http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/greens-will-supersede-alp-bob-brown/story-fn59niix-1226085967764

With the ALP relying on the greens preferences and support to cling to power, Bob Brown is claiming responsibility for all Juliar's new policies, and my understanding is ramping up the cost of the new carbon tax to the point where it will ruin Labor's chances in 2013.

Already the Greens have 1/2 Labor's first preference votes, and look to over take in 5 to 10 years.

Life is better when the grass is greener.
Tony Abbott would be delirious if the Greens in the Senate
would support the Opposition policies. Unfortunately, they're
not economical or practical for the long term and few
believe in them.

The Greens really fouled up the last time when the ETS reached
the Senate. If they continue to show tantrums this time around
their future is guaranteed for the dust bin.

I feel quite confident that in due course
the carbon tax which will evolve into the ETS will
pass in the Senate.
No matter what the Opposition expounds on the
topic has gone beyond the patience of most voters.

It appears that the Greens have reached the peak
of their achievement and from now on
unless they maintain a sensible working relationship with the government, their future will be limited.

Interesting that their opponents are always saying that the Greens have peaked, when they're only just starting to get going. A few more years and a few more elections will see more Greens in Parliament and greater maturity in those that are there now.

I read an interesting article in today's 'Age' that speculated whether we've actually seen the last majority Labor government, given the trends in the ALP first preference vote in Federal elections this century. The author raised the likely need for the ALP to formalise their coalition with the Greens in order to be electable, in much the same way that the Liberal and National parties traditionally have.

One big problem I can see for Labor in such a scenario is that it's by no means a sure thing that Greens grassroots members would support a formal coalition with the ALP, and unlike the other parties the Greens are bound by a consensus approach to such matters. An overwhelming majority of ordinary Greens members would have to approve such a major move, for which there would need to be extensive work at branch level to have a hope of succeeding.

And I daresay that there many in the ALP who would be even more intransigent.

Shadow minister you are always good for a laugh, and if I was still in the work force I would print your posts and drop them on every lunchroom table.
To prove much of what is being said is rubbish.
On forming your party the man we now know as Sir Robert Menzies, started a long partnership with another party.
Country party, those who remember history know at times the leader of that party seemed in control.
Black Jack John McQuewan for a start.
Far from those two,no statesman ,no leader, your little fella,a reference to his vision and worth not size,BARGAINED and lost.
He offered Greens every one, the world, to support him.
Greens are inthe house they have made a choice,that choice is your problem, is it not?
I am anti green,have handed out their HTV for the last time think/know they are a danger to Australian Politics.
Bob Brown turned me that way,he alone screamed at me.
You however should rejoice, if you understand politics you would.
Gillard with the greens in tow, because of Bob Brown fracturing of the left of center vote.

Will see Conservative government for generations.
Unless Labor gets its wanted out comes and calls a double election .
Australia will suffer a vote for the greens is a vote for conservatives.

The greens have evolved from a environmentalist movement to absorbing those from the hard left. This deeply socialist bent appeals to the union movement and is sucking the support from Labor's left.

With the rapid increase in personal wealth across the classes, and with unemployment below 5% the need for big government to create jobs has passed. Most of politics has moved towards the conservative ability to protect wealth, and labor's attempt to gain the centre ground has left its socialist members stranded. Labor is forced to continue this tactic, as they still get green preferences.

This has left an ample recruiting ground for the new greens, who not actually being responsible for policy are free to espouse principles free of compromise. Which makes the greens very uncomfortable partners especially when they hold the balance of power.

This lack of compromise, however, will prevent the greens in their present format from gaining government. IF they are to make serious in roads to Labor they will need to go for their union base, which will require a flexibility they have so far not shown.

Well congratulations is in order for the Honorable Bob Brown. Finally commonsense stands between the pillars greed/corruption. While the rest of the world burns the candle at both ends like there's No tomorrow, The greens along with supporters of a great and sustainable future, hold the very key that keeps Australia together for the long haul, and not for the sort term, that will prove disastrous at the currant rate that human-beings that are eating this planet alive.

Think of the people after you, if you can.......and the earth that needs a place for the youth/plants/animals to have the same chance and advantage that you had.

http://bob-brown.greensmps.org.au/

Its the old that don't give a toss, and why should they, when they know their time is almost up.

The 60% of people that reject the carbon tax are over 55 years.

