Another death how many injury's?
Every dog has a Wolf in its ancestry we can not change that.
A police or fire engine gos past and that little fluffy hair dyed pink thing at your feet may howl.
I love dogs, but every one of them can turn on some one.
And great numbers, take on the personality traits of their carers.
Do we need to look at the man made changes in dogs?
We love them display them train them and they take on our feelings and often do things because of that is that always ok.

No, not every one will turn on anyone. I've had 10 dogs in my life. Only one of them, a kelpie that spent its first 12 months on a farm, being mistreated because it wasn't a "yard" dog, which was what it had been bought to do, was in any way genuinely aggressive. She had little sense of self-control and was a bit of an escape artist, but even she never attacked anyone and wouldn't even bark at anyone except when she was in her home yard.

The pit bulls are a stupidly dangerous breed that exist only because someone wanted a dog that would become insanely aggressive when in the presence of another animal. A friend of mine has one that is a very gentle animal, but he's very stupid and has little self-control. There's no way I'd trust him not to react to a child running away from him in fear by chasing it down.

At the risk of being accused of racism here, I do have to mention the fact that the victims were Sudanese. In my experience, dogs are much more aggressive with African people, even my dog Max who is normally extremely placid will get quite worked up at an African walking past the yard. I live in an area in which there are lots of African immigrants, both working close by and living here, so I've had lots of chances to observe this effect.I've also noted that many African people seem terrified of dogs. I would imagine that if you come from a country that has had a long-term war, the dog population would have become somewhat feral and feral dogs are very definitely "wolves" in all but name. Perhaps he smells their fear.

In short, don't blame "dogs", blame stupid owners, dumb breeders and poorly-educated people generally. As a child, while dog bites were relatively common compared to today, it was much less common for children to be killed by them. I grew up around unsupervised dogs and learnt to understand how to deal with them. Some didn't.

Dear Belly,

From the pitbulls we've seen walking with their
masters on a leash they appear to be non-threatening
despite their appearance. I believe that all animals
react to a sense of fear and if they are trained to
be aggressive they will attack.

My husband was walking home late at night and was
surrounded by an aggressive pack of dogs. For half
an hour my husband stood with his back against a fence talking
to the dogs in a soothing voice until one of the bigger
dogs turned on the others and chased them away and then
proceeded to follow my husband all the way home.

The next morning he found the dog asleep on the front porch.
We've never seen the dog since.

Dear Anti,

My dog smells people's political inclinations.
He attacks Liberal supporters.
And no - we didn't train him to do that he
just has a natural aversion of some kind.
Maybe its from some experience in a previous life.

I love dogs! have owned kelpies blues, red, black German Shepperd's and my Jessy the loverly Colly, the one in that NZ cartoon.
A dog can live on the front or back porch or be chained up up the back yard.
It too can like mine be in the house at our feet madly demanding we go for a walk.
Every dog, every single one who has been involved in serious injury's, never did it before, or would have been shot.
We train our dogs to Gard to search for drugs lost people, they lead our blind and comfort our hospitals for the infirm.
Pit bull? we know they first came about because of dog fighting in pits, so humans could watch in safety while only the dogs suffered.
We all us dog owners, have story's of our dogs trying to please us, learning what time we get home, the welpanned welcomes, I love dogs.
We too know some people use dogs as an extension of them and their ego, some truly forget, dogs are not live teddy bears.
My mate next door is a Bully hard as iron he bounds to my fence in welcome for his scratch and cuddle.
He treats every one that way a warm cuddly big marsh mellow, he took after his owners.
But, strange but true a car driven by unfriends of those owners drives past twice a day.
Big mash mellow turns into a hate machine, at the fence then and only then a different dog.
Do we need to know why some have dogs?
The next death will come too from a dog that no one thought would ever do that.

Typically dumb kneejerk reaction, Lexi. Still, I'll put it down to your having never known any African people and not having had much to do with dogs. No doubt you've read books about them.

Domestic dogs are usually easily controlled by people: they're bred froma long line of selection for that very characteristic. While working for Optus and Telstra I have walked into literally hundreds of backyards with dogs in them and I have never been bitten except on one occasion when I entered a friend's yard and his Jack Russells got one leg each. Only had one occasion where I felt in any genuine danger and backed out of the yard. I've had lots of owners tell me what a nasty piece of work their fido is though.

If the dog came into the house it was undoubtedly chasing the child, perhaps initially wanting to play or just out of its instinct to chase down prey and becoming overexcited with all the commotion going on. I would imagine the mother would have tried to shoo the dog away, as is only to be expected if you don't know dogs, and the rest is terrible tragic history.

The problem is still with the owner and the breeder of such aggressive breeds. They have no place in the suburbs simply because they are too dangerous around anything smaller than them. They may be perfectly fine most of the time but they're bred to fight, not to be pets.

Dear Antiseptic,

I'm going to take a quote from Pericles
when he once told Col Rouge, "I'm pleased
that you took me seriously. It would have
been a shame - if you'd have thought I was being
merely facetious."

BTW: I actually deal with many immigrants,
including ones from Africa on a daily basis.
A also run Storytime Sessions for their children.

cont'd ...

Totally agree that these dangerous breeds
should not be in the suburbs. And that the
problem does lie with the owner and the
breeder of these dogs. They shouldn't be
kept as pets.

