Lexi,

"Their mess" is our mess. Their pollution production emanates from our standard of living. I suppose it's a chicken or egg proposition. Who among us is going to take a step back consumption-wise.
As a nation, we aren't likely to sacrifice growth as our mantra and, without industry fueled by low-polluting renewables and urban design alternatives, all the taxes in the world (accompanied by compensation) aren't going to change anything unless we cut our consumption and lower our standard of living.

Ludwig,
I am reading Richard Heinberg's The End of Growth at present.
We are seeing here in Australia the early effects of growth limitation.

Other countries are already hard up against the limits.
Symptoms of this can be seen in the European problems where growth
is zero or negative, except in Germany.

The US recovery was expected to become growth but was short lived
because it was actually recovery and just getting back almost to
where it started.

Every immigrant that arrives here will reduce the product available to
each of us to some extent. As time goes on each immigrant will reduce
more and more product available to those already here.
When growth reaches zero then each immigrant will reduce the cake by
one portion.
We are just about the point where increased population will not
increase GDP.
A little further on and GDP will decrease each year.

Anyone advocating any immigration at all implies a lowering standard
of living. We need to take steps to let our population fall a little
or at least hold it steady.

On Friday I met a coalition MHR I know and I spoke to him about this
matter and its relation to peak oil.
His response was that something will turn up.
The market will respond and sort out these problems.
I asked him why world wide peak oil is a non subject to politicians
His response was that he knew about it but something will turn up.
The market will respond and sort out these problems.

This I think is the attitude of almost all politicians.
That being so we are in big trouble.

The CO2 tax will I believe make things worse as it will force
expenditure into areas that are contrary to what is required.

Dear Poirot,

I'll keep repeating - we have to start somewhere. Tony Abbott and the business lobby have had a field day, running a well-orchestrated fear campaign that has convinced many voters that the carbon tax will be bad for the economy. In fact, the level of carbon pricing the Government is adopting will have almost no long-term impact on the economy. Australia already has a number of carbon taxes. Top of the list are petrol and diesel excises, which together raked in $13.2 billion in 2010-11, accordin to the Budget papers. There's also the Petroleum Resource Rent Tax, which leaves a royalty on oil and gas extraction in Australian federal waters, responsible this year for $940 million.

In other words, carbon-based taxes are already bringing in more than the approx.$11.5 billion that Ross Garnaut has estimated a $26/tonne carbon tax will levy in its first year. Which rather puts some of the over-heated rhetoric about the destructive impact of a carbon tax into
perspective.

Unless big energy companies like the vastly polluting brown coal power plants of the Latrobe Valley have a cap on pulltion and a price on carbon they will have no incentive to look for alternatives or towards renewables, they will have no reason to stop polluting and we will surely struggle to achieve a 5% reduction in carbon pollution by 2020.

Dear grahamy,

Setting aside the effectiveness of the package I'm going to have to say if the Prime Minister manages to pull this off then she will certainly go up in my estimation of her which admittedly up till now has been fairly low.

This issue has cost the job of a number of party leaders.

Tony Abbott and the Opposition have run a stirling and very effective 'No' campaign. 

It has also attracted considerable hostility from some very cashed up interest groups, plus some very anti news media (anybody read the Sun-herald today) and some ferocious rightwing commentary.

And if wasn't enough some very powerful unions have been doing a pitbull number on her flank.

If this comes off with all the above against her and without a majority in either house of parliament then I am going to tip the hat.

I am getting a sense of a change in mood. Two acquaintances have said to me in the last 24 hours that people need to back off her a little, and one was a rusted on Liberal. Abbott will need to watch overplaying this.

http://www.essentialmedia.com.au/essential-report/

It would appear that as the details of the tax were being leaked out that the public has largely already decided, and support for the carbon tax has fallen a further 3% and opposition has risen by 4% in the last few weeks.

Support for Juliar has plummeted to an all time low of 29%, and Tony Abbott is pulling further ahead as preferred prime minister. To top this off support for labor is further depressed, and the green's support is dwindling.

With industry almost universally slating this as bad policy, and Abbott blitzing the typical labor strong holds, the question is whether Juliar will survive the stress test of the next 5 weeks. I have no doubt that whilst the labor caucus is "strongly" behind Juliar in her gamble, there is a stress point at which they will pull the pin and try and regroup without either the tax or the shrew.

SM,

Don't be fooled by polls - they're only as good as the people surveyed and at the time they were surveyed. Things change in a flash.
Especially in politics. Did you see Mr Abbott on TV last night.
There was no implosion and he seemed to struggle to articulate anything more than his usual slogans. In contrast the PM looked surprisingly perky yesterday. Still she can only take it one step at a time. I'm sure that she will lock in behind the policy and explain it to doubting voters in terms that they will understand. I'm sure that she will be in a competitive position by the time the 2013 election rolls around. Intelligent observers of federal politics like Fairfax Laura Tingle seemed to have sniffed a change in the wind. Abbott's fixation on media stunts (like the ill-fated proposal to hold a carbon-tax plebiscite) and his breathtakingly threadbare policy platforms have started to make even enthusiastic Abbott supporters uncomfortable.