We can, almost every one of us, line up on election day, noting the lady in front has that other mobs how to vote but stay silent.
But we get hot under the collar at some who differ with us here in print.
Should we.
Is it just another lie,all views have value.
Or is it true in a group, with a problem the answer can come from the person sweeping the floor.
Right now, forgive me, but our country seems to be in the wrong hands, on every side, in trouble.
But is it, well yes and no, we need something we have not got leadership, on both sides.
The whole world needs direction and leadership and right now.
So is our talk just whispers in the dark, about the wrong subjects, or just maybe some one out there has an idea we never even thought of that can change every thing.
Lets talk.

I think, sadly, that it's times like these that the average man in the street becomes even less interested in politics than usual. He stops listening to the news, stops reading the paper and doesn't talk politics unless he's complaining about what the 'guvment' has stuffed up this time. And, unfortunately, there's a lot to complain about.

I don't know what we need. Neither of our big two leaders is particularly inspiring, but do we need an inspiring leader? Hitler was inspiring, as was Mussolini. Mugabe was inspiring, and many others could adorn this list. Obama was briefly inspiring, but was stifled by Congress and turned out to be (shock horror) a mere mortal. I have a lot of time for Angela Merkel, but she runs a faraway land and I don't have to live with her. In short, inspiration is great but is usually a product of novelty rather than value.

Is our disenchantment really a result of incompetent leadership, or is it a product of our national tendency to see the worst in all politicians and power-brokers? I know our PM is a bit of a disappointment (and, judging by conversations with rellies overseas, an international embarrassment), but is she - and the party she leads - really driving our country into the ground? Despite the prophecies of doom and gloom, our economy is still strong (though I base this on the say-so friends and family who work in financial planning, so I cannot vouch for the accuracy of the statement). We're not rioting in the streets and even the Convoy of No Confidence was an exercise in self-control and politeness, when you look at what other unhappy citizens are doing elsewhere in the world.

I'm not saying I would vote for this mob next time round (and I wear it as a badge of pride that I didn't vote for them this time), but I'm mindful of the fact that things could be a lot worse.

Belly
Many would agree there is a lack of leadership on both sides as you say but the problem really lies in a much bigger picture. Word limits won't permit a lengthy post.

Much has changed over the last 30 years which makes strong leadership less likely and they include in brief:

- the 24 hour NEWS cyle (including polling) and the pressures that brings to bear on political parties (often of their own making);
- CELEBRITY politics or PR spin that means often those with the best PR consultants win. It is all about perception. Ideology comes a poor second to winning elections.
- GLOBALISATION means countries no longer sit in isolation and leaders find themselves less 'free' to make bold choices for risk of offending perceived economic and security allies. Not all aspects of globalisation are negative but unfortunately this depends on who is pulling the strings; and
-GREED: not just corporate greed but personal greed and the rise of consumerism to feed economic growth; and
- the biggie - the rise of CORPORATISM and ability of mega-corporations to influence public policy often to the detriment of citizens.

Strong leaders are difficult to find with all this baggage weighing on policy makers but it is not impossible. Even those who harbour more altruistic and democratic ideals may ultimately find themselves manipulated and pressured by these factors. We all sat and watched the effects of the GFC and economic collapse in other countries and for many the penny has not dropped.

Strong leaders are a threat to the status quo. Many are quickly dispensed with via various influences (at best) and at worst as US history shows via assasination (at home and offshore).

That is the extreme end of it but there are much more subtle influences that are not so easily discernible.

I am positive that the rumblings of a Global Spring will eventually eradicate some of the rot and maybe even produce a few good leaders who will stand for greater accountability and adhere to the democratic principles, often articulated but not always honoured.

funny that mate
i was just thinking the same thing

as i just finnished posting in two parts on your other topic

here is the second part..*
[cause its allready in my pasting option]