And all they want is whats best for their own greedy selves. Well No surprise on that one, is there.

http://greens.org.au/content/bob-brown-visits-darling-downs

LEAP

SM rubbish! only the awful criminal union known as the CFMEU is not a mortal enemy of the greens.
My thoughts on them are shared.
If a poll was taken, not on line, it would be clear no party ever in our history has ever been disliked as much.
However your mate is catching up.
QL you will get no more response.

Belly,

I agree with you that at the moment they are not on sides with the unions, rather that if in the future they wish to expand their socialist credentials the unions will logically be their next target. This probably will not be for a number of years.

This will require compromising their ideals with reality, and if this happens and the greens start developing realistic policies, it will be a sure sign that a full scale assault on Labor is on the cards.

SM,

I don't understand your reasoning. Why do the Greens need an assault on Labor when they're in Coalition with them and seem to be co-operating quite amicably. In the meantime they will win a few seats from Labor and a few seats from the Liberals. I don't think they much care which party they work with as long as that party favours their point of view. It's better to have an ally than a staunch opponent.
And ti seems to me that in order to survive the Greens are learning how to compromise which is something that others can learn from. How many concessions did the Libs have to make in order to appease the Nationals? That's the way of political success.

http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2011/06/what-chance-a-double-dissolution-in-the-next-three-years.html
The link is informative, long yes but informative.
I do not make my remarks about the greens out of nasty feeling toward them, but real fear.
I come from the section of the ALP that pulled pushed and shoved us toward the middle ground.
Greens came from our refugees and the very left, indeed only a fool would not know extremists live in the greens.
OH yes good folk too, Brown? no longer sure, but he may well be extremist, he in my view is no longer a believable conservationist.
Greens, just as the DLP did, ONE Nation nearly did, will cripple the side they sit with.
Do not put me in the Gillard fan box, if she won a DD election controlled both houses I would still defame her,by telling the truth.
But she MUST take on Brown, has behind the scenes already, he has been told .
Changes are coming, we should know things are not the same greens will, almost exclusively vote with Labor.
Informed whispers say 3 of Abbott's team will cross the floor to get the carbon tax up.
Abbott's stocks will be much lower in 12 months if he lasts.
But nothing can restore Gillard.
And who of us, with both major party's returning serve, Brown started a war, thinks other than its control in the senate the greens will hold their votes, even less think they can improve.
The link tells much I await that poll,will bet my home more dislike/hate even the greens than vote for them.

SM, what you don't realise is that the Greens have always had a much broader political agenda than the MSM and major parties have hitherto generally acknowledged. The environment is only one of four ideological 'pillars' that the Australian Greens share with political Green parties around the world, the others being participatory democracy, peace and nonviolence, and social justice. Indeed, the 'environment' itself only attracts political salience because it is integral to the fourth pillar of ecological sustainability.

While it suited the conservative punditry and major parties to misleadingly dismiss the Greens as a single-issue 'activist' party - indeed, going so far as to conflate deceptively all 'green' activism with the Greens political party - it also suited them to simply ignore the social, economic and cultural policy objectives that have always had equal weight within the Greens since their global inception.

Now that steadily increasing electoral support means that the Greens actually have to be taken seriously, it might be fruitful for SM and the other Green detractors to visit the Greens' website and acquaint themselves with actual Greens policies, objectives and structures, instead of regurgitating the garbage they evidently get from the tabloid media and talkback radio. They may also be confounded to learn that, unlike the 'major' parties, the Greens don't necessarily want to form government in their own right.

Rather, they want their policies enacted, preferably via a collaborative process whereby a truly democratic and representative government can agree on outcomes to the benefit of everybody, and with which everybody can live sustainably. Many Greens members would recognise that they are not ready as a Party to govern in their own right, and indeed may never be.

What is important is not so much who is Prime Minister, but the quality and composition of the government they lead. The Greens support multi-party government, and actually practise it in Tasmania. The Greens aren't the "strangler vine of politics", rather they are still in the process of blossoming!

Sorry bloke I know the greens policy's.
And too that people like you exist within the party.
Good an honest people.
But I too know that such as Lee Rianon are there too.
That a world controlled by Browns greens would cripple my country.
I know too, as unpalatable as it is to you, my quote is quite true.
From just within the ALP within the last 18 months, due to your party's extremism, more ALP voters than the 12% who vote for you.
Distrust/dislike.will never vote for/ or trust the greens.
Add conservatives , know in my view three to one you are in a party out numbered by those who do not want or trust you.
And as a green thumb gardener I too understand my party planted the seeds of yours.
I understand, fear, am concerned that given current frozen support for Gillard, restoring my party's grass roots support is not going to be easy.
But I know too fawning over your party will not be the way.
My party's enemy is my enemy currently we are at rock bottom but not for long .