Dear Belly,

I've done a bit more research on the pit bull
breeds. I found out that because of their
fearless, aggressive and tenacious nature, pit
bulls have been used for attacking bulls and
bears and have been used in organized dog fights.
(Organised dog fights are illegal in many countires).

In 1991, the UK government introduced legislation
requiring that dangerous dogs, including pit bulls,
be kept on a lead and muzzled in public.

The law also made it illegal for them to be bred in the
US and Canada, some communities have passed laws
prohibiting or limiting the ownership of pit bulls
and other dangerous dogs, or compelling owners to take
out liability insurance.

Pit bull attacks on people have been blamed on the
natural aggression of the dogs. And some experts consider
that the fault also lies with irresponsible owners, who
may have abused their dogs or brought them up to attack.

Lexi all ok our life experiences tell us different things.
It is said I get on better with dogs than I do with some people.
I do understand them, pit bull came from pit fighting.
I do not want to get too close to current events.
I knew, yep, a Sargent of police, small town cop, good bloke.
He however was a racist.
He had a mini foxie, little dog.
Trained it to terrified people of a certain color.
Bought such people on Saturday nights for drunkenness, those dogs bit and terrorized without command, but after training.
Say you disliked a person in your town,think after a while your dog seeing you as pack leader may pick up your dislike, even act on it.
Rottys are good, in the right hands bad in the wrong.
Almost every breed is.
It take much more than love, it takes understanding to bring up a dog.
Wolfs in the end are the ancestors of even the pink puff balls with earing's too.

This new add at the top the screen is mighty frustrating. I go to click, and the screen interrupts my progressing.

Like most, if you have a dangerous item that clearly is what it is, must come under the acts of firearms and such. Of course you cant put your dog in a lock-up cupboard or anything that conflicts with RSPCA rules and regs, and all knows this four-legged killing/hunting dog is the blood-hunger pit boss it was breed for.

I say NO to the ban in this situation and photo ID'S and have it LIC's like any other High risk goods.

LEAP

Belly...in-stead of being the pit boss you love so much, try 13 in law and have a good go at helping the people.

Dont get me wrong, I too see the human/condition, and trust me, I would listen too most of the time, when its comes to common law.

Belly people, I think just the same way as most do, and we want answers to what gives our lives the most meaning, and that's an interactive competitive understanding that the greatest minds can give. when they have the time:)

I think that's what we are all in it for.

LEAP

Having looked after the awful wounds caused by dog bites
(they last much longer than the average wound because of terrible ongoing infections), and knowing the stories of the victims,
I say to ban pit-bulls and any breeds crossed with them.

There is no point saying it is the owners fault, even if it is, because once the dog has bitten or killed someone, it is too late for that person isn't it?

We could start by having mandatory sterilization for these breeds, and once they are gone, then that's it, no more ugly, violent pitbulls in Australia.
After that, we could go for mandatory sterilization of their owners...

All dog owners whose pitbull maims or kills someone should be charged with assault with a deadly weapon, or murder.

After that, we could go for mandatory sterilization of their owners...

I see the angry, armed with garden implements, coming at anything with a set of testicle....ouch!.....pleaseezzzz...the answer has been given.

A good hunting dog is hard to find now-days, and I do agree Sue in what most would call for, and that's Manslaughter in the case of any human being effected in the way of death, as it is.
I've pig hunted myself with dogs of that nature, and this is what and how things are done, in the bush.

So the solution is given more so, and the owner will pay for the damage.

Jail time.....fair is fair.....

Responsibility is what it is, and the photo Lic and registration costs will be the last call for those that don't understand....or don't drop the soap:)

LEAP

Belly, my dogs have never been trained to attack or bark at anyone. Max reacts to Africans for reasons of his own, and so do the dogs of other friends who've been here when an African person has walked past.

I've already suggested the possibility that people coming from long-term war zones may see dogs as a threat because of the number of feral dogs that must be present in such an environment. I've known Vietnamese people who came here as refugees who have the same terror around unrestrained dogs.

A friend suggested another explanation, which I haven't looked into much as yet, which is that perhaps dogs were domesticated after humans left Africa and so the breeds have been developed to respond to a version of humanity that is Eurasian. Given that dogs have very sensitive olfactory systems, they may react to people with slightly different genetics in different ways. Given the way they react to dogs from other packs, this makes some sense to me as well. It might even just be a difference in diet and hence body odor that the dog can smell. I don't think it has anything to do with colour, as Belly suggests. Dogs are largely colour-blind and colour plays no part in their social interactions, unlike humans.

Wikipedia suggests that dogs were first domesticated about 30,000 years ago in East Asia from gray wolves (Canis Lupus), which might support the hypothesis.

If so, it makes it all the more important for dog owners to be vigilant of their pets given the vast increase in African people living here.

And get rid of the insults to the species, like pit bulls.

I think I'm onto something. The basenji is an African native breed. It is known as a "primitive" dog, in that it shares many wolf-like characteristics and behaviours, while having little attachment to humans, unlike most European/Asian breeds.

They're also known to be less responsive to training. In common with some of the other "pariah dog" breeds, they normally live as semi-feral "village dogs" rather than being attached to any one person. They seldom bark and rarely show any affection for people.

