*you have already suggested several times that the use of renewable energy could generate losses for anybody who even tries to think about it*

No Rob, my suggestion is that business investment has to be based
on sound fundamentals and it has to be profitable, unlike you beaut
Govt expenditure. You keep turning the corporatate debate into
them and us. Fact is that nearly all Australians have super fund
investments totalling 1.3 trillion $, which is roughly the value
of the ASX. Tax big companies, you are in fact taking money
out of the back pocket of every Australian, to put it somewhere
else. So its not them and us, we are all in it together. If
companies arn't doing well, neither are average Australians.

*It is specifically nonsensical to say that Europe experiences the current economic problems due to a well developed renewable energy sector there.*

That is seemingly your strawman argument and was not my claim.
My claim was that just because Europe does something, does not mean
that it is a good idea if we follow. Their political judgements
hardly have a great record, as we all can see.

*The potential loosers would not be mum and dad investors / shareholders as you keep saying,*

Yes they would. As I have shown you, they largely own corporations
through their super. I also showed you that Australian farmers and
other small businesses who export, would be big losers.

Australians arn't just talking. Various projects are going ahead.
PV cells are being installed, although some under false ponzi
type schemes of financing. Lots could be done, like installing
solar hot water on the 70% of households who don't yet use them.
Get people to buy LED rather then plasma sets. What about somebody
finally inventing an efficient solar air conditioner?

I see alot of potential for algae, they are efficient converters and
need lots of CO2 to grow. Various companies are investing in those,
as well as geo thermal, wind farms, etc.

But of course every con man with an idea will also be queueing up
to take advantage of any Govt lollies dished out for what seemed
like a good idea at the time. Just rushing in to dish out the lollies, will only land up with more insulation rorts etc

"if companies aren't doing well, neither are average Australian". This is a pure blackmail, Yabby.

When they stuff up here, they will relocate overseas. Also, when our natural resources have been exhausted and consumers impoverished, you will not see the multinationals here. However, AVERAGE AUSTRALIAN will stay. For them, we need a government policy based on sustainability and triple bottom line; for current and future generations; global and local.

If we broadly follow your suggestion, we do not need government with their policies and taxes at all. Is this the direction you are heading ? Why democracy ? Plutonomy is the way to go ! AVERAGE AUSTRALIAN will play in the crumbles under the table of the rich, but for how long ?

*AVERAGE AUSTRALIAN will play in the crumbles under the table of the rich, but for how long ?*

Rob, I remind you how Australia became one of the richest countries
on the planet, with some of the highest wages, cushiest work conditions,
biggest houses and the luxury of being the world's biggest
gamblers. Foreign investment. There are good reasons why companies
came here and not Africa, where people continue to starve and live
in poverty.

Now you seem to think that we should do away with intergrity,
reliability, change the rules and rob those who volunteer to take
a risk. Why would they bother to stay here?

In any kind of comparative terms, average Australians are doing
very well, thank you very much.

As to our minerals, nobody actually will know what is there until
people go out and drill, which over large areas has never happened,
because this is such a huge country. We've only just taken what
is on top. In the 1960s, people were not even aware that those
mountains in the Pilbara were solid iron ore. People were unaware
of the huge offshore gas reserves, until companies took a risk
and invested up to 25 million a hole, to find out.

I remind you that miners already pay huge amounts of tax and everyone
including you benefit. You are also free to save a few pennies and
buy a few shares in them if you wish. 40% of Australians already
own shares directly, the rest indirectly through their super funds.

Hardly crumbs.

Yabby, I agree. White Australians are doing very well (Aborigines are probably less lucky and I am not sure whether they are equally excited about mining on their land so do farmers - as Ammonite has rightly noticed.) However, the trick is to stay that way. Gambling with our future does not seem a good idea to me.

Australians have a very high carbon footprint and our contribution to global warming per capita is far greater than Europeans and definitely Africans have. (In this context, I note that it is particularly unfair to compare Australia to Africa with its history of colonialism, apartheid, military conflicts and natural disasters.)

The climate changes will particularly affect Australia based on the best scientific guess. We will be facing extreme bushfires, desertification and contineous El Ninjo weather pattern. (At that time we might be resembling Africa a little bit ?) I still do not understand how this could be ignored. Are we still calling Australia home ? Or it is rather a casino ?

Rob Canoe

I agree we are gambling with our future. Economic failure will definitely occur if we do not adapt to change. Any business person knows (or should know) this basic premise. Investors will go where the money is to be made, the more astute will go for renewables, others will cling to non-renewable resources and business as usual. We are well aware of what happened to the whaling industry when mining for oil became a better proposition and the same will occur as sustainable sources of power advance. Hopefully, the latter types will catch on BEFORE we run out of fossil fuels, however, reading many of the articles and posts on OLO one could be forgiven for thinking that business-as-usual will carry the day.

While I am not in full agreement with everything on the following website, there is much to learn by rethinking how we conduct business, I hope this link is of interest to you (and you Yabby - you're never too old to learn something new).

http://ineteconomics.org/net/video/playlist/conference/bretton-woods/O