Ah "Green Strangler Vines".....

Yes, indeed SM, the small minded politics for the obsessive compulsives, too afraid to allow people the freedom to choose and achieve for themselves. The Greens seek to strangle individual choices by making all choice the preserve of "Green Experts" (self appointed form the ranks of the gangerous mob)

I would further note

Watermelons grow on vines too....

you know watermelons....

Green on the outside and Red on the inside....

The real politics behind the environazis who can be collectively referred to as Lenins "Useful Idiots"....

Afraid their betters might improve their lot above and beyond them, leaving the "sub-standard" individuals of the green movement left behind, contemplating how to catch up......

The greens solution to catching up.... slow the achievers down so they cannot benefit from the fruits of their endeavours....

Marx and Engels promoted the same obscenities,Lenin and Stalin implemented it....

by using mass murder and mass starvation as the preferred tool of state.

That is why no one should ever contemplate a deal with a Green.... I suggest we elave Julia to focus on that, in her imminent retirement from politics

Col...lol....temper temper now:) Your hate for the greens is something to watch:) I enjoy a good victory, don't you. lol

Col. Can you tell me with fact what you fear?
or are you just alot of hot wind?
Your thinking old time politics.
and we all know populations and the destruction
of the environment wont stop
cause its human greed
the very nature of
man that needs
direction
not you:)

See, humans Iam sorry to say, are a plague.....a virus if you like, and the preferred two party system needs a gatekeeper so to speak.

Tony you cant trust, and gills all over the place, and the two are just sharing a box of band-aids.

Still don't make sence, well the Greens don't have to run everything passed you for approval.

The north wind is blowing and its steady as she goes.

Peace and all that jazz.

LEAP

Quantum "Col...lol....temper temper now:) Your hate for the greens is something to watch:) I enjoy a good victory, don't you. lol

Col. Can you tell me with fact what you fear"

I fear nothing

The greens, ultimately, represent a bunch of facile idiots

but idiots still get to make a noise of no merit, admittedly.

Because I can articulate the dangers of listening to idiots, do not assume I am angry or fearful.....

I merely say it how it is, it is a facility I use in my work.. cut through the polite crap which most people put on life and get straight to the maggots which consume the decrepit.

Greens are Lenin’s useful idiots… and no nation needs them because they aspire to grand schemes and impossible dreams, things never to be achieved and in their demands, misdirect the efforts and opportunities from those things which could really benefit humanity.

Example technology requires investment and effort….. real solutions to food and energy needs can and will be resolved by human technical innovation.

Wasting money and resources on banning coal burning power stations and building useless wind farms merely absorbs resources from those technical innovations.

Better the greens go back to their vegetable gardens and manage what they are capable of, the vegetables…and leave national policy to those who can deal with it…..

which, going on the performance of Krudd, Gizzards & Co and the long history of catastrophic failure of Labor, leaves us with the Liberal Party, the closest thing to libertarian capitalism with a wide popular base in Australia today

And of course there are some who just like to insult those who don't share their politics. Typically, they tend to be rusted-on supporters of one of the major parties, whose parliamentary conduct they tend to emulate. I don't waste my time on them, but reasonable readers are well-advised to check out the Greens and their policies on their excellent website, rather than taking notice of MSM disinformation or childish name-calling.

The increasing volume of shrill, ignorant and desperate insults is a sure sign that the 'major' parties and their supporters are deeply worried. As I've said before, with every election at every level of Australian politics the Greens are steadily gaining both electoral support and parliamentary representation. Despite the wishful thinking of those political dinosaurs who can't accept change, the effect and influence of the Greens are only just beginning to be felt.

Like it or not, the Australian political landscape is changing, and it's the LNP and ALP who are being left behind.

Morganzola "The increasing volume of shrill, ignorant and desperate insults is a sure sign that the 'major' parties and their supporters are deeply worried."

I trust you do not consider me "shrill"....

I see the greens as the whimsy vehilce of stupidity, supported by the unlearned.

Doubtless there is always the risk of a "green" presence, by any name in politics.