""...but here goes the link
yesterday i note allready 75 posts?
today it runs 10 pages
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=12558&page=0

the initial aerticle was this one
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=12558

but i had to pass on reading them
TILL I READ THE NEWS LAST NIGHT..and ONLY heard of the carrot

ie NOT THE OTHER SIDE
ie those NOT represented by govt..of any level

THATS both the reason and the danger inherant in having two houses
[that serve a certain adgenda....RECALL mate that other topic..re the masons..that too was ignored mate}

it all relates
they wanted more woman in the two party parlement
[as you know they are loyal...to the party line...as well as easilly sold to green things..and fighting off them horrible men..that made their lives hell..[to wit us who easilly could pass as masons]

men like you and me
that are too opinionated
and must be ignored and oppressed at all levels

cause to an unwed homo greenie..we all look the same
ie mustr be ignored and cast out
and thats how it is

im nearly out of web acces mate
4 december you wont hear me no more
then i will leave it to the kids..to figure things out by themselves

and be able to ignore the spin
and the carrot and the moralising stijch'e

[stick make johan9 sick]"".....*

the first bit is on your other..IGNORED topic
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4680&page=0

heck mate im over the lot of them
i see no reason to waste my limited savings on getting any more web acces

or indeed going 'digetal'
i got a libery of 23 000 books i can read
im over trying to save a world gone mad..[i dont want to play spin the car/rot anymore either]

i hope im strong enough not to by anymore we acces
no dodo..no posting..that will make them feel better
even if it makes me feel worse

im over giving a damm

Oko/Pelican, Brilliant posts OUG ok every one has right to think as they will, I often agree with you.
I have a question.
While humanity sounds like the tower of Babble, are we ignoring chances to actually fix issues.
I have hope, and despair, all based on our current world.
The Arab spring, who could have guessed or even hoped it would come.
We, most of us, still fear a fall back to past dictatorships.
But modern communications and ability to see a better out come, with not the west forcing it down their throats bought it about.
I think power prospers and the status quo if we do not verbally role issues over.
Given my view, we are a product of our ancestors leaving the caves.
And that community came about for defense and common interests, I wounder what our future holds.
I remember past civilizations, and their fall.
Both hope and fear our future but if now, we found leadership, statesman like leaders,would we still push pull and undermine them.
Note I am afraid my reference to statesmen is not applicable to our current leaders.

yes mr bell the world needs leadership
but all we are getting is ever more moralising laws
[that are not only unconstitutional...they are actually against the high courts definition of legal..to wit illegal/unlawfull]

kids making moral rules
while pushing an athiest adgenda
[making morals into law]..

but lets reply your questions

""are we ignoring chances to actually fix issues."'
the easy way..is to make the tax payer pay
by issuing a new law..

[recall mate her main point is
BUT we pased 180 new legislations..

we got 200 enquiries
then will release bits..as we see best fits
our JOINT adgenda's..and hide the rest in my hairdressers drawers]

""I have hope, and despair,""
mate...dont sweat on it...just wait..
the courts will/may..in time..nullify these bad moral;rules one by one]

""all based on our current world."'

mate we ARE spirits..undergoing a life sentance
dont despair in this world's vile

the next world is perfcet
no boys club..no tax
just equals doing the things to themselves..for themselves

im told repeatedly..the words of jesus
let the tares[bad]..GROW with the wheat...till harvest
and our time of harvest is fast comming mate...[let the meak inherit their 6' of earth]

lets be strong
and let them

""The Arab spring,"'

mate thats only so they can do THERE
whats now bing done here
[to wit the boys club running the girls club

""most of us, still fear
a fall back to past dictatorships.""]

mate put on a glove
under it all..STILL LIES the same hand..!

its the same masonic order
only now its their secretaries..[wolves in sheep skins]

""But modern communications
and ability to see a better out come""

ionly selling us the dream mate
NOTE THE 180 NEW laws..new taxes
its the same/same..new face..with..tyhe same/insane game

THE SAME faceless men..chosing the patsies
now wearing pasties..and bleached hair..and high heels

""I think power prospers""

money influences patsies..to make more money
[in the end...its let them eat inflated paper
cause the powers that were

own everything else*

sheep..in the dark suits
[sheeple in wolves clothing]

same people
same loathing

""and the status quo
if we do not..verbally role issues over.""

the status quotant..
[those who rule it over
our rulers..remains unchanged]..

the back door
faceless/boys club..
still owns..it all...[its their system]

""community came about
for defense and common interests,}}

then special intrsts..make SPECIAL rules
bailout..those special people..'in the know'

""I wonder what our future holds.""

more of the same..*shall be given
to those in the new green age...they will get ever more green

and be boosting the con-sumers spending..industialisation
..to as much as the kids can put on the card..[credit card]

till govt bails out the bankers
issuing credit to broken imbisiles

""if now,
we found leadership,""

mate we still got the same scum running things
just like..he allways has..[this is satans realm]

NO..'statesman like leaders,'
will push pull and undermine them...!

scum allways rises to the top
you dont get to the top..if they dont..*ALLREADY got the dirt on ya

mate im tired

Leadership is one thing I can sure do without.

