Today being Legacy Day I purchased my pin and had a thought for the boys and men we have lost in conflicts, and the ones that are left behind. When I arrived home my bride told me of two girls in school uniform selling Legacy badges in a large shopping mall being asked to leave in no uncertain terms by a security guard. The girls beat an embarrassed and hasty retreat but the shopper who they were selling the badge to called the school to report the incident.
The school rang the mall and it seems that the immigrant security guard has a loose grip on English and our customs, so he quite rightly seen it as an obvious breach of mall regulations.

I have always found the "Americanisation process" that the yanks have their migrants go through before citizenship a bit corny, what does it matter to the migrant who George Washington was; they are interested in the here and now. But the long term sense in pushing the star spangled and apple pie aspect of the society is obvious in the way that minority groups readily identify themselves as "American Lebanese, American Armenians, American Italians etc, excepting the African Americans who claim their heritage as first call because they were not immigrants.

Here in Australia it is Greek Australian, Lebanese Australian, or just I'm Vietnamese etc. We should employ a non sectarian, non political indoctrination program on what our society is about, its social idiosyncrasy and the expectations of your fellow Australians rather than the Commonwealth Governments expectation of yourself. Most new chums go onto a benefit of one sort or another and the fulfillment of such a course should be a requisite of getting that benefit and indeed citizenship. But we don't, and we won't, because the politically correct social engineers do not want a national identity as that breeds compatriotism.

Shopping centres are private property with public access and permission needs to be sought from centre management before peddling your wares. Doesn't matter who, or what, the cause. If they didn't need permission you wouldn't make in five feet without someone ELSE trying to flog you something. Then you'd be whinging about that.

I'm sorry, I got lost from there trying to figure out your point.

I bought my pen said thanks to the two ex diggers and moved on.
We can hardly verbally kick your bloke for not knowing.
And bet you, if we in his country got kicked for not understanding you would be upset.

Sonofgloin,
I understand where you are coming from and what you are saying,and it is unfortunate that the girls were prevented from selling the Legacy badges in the mall. It is a pity that the girls did not insist to see the management as Legacy is a cultural tradition in Aus.

While potential migrants receive information about our society and culture, that cannot be expected to cover every aspect and migrants still need to learn a lot by experience.

The biggest problem we have in this area is multiculturalism which infers that people coming here can carry on their way of life as they always have done and that we will accomodate their cultural ways.

Sadly, because of MC, we have failed to keep our patiotism to Australia. We see people supporting many other countries over and above Aus, even some that are born here refer to themselves as nationals of their parents origin. We have seen Kurds and others demonstrating about something in their country of origin, Serbs and Croats born here fighting over some old disputes and now the Sri Lankans and Tamils are doing the same. Third generation Lebanese still refer to themselves as Lebs.

We need to abandon the ideology of MC completely and promote Australian society and nationality. We have much to be proud of, including the tradition of Legacy.

Guys I am not hooking into the guard, as I said he was rightly enforcing policy, but it is his ignorance of it "being a given" in Australia that school kids in uniform selling Legacy badges have free run of the streets and shopping precincts for the day that I address.

Westfield, Lend Lease and the other retail operators allow the sale of Legacy badges as a social and cultural responsibility. I expect that it is such a cultural norm that they do not send out a memo to mall managers reminding them that Legacy badge sellers will be operating on that day, it's "a given".

StG my point is cultural indoctrination. In the USA you can be from Mars and follow your cultural bent within the broader society (within the existing laws), but there is a mandatory Americana historical, cultural, and social course you must complete if you are a legal migrant in the US. Public servants who are posted overseas receive an indoctrination on the culture they are about to move to, but we bring in migrants with no common language and vastly different cultural backgrounds and expect them to look learn understand and integrate without help.

Migrants tend to enclave, they have language issues, they become insular so their ability to comprehend the “flavour” of the society they have moved to is limited, and they misunderstand what is evident to we who were born here. If I were dictator tomorrow I would institute an indoctrination syllabus that would encompass the following subjects”
Indigenous culture and history
Australian history
Arts
Civics and citizenship
Cultural institutions
Events
Film and television
Literature
Recreational activities
Sports

As I said we indoctrinate our public servants before overseas postings but we do nothing for our new chums and wonder why they do not know about Legacy Day.

sonfogloin:" there is a mandatory Americana historical, cultural, and social course you must complete if you are a legal migrant in the US"

Actually there isn't, you can become a permanent resident and get a green card without any sort of 'social course' or even an English language requirement (the US doesn't have an official language).

What you are describing is the study required for the citizenship test. Australia also has a citizenship test.