They can be lumped together and called "activists" and can generally be classified as people who either have more time than sense....

or students, the half formed "intellects", who will eventually grow up and if they are lucky, morph into LNP Supporters

(or , if they are unlucky, stupid or fail their finals, turn to Labor)

As for worried... not me....

Liberal will get returned in the next election because Gizzards is screwing it up and her minority government know... the greens will disappear in the next general election, along with the independents who they need to pretend they are a government today...

worried... not me!

I say... bring it all on and

THE SOONER THE BETTER

Yes thanks morganzola, and all I see is fear:) A wetting in it pants fear! I understand that change is a scary thing, but standing there name-calling just show the degree of fear from our Col. Ive been watching it for years, and still! I cant figure it out:) Must be a bush thing:) Col....do you think Bob brown would be a bad leader? If so, can you with honesty, tell all of Australia why this man would fail at the Job?

Now, The environment plus, and all of everything that humans need to survive on, someone has to take care of this.
Who would you indicate as the primary carer for such an important undertaking, and why would you put that person in charge of what most Australians think, is the most important commonsensical absolution?

I would of thought a person like you, would not display the very telling signs Of Narcissistic Personality Disorder?:)

You know there's help for that:)

LEAP

Dear Moganzola,

Thank You for a rational, well reasoned post. So refreshing to read. It's pleasing to read a post such as yours - from a superior debator who does not need to stoop to personal attacks. Sound reasoning will conquer unreasonable generalisations every time.

Lexi,

"Why do the Greens need an assault on Labor when they're in Coalition with them and seem to be co-operating quite amicably. In the meantime they will win a few seats from Labor and a few seats from the Liberals."

Have you read any newspapers at all?

The seats the Greens are getting are from the left wing of the labor party not from the coalition. When they get seats from lib preferences, they would certainly have gone to labor otherwise.

As for their co operation, it comes at a price. For example, just yesterday Juliar said "petrol will be out now and out for the future", but now it appears the greens have won a review of this by the productivity commission in 3 years, making her a liar again.

Morganzola,

I am fully aware that the greens' agenda extends far beyond ecological issues, but one thing they don't stand for is economic growth. "Social justice" means high taxes and big government spending, pretty much where the labor party were firmly entrenched in the 70s. This type of socialism has been tried and failed.

I without doubt, am one of Morgans SHRILL commentators.
And GUILTY I AM!
I too am informed, oh yes I take the willow branch to my party's back.
But without reserve I fear long term, DECADES, of conservative government.
Sponsored by?
The foolish with in my party,who think our problems come from leaving our old worn and torn shoes.
Putting on runners and joining the majority.
They think bending twisting turning back then trying to keep up will serve.
Gillard is such a person.
And those who hide within the greens, but give preference to Labor, so feel they are kicking us for not being in opposition with their policy's.
It is true, Morgan will say no, but it is, middle class higher income kids in private schools type are the back bone of the greens.
It is true, tell me it is not ,the defense policy's of the greens leaves my country standing ALONE if war comes.
Tell me,regardless of its impacts stopping the use of COAL ASAP is not greens policy's.
Talk to me of long term migration policy's of the greens.
Be honest Morgonzola, you your self are not bad at insulting us, me too in the post Lexi praises you for.
What is your policy on boat people.
Now yes,you ALWAYS do much better in ANY POST than some,I take on board your dislike of my view point.
But mate you ride as Abbott does on the back of my party's bad acts leadership and policy makers.
In truth had Rudd not fallen you would have lost not won votes.
More Australians now and forever will never vote for you than do.
IF that is STRIDENT so be it.

As I thought, the anti-Green hysteria being encouraged by some is evidently based on tabloid/shock jock disinformation, rather than upon firsthand information that is easily located and accessed. Belly's assertion that the Greens would have us "standing ALONE if war comes" is a good case in point. The only Greens policy I can find that comes anywhere close to justifying this lie is the one that calls for Australia's withdrawal from ANZUS if our allies under that treaty continue to breach flagrantly international standards on human rights, e.g. the US use of torture, DU weapons etc.

Not quite as inaccurate, but also based on ignorance, is SM's claim that social justic means big taxes and big spending. Social justice means protecting human rights, particularly those of the most vulnerable and disadvantaged people in society. Yes, it costs money, but this can be redirected from other areas of budget expense, but SM evidently hasn't bothered to look.