Perhaps Africans are simply acclimated to a view of dogs as nuisances/dangerous and this affects the way they react around dogs in general and hence the way dogs react to them?

Ant man, I must say.....I do disagree with what logic you present. So any that's black, is what the owner teaches the poor animal, and you are going to say, back to smelliness comments of retarded thought process that no-one would ever except. This type of jelly-fish processes can not be excepted in the land of real. Man is smarter than dog! or do you two wish to back to the time, which your foreheads may show the skills you both possess.

The owner is the capital bridge carrier, of the owner which has the time period, as the pup....which I don't think any-one which takes such risks with anything like that, would be the blood hunting flea-bag, that most % wise, are very loved pets.

Its the owners......that makes the pooches, what they are.

A quote from a US judge that's done time.. and I say " One can be judged from what environment he comes from, but the place your born in, makes all the difference..... but of course, the man was just human:).....and he said it with a smile.

You want to see animal, just watch your own T.V/PC/Cable:)

Plenty for you all to get to know one another:)

All the best...

LEAP

A little more about Sudan and dogs

http://www.sudanradio.org/campaign-free-rabies-vaccination-dogs-juba-launched

“This campaign is for the vaccination of dogs against the rabies disease, because we know that rabies disease can affect animals and the human beings. That is why we start this campaign today the eleventh of April till the sixteen of April. We always carry out the vaccination but still there are some dogs that are not vaccinated so we want to make this vaccination to cover all the families that have dogs. The way for this vaccination is this we have divided Juba into centers our team will go to the Centre and will stay there for one day. If it is in your area you will take your dog to the centre and you will get our team members there then they will vaccinate your dog. And if you come to us here in Malakia clinic also there are people waiting there they can vaccinate your dog, the vaccination is free of charge.”

However Mister Fonsianu said that the problem of dogs without owners will be tackled, as officials will kill street dogs."

So rabies is a significant problem. The smart thing for someone living in a country where rabies is prevalent is to avoid dogs that show any form of aggression.

QL, you're obviously finding this difficult to follow. You'll find the following link much easier

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/sanctimonious-tools-live-longer-201108174205/

QL I am making a big effort to get on with you bloke.
And I will continue to, but just having difficulty following your posts this morning, maybe its me?
Anti, sorry but no owner should not do, every thing they can, to stop dogs racially profiling pedestrians, and not trying to be funny.
How many mate, victims both dead badly bitten, or minor are just the white next door neighbors or visitors.
Bare with me,on hearing the word dog , mans best Friend, the best of us think of our mate a pal loyal and there at our feet.
Here on the edge of the NSW Great Dividing range, dogs live in bush homes shanty's caves, are sometimes owned by drug growers to protect a crop.
Look on the back of Utes on Saturday, see the tail wagers just begging for a scratch from the boss.
But see too the lunatic snarling hate filled chain stretching property of a fool.
Blame the owners before the dog but remember those dead children.

Here's another small quote about dogs and Sudan, asked by someone in Sudan. The answer is also revelaing.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090526213338AApWxT6

"I know that there are most important issues to worry about like poverty, injustice, wars, human rights etc..
but i cant stand this everyday image in the streets of sudan, people are afraid of dogs and many of them beat them ..
i saw burnt dogs with rabish, dead dogs, skinny hungry dogs, many sudanese people throw stones to them to make them go away.
Many of them think that dogs are dangerous and will bite them but this is not an excuse from my experience with dogs no dog will attack someone without reason."

Sounds a lot like what I was saying, doesn't it?

Have you ever known a dog to just rush out and bite someone? I haven't. I've never known a dog that would enter a stranger's home without the owner being present or some form of inducement being offered. While the particular dog was obviously one of the more aggressive breeds, even pitbulls don't do this sort of thing.

I would almost guarantee that what has happened is that the dog has showed up (poor ownership) and the mother has freaked out, calling the kids to her and urging them to hurry. The older child may have tried to "tell the "bad doggie" to go away, or thrown stuff at it, causing the dog to react. A dog that size doesn't even have to be serious to do a child serious injury.

Nearly all dog attacks occur when people enter the dog's territory. It is very unusual for this sort of thing to occur and begs the question about what contributed. why do people find this sort of analysis so confronting?

So rabies is a significant problem. The smart thing for someone living in a country where rabies is prevalent is to avoid dogs that show any form of aggression.....and I support those views complicity to the point, regardless of what is, and that isn't:) and thank-you all for the up-pences that this very difficult subject requires.

The point still stands:)

One lump or two.....and don't forget that five mile jog...with mans best friend:)

Enjoy your the PET that doesn't eat you...lol.....and don't forget your MORNING doggy bag:)....

lol....and the day is balanced once again:)

LEAP

Just a small piece from News Limited, which confirms what I suggested above

http://www.news.com.au/national/pitbull-owners-stood-back-and-watched-it-attack-ayen-chol-claim-family/story-e6frfkvr-1226117867049

"The family, which came to Australia in 2004, is seeking answers on why the dog was not controlled. It got into Ayen's house after threatening two of her relatives standing in the driveway. They panicked and ran inside, and the dog followed them into the sitting room."

As I said...

