Last night the topic on Radio National’s Australia Talks was innovation. The blurb reads as follows:

>>Australia is not as innovative as other developed countries, a recent government report has found. Yet experts agree that our economic future after the mining boom will depend on innovation and entrepreneurship. So what's preventing innovation here and how can we encourage Australians to think up and invest in bright ideas.>>

See: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/australiatalks/stories/2011/3291151.htm

One very rough widely used measure of a country’s innovativeness is the number of patents registered in the USA. I ranked selected countries by US patents per million of population and per billion of GDP. Here are the rankings:

1 Taiwan 417.6 (patents per million of population)
2 Japan 371.4
3 Korea 256.5
4 Israel 256.5
5 Germany 167.3
6 Canada 162.0
7 Singapore 133.5
8 Australia 95.5
9 UK 80.4
10 France 78.1
11 Italy 36.9
12 China 2.5
13 Brazil 1.1
14 India 1.0
15 Turkey 0.6
16 Indonesia 0.0

By this measure Australia ranks ahead UK, France and Italy but way behind the top 3 (Taiwan, Japan, Korea)

Obviously wealthier countries should have more innovation. How do we do if we measure patents per billion dollars of GDP?

1 Taiwan 22.4 (patents be billion of GDP)
2 Korea 12.4
3 Israel 9.0
4 Japan 8.6
5 Germany 4.8
6 Canada 3.5
7 Singapore 2.8
8 UK 2.2
9 France 2.0
10 Australia 1.7
11 Italy 1.1
12 India 0.7
13 China 0.6
14 Brazil 0.1
15 Turkey 0.1
16 Indonesia 0.0

NB: I have used market exchange rates, not purchasing power parity, for the GDP numbers.

We are again way behind the top 3 (Taiwan, Korea, Israel). In fact we are definitely punching below our weight.

I’ve taken population and GDP data from the CIA World Factbook.

You may find the patent data here:

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/ido/oeip/taf/cst_utl.htm

It’s not all bad news. The number of Australian patents filed in the US is increasing rapidly. But so is the number filed by the top 3

How can we improve Australian innovativeness?

We make plenty of patents and inventors- sadly our governments are too busy sending $1000 bribes to bogans to make any real effort to assist or build markets with our best and brightest.
I mean, an Australian man built a revolutionary new weapons system that could fire a million bullets per minute with no moving parts (thus has absolutely no chance of breaking down or jamming)- he showed it to the Australian government, and they TURNED IT DOWN- so he went to America to make the contracts instead and now, what could have been OUR export, is now basically operating in America in conjunction with American arms manufacturers.

I can honestly say that if we had made any real attempt to start putting these products to serious manufacturing, Australia might have actually returned to being an exporter once again.

And we wonder why we have a 'brain drain'.

King Hazza wrote:

>>...sadly our governments are too busy sending $1000 bribes to bogans to make any real effort to assist or build markets with our best and brightest.>>>

I can't help thinking that with that one comment you encapsulate part of the problem. Australians seem to have a mindset that it's up to the government to, well, to do something.

Where are the Australian venture capitalists?

Where are the Australian companies ready to take a punt on new technology?

I suggest that the real issue is not government's unwillingness to help, but the absence of a risk-taking culture in Australian business. And by a "risk taking culture" I don't mean taking a punt on dodgy derivatives; I mean investing in real products.

In the US, for all its faults, that culture still exists.

The question should be about how much Australia is subduing the motivations and interest of entrepreneurs in doing something original. People are naturally creative, it follows from their curiosity. But when children are not encouraged to develop their talents they become less interested in creativity and the thoughts that precede it. It is a matter of education and the countries at the top of the list have the kinds of education facilities which may not be academic so much as capable of encouraging thinking on all levels.

Many of the innovative the things we do are not patented nor do they need to be, so this criterion for inovation is very rough and crude and innacurate.

"""
The question should be about how much Australia is subduing the motivations and interest of entrepreneurs in doing something original.
"""

That's it in a nutshell!

Just try to do something here if you're a little guy or a kid and then walk away in disgust at all the rules, regulations and bureaucracy you have to wade through before you can get started!

People look at America and how innovative they are, well of course they are, they promote it and you can get your hands on whatever you need and how much you need without some bureaucrat asking you a million questions and making you fill out a million forms and making you jump through a million hoops!!

20 years ago I innovated and started a high tech local and export, manufacturing business that went on to be extremely successful. Today, to start that same business is not possible unless your already rich, so why bother?