One thing that would certainly improve the tenor of both government and political debate would be if participants in both would commit to arguing and acting honestly, instead of employing the mendacity which has become almost normal in such debates in Australia.

I would have thought that Brown standing up & spruiking a world government should be enough to frighten any sensible Ozzie.

It's not enough tor this fool to want to give far too much to corrupt organisations like the UN, he wants to give our birthright away as well.

Stupidity is alive & well, & growing among inner city elites.

Quantumleap

Love your sense of humour, you should ask Col how he feels about homosexuals before asking why he wouldn't see Bob Brown as a reasonable PM.

However, I understand the Greens do not wish to play at leaders, rather to provide much needed balance in a two party system in which both sides have forgotten their philosophies along with the will to govern FOR Australia. Liberals are not liberal and Labor is not about workers. Both sides are about winning elections.

Morganzola, you have directed the unwilling to the Green Pool many times, even if they have taken a drink their physiology has mutated into a political blindness as to render them unthinking.

"The Greens party has become a major beneficiary of donations from hard-Left trade unions in recent years.

The Victorian branch of the Electrical Trades Union gave $325,000 to the Greens ahead of the last federal election to assist the party with its successful campaign to wrest the seat of Melbourne from the ALP.

ETU state secretary Dean Mighell declared at the time the Greens were the only party with "decent IR policies".

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/greens-rookie-ready-to-rock-the-boat-on-donations/story-fn59niix-1226086776537

The greens also get donations from CFMEU construction division and the Communications Electrical and Plumbing Union.

Morgonzola,

With all due respect, just about everything the greens do is directed towards income re distribution under the "social justice" banner.

Damn the Greens and Labor. They won't get hold of my millions.Who cares about increased unemployment as long as big business can continue to make big profits.

I agree with Tony Abbott, we should pay the polluters to pollute more.
We have enough of the workforce so we can tax them more to pay the polluters. Who cares about unemployment Tony Abbott will solve the problem by shutting more hospitals, getting rid of trains and buses,
shutting down universities, eliminate pensions, and everything will be right.

Thank God for the Liberal Party, I love the boys.

Why do we need the Greens they don't do anything but try to improve our social fabric and that only cuts into my big profits.
Great Big New Tax? I'm only concerned about my Great Big New Profits.
And if the boat goes down - I have my corporate jet to take me to safety.

The once great Australian Labour Party ( yes the good old gungadins took the 'u" out when they decided that they were above getting their hands dirty, founded in Queensland ( it is amazing how much QLD has contributed to the progress of the Australian nation) in 1891. The faceless men who run the factions of the modern creature called the ALP share no DNA with the mighty shearers strikes and coal miner strikes at the turn of the twentieth century.

The ALP is unelectable in its own right. Its core supporters are unions ruled with an iron fist and unions led by timid rabbits too scared to stand up to the bullies.The events in Greece are an indication of the repertoire of the so called socialist left. The baby boomer generation men got it too easy and everyone is paying for it now. We are all paying economically and environmentally. Leadership has to come from somewhere. As always the great danger is from demagogues.Just as men in Greece are only interested in 20-30 years retirement on a state pension( like yeah) protected species of workers in Australia like car makers and coal miners ( there is the whole climate change problem right there)will resist change because they never learnt the work adapt. I read somewhere recently the human race has a window of five years to choose whether to go extinct quickly or slowly. That apparantly is the only offer on the table.

Aquarius not every one under stands you are a green care to come out of the cupboard.
Have no doubt if Shadow Minister Tony Abbott Christopher Pyne had one wish, one plan, it would be to see the greens grow, just a bit.
OH YES slam me, kick me bash me, for doing just what the greens are intent on, putting my party first.
An attempt today, to install one of nine greens to head the senate maps out the future.
DIVIDE and Conquer, JUST TWO YEARS AGO, GREENS DID NOT FIGHT WARS WITH labor.
brown DECLARED WAR ONE HE CAN NOT WIN.
Morgonzola, I thought better of you, you infer my thoughts ideas and view points are made for me by media!
A charge conservatives level at me, can you not debate me without that insult?
Am I wrong in these three questions I ask of you?
1
Is it true more dislike/distrust the greens than vote for them?
2
Is it true the greens want in defense to withdraw our troops and stand on our own , what about our treaty's.
3
You should proudly stand by your thoughts here.
is it true, your policy's on boat people amount to open door.
It is mate!
Supplementary 4
if so is it not true MANY MORE BOATS WILL ARRIVE?