The only thing I'd add is that I doubt the dog was "threatening" anyone until the kids ran away and made a commotion. It's tragic, but it could have been so easily avoided, even after the dog got loose. I have no concern about my children and dogs because they have been properly educated to understand what to do. Sadly, I doubt that these kids have ever had anything at all to do with dogs, except to be told to run away if they see one, which is precisely the wrong thing to do.

I would dearly love to see a proper education program for kids and dogs. Teaching children to deal safely with dogs is not hard and it's not complex. It beats me why we seem so reluctant to take it on when we seem quite happy as a nation to spend money on many less useful things.

"The family, which came to Australia in 2004, is seeking answers on why the dog was not controlled. No poo Ant-man! When did this brilliant peace of Scotland yard detective work, come into our livings rooms!......I mean..."Holy sh!t!.....do you think the Queen's in-breeds are any thing better!? .....of course not:) its sill a f/can/dog! isn't!.......lol...look:) we all feel for any dog aback...where ever its comes from...., but its still the owners responablity, and the childs safety is all of our concern.



LEAP.

People forget that fences were developed to keep things out, as much as in. Perhaps our fencing needs a second thought, we should never have kids suffering dog attacks.

However, there is one thing here I find very annoying.

Just a quick look at the posters will show those most against dogs, because, we assume, of the injury they can cause, are the very ones against others who are injured by wild animals.

Yes they are the ones who expect people to live with hendra virus carrying fruit bats. We can't move them on, even if tens of thousands of them are polluting our drinking water, destroying our livelihood, if we are fruit growers, or infecting our horses & killing us.

The penalty for killing a dangerous snake, that threatens your kids, is greater than that for bashing some poor shop owner with a base ball bat as you rob the shop.

The same people, mostly southerners expect us to live with crocodiles at the foot of the garden, if we are on a northern river, but want to deny us, an admittedly dangerous, guard dog, to warn & protect us.

They are the same people who demanded laws that require me to keep my dogs locked in a small yard, at night, preventing them from protecting my foals & calves from wild dogs. Ask my neighbours how many sheep & goats they find torn to pieces.

It is mostly the same people who want to deny my use of poison to control these dogs, & they are horrified if I want to use a gun, as a last resort.

About time some people got their priorities right.

Hasbeen! you may well have posted in a calm mood but tripe!
The subject of Hendra virus has nothing to do with it.
Anti, please reconsider,it does you mate, no good, no good at all, to constantly refer to the race of THIS VICTIM.
This story is not the first like it, in NSW children have suffered the same awful fate, death the neighbors dog.
Remember my claim to understand dogs.
And that dogs are the wolf still they came from.
Being afraid is some thing dogs understand.
In the wrong dog it switches the attack mode on.
Running too tells the dog some thing.
Wild animals? well often the owners are, but my dogs , every one of them,only ever bit one person,and it happened twice.
She was a pup from the pound,sits at my feet now, fear drove her to nip me as I medicated her for worms.
Here in a thread about our Friends,we still find reason to not address the subject.
I and as far as I can see no one is calling for dog culling.
Owner culling is the answer, if we outlaw these then others will follow,every dog can do this only some would.
Back yard breeders,accidental breeding has produced problems.
In owners as well as dogs.
Has your village lunatic got a dog much like himself?

Not this rubbish again.

Pitbulls- the vast majority of subspecies, are not remotely aggressive.
Virtually every single pitbull I've ever encountered was not only calm, but actually affectionate and social.

The finger of blame lies solely on the owners. Miraculously; paranoid, neglectful, aggressive, OR angry owners raise aggressive, angry and paranoid dogs. Even lazy people who don't know how to handle animals will raise violent pets.

Furthermore, it doesn't even really matter what species the dog is- aggression can come easily from any dog, be it pitbull, rottweiler, chihuahua, or Blue Heeler; all of which capable of mauling a child (the chihuahua would need a smaller child however).
But personal observations imply that the most intrinsically aggressive dogs are actually the more vulnerable dogs- who simply must show aggression to balance the fear of being themselves harmed by larger, stronger animals (other dogs and humans too).

The solution to this problem is to have a pet-owner's license.
Make it an 'opt out' system where any reported cases of mistreatment get reported to authorities, and that individual is added to a federal database that is investigated by petstore and pound owners before an animal may be purchased- and being marked negatively puts a lifetime ban on the individual (and if found in possession of an animal from a house-litter, that person gets fined or imprisoned and the animal given a new home).
Not only will it prevent many attacks- but it will also stop a lot of animal abuse too (usually the abuse causes the attacks).

Of course, THAT would put an inconvenience on the gluttony of ALL would-be pet owners having to demonstrate better parenting skills (which is what it truly is)- than expecting authorities to clip off the parts that are inconvenient to other people only.

King Hazza, I agree with the fact that most pit bulls are friendly and affectionate...to people they, or their owners, know and like!
Certainly, they are a very aggressive dog to other dogs or to any vague form of teasing, such as that given by children at times.

I have cared for an elderly lady living in the country, who went for a walk one day, as she does most days, down her street. A pit bull in a neighbouring house ran out of it's yard, and across the road to bite her on the leg viciously. We attended to her infected leg wound for over a year. She never went for a walk outside again.

Sorry, but humans have to come before aggressive animals, whether it is their owners fault or not.
Yes all dogs bite.
But, hands up those who would prefer to tackle a biting pit-bull to any other breed?

