In which state is there a minimum 4-hour shift?

When I was a student, the minimum was 3 hours. On the measly base rate, that meant I could work 3:30-6:30 for a wonderful $21.33. At least back then - I'm talking the late '90s - I could get something for that.

Recently, it has been decided that schoolkids can be rostered on for 2 hour shifts. Not sure if this is QLD or nationwide - I had assumed the latter.

According to the general retail award (http://www.sda.org.au/news_show.php?id=67&p=General%20Retail%20Industry%20Award%20%202010%20-%20Summary%20for%20Casual%20Employees), the award rate for a shop assistant is 20.59 per hour. U/16s are entitled to 45% of that (9.26 an hour). For a two-hour shift, that's $18.52. Not a lot, really. Even so, at least they have a job. After a handful of shifts, they could even afford to buy their uniforms.

As for cleaners, I take your point about unskilled labour. At $52,000 a year (before tax), they would be taking home more than many uni graduates and many people who have completed an apprenticeship. Once the taxman has taken his cut, it's not a lot to live on, though; and there's little hope of improved pay (unlike those graduates and skilled tradies) except when the award rate goes up.

I guess it's an incentive to upskill. But when everyone's upskilled, who's going to sweep the floors?

Oto, I hope you are right about the 2 hr shift fo students however, this was not the case a few months ago, in qld anyway.

When I was a kid starting out there were two ways. Mae a good income 1. Skills, 2 lots of hours.

This is what has changed and this is what is driving businesses out.

Add to this the preside from the high. Dolla and omline shopping and the result will be the demise of many small businesses,-and that's something you should all be worried about.

I am right as I invested wisely in the good times which has set myself my wife and my kids up but I fear for those with little or nothing a times ahead will be extremely tough, believe me.

I still say that an unskilled wage (38) hr should not provide a decent living.

"I still say that an unskilled wage (38) hr should not provide a decent living."

What do you mean by a decent living? Regardless of aspirational politics some jobs still need to be done and cleaning is one job even those in power cannot outsource overseas (although they do try using migrant labour or those on temporary working visas).

Why should unskilled people not earn a living wage. Some unskilled jobs involve hard physical work even if there is little skill involved. Why is this not recognised or valued as much as skilling or education.

If a wage cannot keep up with the cost of living, mortgages, rents, food, petrol etc do you expect low income earners should live on the streets and beg for their supper until something better comes along.

No pelican,
Not at all.

What i am saying is either they have to work more hours, for similar money, or, the government has to help with th cost of living.

Either way, you can't simply increase costs for business simply because costs of living increase.

It will/ has cost jobs and this is a trend that will continue.

Don't agree! That's fine, just watch this space.

Oh okay, you still are a knob.

I was a cleaner working 3 jobs just to avoid the dole till I got a break in an area I was chasing. I never came CLOSE to $25 an hour. You're dreaming, again. The only way you make that sort of money in the industry is by owning the business. And sweeping floors? More like cleaning up after your disgusting a*se.

Bet you wouldn't last a week in some of the cleaning jobs I had.

STG, you are so out of touch.

Most people who resort to personal insults are like that.

I can only assume you are one of these.

Let me quote a few rates.

Bris entertainment centre. Norm rate, $21.00 per hour, sat more, Sunday and after midnight $40 per hour.

Stop and go operator, not cleaning, but still unskilled, 422 per hour.

And you lot wonder whynther is a skill shortage!