Belly, I don't know why we're concerned about the boat people. Each year thousands arrive by plane. It is faster, cheaper, and safer than boats. We process them at the point of arrival on the mainland in our capital cities and either send them back or put them in detention centres. There are television documentaries on that topic every week.
"Border Protection," and "Customs." People that come by boat are entitled to the same rights as those that come by plane.
It is boat people that make headlines in the newspapers, stir up politics, and get everybody talking. We all know that proportionate to the total arrivals they make up a very small percentage and unfortunately we take advantage of the misery of these people.

As for the Greens, there has always been some party or group "Democratic Labor Party," "The Democrats," and who knows what names they will choose in the future. There will always be people that want to be different from the two party mainstream. Isn't that how the "Country Party" and the "National Party," were born?
In any society where people's thoughts are controlled by a majority or minority rule we call that dictatorship. There will alwsys be those that will have an alternative view and that should be encouraged in a democracy. If we listen some of what they say may be beneficial for the whole nation.

Belly

"The information is contained in a Federal Parliament background note on boat arrivals.

"The majority of onshore asylum seekers actually arrive in Australia by air with a valid visa and then apply for onshore protection through Australia’s humanitarian program at some stage after their arrival," the note, authored by Jane Phillips said -- referring to figures issued by the Department of Immigration.

RELATED: Dept. Immigration - Monthly Detention Snapshot, May 2009

Most of these applicants receive a bridging visa upon lodging a protection visa application.

In most cases, the bridging visa allows the applicant to remain lawfully in the community until the protection visa application is finalised.

Boat people 'usually genuine refugees'

Ms Phillips says those who arrive by boat, in any country, are more likely to be accepted as genuine refugees than those who fly.

Of the boat arrivals, past figures showed between 70 and 97 per cent were later found to be genuine refugees.

The majority arriving by plane were not found to be refugees, the report said.

Most people in detention visa over-stayers

Detention is mandated for all unlawful non-citizens in Australia.

Over much of the past two decades people in immigration detention have predominantly been visa over-stayers, unauthorised air arrivals, and those whose visa has been cancelled, rather than those who have arrived unauthorised by boat, the paper said."

From: http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1295782/asylum-seekers-where-australia-stands

Yours truly leave to continue bashing her head against wall because it is less painful than repeating facts ad nauseum.

Ammonite

The article you quote is written in 2011 using figures from early 2009, and was true whilst the pacific solution restricted the number of boats. The story in 2010 or today would be very different. I would suggest that this was deliberate misrepresentation, and if this is the quality of information that the greens use to support their arguments, they are deliberately deceitful.

I am aware of the arrivals by plane, as far back as 4 years ago we talked about that here and often after.
However My question needed an answer, it seems I will need to give it.
As it is clear, more Australian want to stop the boats than not? any disagreement with that?
And IF GREENS POLICY is processing here on shore and rarely refusing entry if at all.
Is it not clear boats, great numbers more THAN EVER will arrive.
I offer this thread, the fact I find myself on the same side as SM! as evidence left of center vote is in real danger in my view Conservatives are the winners.
My concerns and total opposition to greens is my right,and shared by far more than the numbers who vote for them.

Dear Belly,

I don't get what all the fuss is about concerning the Greens. The Greens having the balance of power in the Senate, at least for now, will mean greater scrutiny of their policies and parliamentary tactics. That's a good thing isn't it? Also many of the Green's policies are far more popular than conservatives like to believe and
their party has shown a surprising instinct on certain issues, like Brown's argument that Australian Mining Companies are 83% foreign owned. This will prise votes from the Libs at the next election.

Ammonite,
Gee, you are good at using only info and stats that suit your agenda, is it accidental or deliberate with the aim of deceiving us?

Quote you.'RELATED: Dept. Immigration - Monthly Detention Snapshot, May 2009'

From 2002-2008 there were 18 boats. 2009-2010 therewere nearly 200 boats. You use outdated information.

Quote you'"The majority of onshore asylum seekers actually arrive in Australia by air with a valid visa and then apply for onshore protection through Australia’s humanitarian program at some stage after their arrival," the note, authored by Jane Phillips said -- referring to figures issued by the Department of Immigration'.

That was the case when Howard ruled. Since then the number of boat arrivals has increased 20 times, making boat arrivals many times more than ait arrivals. Illegal air arrivals are also sent packing on first flight out.