How many of you pit bull lovers would feel the same way about the breed if it was YOUR elderly mum or kids bitten by them?

King Hazza, not having a go at you mate but is that it?
Truly is it rubbish, based on your view this story that has happened, many times,is rubbish lets move on?
No one loves dogs here more than me, never ever would I own a pit bull.
And a great deal of other Bred to kill dogs.
Bad boy belly! but[the pit bull breed came about after it was bred to fight in the pits.
Blue cattle dogs bite more than pit bulls, but how many do they kill.
So lets not do the OLO shuffle, kick people who have different views.
And at the same time place the highest value on our own.
Tell me,do you trust every owner of a pit bull roty or such.
Would you give the druggy up the road more off his head than not a loaded gun.
Or let your kids wander next door while a sub teenager was using dads rifles.
King Hazza, the death toll just in Australia, from this breed or crosses can not be ignored.
I blame first the owner,some are unfit to own such a dog, councils,who fail to check on complaints about savage dogs.
And question not the breed but our need to have them living in Suburbia.
And who? yes who doubts we will again hear of such a story this year maybe month?

There are dozens of dog breeds to chose a pet from, so it is simply beyond me as to why any person would chose a breed that has specificly been bred to fight and kill.

Sure some breeds of dogs bite more than others and most will bite if you step on their tail or they feel threatened, but the difference with dogs bred to fight is that they do not just bite, they kill. When adrenilin is pumped into their blood, they keep fighting untill they kill or they are killed. That is what makes them dangerous, plus the fact they are powerfully built and have very strong jaws. It is all in the breeding.

I have seen footage of people, adults and kids, playing with big cats like lions and they are very gentle with the humans, and bears too,but we are not allowed to keep them in our backyards because they are considered dangerous, no one argues with that, so if a breed of dog is also considered dangerous it is only right that it is banned from being kept as a pet.

I do not agree with king Hazza, the breeds of fighting dogs have been bred that way for many generations and the genes are there, just below the surface and only needs a trigger to set it off.

I think it only a matter of time, and a few more incidents, when more stricter laws will be imposed and all dogs with genes of the fighting breeds banned.

As for a licence to have a dog or certain dogs, hell, some people should have a licence to have kids of their own. Just ask DOCS.

Pity about this title: "Dogs The Wolf in your back yard"

It puts a wrong slant on what a dog truly is.
Besides being men's best friend and specifically bred for the purpose of hunting, protecting livestock and the family unit, there seems to be a notion that breeding dogs with "lock-jaws" can do the job of previous mentioned purposes.
They should be banned as family pets in my humble opinion, as they should not have a job as bone-cruncher's. This breed is a killer with killer instinct including the necessary tools.

Belly, my point is a valid one, even if you can't see it because you're blinded by your fear of appearing bigoted, even though there's no bigotry on offer. It's a common failing of the Left. Lexi had the same problem.

All I'm saying is that people from places like Sudan haven't got a dog-owning cultural background, they don't see dogs as friends and companions on the whole and they have not developed good ways of dealing with them.

The same could be said of many Australians with backgrounds in the inner city or even many suburbs today. It's because of that lack of capacity to deal with dogs that people who choose to own dogs need to be more vigilant.

I still say this incident was avoidable and if the dog had wandered into my yard with my kids in it there would have been no problem. Dogs react, they don't act with malice aforethought and their instinct to bite when excited is very strong. That applies to every dog, but most dogs are capable of sufficient self-control that no bad outcome results. Perhaps a scratch. Only 1 in 100 or less will require any form of treatment other than a bandaid. This is probably also true is Sudan, but dogs there carry rabies, so it's not surprising that people from there are reluctant to take a chance with them.

Anti do me this favor, you and I have been getting on much better.
I see another you here and am impressed, we all ways agreed men/fathers get the wrong end of the stick in Divorce/Children.
Stop calling me left! read my post history! mainstream Labor is not very left.
Now yes your point is true, but it does the dead no good.
It does not transfer responsibility for the event to the victims.
A dog is a wolf, it will pee around its territory, even on my country hat before I caught one.
Sniff another bum, to see what it has eaten its sex and if it needs interest or not.
The circling slow walking thing is about who is the top dog, do we need to find out our are we going to be mates.
You have seen it, dogs owners wash the cute little fur bundle spray it with perfume and get up set when it rolls in the pig pen, to hide its smell from prey.
We can not turn a dog into a teddy bear, live but under control.
Some, pit bulls will never ever be a problem.
Some breeds almost any breed in the wrong hands can be dangerous.
continued.

We see smaller dogs, my foxies and indeed all Terrier breeds are known to be brave.
And do we know why? faced with a big dog going straight on the offensive is their defense.
First thing, maybe the last too they get in.
That dog,the one we talk about, its instinct,its unchangeable instinct,tells it smelling fear says some thing is wrong gets its defense/attack instinct rolling.
Then the child ran.
Do we understand what a wolf would do? by now thinking kill or be killed, that some thing was wrong not sure what it too would charge that child.
Pit Bull/Roty,so many breeds , but if we had a neighbor who had a wild wolf ? we do.
Dogs we are told look and act like owners,well not,but they learn from us.
If I ever got in to a pub brawl on Saturday night out side a pub, once in fact, my dog fought my opponents dog along side.
Can we trust every dog owner? why license guns but not some cowards weapon of choice his/her dog?