Australia, the land of the stifled!

most of the inventions of man
come via the spirit..but which..*inventions
much depends..on mans mindset

[thus as much..the man
as the idea]

lest we forget
the patent clerk..[ein-stein]

i note this

""The chafing Zionist-Christians..and evangelists
no longer have patience to wait..for doomsday.

This is the day,..according to their faith,
we shall happily perish in;

most of the Jews will die in Armageddon
the final battle..of between good and evil..against them,
just so that Jesus,..OUR*..savior,..may finally rise from the *dead.

And the handful..who survive
will carry out the thousand-year vision..
by accepting the rule of another faulse MATERIALISTIC..*God.

This is the vision that rabbis,..settlers and other sorts of nationalist zealots..are cooperating with..and spreading a red carpet at the next faulse messiah’s feet.""

jesus came and returned
back to the fathers heaven

never/the-less

lets hear what he would say
if his..creative/INventive..imagination was set to work..

on this day

to quote saul/paul..""they are a law..for themselves,
even though..they do not have the law.

15 They show that..the requirements of the law
are written on their hearts,..their consciences
also bearing witness, and their thoughts..sometimes accusing them..and at other times even defending them.)

16 This will take place..on the day
when God judges people’s secrets..through Jesus Christ,..as my gospel declares.

The Jews
and the Law

17 Now you,if you call yourself a Jew;
if you rely on the law..[oe science of man]..and boast in God;

18 if you know his will..and approve of what is superior
because*..you are instructed by the law;

19 if you are convinced..that you are a guide for the blind,
a light for those who are in the dark,..20 an instructor of the foolish,..a teacher of little children,..because you have in the law

*the embodiment of knowledge and truth—*

21 you,then, who teach others,
do you not teach yourself?

You who preach..against stealing,..do you steal?
the land of the semite..[palestinian]..the patent of other?

22 You who say..that people should not commit adultery,..
do you commit adultery?

[ie adulterate the words/meaning..INVENTION of the messiah's
unto men AND the law of good..[of god]..[holy spirit]

You who abhor idols,..do you rob the wealth of the temples?

23 You who boast in the law,..
do you dishonor God by breaking the law?

24 As it is written: “God’s name
is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”

25 Circumcision has value
*if you observe the law,..but if you break the law,
you have become..as though you had not been circumcised.

26 So then, if those who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements,..will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised?

27 The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who,..even though you have the..written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.

28 A person is not a Jew..who is one only outwardly,
nor is circumcision merely outward and physical.

29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly;
and circumcision is circumcision of the heart,..by the Spirit,..not by the written code.

Such a person’s praise
is not from other people, but from God.

JUST AS WITH ALL GOOD IDEAS
it is not we who invent truths
but we who invent fairy tales rites process and ritual

but of truth
none is invented...but by in-aspiriation...of him
that good via the good..that of war and destraction/destruction of the jinn

Romans 3
God’s Faithfulness
1 What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? 2 Much in every way!

First of all, the Jews have been entrusted
with the very words of God.

3 What if some were unfaithful?
Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness?

4 Not at all! Let God be true,
and every human being a liar.

As it is written:

“So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge.”

5 But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.)

6 Certainly not! If that were so,
how could God judge the world?
[by measure of man?]

or the grace mercy good of spirit
conveying the love of god

7 Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?”

8 Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just!

No One Is Righteous
9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. 10 As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”[b]
13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”[c]
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”[d]
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”[e]
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.”[f]
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

19 Now we know that whatever the law says,
it says to those who are under the law,..so that
every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.

20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law

we become conscious of our sin.
as well as the sin of br-other
as well as the sinner..in oursel

ok lets return back to inovation...[a funny word eh what?]
ok stand up..take a bow..take your 'ovation'
glory hounds so love glories]..

however inglorious

take mr noble..the inventer of destruction by die-nomite
he claims the patent to much of the worlds destructions
[thus is much honoured in hell]

now see him sitting at his bench in-venting
hoping for his ovation..[ok in-ovation]

ie..the cheers and jeers of his peers

he thinks how can i blow up my wife into little bits
[now all thought is like a magnet]..to think a thought..
is to attract or repell all other thought..[obsess]

so say i now think of this one thought
my thought is like a magnet..that stretches accros the aether
and links up to the other[like minded]..thought

i feel im talking as if in my mind
but the reality is we are conversing with like minds
we in this reality..they in their reality..but both fixated with the in-flux..in-flow[in-spiration]..of our like minded intrest

now how do i get a new thought
only by..the other thought...getting its input
with a flash..a song is born..or a new invention in-vented

i dont expect you to get that the idea
didnt so much come from your mind
as was fed into it..[in spirated]
from the spirit

think of it much like a collective mob madness
where the growd goes insane..but on a more..one to one level

we all have it
have you ever been upset..[or happy]
felt for one instant..you knew everything
its the same thing

we can only grasp that we real-ise
ie know..or know of..ie recognise by our own knowing

bah its so much like throwing pearl before swine
who dont recognise pearl..as an abstract concept
that could feed them for life

if only they could concieve true value
but because they are beasts..it just goes over their heads
in one sows ear..and out the other...[the dont get such basics such as love one and other]

if you never heard of a silken purse
you cant even create a sows ear..[hear?]

no i guess not

Is Australia innovative?