Quote you 'Boat people 'usually genuine refugees'

The simple reason for this finding is that we cannot validate who they are, so unable to send them back. Most air arrivals are refused and sent back, as we can verify who they are.

Quote you 'Most people in detention visa over-stayers'

Not any more, boat people far out number the over-stayers.

It really is tiresome correcting your spin and distortions.

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2781824.html
This bloke would not know me, I however have known him for a very long time.
I was a very radical young man when I first found him in a left , now gone newspaper.
He has a point here.

Lexi, my regards but I need you to under stand this.
Greens live by taking ALP votes not conservative ones.
Their policy's repel voters.
Until a very few months ago,they drove the ALP with threats they would with draw their support.
It must be hard for many, who know only that the greens are CURRENTLY supporting the ALP.
But they saw seats in NSW go conservative because they plan to fight the ALP for supremacy.
I watched them form,regarded them highly, but trust me they are going to, by fracturing the left of center vote, put conservatives in power.
Shadow Minister also knows this ,that is why he loves these threads.
Last Lexi my claim,the greens have more enemy's than Friends is now and forever the truth.
But sadly they,just by being with Labor turn voters to conservative ones.

@ Belly:

In response to my suggestion that people get their information about the Greens' policies from their official site, you responded with some nonsense about Greens' defense policy being for Australia to "stand ALONE if war comes", which I showed could only be a distortion of the Greens' policy that demands that we only enter into treaties with States that comply with accepted international humanitarian standards. The other examples you gave are equally distorted and embellished. If you didn't derive those 'policies' from the MSM, you certainly didn't get them from the Greens' website, where all their policies, structures & philosophies are available for easy perusal.

Come on mate, you reckon you know Greens policy, but I've just demonstrated that you don't, and that you haven't bothered to base your extreme antipathy to the Greens on anything much beyond hearsay and misplaced Party loyalty.

Here's a deal for you: I'll answer your questions when you can show that you've actually read the Greens' relevant policies firsthand.

@ SM:

Every Party has social and economic policies that redistribute income. Wasn't the Howard government the biggest taxing government in Australia's history? According to your spin, that must make them socialist.

All:

The pathological obsession that the 'major' parties and their apologists have with asylum seekers continues to demonstrate what pathetic parodies of their former selves they have become. Today awe saw history made as 9 Green Senators took their place in government. If the LNP and ALP continue their vapid race to the moral bottom, expect to see many more.

Ammonite

"Love your sense of humour, you should ask Col how he feels about homosexuals before asking why he wouldn't see Bob Brown as a reasonable PM."
Whats the point, lord Col only visions his own type of trash mouth politics, but even he has them all worked out to a tee.

"Both sides are about winning elections."

And your quote above is exactly the only motives politicians have, and their own families well being. We the workers make them the money their fat arses feed upon while the rest of us are constantly bombarded with LIES CORRUPTION and sending the very people they claim to serve, into a spiraling nose dive of depression and out right extreme stress. Rising costs of living will result in the currant crime explosions QLD and other states are in-countering, and as everyone knows, STRESS effects the entire human condition.

I ask just to give the greens ago. No party has polices everyone agrees with, however he has vision and the balance of power to stop the one-way problems we see, when one of the two party preferred are voted in.

continued

Shadow M quoted....

With all due respect, just about everything the greens do is directed towards income re distribution under the "social justice" banner.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Monday, 4 July 2011 10:32:08 AM

And Iam into the same "social justice" whether Gay rights, the environment, equal-rights for all you could thing of, and that's Australian I recon....and calling people fags, wogs, perverts , green scum, right and left winged morons, up myself attitudes that you get from the yuppy 4x4 clowns, city slickers that wouldn't know one end of a cow from the other, rednecks, and the lists goes on that mostly country label others just because of a difference of opinion.

Talk about adult-children.....does the words grow up mean anything?

Gezzz Col calm down son:) just because I don't hang down the pub, or think Iam some kind of macho hero, don't make people GAY or anything else for that matter, and I would appreciate it, if others can hold off from making fools of themselves to myself and family.

I have quite a think skin, but threats, defamation of character or any mob rule will be delta with......and that just sum up what some people do just to get their pathetic little kicks out of life, and I see this done to many in Australia and if you do it, your just a moron.

Arrrrrrrr Iam going for a beer:)

LEAP

Ah, at last the reds, the anarchists, the protest vote, animal
liberation and a few other odds and sods, finally have a home!