Righto Belly, I'll stop calling you Left. Fair do's.

In mentioning the fact that the victim and the adults around her contributed to this incident, I'm simply pointing out that we in Australia now live in a nation in which people with very different backgrounds are part of the landscape. Some of those people are not capable of taking care of themselves in situations which you or I would have notrouble with.

The problem I see with the likely response to this attack is that it will not address the issue of making people better able to deal with a problem, it will simply ban something, pretending that the problem is now fixed.

Sadly, this is the way of our new Australian world, thanks largely to the natural sympathy felt for the victim of such a horrendous event and the enormous power of "victim's groups" acting to increase their reach, although there doesn't seem to be anybody making a living out of "representing the victims of dog attacks" as far as I can tell.

Instead, this will be driven by a political agenda, in which doing the easy thing (banning) is preferred over doing the hard one (education and regulation). which one will provide the better outcome, do you reckon?

The point about nutjobs buying these breeds as "weapons" is not a bad one, but I can assure you that Max has never been trained to bark at Africans, it's entirely his own behaviour, which is the reason for mentioning it. Max is not at all aggressive, yet some people manage to project enough fear on seeing him that he becomes excited. These people, while not intentionally getting the dog worked up, incite him nonetheless. If he was to get carried away and bite them, it would not be his fault, since he is a creature of instincts, although he'd no doubt be held to account. Training people not to be afraid would stop that occurring. That seems much to be preferred to a kneejerk ban.

Thanks Antiseptic, I am quite proud of my defiance of my past, people change.
It was 52 years ago I left communism behind, and about 40 Socialism.
Do not get me wrong, left of center is my home but center today is far from those days.
Once Fox news created the tea party right is very far right.
Ok your point is taken, and true, but.
I looked at dogs that killed,came up with an America site, based on getting rid of pit bulls.
Not posting a link, it is set on one out come, but 55 people died in its I think 2 year period, killed by pit bulls.
One year the average toll was 15, the next it went to 30.
America at first glance proves the bred is dangerous, HOWEVER! it, to me, proves owners, some of them, of pit bulls are dangerous.
Sorry, we are not all well anchored not looking for a Friend, snarling social misfits do own snarling miss fit dogs.
My mate next door, his name is Mack too, is a loverly dog.
But if such a person antisocial misfit, or lock him up the back yard, owner had him?
Control breeding, all dogs, control owners, some breeds even more so, police the laws always.
My closest Friend is a pig hunter, he would never have a problem with his dogs, but can tell horror story's about a few.

If one is unfortunate enough to be attacked by a dog or dogs, how does one defend one's self?

Belly, I take your point about the shift in political positioning. I also understand what you mean about dogs that have been set up to be dangerous, but they're quite rare and they are normally most dangerous to their owners or friends.

Is Mise, unless the dog was completely psychotic, it wouldn't have run over to the kids to attack them, but to play with them. The same applies to nearly all dogs, which either ignore people or seek them out as companions/source of food scraps.

The important thing to remember if a dog is threatening is that it won't do so unless it feels it has a need to. Therefore, it's important to avoid giving it that feeling. Don't look it in the eyes. Don't wave your arms around or make lots of noise. Don't run.

Walk slowly backwards, watching it, but not trying to stare it down. Look away frequently, to the sides rather than down.

If it attacks, kick it or as hard as you possibly can, anywhere, especially in the head. If you knock it down, jump on it hard, knee first. A winded animal can't hurt you. I've done this and it works. Basically, treat it like a pub brawl on steroids, since the dog will keep going while it thinks it has the upper hand, once its started.

The kids in this tragic case would have not been able to do anything once the dog got into an attack frenzy, but they and their mums could have avoided it.

What I forgot to mention is that if you're standing there petrified, there is a greater chance the dog will become aggressive. There's not much that can be done about that if you're scared of dogs, except perhaps some experience of dogs.

It's one of those things you get better at the more you do of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States
This link tells of 327 dog related[killed by]deaths in the USA, over 20 years.
While pit bulls are seen to be worse other breeds kill too.
Here,just in NSW such deaths may well be more per head of population.
Is mise that info is the best but not fool proof.
If a big dog is involved you are fighting for your very life inflicting great pain on it may well not be enough.
Watch one tearing in to a pig still after being gored, go hard eyes throat .
Try to shout not scream panic fires them.
But we should not have to share our streets or our yards with them ever.
It takes years for local government and state, federal too, to do what should take a day.
How many more deaths? you tell me.
In the right hands the right yard ok but who knows who owns one

To answer my own question.
If a dog attacks you, for whatever reason, throw your weak arm (the one that's going to be bitten), across your body with the elbow at right angles and with the lower arm as far forward as your physique allows.
Look the dog in the eyes over your arm.
Most times the dog will fasten onto the extended arm (that's why you advance your weak arm).
Encircle the dog's neck with your strong arm and break its neck.
If the breed has a strong neck then it may be necessary to fall onto your weak arm and add your body's weight to the leverage.

Another method is to grasp the dog's legs when it leaps and pull the legs apart, this either breaks its legs or fractures the rib cage; either way it's out of action; however this method leaves one open to bites.

Preferable is to stab it when it leaps.
The weak arm can be used as gripping the arm leaves the dog open to a disembowelling cut.