Yes Australia is innovative , as well as
being - creative in the Arts. Unfortunately,
the greater majority do not appreciate the
talent and treat it as a threat to the status
quo resulting in our talent turning to overseas
markets for both financial and artistic support.

With our attitude I would not be surprised that
China will take advantage of this as they have
so far demonstrated. In the 60s and 70s our
talent went to the UK and the US. Now its turning
to Asia. Who knows what the future will bring?

Look at our manufacturing industry moving to Asia,
even Qantas is now talking about moving its base to
Asia - if we don't work on productivity to reduce
costs, work on innovation to differentiate our
products overseas from other products, and also work
on the quality of our products - our manufacturing
industries will slowly be unable to compete.

lexie..its not about competing..but about seeing the most basic 'advances'..today is ever more about co-operating

its not that you can invent and build a ferrai
but that you can appriciate or afford others 'in-ovating' its creation

its well known..that we all have 'idea's'
but what is the idea..without the means to bring the idea into reality

we have on this forum..[for egsample]..a guy who invented some telephonic switching device[but though he thunk it..he dont own the patent rights[thus dont own the income that came of it]

and if i think of a thing
but dont recieve an ovation..[or material reward]..for thinking it
its not likely i will give it any further thought[and somehow those who only think of making money..only get thoughts..of making money..not an advance on telophony]

its a fact..that alone man [or his/her].ideas..are as nothing
it like even getting the visioon of the idea..begins and ends with a co=operation

and if spirit..dont get any credit
it quite simply is going to not give any more 'in-vention'

it sounds absurd..even to the spirits dictating this to me
but im quite content..to write their word forms for now
knowing its not thinking that comes only from me

[and im quite content for others to say..im mad..
that the words do come from me..but i know its not so..
so i will never claim them as my own..in the main from fear their influx/inflox will end]

we all have the need to be appriciated
from angels to demons..and thus even from god
its perhaps good we cant see..the unseen cause..be-cause
things just might be simpler yet more complex..than they seem

because we all have the cetainty
more shall be given

i get reluctant to share the in-flux into my mind
thus prefer to leave much unsaid...but as so much has been freely given me..i feel its only fair i try to give others some votive motive
[by way of ovation][if only in word and thought..

i keep getting a vision
of that world trade center memorial
being some inflow from hell...[i cant even recall how when i saw the darn thing..but its symbology really smells]

so lets reveal the vision...of two dark poo-ls
black dark holes if you will..[one for each tower]
as we aproach the thing it looks like two pools of water

as we stand near it..we hear the sound of water falling[a long way]
what fels like near 18 meters..down a black wall..the black water flows out to the center..where it again plunges downwards

what will ever emerge from them
who can tell..[i could ask my inmagination
but it says...the sceme of the darkones will fail]

is it all imagination
its cetainly not inovation
i guess thats all just as well

Australia is a very innovative country., it is a pity that Australian companies and other 'Brands' go off shore in the name of making more money, and putting people working for them in Australia on the dole queue.
Fortunately we have some brilliant researchers in the medical sphere, but even then, the government is slow, very slow with funding. It would appear that the powers that be are not interested in cures for the terminally ill et.al.
Too many so-called leaders (both past and present), are too busy feeding their own ego's, and as yet, don't or can't see Australia's potential for research, science and industry in this country.
Sad but true.
NSB

well its good to know someone reads what i write
[even if its only to complain to grayham]

here is what i told him..after he asked me
[after someone else asked him..instead of asking here..[at the topic]

q..''grayham
the topic is about inovation
ie how we get ideas..and how they develop

i showed the process of an idea
agreed athiests might not agree with how i got from there to the final post
but that dosnt negate the link of spirit..assisting us in manifesting the idea

how can i explain something as complex as mind
but by trying to explain the process
[as best as i can..or am able to do]
plus as best as they can grasp what im trying to reveal

if there was an other way to deecribe it
then other's would have explained it long ago

but as usual..its up to you

do you want me to notify you every time someone posts
something i chose to lable..nonsense
days after the event?

i wrote that days ago

anyhow its your forum
complainers are allowed to destract
just because they dont know how things work
or because they know only too well how to shut others up

the question arises
why they bother you
and not ask me to explain AT THE QUESTION
they just might learn something..[as will i]

anyhow
cheers mate

its your choice
not theirs..nor mine''

end quote

its not my fault you [mr/zzz complainer]..
got no imagination..but do know how to complain

best save it while its still up
it is needed to explain context/process

Less industry in AU is going to be the norm; it's the changing times of globalization. We are going to have to live with that. Strip shopping may go by the wayside as well, as people prefer to shop on line.
The innovation will be to come up with means of employment that can not go off shore, or be bought online. America is in the same boat, it is not confined to AU as some would like you to believe, for political purposes.

