That sounds right Morgan,You have to be fluent in something to use it to best advantage.

The main problem is you are studding the wrong side of the argument. Typical lefty ploy, accuse others of the tactics you have been using for years.

The reason warmers are now so hated is a response to violated trust. The tens of thousands of graduates, even some of us who had the math to check for ourselves, trusted our old schools to be telling us the truth.

Now we find we have been lied to, & when the fools still try to keep the con going, we really get angry, at being taken for fools.

This is followed by Julia's stupidity. I saw one of those gold plated adds of hers tonight. Such simplistic stuff is going to be totally counter productive. Most will just get annoyed, not fooled.

The best way for Julia to improve her image would be to disappear for a year or so. Every time most of us see or hear her, it simply stokes the fire of disgust.

Warmest academics should follow the same advice. Every venture into print by one of you just increases our disgust for you as well.

@ Hasbeen:

I guess you're not interested in turning down the hate rhetoric, eh? I think that ultimately that it will backfire on you, because most Australians are sick of the hate, and are probably getting a bit uncomfortable about the degree of sheer nastiness that's developed in your spin.

My reading is that as many haters and willfully ignorant types as there in the electorate have already heard Abbott's litany of disinformation and hate, so that its continuation is now starting to drive voters away - so on reflection, I now tend to think you should go for it. Think of it this way, at this stage of the debate, every time one of you claims publicly that the Earth is cooling, that just sends one of your voters to Labor or the Greens.

Thanks mate!

http://www.smh.com.au/national/gillard-down-for-count-20110717-1hkak.html

I see that Juliar is not getting any traction. I think that most Labor MPs must be seeing this as a lost cause. I wonder when she will get the chop.

My feeling is that this could end up as the death of both Greens and ALP for some years. I tend to agree that some form of action on greenhouse gas abatement is necessary, but the current proposal is nothing more than a new type of CFD created at considerable taxpayer cost at a time when the economy is already in grave trouble.

As I said elsewhere, current business conditions haven't been seen since the Keating "recession we had to have" and interest rates were at 17%, with social welfare spending at 30% or so of revenue. Today interest rates are at just 7% and social welfare spending, mostly on handout schemes or social constructionalist measures, such as maternity leave ahs blown out to around 45% of revenue.

The Keating recession was deliberately induced to curb the runaway inflation that was threatening and it had a definite and foreseeable lifespan. It was designed to encourage people to stop spending on lifestyle and the damage to the terms of trade that spending created. There was enough spare fat in most people's budget that they could absorb the hit of huge rates, although some did go under because they were over-extended.

Today, there appears to be no fat whatever, even despite the massive level of handouts. Interst rates are at historically low levels and despite that, a lot of people with ordinary mortgages are finding it very difficult to make ends meet. It's got to the point that the PM can say with a straight face "I understand what a struggle it is for people on $170,000 a year living in Western Sydney."

The really sad aspect of this is that Abbott, who should be unelectable, will inherit a gift from the greens/ALP debacle and that will be the end of any serious effort to do anything about emissions, which we probably all agree is something that needs to be done at some point.

What a great legacy for Gillard.

A few years from now we may all wonder what all the fuss was about -
especially after an increase in job, renewables, and so forth. As one experts proclaimed - this is only the first step, and it may not be perfect, but to do nothing is even worse.

I agree with Morganzola - let's cut this vitriol amongst ourselves.
It's only a discussion right? How has it disintegrated to such disrespect? Voters are being turned off by it.

Lexi

>> It's only a discussion right? How has it disintegrated to such disrespect? Voters are being turned off by it. <<

It sure diminishes the number of contributions many posters (myself included) are prepared to make to OLO.

I don't recall Prime Ministers being heckled so viciously to their face as is happening to Julia Gillard - protests yes, and I am all for peaceful protest (having participated in many) but this continuation of calling Gillard "Juliar" to her face is as well as online indicates a degeneration of the expression of opinion into something darker and nastier.

All politicians tell lies, from the beginning of history. Julia Gillard has, like many leaders before her, had to compromise. In this case it is a compromise which will help to usher in the transition from fossil fuel based energy sources to sustainable energy sources.

I can think of far worse outright lies that had no basis in governance for the future, such as "children overboard" and SIEV X where people died due to no more justification than government ideology of the day.