How to begin? I was for a short time a very Young Communist.
It always was the promise for the very hungry and marginalized.
It was is and always will be a tool to enslave people.
Socialism had true promise, it died in the hands of great numbers who used its name but not its foundations.
Give some thought to this.
Our country is , in part Socialist, in my view as much as we will ever see of Socialism, of should want to see.
I think I am on solid ground here, very few here had my hungry childhood my foundation for my beliefs.
It was not socialism, communism or any ism that came with me to this place.
I am solidly union welded on Labor, but it was my own hard work within those two things and Capitalism that fed me and paid for my home.
Morgonzola,I make No claim to your education , not to your wealth,but I challenge both you and SOG to look at my views from my eyes.
I lived every day of the ALPs exile.
I having come to understand my youthful groups kept my party on the wrong side of the house longed for change.
1972 till 1975 left me exhausted.
We changed so much, did so well, and too so bad.
I do not want to but am reliving it now,comic book self interest and assisted by my party AND ITS seeds, we are living in 1975 again.
more.

I within my movements am always in the excrement only the depth changes.
I was reminded of this yesterday on questioning a Union branch leaders parentage, so be it.
In saying these truths,I underline warts and all my ALP is better than ANY conservative.
ALP is infested with fools,branches are marginalized and *STARS* who are not even party members installed.howyagoing Mr pink bats?
While my 41 years of front line service was unrewarded as a result of my combative fight with a BULLYING boss, Unions Failures are rewarded with a seat in federal Parliament.
And they fail there too.
SOLIDARITY! a wonderful word? no a lie any attempt to install the best is countered with the lie SOLIDARITY.
Any concern that is activly farming the most popular/mates/another vote in caucus for themselves betrays the movement.
We have our fleas we have worms we need desperately to change.
And we will, not enough, not soon but from within the branches we will force change an end to self interest.
And an end to members looking for better in such as the greens, love me,loath me,only the middle ground in Australia grows governments.
Last, my proposal will still see independents win seats.
Rob Oakshot and Windsor won by massive first preferences in more than one election.
They did not win as conservatives and yesterdays SLANDERS from that silly man against them tells me my party's flees are well matched by the other sides grubs.

@ Belly:

It's becoming increasingly obvious that you just want to use this thread as a vehicle from which to slag off the Greens, rather than to debate Federal elections and preferences. Several people have tried to help you overcome errors in your understanding of our current voting system, but you arrogantly dismiss them. For example, you still seem to think that 'one vote, one value' means the same thing as 'first past the post' in voting.

It's not a question of education or lack thereof. I have never sought to get any mileage from the fact that you obviously didn't go too far at school - indeed, I have often admired you for overcoming your disadvantage. However, when it comes to the Greens your mind is worse than narrow. Rather, it is open to every lie, half-truth and negative misrepresentation that you can glean from the tabloid media and the far right of Labor, which you use to invent your version of Greens policies and philosophy.

Unfortunately, it seems to me that Labor is in its death throes, at least as a political party with a coherent philosophy and set of policies to enact them, and the ability and mandate to govern in its own right. The once-great ALP is destined, like the Liberals, to become a party that can only govern in coalition, under our current system.

I've mostly enjoyed debating with you, Belly, but lately it seems that a quite nasty tone has entered your posts, which are lately little more than ignorant tirades at the Greens and no consideration at all that you may not understand some things perfectly well. I might engage with you again if the Belly of old makes a reappearance, but frankly at the moment it's a waste of time and effort. Shame, really.

Morganzola:>> I've mostly enjoyed debating with you, Belly, but lately it seems that a quite nasty tone has entered your posts, which are lately little more than ignorant tirades at the Greens and no consideration at all that you may not understand some things perfectly well.<<

Morgan I seems that I have been "extremely nasty" to Belly, if your yardstick of Bellys response to you brings a "quite nasty" ranking. Morgan you are employing the passive aggressive tactic of questioning the tone of the delivery rather than the message itself.

As I said to Belly and yourself there are global agendas in play and our politicians (both sides) are not putting the interests of the Australian Commonwealth first, we are collateral to the big picture, a picture that they do not allow us to see, we would not understand as "they" understand, we are just dumb plebs.

son of a...quote...""Morgan I seems that I have been "extremely nasty" to Belly,..if your yardstick of Bellys response to you brings a "quite nasty" ranking...""

ie the quote..""Morganzola:>>I've mostly enjoyed debating with you, Belly,but lately it seems that a quite nasty tone..has entered your posts,..which are lately little more than ignorant tirades at the Greens and no consideration at all..that you may not understand some things perfectly well.<<""

i sort of had the same felings of late
just as a decided to say sorry 4 times

but back to sonof..quote..""Morgan you are employing the passive aggressive tactic..of questioning the tone of the delivery rather than the message itself.

which is egsactly how i felt when mr bell said this...""OUG what you are saying..would be shared by about one tenth of one percent of voters.""..ok give me a link..!

belly..""I am more than pleased with
that,the world you lay claim to never existed,
you have of late put your name...to things so weird..it stunned.""

well belly..just because you dont know
dont mean it cant be so[im not lying to you belly]

but lets let son of a quote..""As I said to Belly..and yourself
there are global agendas in play ..nd our politicians..(both sides) are not putting the interests of the Australian Commonwealth first,""

this is true
phycopaths dont like hearing the insanity
of the things..they clearly do

""we are collateral to the big picture,
a picture that they do not allow us to see,
we would not understand as "they" understand,

we are just dumb plebs.""

thats why i COULDNT BE BOTHERD
trying to explain more to you mr bell

any other time i would have asked
LIKE WHAT MR BELL?

please explain...
[i for one know how ignorant i can be]

if you really cared mr bell...you would specificly say what...

quote...""you have of late put your name...
to things so weird..it stunned.""

just cause you dont get it
dont mean its not true*

if you didnt...'get it'
im only too happy to give proof
you belly are one i know..who really does read
thats why when i read what you said..mate that hurt

demand proof
but dont generalise..wierdness...
others will believe you...or accept what you say

just like you swallow the tripe
from the morning papers as lol...'true'
as in gosple...[when its gossip]..

pap for the mmmmm-asses
spin so the blue collar slob..knows his station

work till you drop
income tax isnt wage tax..*

but the blue slobs..and greenie ratters
and not even the labratters and the blueblood libe-rat/chic

but are too sold on delusions
to ask me for proof

mate just cause you dont get it
dont mean i stop trying to explain
those who try to read...find i replied and explained stuff as i go

[unless i was suspended from posting]
a thing that won many debates..for those
who thought i was just too wierd..to be allowed to be heard

thier loss mate