In any case, I don't think the US is a very good example of your vision of cultural integration through immigration coursework.
Quite the opposite in fact.

Also, what you take a given, in that everyone is aware of Legacy Day and the 'unwritten rules' associated with it is a fantasy. You may be, but I reckon a very good percentage of native born citizens are in fact not.

Exactly so Banjo, it's been evident to me when speaking to Americans if they refer to their cultural background they throw American in front of their ancestor’s homeland. Not here, we place no value on our own culture, but it formed a society and country envied by the said Aussie migrants and their kids who still refer to themselves as Lebanese Australian Italian Australian, etc etc etc.

PC sees us selling ourselves short and empowering cultural norms from migrants that do not transfer to a first world society. What makes me laugh (regarding the intelligence of the PC practitioners) is that these same freedoms that allow other cultures to import alien traditions would be taken from us should the practitioners of the alien culture hit critical mass, and as we have and will see with our senate of Greens they only need to be a few key numbers to dictate outcomes.

Bugsy your right re the citizenship/ green card but the premise still stands, immigrants to the US identify themselves as Yank first, country of origin second. I wonder if Aussies who have taken US citizenship refer to themselves as American Aussies, if anyone knows, let me know. Personally I would refer to myself as Aussie Yank, but if I went to live in Holland I would have no problem referring to myself as Dutch Aussie, it’s a personal perception thing, I couldn’t be proud of America, but that is me.

Regarding what I expect as a cultural norm not being identified as that by others, that is an example of the watering down of the national celebrations and aspirations that bind us as a nation in a non political manner, as Aussies, not left, not right, not green, not wog, not chink, not fob, not leb, not skippy, just us poor non decision making taxpayers being manipulated by the social engineers.

Times have certainly changed.

Up until the early 1970s, assimilation and the preservation of
"White Australia," continued as the Australian Government's official
policies - where migrants of every ethnic origin were expected to
assimilate promptly into a monocultural mould of Australian
identity, based on the Angl-Saxon and Celtic culture.

The ideal migrant was the one who assimilated easily, one who
became more similar to the host population as a result of social
interactiobn and through shedding of attributes of their culture.

It was great to claim, "I'm British, you know," but definitely
not OK to say - "I'm Greek, Italian, or any other "different" culture."

At present, Australia is one of the most etnically
diverse societies in the world. Like it or not - there it is!

Some people still feel most comfortable with a
singular national identity and assimilationist policy. Like
our previous PM - John Howard.

Yet today - we live in a country which now involves living together with an awareness of cultural diversity.

Becoming a citizen gives people the opportunity to call themselves an
Australian. It's the final and most important step in their
migration journey. It's a common bond for all Australians,
whether by birth or by choice. With that comes responsibilities and
the opportunity of participate fully in Australian life.

It's unfortunate that the security guard was only taught to
"follow the rules," at his place of work. It was up to Management
to have foreseen and prevented the situation that unfortunately
occurred. Next time - Management hopefully will be better prepared
and will provide the necessary training to all of their security
staff.

sonofgloin,
The ideology of multiculturalism has pushed our own culture aside, even to the extent that little history and geography seems to be taught in our own schools, so maybe the poster is right, who said Legacy may not be so well known as we like to think. I wonder how many school kids know the significance of the '11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month'. Would your mall management instruct the security to allow the poppy sellers on that day. How many actually observe the minutes silence on the day?

Not long ago, I was speaking to a very bright young miss, about 12, from Melbourne and I asked her a few simple things about her state. When was Melbourne first settled, who is Governor of Victoria. Her reply was 'We don't learn that stuff' Frankly, I thought it was basic primary school history.

Herin lies the problem, we do not promote our own history and culture.
Mulitculturalism has made such irrelivant.

We need to do much more to promote strong nationalism in Aus. If immigrant parents wish to inform their kids about their heritage, they can do that at their own expense. Our government efforts should be aimed at promoting our own.

Millions have been wasted in promoting the cultures of other countries.

sonofgloin:" if they refer to their cultural background they throw American in front of their ancestor’s homeland".

What a load of rot. That doesn't happen at all. It's always Italian-American, African-American etc. That is because -American is the identifier and the cultural background is the modifier/descriptor, i.e. the last is the more important.

This whole thread is just another excuse to have a whinge about PC and MC, without even seeming to show any desire get any facts right, just what you perceive the world to be.

The premise still stands? The premise is rot.

Dear Banjo,

I deal with school groups all
the time and they certainly are taught their
country's History, as well as -
English, and Social Studies.
It's part of the school curriculum. What you're
saying is nonsense - based on bias and ignorance.