Leadership has got more people killed than it has ever helped, & always has.

About the only leadership we could use is a new Pied Piper, to lead us out from under the great weight of stupid by-law, & regulation that blight our lives, handed down by "leaders"

Afghanistan, & the tribal areas of Pakistan have more leaders per square mile than anywhere else on earth, & look at the mess they are. And don't blame the west, the west is only in there because all the bad leadership allows it.

What is it with people that they can't stand on their own feet, & have to have a "leader" to direct them, & their lives for them. Our greatest problem is having leaders who want to lead us in even how to sort our garbage, & have a bunch of followers to fine us if we don't follow their leadership.

Just look at what this quest for leadership has given us, Richard Nixon, Tony Blair, Kevin Rudd, Obama, Julia & Genghis Khan spring to mind, & Otokonoko mentioned a couple.

Yes we would be much better off without all this leadership, & it is time to get rid of most of it, starting with the United Nations. Once you get leadership organisations like that disaster, slavery is soon to follow.

Just remember, the first sheep, going in to slaughter, is a leader.

Belly "Lets talk."

Belly that is strange coming from you

you and your little gang are not about talking... only about shutting down those who disagree with you....

but don't worry, your style of left wing politics is heading out the door and into the wilderness

the Time for talk is over

the time for voting is here and now

Wilkes could pull the pin at any moment

and even if he does not

Windsor is set square against him

to say nothing of

Craig Thomson

I suggest Gizzard can go to the poles now... pretending she has some credibility or

wait until her own side stab her in the back - like she did Krudd and go with her tail between her legs

either way

the next government of Australia will be the Liberal Natinal coalition and the greens and all their airy fairy notions wil be out the window....

"Brown" just a green skidmark on the side walk of Canberra

I cannot wait for it to happen so

Just bring it all on

Dear Belly,

There was an article a few years ago in The Age
written by Jenny Tabakoff of the Sydney Morning
Herald who said, "Everyone knows, the world is
divided into two categories: Other People and Us."

Other people are inconsiderate.
Other people are bigoted and ignorant.
Other people are the problem.

The author summed up with:

"Let's face it. Life for some -
is only tolerable when they can
look down on someone else."

This is something that's worth remembering
when posting on a public forum such as OLO

Lexi thanks
Hasbeen I am not aware why, but I still find something about you to like.
It is not you posts, but thanks for supporting my thoughts just talking to some can be hard but Worth while.
Well Derick/Col another barbed needless post.
Well you may well need your daily dose of bile so you are forgiven but not in any way can I find anything of interest in you.
Opinions are free but not always right/wrong/sensible.
No resulting choice from politics business or any other subject is always right.
The best we can hope for, only some of us, is honest debates looking for the outcomes and impacts before we act.
Gandhi, what a leader, Nelson Mandela, two true leaders.
We scape the bottom of our barrel, driven as has been said by media 24/7 headline hunters,the quite mad thought, true insanity,only one side has the answers.
I commend the current high court judgment thread, it highlights our frailty our immovable ability to clasp to our own opinions eyes closed and chant Col like mantra as informed comment.

Dear Belly,

Most people pick up the necessary skills on the job,
not in some classroom and the characteristics that
make for a successful career, such as initiative, leadership,
drive, negotiating ability, willingness to take risks
and persuasiveness are not even taught in the schools.
It seems that the schools (from colleges to universities)
produce graduates with any number of educational
credentials but with few specifically job-related skills.

In fact, heaps of people never put the specific content of
their college education to direct use in their jobs, and
nearly half of the counry's graduates actually work in
fields they consider unrelated to their major subjects.

Watching Question Time recently makes one wonder
why anybody would want to go into politics.
It also makes one wonder where
are the politicians who went into Parliament to make
changes to the Australian settlement.
Where are the pollies who are able to achieve
the changes they believe in. Where are the performers of
high achievement.

What we seem to see in Question time are seat-
warmers, hacks, careerists, or at best adventurers. They
don't seem to be people who are in Parliament
to bring about particular reforms.
They seem to be in it for their own personal benefits.
And perhaps that's why many of us are getting tired of
it all. Watching Question Time makes the dirt in my
garden look so clean.

