem to have an effect
to change their established style of living and upset their
expectations it is very common to see denial set in.
This is from where the AGW crowd get their "denial" rant.
When first faced with such a declaration of a problem it is just taken
as over the top and just not real. You know the story;
"There is plenty of oil. the oil companies are concealing it"
"I have seen the capped wells all over the country"

However after a time, when the story comes from other sources and gets
a few references from organisations like the IEA, people start to
think about it;
"Might be true, but won't worry me I will be dead by then."
"Hmmm later in this decade ?" Hmmmm.

Just consider, the present problems in Europe & the US are following
the predictions that were made by a number of people like Kenneth
Defreyes, Colin Campbell and in 1956 Marion King Hubbert.
It is all there.
Our problem is that the politicians should be implementing the
mitigation steps suggested in the US government report by Hirsch.
Hirsch said a soft transition to other energy will require 20 years.

Belly is indulging in false bravado.Kevin Rudd (Lazarus with a personality by pass)Prime Minister again? His own party hate and distrust him with a passion.Labor is finished Belly.They are totally corrupt and devoid of any empathy for the people that they claim to represent.

Jack Lang would be spitting on the whole party if he were alive today.

There are lots of ways the carbon tax can be emasculated permanently, even without changing the legislation, such as granting permits for free emission for 100% of present capacity, etc, and simply excluding the compensation packages from the budget.

Labor and the greens can challenge this in the senate by blocking supply, which would lead to a double dissolution.

You might remember my comments about China's growth.
Well here is an article on the Energy Bulletin about China's consumption.

http://tinyurl.com/3e74fvy

This why China cannot continue as it is and that it must crash quite soon.
China's orders will undoubtly fall dramatically and they will
concentrate on buying from their own mines.
It will be the effect on Australia that will be our problem.
The only path that we have will be to crank up our manufacturing as
a matter of urgency. No one else will help us.

Interesting article, Bazz.

But in stark contrast to your strong statements using words like...

"cannot... must ... will undoubtly ... will be the effect... will be our problem... only path" etc...

...the article itself - which is quite short - contains seven instances of the word "if".

There's probably a reason for that, you know.

Pericles said:
There's probably a reason for that, you know.

True enough, but some of the limits it discusses are straight out
physical with no alternative, unless a crash in another area prevents
say the building of the projected number of cars, eg not enough oil
to run them or not enough electricity to run the factories.

Anyway, whatever way it goes complex systems collapse for unexpected
reasons.
On the same site there is an article about complex systems and their
vulnerability to unexpected collapse.
eg JUT manufacturing.