Teachers of English and Social Studies know
how difficult and time-consuming it is to
gather information and stimulus materials which
enables them to challenge students to explore and
understand the complex social issues which will
confront them both now and in the future. In response
to teacher requests there are a whole series of
texts provided dealing with a variety of issues which
provide a collection of readable, accessible and visual
material, providing a focus for discussion, clear thinking,
writing and research activities.

For example - articles from, "The Age,"
newspaper, and other sources, are carefully selected,
concisely edited, and enhanced with cartoons, and photographs
from various archives. These thought-provoking materials
are accompanied by questions that encourage
comprehension and invited reflection.

All these strategies
are used in ways in which teachers can even further
extend their use of the materials in the classrooms to clarify,
analyse, discuss and research the issues with the students.

You keep blaming "multiculturalism" on a variety of
problems. What you need to do is actually educate yourself
to the realities of this country.

Many of the 6.5 million people who have come to Australia
since 1945 were motivated by a commitment to family, or
a desire to escape war, persecution, or poverty. They were
determined to establish a new life for themselves and their
families and were willing to work hard to make the most
of their opportunities.

More than 100,000 migrants from 30 countries worked on the
Snowy Mountains Scheme, a huge hydro-electric power
generating project in the Australian Alps. The project took
25 years to complete, from 1949 until 1974.

Australia is a nation of migrants. Throughout Australia's
history, millions of migrants have helped build our country.
Twenty-two percent of our population was born overseas.
They have added to the rich tapestry of Australian life.

Lexi,
If what you say were correct about all the wonderfull resourses teachers now have available to them, then they and schools make little use of them. KIds know little of our history or geography.
They are not taught about the foundations of their state or their parliaments. They know little about our explorers or the start of our vast primary industries or of the gold rush days. Their knowledge of our writers and poets like Lawson and Patterson, is abysmal, let alone recite any of their works. Ask a kid about Dorothy MacKellar and to recite 'My Country". The significance of the stars on our flag.
Ask about Sir Henry Parkes or William Farrer? Also what is 'Armistice Day'? All basic primary school stuff.

Kids are simply not taught such things these days. No kid should leave primary school in NSW not knowing who crossed the Blue Mountains, its importance, and the year. They are filled with touchy, feely garbage instead of basic information about our country and our heritage.

Immigration played an important role in our history, especially since WW11 but that all changed about 1970 when multiculturalism was forced upon us. Vast amounts have been spent on MC in effort to make it work and has failed. We are now a nation of tribes, not one community as we should be. 'Unity in diversity' is the greatest lie in this country.

The sooner we are rid of MC the better and more unified we will be. We need to fight to retain our values, before they are all gone.

Dear Banjo,

All I can suggest to you is to go visit your nearest
school on an open day - and the school's library.
Speak to the staff about the subjects that are taught.
You may learn something. Also pay a visit to your MP
and get a copy of the booklet called, "Becoming an
Australian Citizen." There you will see the range of
subjects that are covered for the newcomers.
If still in doubt pay a visit to your local library
and talk to the Youth Services Librarian - express your
concerns about the subjects that you feel are not being
covered in our schools today. They will be glad to
provide you with the proof that you require.

As for multiculturalism - You're entitled to your negative
point of view.

I firmly
believe that Australia's cultural diversity is a
strength which makes for a dynamic society. Within a
framework of laws, all Australians have the right to
express their culture and beliefs.

I see Australia's
national identity in the 21st century, as a nation
at ease with the world and with itself.

Cheers.

Lexi,

....except if the world comes floating up to Christmas Island in flimsy fishing boats.

In that case, Australians become very "uneasy" with the world - and judging form the prevailing mindset expressed on OLO, would rather seal itself off from it.

Lexi,
I do have the booklet 'Becoming an Australian citizen' and had it since it came out. The citizenship test does not test for general knowledge, as the answers are all in the booklet. Its a matter of simply memorizing the booklet. I do not mind that as at least they have to read the booklet. I also like to think that my lobbying had a bit to do with prospective migrants now getting information about Aus, before they committed to immigrate. i.e. on applying for a visa.

I do not have to attend school open days, I speak to parents and the kids themselves about what they are taught about our history, etc.

Last night at a friends home, my hosts daughter, age 12, had two of her friends staying over and I took the opportunity to ask them a question or two. The girls are all in year 7. Question 1. Who first crossed the Blue Mountains. None knew. Q 2. Who is the NSW Governor.
Again none knew, one offered the GG as a possibility. I then asked if they were taught Australian history and the reply was, 'We were taught about japan last term'.