Well said Lexi, I have watched question time from the day it was first possible, when ever I could.
I listened to it and any parliamentary broadcast on ABC radio too.
It has always been as it now is.
We are not well served by what appears to be a high school bully's fight.
Both sides place mates in the house ,some ex trade unionists like the current left leader, an export from England we can do without.
But we should look first not at them, we out do them hands down here, some at least.
While my mission was to remind we should look at every view, every idea every answer,others reminded me.
Of the reality, they come to put views they can not in real life.
To insult and defame, in the end them selves.
Wednesday Australian time, a debate begins that will change the world, and maybe the way we talk and read about issues.
British Parliament sits, the inquiry in to phone hacking and much more gets a move on.
13 now have been arrested more to come.
If any of us, me you, Col, owned news international we would use it for our thoughts and biases, lets be honest.
But to break the law?
Communications will never be the same as this unfolds.

What a DUD!
What was I thinking about?
We did not need such a thread.
Just look at us,read the posts, consider the views expressed.
I can not work out what cactus said, even stood on my head but no idea.
Got the all men are evil bit, and the not only women betray partners.
Read the polls, saw the comments Julia is gone but maybe not until some one wants the ejection seat.
Have a few candidates but they are also put up as full time replacements.
So forget all views have value, I no longer think that.
Let us dive in to the mud and have fun!

belly quote...""Let us dive in to the mud and have fun!""

im with you mr bell

so saying...""Just look at us,read the posts,
consider the views expressed.""

they have ol mate

""I can not work out what cactus said,
even stood on my head but no idea."'

your not alone
but mate you have heard the saying
'if god gives you lemons....[make lemon-aid]

say whatever you want to say
its your thread to change or use as you chose

""Got that all men are evil bit,
and the not only women betray partners.""

you cant fight what people beluieve
[often we say things we dont believe...i heard yesterday..that the waverage conversation contains 2 lies every ten minutes]

that we people
lie at least[average]..of 50 times per day

mate you and i know we only tell things as they are
[or as we think them to be]

or in the hope others can help find the truth
[but mate the truth isnt in them [or us]
only god knows it all]

YOU..."Read the polls,
saw the comments Julia is gone
but maybe not until some one wants the ejection seat.""

its a poisen chalice mate
[they should have had faith in kevie
julia as a one man band..seems short by one man]

sure she is an amsing person[let alone woman]
but mate give a dog[sorry juliar]..a bad name
mud sticks

""Have a few candidates
but they are also put up..as full time replacements.""

mate its the policies
when kev wanted to balance tax..with miners
mate that was great thinking

but when juliar did the greenie 'deal'
then changed from..the never ever carbon tax....mate
[she lost me]..she is mearly a robot..[trying to out rudd rudd]

and failing badly

love him or hate him
mate he loved being himself

""So forget all views have value,
I no longer think that.""

awe mate
what i love about you is your loyalty
[just like ol shadow...who i have many disgreements with too]
but mate they [both of you]..BELIEVE in something..both got PASSION*

thats whats important
juliar is just a cold fish
[no emotion]..the same voice wether its saying good or bad
the same tone wether its truth ot lie

a loyal follower
but never a leader
no origonal thought mate
blowing this way then that way
whenever her backdoor/masters say jump

they KNOW
how to push her buttons*

thats sad..when right here at THIS forum..
we got the best she-males..what ever put a thought into word
[sorry girls..i dont think of you that way]

Belly "What a DUD!
What was I thinking about?
We did not need such a thread."

At least we agree on that Belly

What a DUD!

Dear Johan (OUG),

Did you by any chance watch "Q ans A." last night?

People who know our Prime Minister and work with
her seem to hold her in high esteem. Describing
her as a decent human being, an intelligent leader,
and extremely capable. I wasn't aware, as I suspect
many Australians aren't - that so far, since the
election the Government has steered 130 bills
through Parliament. This is no small feat. Bills
dealing with health and the disabled being amongst
them. She is determined to push on with the agenda -
and will achieve a great deal before her term ends.

Criticising someone and jumping on the Opposition's
bandwagon is so easy - isn't it? But at least this
Prime Minister is achieving something for us all.
And BTW - the heads of the National Bank and Westpac,
(two of Australia's biggest banks) have supported the
carbon tax. As they showed on "Q and A," last
night - we won't be badly affected (maybe by 1 cent)
at all - people should listen to the experts - not
the mentally deficient Opposition - with their own axes
to grind - whose "direct Action," plan will cost Australian
tax payers more than double what the Government has planned
and won't achieve anything except for certain - more
cuts in infrastructure and essential services. The only ones
who will benefit from their schemes (as always) will be
those who have always reaped their benefits - the rich!