Internet shopping has taken off just like they predicted, but that's not the sad thing about it, its the once proud retailer/business owner looking lost while standing in line for government support/dole. There's been a steady flow of highly skilled people adding to the poor ranks, and one can almost see their pride being stripped away, as the shameless ring of defeat shines and lights up the room, as the many smirks from others, that,s been there before.

Welcome to the sad reality of the hi-tec, and still other counties, don't see where the humans race is heading.

Robots, computers, etc.........and all seems haunting some how, as the matrix slowly ends our belief that we are inconceivably blind to our ignorance's.

cactus.

i will try to explain again
how things work..that get their ovation in..[in-ovation]

earlier i said
""most of the inventions of man
come via the spirit""

for this is in itself the complete truth
[one needs only look at the figure you first quoted
noting that israel[to wit 3 million]..

have 3 times..the in'ovation..
as 26 million australians have

the why/how of this dispartity
10 fold more 'inventivness..that is often highly lauded

is thanks to a certain agency...helping out..
as much as them having privledged acces
to higher learnings and networking

this thought
was cut off by other inputations
from my spirit guides

""..but which..*inventions
much depends..on mans mindset""

and a carefull study indicates much of the in-ovation
is due to things like the stux and other instruments of war
[i had to cut off the spirit inpute...to continue..with positive influx]

then said

""[thus as much..the man
as the idea]""

and the in-put revealed the visioning..of how so many inventions get thunk of at the same monent in time[and the honours allways seem to go on who gets the credit..ie gets the patent in first]

the imagry[input]..in-spiration
then went on

""lest we forget
the patent clerk..[ein-stein]""

who's duty was to read and vet and record
the first in best dressed

and again i had to censore the negative imputation's

so i got the visioning of the christ
that yet again was only fully able to be comprehended
by reference back to the old test-i-meant

and i was given inspiration
to include this into the topic
as this was an earlier input..from the spirit

i was forced to self censure

that formulated
the context of that which followed

""i note this

""The chafing Zionist-Christians..and evangelists
no longer have patience to wait..for doomsday.

This is the day,..according to their faith,
we shall happily perish in;""

this of course was due to the adrenolin rather than seritonin
[as recently explained in an other topic]

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4675&page=0

the matter was further complicated
by the discussion number of this topic

4666

anyhow in the end
i could only convey that spirit* has inspired

and i for one regret that the ovation
isnt rightfully accorded to them*
that in-spirated the knowing

im forced
by hindsight to reveal
[visioning input..:pearl before swine?]

what use explaining..the things of spirit
to those stuck in adrenolin charged materialism

There are a number of angles to this question, as I see it.

Innovation itself is a product of the imagination, but needs a basic intellectual level within society, and a certain level of technology in order to produce a result.

I'm sure that man imagined for many centuries that he would one day be able to "fly". But to achieve it required a foundation of a particular state of advancement of mechanical engineering, plus the availability of advanced materials and so on, before this imagination could become a reality.

So, first question: are we sufficiently educated, and plugged into the technological world, to be innovative? Answer: mostly yes.

Next, is the economic environment around us sufficiently advanced to underpin innovation and the activities that support innovation?

Obviously the macro answer is yes. We are a rich country. We have the basic resources at our disposal. But at the detail level, there is a fundamental unwillingness of the financial system to support new ideas. Banks are pathologically risk-averse, so they insist that you hand over your house before you get dollar one, which is a disincentive hurdle that many cannot overcome.

And government departments just want you to fill in lots of forms, then gleefully tell you all the reasons why it cannot be done. The one I had most trouble with, before I gave up asking, was "if this idea was feasible, someone else would already have done it." I still have the guy's name written down somewhere...

So, only partly "yes" on this one.

Thirdly, how are innovators viewed in the broader society? Is the culture such that people who have great, new and counter-intuitive ideas applauded? Or are they considered up-themselves freaks, and told to pull their head in?

I'm not even going to bother with that one, we all know the answer.