A pistol would be best of all especially where there is more than one dog.

The humble walking stick is handy as well.
If the dog can be induced to attack the end of the stick then a strong thrust via the throat will kill it or render it unfit to continue.

However if you feel threatened by dogs don't carry ANYTHING with the intention of protecting yourself as that is illegal.

I should actually point out that I myself have actually been mauled by a dog when I was a child- and of all breeds, by a blue heeler.

In contrast to all of the family pitbulls, bull terriers, great danes, rottweilers, german shepherds, and dobermans I've encountered have jumped on me to lick my face, were a much safer experience.
Even when confronted by other aggressive dogs, they generally ignored them outright unless they were actually bitten by the other dogs.

The only other dog I know that ever attacked a child was a larger breed of a Japanese hunting dog- unlike its sibling who made no attempt and was incredibly passive.

It seems very much that the 'dangerous breed' issue is nothing but an excuse for bad owners to point the finger away from themselves; wanting to minimize threats to public safety EXCEPT when their own preferred breeds come under the spotlight (or of course, the fear that if their own aggressive animal goes to attack another dog, the other dog might actually pose a threat when trying to protect itself).

I might add that a dog's mouth is very vunerable; pressure on its tongue and lower jaw will stop it from biting.
However the thumb or fingers may be severed if one is not very, very fast.

If in a fight with a dog, and that's what it should be if one is attacked, then gripping the lower jaw and the upper and pulling them apart will dislocate the lower jaw and render the dog defenceless.

All good advice, Is Mise, but the best thing is to simply not get the thing going. If you have got it going, make whatever you do count as much as you can, because the dog will surely be deadly serious once it starts.

As I said earlier, dogs don't simply attack with no reason. If people aren't used to dogs they can provoke them into an attack completely unwittingly, making it appear to them to be unprovoked.

That was my point in regard to education.

I don't know how many people here, have been bitten truly, but in the animal kingdom, you should shout as load with NO fear as you can, and generally that should get you out of trouble....in the thoughts of education. As soon as you smell of fear, it knows, and will keep coming.

The wolf as belly has said well in all, is very true.....And sometimes some will be in that situation....and there was a time, where we too were hungry for blood....its EVOLUTION...and that's a fact.

The Question on pit bulls is still the owner's responablity, and if one cant control it, you will pay the price.

LEAP

we don't need pit bulls & people who think they need one.

I am still very strong, once when both younger and extremely strong I fought a bull terrier.
To rescue my blue cattle bitch from its jaws.
Let us not kid our selves.
The shout, firm stance, no eye contact is best, if anything can help, and that is if.
I had a draw with that fight.
grabbed the back legs split them apart held both it and my poor girl blue up in the air.
Seemed like hours, the owner of the bully [a woman] took to shouting at it and thumping it.
We got my dog, attacked on its own veranda by the neighbors dog it was alright.
Later the bully was disposed of, after biting its owners partner, they got a pit bull!
It had a go at me,let run free, every day, until I took the owner on away from home and it stopped.
Fight no dog unless you must but fellas, lets stop the silly stuff just do this for me,keep the pit bull in the back ground, goggle dog related deaths in Australia/New Zealand.
Do not blame only the dog, it always runs second to its owner but tell me? why should any human die that way?
PS
tragic event killed that loverly lady,their dogs? both picked to guard a crop we never knew about till the morning of her death.

Many posts here are defending dogs, and the right to own them.
It should be as clear as a full moon on a clear night I am blaming owners.
And questioning is every owner of a Savage dog fit to own it.
As every breed, yes every domestic dog breed can be traced back to its beginning the Wolf.
It is clear to me we changed the breed for many reasons, to herd cattle or sheep,Australian Kelpies is ours.
Just think what we let happen in dog fighting circles or just let them breed with any thing homes.
Border Colly, cuddly little squeakers so some could have a would be child[no mater the harm to the resulting breed].
We must ask what dogs kill, how many, why did they kill,why was that breed owned and by who.
I just know, no human never should be killed by a dog ever, no human should own a dog as a weapon or extension to his/her ego.
Like almost every thing, if pet owners do not take control in this matter government will,forced by our lack of responsibility.

As Belly said,
"Like almost every thing, if pet owners do not take control in this matter government will,forced by our lack of responsibility"
and that means putting the matter into the hands of opportunists who will decide in a manner that they perceive will do the most to win votes not that which will have the best outcome.

Having said that, be it noted that we are not allowed to keep the big cats as pets so to there ought to be some restrictions on keeping animals that are dangerous.

Certainly dogs do not attack unless they perceive a threat but the important thing is to know their level of perception.

There has been advice to not look an aggressive dog in the eye, it has been my experience that looking an aggressive dog in the eye will, if one stares hard enough, often lower the aggression and 'bring the dog to heel'.
Another piece of advice, never kick at a dog, the dog is faster than most of us, and can come in under the leg thus gaining an advantage, in a fight with a dog keep both feet firmly on the ground, one needs both feet to manoeuvre.

One technique, which I DO NOT recommend is to stare the dog in the eye, give a low pitched growl, drop on all fours and still growling, aggressively advance.
The dog will usually get such a surprise that he/she will back off, however be prepared for a fight if it doesn't.