Lexi:"And BTW - the heads of the National Bank and Westpac,
(two of Australia's biggest banks) have supported the
carbon tax. "

It's not a tax, it's a trading scheme. Of course they support it! They'd support slavery if they thought they could make a buck out of it.

Stay the course Lexi.
Like you I under stand not every sin dropped at Gillards door has wings.
You know, as I often say, she is no Friend of mine.
But her policy's and those about to be past, will stand her in good company as the future judges her.
Carbon tax will be Incorporated in to conservative policy.
Stimulus package, now being RECOMMENDED by the world bank to America and Europe, will be seen as a positive.
We both get on with OUG but lets be honest, his view of Labor and Gillard is, unconventional!
No not defending some poor management Labor has placed before us.
BUT be warned!
Abbott could not run a water well in the middle of a desert.
Col, they say satire is the lowest for of humor.
I think sarcasm is near, but in debate Australians can combine humor and FISHING, trawling a bait under ones nose.
You have not got the knack, being an Englishman trying to adopt our humor is not working.
Maybe it is my fault.
On reading your posts, my minds eye shows a Capitan Blimp figure and the words you use bring on endless laughter!
Sorry old chap pip pip and all that, but just not done old fellow, we Aussies dislike Bores.

Dear Anti,

Gee whiz Anti - perhaps you could tell that
to Mr Abbott and the Opposition after all
they're the ones with the "anti-carbon tax,"
campaign and as for making a buck? Isn't that
what Banks do? However they also lend. With
the incentive for alternative energy production -
it will take big loans to fund the process and
that's where the banks will make the money -but we'll
all benefit from it in the end.

Great Post Anti - Thanks for raising these issues.
Good stuff! I'm sure Mr Abbott will appreciate your
contribution.

Dear Lexi, you seem to have confused me with a mindless supporter of one of the major parties.

I'm not.

You say:"we'll
all benefit from it in the end."

But there is no evidence that creating a derivative trading scheme will so anything about greenhouse emissions and there is a great deal of evidence that derivative trading schemes will lead to major financial problems. Why do you think the world financial system is in so much trouble?

Never mind, I'm sure you can find a quote from someone to make you feel witty, if not wise.

Dear Anti,

I don't think of myself as being particularly
witty or wise. But Thanks for even noticing.
However, That's why I often quote from
people who I feel have those wonderful attributes.

As a matter of fact I've learned that the longer
I live, the more I realise - how much there is
to learn.

As for carbon pricing - I'm one of those people
who believes that the government is doing the
right thing in taking this first step towards
trying to give us a clean energy future and an investment
in alternative energy sources. In general
the most industrialised nations are now actively
trying to limit the effects of pollution, it's only
some of the less developed societies that are more
concerned with economic growth and tend to see pollution
as part of the price they have to pay for it.

Anyway, to maintain my "witty" and "Wise" stance in
your eyes...

I saw a cartoon in a magazine that caught my eye:

It was a picture of a company CEO sitting at his desk
staring out of his window at his company's sign -
"ACME MANUFACTURING," and telling his assistant -

"The sky is certainly a beautiful blue today, isn't
it, Roger? Check with production and see if something's
wrong."

Cheers.

dear belly...i was born and bred labour
i fought hard to get kevin elected..sent him 20 plus emails for question time..and re policy..so mate we used to be on the same side.

i protested howard in canberra/living at the tent embassy
was personally attacked three times..had him destroy 3 of my tents[2 with fire]

my fellow protesters loved juliar..so i loved her too
so i dont attack the SUPPOSED TO BE..blue collars easy

yes lexie
i watched qanda..watched as one HUGE union bloke
backed the labourite blackguards..in their drive to the NEW TRADING tax on thin air..[HIM KNOWING..that on average..HIS policy to support this blatent tax..WILL COST HIS MEMBERS near 750$..per year

thats like getting a paycut
[noting those of low income..will..get their rate of tax INCREASED
even if the minimum/rate of those who will pay..has been increased too

BUT MATE have you heard of brackett creep
in tim,e those tax rate INCREASES..will hurt EVEN the poor
as this INDEXED tax increases ANNUALLY

we set the rate...at DOUBLE the 'market rate
so we can/MUST buy up the EXCESS carbon credits from europe
and if any business is MUG enough to buy OURS..they expire

but if you got the FREE ones from juliar..
you can sell them for half the cost price
of them other mugs SELLING their free ones

lol

but why botherexplaining

your a dear...dear lexie
BUT you dont read a single word i write

i have said the above TO YOU many times
but its going in our ear..and out the other