Might I suggest to you that you give some basic questions to kids in this age group and you will be surprized at how little they know of our country.

The point of this is that if we do not promote our own history, heritage and culture how can we expect immigrants to know about or value such things as Legacy and Armistice Day, that us oldies simply take as a given.

This situation has came about since the introduction of multiculturalism where the emphasis has been on every other culture except our own. I do not agree that MC has been an enriching experience, except in a very narrow sense, and has greatly contributed to a lack of community cohesion.

Sorry SOG you lost me at public indoctrination program.

Isn't that what many refugees were fleeing such as the Sth Vietnamese in Northern Vietnamese indoctrination camps (or re-training camps).

Correct me if I am wrong but what I think you meant was migrants and refugees need to know about citizen's obligations under the Law which serves to protect all Australians.

Banjo:>> Lexi, If what you say were correct about all the wonderfull resourses teachers now have available to them, then they and schools make little use of them. KIds know little of our history or geography.<<

Banjo I have loads of nurses and teachers in my family for some reason. For example two of my sisters are nurses, a brother is a teacher (a real brother I might add) my bride is a secondary teacher and one of my daughters will go into the secondary system after uni this year, not to mention cousins and in laws. Teachers and nurses are like cops, they socially enclave.

When I whinge about the dumbing down of our youth I have the baby boomer teachers agreeing and the gen X’s not. I argue that since the Wyndham Scheme politicized education, the “mean” has become the benchmark and excellence frowned upon, the politicized Board of Studies just wants everybody to pass. We have equipped our kids for the future if the Examination results from the Board of Studies are to be believed, a generation with the highest matriculation percentage in our history. But have a look at the number of students going on to do tertiary courses involving higher math, it is the lowest in fifty years. We produce social engineers day in day out but real engineer grads are thin on the ground.

The “excellence” that we previously nurtured went out the window when mathematics courses were changed to focus primarily on calculus, previouly geometry and trig encompassed 40% of higher math syllabus but was dropped to less than 5%. Banjo most teachers don’t what they are talking about, they parrot and rote without understanding the concepts. I surmise our Lexi is in the Education system, it was infiltrated by Fabians in the 1960’s at the same time the Fabians brought in Comprehensive education in Britain, which has also seen a demise of “home grown” students going on to do higher mathematics subjects.

“But you tell the youth of today that and they just don’t believe you” …..a line from Monty Python.

Pelican I see your point, but in my defense in using the term indoctrination, one that may carry a negative connotation to some, I would surmise that these same refugees you allude to come from a system that employs indoctrination and propaganda. I am sure that these folks would be able to tell the difference between a political or religious indoctrination at gunpoint (which was the flavour you brought to their experience) and an indoctrination of a cultural overview of their new home.

Why is any imposition on migrants seen as castigation on that person because of heritage? All I said was that a mandatory course about Australia is needed rather than throwing them to the suburbs without a clue.

Our social welfare system wraps our citizens in newspaper and immigrants legal or otherwise in silk, and it doesn’t end there. Aussie citizens can go to the U.N but no Aussie advocate lawyer is waiting in the wings to make his voice heard, but illegal’s can go to U.N if our judicial system turns them down with a gaggle of social advocates pleading their case.

Pelican what is wrong with teaching migrants about the social and historical face of Australia...would it offend the...does it offend you.

sonofgloin,
I cannot comment on any of that as I have no knowledge at all on those issues.

I do recall what we were taught at primary school and I remain convinced that our general knowledge of Australian history, society and literature was far supperior than that of the kids today.

I see the standards falling with the introduction of multiculturalism, when we were even told by some that we had no culture. The demise of teaching Australiana was not accidental, in my view.

Dear Banjo,

Instead of blaming the education system and
multiculturalism in this country - why don't you
encourage your children to learn about your
copuntry's history yourself - if you think and feel
that things are so bad with the current education system.
Whinging about it won't achieve anything - do something
about it instead. I've always taught my children - nursery
rhymes, poetry, all sorts of stories,
Australian literature, et cetera -
(bought them books by the bucket -full), took them to
their local libraries, et cetera. I actively
participated in their lives and made them very much aware
of who they are and their history. Sometimes it's a parent's
responsibility to do something about things - if you
don't like what's happening around you - especially as
far as your children are concerned. Don't complain.
Correct it!

Lexi,

I absolutely agree that it is a parent's responsibility to provide information about these things to their children. So often in our system, parents are misled into assuming that children only learn things in school. If one stops to examine the situation, however, it's clear that a child's learning goes on all the time. I know that my own daughter is much more influenced in her adulthood by the information that was provided at home, her reading and the subjects she sort out for herself in her formative years than anything she learned in the institutional setting of school.