I've found the last thing to do with a dog that's aggressive is to try to stare it dowm. Let it know you're watching, but don't offer e threat unless you can back it up.

The reason for suggesting a kick was simple: it gives the dog pause and you time to move away. The dog will instinctively dodge the kick.

The other ideas are well and good for a fit person in good physical nick who is able to be properly aggressive. For most people they'd just result in a mauling.

The growling is very good. I've always used a low guttural growl to let my dogs know they're in trouble and it works very, very effectively. The secret is to make it very deep and very guttural, like a dog growling from the back of its thraot. The dog will either run away or attack if it feels confident.

One other thing to note is that dogs adopt a stiff-legged, high-tailed posture if they feel dominant and in charge, whereas they keep the tail low but not right down and have a much more "slinky" posture if they're feeling threatened or aggressive. Of course, in that case the hackles will also be raised.

The first type of behaviour will respond to a submissive posture (get down low, use a high-pitched voice) by relaxing, while it would respond to an attempt to be dominant with an attack, quite likely.

The latter case would be the time to use a growl/dominance approach.

It's not hard - dogs communicate very well, it's just a matter of learning what they're trying to say.

I can mostly tell what a dog is saying, the two wrestling under my feet now are telling me to turn off the PC.
Staring at a truly dangerous dog is unwise I look at a place above its eyes and shout while advancing a step.
But still, one day that could be my last act.
In truth most dogs like me and are no threat.
I can not find links to a child's death in this state.
Council knew the dogs had been reported but never acted, council I think lost a court case.
An elderly lady very badly hurt comes to mind.
It is true, without doubt, some breeds will be banned or tightly controlled, because more deaths are coming.

Dear Belly,
What a tragedy this dog attack was, poor people coming to start a decent life in the land of opportunities. I was understanding that certain breeds of dog are forbidden to be kept, must be wrong I guess.
Our two dogs (smaller breeds, house dogs) are our best friends, I reckon that dogs are like kids, bring them up in a loving environment and they will do no harm. (I still prefer my pets to some of the dubious people I have met in my life.).
Enjoy your evening with your furry friend(s).
NSB

Belly:

...Glad to see you have not left the scene: Don’t take anything said here on OLO too seriously. But on with the subject; I agree with your precept of not taking your eyes off the dog that wants to advance. There is a truism I have oft proved in the past, IE; never take your eyes off a shark, and never look a crocodile in the eyes: Two fundamentals of self-preservation in the wild!

Just came across this, published by Kidsafe Qld.

http://www.gtp.com.au/kidsafeqld/inewsfiles/inews.2773.1.pdf

It says:
"Safety Tips
These are some tips to reduce the chances of a
child in your care being bitten or injured by a dog:
- Always ask permission from the owner before
slowly approaching an unfamiliar dog.
- Curl your fingers and allow the dog to sniff the
back of your hand
-Stroke the dog gently on the chest, shoulder or
under the chin
- Avoid approaching dogs that are sleeping or
eating
- Stand still like a fence post if approached by a
strange dog and don’t squeal or jump
- Avoid eye contact with the dog by looking at
your own feet
- Don’t disturb a dog that is sleeping, eating, or
caring for puppies"

Excellent advice and pretty much exactly what I've taught my kids.

Diver Dan thanks, in truth it is my weakness that lets me take the hook down in my gut.
And react worse than the fisher man by leaving in a sulk.
All good stuff Anti and it is worth taking note.
I also, totally, understand the part fear and strangeness, both of the dog in this case and the people for the dog.
But just how did this dog leave its yard,why did it live in suburbia.
We can not speculate on what conditions existed between dogs owner and the victims.
But dog owners understand, that matters.
Here in my home,2002 I bought and moved in.
A neighbor and I fell out, its ok now, he turned his dog, a Kelpies into a hate machine.
Every time it saw me it went for me mad as a hater.
Took my wheely bin for a walk, mattock handle in side.
Dog, left fast,owner too, dog found new home owner new dog, if I had been defenseless Child.
Or eighty years old.
My mates, my dogs ever bite any one they go to doggy heaven.
Only way I want them to defend me is by letting me know I have visitors before they lick them to death.
PS, never been game to take a bone from them.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/woman-77-in-latest-dog-attack-20110823-1j824.html
It seems only yesterday that this was the breed Australians feared the most.
Some how we took our freedom to import new breeds[to Australia they are new] and in the hands of some the problem grew.
We need to put our selves in the place of this lady in her back yard.
Maybe the dogs came from her home? not sure.
But it looks clear we will see government intervention.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t750063-5/
In looking for links about dog related deaths I found this,an open Cess pit!
But no better evidence ever existed some owners of such dogs are not only unfit to own them, but probably unfit to walk among us.
Other links pointed to the area, an allegation, in the death of this 4 year old.
Is a Ferrel city, saying such dogs are needed for defense.
Well, I have come to a conclusion we just can not be trusted to fix this our selves.
We will not have the opportunity, because we do little control will be and seems to be the best out come will be forced on us.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/boy-attacked-by-rottweiler-in-sydney-20110831-1jkig.html
Makes about 20 from the start of the thread.
And almost every one by the dog next door or just up the road.
Kid may well have taunted the dog, it happens.
But my prediction is coming true.
Because some dogs have bad owners soon good dogs and owners will suffer.