JUST LIKE WITH JULIAR

no matter how cute today
in time..wrinkles reveal our true soul

in the end its what is in our heart and mind that matters

Dear Johan (OUG),

I do read what you write and I respect
your opinion because it's always from
the heart. I also write what I see and
feel. I don't always get it right (according
to some people), but I do what I feel is
right for me and my family. I tend to evaluate
everything very carefully - and you may not
agree with me - but gosh - it is only an
opinion. And the same as you - that's
something we're all entitled to have.
Whether others agree with it or not.
As for wrinkles - and appearances? That's
something I don't worry about (yet). I may do
later on but at the moment I've got more
pressing issues on my mind - like keeping
my family healthy and safe.

i hate arguing with family and friends
but unionists have worn a 40 PLUS percent increase
in service charges..in just 3 years..

[ok mainly at the state level
of ALP..yet STILL alp]

were repeatedly told clever EXCUSES
like we NEED to build infastructure

[NOT SAYING..the 'infastructure cost..is for building a frakking gas pipeline..to gladstone..for a big gas producer...[who nicely 'gave' the qlders a lazer light show...last week]...WOW..

we are inundated with non stop adverts
for origen...[some even giving away free stuff..costing 150 bucks]

this is on top of GIVING away huge cash grabs
to BUY solar power..at twice normal cost..

ON top of giving away a huge SUBSIDY for solar cells
[and yes my family just like you saw a good deal
and took the free solar..

but dumb me..i know there is no free lunch

some unionist somewhere cant afford power or water
and i dont want that guilt..[so refused the BRIBES]

they are much too clever by half
sellouts..selling public assets at mates rates
[like 36,000 hectares of state forrest for only 800 million]

building stadiums for mates
to create an adverse debt
of OVER 65 billion..!

[that rolls over into 75 billion next year]

i dont care what party is doing it
i will only vote for the party that i hope will end it

and if i have to lie down with tony
to end the latest cash grab
well so be it

[and yes if he gets in it will be worse
why because they [both parties]..are serving the same adgenda

and i cant change that
but must try or die trying

next we get shafted with nbn
and thats when i go off line
forever

roll on dec 25 2012

things might just get better
it certainly cant get any worse

by then you should know what happend
to your compulsory super...

thats going to go up..to 12%
to prop up a failing stock market raquet

these bailouts have bailed out those speculating UP
the price of food and resources and services

and only waking up
the current govt can hope to end it

and this means i must demean my own party
and alianate my own family and friends

god strick me brain dead
like the rest of the sheeple
and my fathers party

Johan/Lexi/Anti I enjoy the company of you all.
And Lexi, you stole my line to live by,*while I live I learn*
Looking back it was always so, after I left school.
I am no blind supporter, my wish is for better far better.
From my party and from its birth place my reason for living the Trade union movement.
Power generated within both, is not the private property of those holding it,well yes in fact it is!
But it should not be.
All those years ago, people like the Todpuddle Marters, imprisoned and exiled for forming a trade union.
Miners and their brave loyal wives starving near Newcastle Rotherby Riot, it was infamous, and no riot!
Build the union movement on service to members not pride and badly used power.
And put a few more level headed working people in Parliament.
Talent and the best only.
I get very upset with my party, even unions.
Let me say why potholes! big hard to climb out of pot holes.
My AWU, always, has been a moderate center union.
In my youth we controlled construction sites 300 members out of about 320 in one case.
We went to sleep others ruled, my entry to officials work saw me ordered out of workers lunch rooms.
They had been ignored joined others.
They became my potholes to climb in and out of every day.
Progress was hard work insults like hail.
But won, we reversed it trusted again I had mates close mates , maybe I too left pot holes,my extra efforts would be no walk over to match.
Continued

Surely no one has not seen my unhappiness with my party.
But look too at OUG and in fact most opinions of Labor.
Look truly at each charge.
Some are so fantastic no one surely thinks they are true.
Rudd/Gillard constructed potholes, seemingly unaware of the concept party first both miss used me.
But the lies! the crafted miss truths.
I think, ONE DAY hands from out side our country or from with in it, will be seen to be involved in a true real conspiracy to remove Labor.
No need exists, its a do it your self job.
Now write me off as stupid, first look at Tony Abbott,stand him, in your minds eye along side Howard Menzies others find me a past Liberal leader even close to this bloke.
And ask this of your self OUG once in power are you truly sure Abbott will not betray most of us?
Ask too how many potholes how many years before Labor returns to power.

