lest we forget that allready the shredding machines
are running non stop...the crime scene will soon[tomorow be sterilised]

its time for the govt [or police]..
to go in and seize the crime scene
to seize the assets..get the phone records..
get every email backed up and into evidence

in short we shall see in time
how much we should have seen done

yet how sloppy the little that was done
was in-deed done..

whats the betting against a neat fire?
acidentially getting rid of the proof*

Dear Ammonite,

I will be very surprised if serious charges are laid against anyone in the "corporate world." Did you see the film "Inside Job" on the global financial crisis? No charges have to date been laid.

The crimes committed by high-status people range from tax evasion, toxic pollution, copyright infringement, stock manipulation, price fixing, corruption of public officials, embezzlement, and fraud. Much of this crime takes place in the context of corporate activities. Even though individual corporate officers are involved in these offenses, fines and other sanctions are often directed instead at the corporation itself, for a corporation is, for most legal purposes, a "person." Additionally, many white-collar offenses escape prosecution because they're dealt with through regulatory agencies (such as the Securities and Exchange Commission, which scrutinizes the stock market) rather than through the criminal courts. It will be interesting to see what happens in this case.

White-collar crime and corporate crime is generally regarded with more tolerance than other forms of crime, yet according to news reports its economic impact is much greater. The US department of Justice estimated a few years ago that this type of crime costs billions a year - about eighteen times the cost of street crime.

The fact that that this type of crime is so prevalent even at the highest levels of society, raises serious doubts about traditional notions of criminals and crime. It may well be that "poverty breeds crime," by giving low-status people an incentive to steal and rob, but it seems that greed can just as easily breed crime in high-status people as well. It is interesting that white-collar crimes are hardly mentioned in statistical reports on crime. The inclusion of statistics on these crimes would substantially alter our picture of the "typical" criminal.

Pelican

Many thanks for your post.

You raised the issue of government. Apart from open revolt by citizenry, the only gatekeeper is the government, which has had its powers limited in favour of so-called free trade, small government and other neo-capitalist buzz-words.

It is government which subsidises many business interests from mining to genetic engineering. I am for a government with the cojones to pull the 'welfare' when industries abuse the support they are given. De-regulation has proven to be a complete failure, with News Corp being the latest example.

We will run short of mineral resources, we are continuing to pollute, we are failing to protest adequately at the ballot box. It is for strong vested interests that small parties like the Greens are demonised by media monopolies such as Murdoch to the point where such parties are still seen as single issue.

However, only 15 years ago none of us could be airing our thoughts like this - will the internet remain as free as it is now, or will it be neutered like other forms of media? Also we still have community radio broadcasts, which is another way to get the news behind the news - and radio is only younger than the print media. I do not see its demise any time soon as I do print. And if we do have to pay for news online as the trend indicates, I won't be spending my dollars on propaganda.

If we can retain the freedom of speech across the globe through the internet, radio and community action (boycotting the Monsantos, the BP's) we have a chance. That and the fact that to survive the human race is going to have to clean up its act - maybe not in my life-time, but we are going to have to find a balance between competition, access by all to food and shelter and responsible government.

Spindoc

You are free to start a topic on semantics any time.

Lexi

Your point:

>> White-collar crime and corporate crime is generally regarded with more tolerance than other forms of crime, yet according to news reports its economic impact is much greater. The US department of Justice estimated a few years ago that this type of crime costs billions a year - about eighteen times the cost of street crime. <<

This type of crime ruins more lives in less time than all other crime combined, except perhaps for war - I have no data for that. Perhaps someone else can find figures for this.

The following is an excerpt from an article on white collar crime:

Crimes of the powerful are not generally dealt with by local police agencies. To the extent they are dealt with at all, there are a variety of agencies responsible. These agencies are typically more distant from average citizens than local police, and are often unknown to those who might want to file complaints. They may not be as responsive, thus discouraging complaints. And those victimized by crimes of the powerful often do not even know it - shoddy products that result in injury or death, sophisticated banking scams, price-fixing, etc. are not the sort of thing the average person is likely to even notice, much less be able to pinpoint responsibility for."

Cont'd

Cont'd

"That responsibility is sometimes murky even where violations of law are clear. Additionally in such cases, because there is no central, well-known place to contact - as is the case for street crimes - it is difficult to even find the right place to make a complaint. Assuming the right place is found, funding is often inadequate to vigorously investigate and prosecute if needed. Investigation and prosecution for these crimes can be extremely difficult, requiring specialized knowledge, access where access is typically denied, and the determination to face all that powerful adversaries can bring against such efforts. Due to a climate nurtured by the powerful that is protective of their interests, the will to prosecute is often absent or weak. This climate makes many reluctant to assign responsibility to the powerful; a reluctance that rarely exists for street crimes.

In some cases it is known that prosecutors are reluctant to go after local businesses that have committed crimes due to concerns about the local economy.

Vigorous prosecution may bankrupt a business, or induce it to leave an area, which means loss of jobs and taxes. Prosecutors generally avoid seeking criminal penalties or harsh sanctions, and instead pursue "conciliatory and restorative interventions". Judges tend to avoid prison time, or to minimize it. Unlike with most street crime, they often note that such defendants' damage to reputation is a punishment itself, and consider that as a mitigating factor.

More bluntly, "Policy makers and state managers understand they are in no position to tell business what to do. Industry is mobile, but regulatory regimes are not."

http://richa.dod.net/crime/thepowerful.htm

Ammonite I return to answer your comment to me.
Yes I get testy say things that are unpopular often .
But here in OLO we have often got rough during debate, not usually before it.
I wish to say to OUG, who asked me to forgive him for some comments he made and explained after.
He said he, totally,disagreed with me, but was not having a shot at me, MATE OUG understand, I care more for your rights to be your self say what you want and not to, is to say only some speech is free.
Ammonite, I am perplexed by your reactions to me, have zero ego problems, put again in print some thing that will make some laugh at me.
I always did the reading/research, but until one under God took the trouble to show me I could not even cut and paste.
Back to our difficulty's, I STILL can see no rudeness in my posts to you in the Myna bird thread, or in fact this one, I did not like School, you remind me why I refused to settle and learn, a teacher was constantly, in every matter talking down to me.
I wish you and your thread well, think it is best I stay away.
But will read, this subject is historic, a quick look at the Murdock's past and present is informative cheers