Parents need to be constantly reminded that they should look outside the square, and that they have much more influence than they realise.

"Pelican what is wrong with teaching migrants about the social and historical face of Australia...would it offend the...does it offend you."

No but that is not what you were suggesting albeit probably worded not as you intended. It would offend me if some officious bureaucrat was attempting to indoctrinate me into some sort of behaviour modification program treating me as second class and assuming I can't think for myself even if my language skills were not the best.

You can provide information to migrants and refugees about Australia including history, legal structures, democracy, language, assistance with employment, access to health/education etc that help them to settle here without too many difficulties. But that is not indoctrination and those services are already in action.

The only obligation a migrant has is the same as any Australian citizen all equal under the Law; and that is to abide by the laws and failure to do so means consequences.

I don't agree with different laws for different groups as I believe all citizens should enjoy the same freedoms, rights and protections.

Dear Poirot,

I have always believed in the importance of the role
that parents play in instilling traditional values in
their children. What is important is the content of our
children's hearts and minds, or what is often described
as character. As I've stated in the past - when we
say, "It's what's inside that counts," we speak a simple
but profound truth.

Books have always been a part and parcel
of my children's lives. I've tried to direct my children
to books that are age appropriate and geared to their
interests.

I believe that books are still the most
memorable artifact of childhood. They're not only good for
the child, they're a family resource beyond anything that
any medium has to offer. And to me, children's books remain
what the best of them have always been, a powerful transmitter
of the culture and the values of civilisation.

There are so many wonderful Australian children's stories
out there - all one has to do is go to one's local library.
And they're free.

lexi and poirot,
You are always whinging and complaining about the opposition and Abbott, so do something about it. Stand against him in his electorate. Electors should get off their bum and have a go!

Now you have no idea what I do for my family and i never said I was concerned about my kids, if any. Even if i were that does not fix the overall problem of not giving sufficient teaching time to kids about our history, society and heritage.

I think all parents have the right to expect that schools in Aus teach about matters pertaining to our history and culture. This currently is being neglected and has been for some time. This is obvious from the lack of knowledge kids have on completion of primary school. The state education systems have been caught up in the multicultural band wagon and neglected our own history, society and culture.

You imply it is perfectly Ok to teach our kids about other countries and their cultures, but when it comes to Aussie subjects the parents must provide the resourses. Not good enough, the opposite should apply.

Over the last 40 odd years state and federal governments have provided millions to promote alien cultures and nothing to promote or preserve our own culture.

But thanks for reminding me of this and I will now start to lobby the new government in this state. A good start would be to cut the funding to the state ethnic affairs as one way of saving.

Banjo, fresh from the media this morning. School syllabus will soon include a subject on "cultural acceptance and appreciation". Millions in resource will be spent and 40 individuals apart from the teaching staff will be roaming the school system to ensure we wipe out Australian culture.

sonofgloin,
Saw that article. Gillard announced the new MC council last April and as MC has been losing public support for a long time, it appears that they now intend to indocrinate the kids. Not surprising that this government will support this. Another unpopular move!

The previous government was happy just to let MC die a natural death and nothing much has been heard about it since the last election.

But anyway, there will be a change of government and maybe before too much damage can be done on the MC front.

Best we make sure the Opposition is aware of this move and also the state governments. There will be votes in this for the federal opposition and in QLD. Financial gains for the other states in the demise of MC.

Dear Banjo,

I'm so pleased that you've finally decided to take
action and I sincerely wish you all the best in
your endeavours. Even if you don't succeed - at least
you will know that you did your very best instead
of just complaining about things. And that's
all that any person can do.

Good Luck with it.

Lexi,
I always have done other things, like lobby governments with my views.

Some success has came my way, like changing procedure to get info about Aus to prospective immigrants BEFORE they committed to come here. I also make submissions to various government committees on matters that interest me. At the moment I am lobbying the NSW Minister for Women, in relation to prosecutions for FGM.

But I also find it valuable to air some things on OLO as it may give insight into others thoughts or likely arguments against my views.

Since yesterday, I have written to the NSW Treasurer and the Minister for Education in relation to matters on this thread. I will follow that up, but one has to be persistant.

Having a PC has made it easier.

Dear Banjo,

I had no idea. And, as I said - Good Luck
with what you're doing. I wish you all
the best. At least you are doing something
positive.

wipe out Australian culture.
SOG,
that's already done. The present step is to invent history in line with funding appeal.