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/broadcaster-taken-off-air-over-gillard-allegations-20110906-1jw13.html
This story will not go away.
I know nothing about it.
Think just maybe no one truly does.
If there is substance to the story.
If there is not.
Our country is poorer for it.

I've seen the Stat Dec that Bolt referred to in his column and Milne based his comments on. It's not a pretty picture of your Union, belly.

This story has a lot further to run. The stat dec is unequivocal in its language and highly detailed. I'll get a copy of it today if I can and reproduce it here.

belly quote..""Look truly at each charge.""

i have belly..and the alp
at federal and state level
is guilty of overseeing a lot of debt
that many [including unionists]..will spend years paying off

""Some are so fantastic no one surely thinks they are true.""

mate look at the bottum line
qld govt...under over ten years under labour
65 billion*...[they spent it mate...on their other NON union mates]
to wit those who support the 2 party machine men

""Rudd/Gillard constructed potholes,""
thats non-sense
""seemingly unaware of the concept party first""

i didnt say that
they are well aware its party first
or rather the party line[ie whatever it takes to keep their true masters[the public service happy...and sitting on the qungo boardrooms

""both miss used me.""
no both serve other masters
not their union membership
nor the rest of the mug voters

only tghose with too much power and money allready

""hands from out side our country
or from with in it,""

both mate[recall beatup beaty..went os to talk to his masters

""conspiracy to remove Labor.""
no conspiricy
but lets admit...the party adgebnda got stolen[highjacked]

""look at Tony Abbott,stand him,
in your minds eye along side Howard Menzies others
find me a past Liberal leader even close to this bloke.""

mate you gotta work with the lemmon you got

""once in power
are you truly sure Abbott will not betray most of us?""

of course not
but mate they are all corrupt

but at least with tony..
you know he isnt there..*for us

juliar actually thinks she has licence
when clearly she dont

people wont forget
we got burned by liers too much

mate you done scrutinisation...look at ryan by election
like i did...

the alp scrutineers were all swarthy greek/young
the lib scruiteners was a young girl..an old guy...and a few other asorted races/sexes...

it was rather blatent..that
the young greks run the numbers..in ryan

""how many potholes
how many years before Labor returns to power.""

mate in time..we will only vote for,..anyone,,,*NOT party
this is the last chance..to see if..the union party

actually cares for unionists

and ends this..drive..of making of over 100 new laws/levies
sucking the very life blood..from their wages

these new laws mate
are any..helping the unionist?

for god sake lexie
LIST THEM..
[you appear to be some public serrvant
so in your flexie time..read some of them]

[have you read even one of them?]
just cause you make new laws..dont mean they are any good
[heck look at the high court overturning her last ones]

if smokers got it together
those laws would be found to be racist like[biased]
based on spin fear and lies too

are these over 100 new laws legal
or just helping drain them unionist fodderr..dry

lib/lab..two sides of the same coin
mired in gren slime

Antiseptic you will not find me defending a thief, a union official/officer who is such is less than human.
This event, no evidence will be found because it is not in existence Gillard did any wrong, took place while ago.
My union today is the result of amalgamation and restructuring.
Mostly but not all, for the better.
However ,yes thieves operate in unions, headlines challenge others today.
I have, out of my own pocket, payed bills the union should have, because I had doubts I may have contributed to the bills need, cars mostly.
A man currently,well I think it is still on, is said to have taken hundreds of thousands in bribes.
Like every thing, we are on the take, if you supervise construction you will be aware.
Extra plant get hired every thing from brown paper bags to homes being built, massive theft.
I detest the lot, know more construction supervisors and managers who should be in prison, right along side bent union officials.

A similar story http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/australian-workers-union-funds-paid-bill-ludwigs-bills/story-e6freon6-1226130911928

Cost's paid in relation to a legal bill for an action not related to the role in the union.

"Mr Ludwig said the AWU had a long-standing policy that an attack on a union official was an attack on the union.

However, he said the AWU held a meeting regarding the costs incurred in the Carter case. A formal resolution was passed that the union would pay the legal costs, Mr Ludwig said.

Mr Ludwig said he still had a copy of the resolution.

He said union officials lost their private identity when they took on the job of union representation.

"Any attack on them becomes an attack on the union," he said. "That is why their costs are covered"

R0bert

RObert I will not lie Bill Ludwig is one of my hero's
He has been charged with nothing, he may never be.
I in defense of my union fought a few battles ,internally, not one more important than my resignation.
In a fight against a flea riding on the back of my union.
If I was in charge of that Great Union, I would put two things in place before stepping aside and letting youth take over.
School and review every current and future officer of the union.
Educate and remind them they are not wanted if the motive for taking the job is not pride in them selves the union and its members , and too industrial relations last and final resort is strike action.
The other?
Halve union membership/overheads/ internal costs/double union membership
Look RObert at the current culture in this country fraud is not a union illness alone.

This post,maybe two, has been in my head over night and has nothing to do with my reply to RObert.
At my birth not as long ago as you think communications was the valve radio.
The world was a more controlled place.
Church's and religions held tight to our actions.
In the case of Catholics and COE part of governments.
We chuckle and wonder about North Korea, its great leader, but the British crown had many/most? on their knees too.
Call to war on her behalf saw our women, a more fragile less adventuress woman, send the fatal insult, a white feather to send men to die.
Notice the change from my birth.
We communicate instantly, no one dare tell us what to say or think, is that true?
Woman now often lead,men often follow.
No true barriers exist to stop us thinking talking as we will.
But is it working, the regimentation is gone replaced with what?
A tower of babble, insistences that my views be addressed, even if only held by few.
As our population grows yet again, as it has immensely in my life span.
We may find a different world in the future of a western child born today as he/she reaches my age
continued.

What do I think That child will watch become reality.
First what does this old man feeling, think, he see,s.
I see a world needing direction, seemingly in every country stalled by self interest and too many voices/opinions.
I think our child will see, maybe other hands building it now, while we fight over our place on the beach, one world government.
If not now being internally put in place brick by brick, done at some future time.
In the name of saving the human race/planet.
The screams begin now.
I will be branded COMMUNIST SOCIALIST, good morning Col.
Nazi, right wing trog.
I under stand.
I fear it too.
In my life time Communism failed, it killed all need to be better, it blacked the name of true Socialism, yet it too would have died as it killed the will to be better.
Conservative now feel warm and comfortable,DO NOT!
Work choices, the idiotic plan to grow rich by suppressing the poor further was an attempted socialism for the rich.
We will have one government because we daily fail to except responsibility for the way our world is stumbling.
Like sucker fish we impose our selfs on bigger fish and feed on the scraps.
minority's demand majority's cede the ground they stand on.
Humanity can talk, its acting that lets us down.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/immigration/onshore-processing-a-threat-to-social-harmony-labor-told/story-fn9hm1gu-1226131767271
This link could have gone to other such threads.
Those threads are no longer on subject.
And some have left,rather than read thoughts and ideas that are not theirs.
If we, every one of us, read every word of this link.
Read it like it is the very first thing we ever look at from a political view.
Can we all see? surely we can?
This issue is not put up for resolution, it has become a club, on both sides to trash the other side.
We every day prove self interest bars us from results.

Belly I'd be surprised if Ludwig can be charged if the practice of handing over union members fee's to pay the private costs of union officials isn't against the rules. Nor do I think that unions are the only corrupt group in the country.

It's still relevant in light of other revelations at just how self serving a number of union officials have become. I wonder how many other area's there would be where officials could get away with using funds in that manner?

"He said union officials lost their private identity when they took on the job of union representation.

"Any attack on them becomes an attack on the union," he said. "That is why their costs are covered""

R0bert

I will be away for a few days.
For much needed break fishing on the north coast of NSW.
Will be interested to read comments on returning
This morning highlights the threads intentions.
I doubt we can talk.
My last 50 posts will find me shafting that unionist for betraying his membership.
And defending his right to trial.
Today it is said, and I think it true, the union is infected with such.
Many unions are/have been.
One is nothing but a criminal group.
Yet a whole history of good actions will never see the light of day.
I condemn, every owner of bad union actions.
I insist they go, to prison.
BUT I too state, I gave thousands of dollars out of my pocket freely away, to workers in need ,suffered for it.
I know why unions formed,some no longer do.
No defense!
But why have so many business men stolen so much and we hear nothing of it.
Why do conservative politicians sneak out the cleaners door in Parliament house and we never know why.
We can talk but not be heard , not get opinion in the press, unless it defames Labor, presents the view of a hidden power intent on power with out honor?