According to the Weekend Australian, one of the new
senators was supporting the old Soviet Union even after the
Berlin wall had fallen. Then red suddenly turned green for
her, which of course gives you brown.

So now we have Kumbayah politics with not an economically
literate bone between them. Too funny!

Policies I mean say:) and thuck skin hey Ammonite;)

LEAP

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/its-not-so-easy-being-green-in-this-jungle-20110704-1gyxm.html
A day will come, not too far away, that see,s Browns dreams turn to mud, I await that day.
Not for any other reason than a return to mainstreams wishes wants and needs in politics.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/bob-browns-power-trip-makes-labor-look-weak/story-e6frerff-1226087701411
So am I silly,bigoted, fearful, uninformed, or are my fears the very same ones shared by more than 4 5ths of my country men and women.

There you go again, Belly. You've linked to an article in Murdoch's Courier-Mail, which hardly even bothers to hide the fact that it's simply another piece of anti-Green propaganda in Murdoch's open war on the Greens. There is absolutely no analysis of Greens policy, just another litany of unsubstantiated anti-Green dross.

Which of course you've just lapped up, exactly as you were supposed to. The problem with politics in Australia is not the Greens. It is the propensity of ignorant voters to accept such blatant propaganda uncritically. The problem with Labor is that they've moved so far to the right that they no longer stand for anything.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/bob-browns-power-trip-makes-labor-look-weak/story-e6frerff-1226087701411

Bob Brown's power trip makes Labor look weak

"Just as the attention-seeking, look-at-me performance a year after he was dumped as Labor leader did Kevin Rudd no favours with his colleagues, the Greens' never-ending parade of "we're the power balance gang" photo opportunities is likely to provoke everything from annoyance to anger among those almost 90 per cent of voters not rusted on to Brown's outfit.

Since Brown's four new senators clocked on for their six years in the Red House, the new team has been having photo call after photo call with Greens old and new.....

Every day that Brown and his colleagues seek to claim credit and authorship of government policies, they help keep Labor in the electoral doghouse. That the Greens' MPs claim they pushed Labor to a carbon tax and will keep arguing for petrol to be included makes the Government look weak.

Brown has been saying that in his distant dreams - about 50 years away - he can see the Greens replacing one of the major parties which, because of where his party sits, has to be Labor."

The reason I likened the greens to a strangler vine, is that the vine uses the host tree to reach to the light and nutrients, and eventually deprives the host of more and more until the host withers and dies.

Thanks for posting that devastating piece of political analysis, SM. Looks like you and Belly are on the same page, indeed I often wonder why you guys argue so much, given that your respective parties are becoming indistinguishable from each other.

So the Greens seek to influence environmental policy, engage in photo opportunities and don't see themselves in power for 50 years. Oh noes! It's the end of the world as we know it!

Morganzola,
Here is an example of the utter fairyland world of the greens.

The manager of the whyalla steelworks, that employs 4000, said it could not survive with a carbon tax. This stupid semator reckons the place could become one big wind farm and survive.

This amply illustrates the practicality of the greens politicians.

No wonder hard working practical people and business types simply shake their heads in disgust and swear.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/steel-town-could-thrive-without-steelworks-says-sarah-hanson-young/story-fn59niix-1226087508211

The last time I looked at the greens policues, they were advocating lowering the age of consent and their defence policy was to do away with the ADF and instruct people in the ways of 'passive defence' which means laying down in front of the invading tanks and hoping they will lose traction as they go owver you. Brilliant!

Banjo, interesting article. Without steel, it will be interesting
to see how they build those wind turbines. Paper mache perhaps.

But then Morgan is against air conditioning as well. I wonder
if the Greens make that clear to their voters.

Banjo, I'm surprised you have Brown so wrong.

He won't tell you to lie down in front of invading, he'll be handing out rose petals for you to strew in their path.

Of course there won't be invading tanks, our invaders use old Indonesian fishing boats.

Still, it won't be long before they don't need them either. If he gets his way, we'll be governed by the world parliament & we will do as we are told by them.

I'm told the Liberals throw a great party. One day I might be invited.
Now if I had millions in off-shore accounts and did not pay tax, lived in a mansion on the harbour and a "shack" on the beach, had six luxury cars in the garage and flew a corporate jet, then I could fire a few more workers, make bigger profits, my wife would be happy and I could vote Liberal again.

Now if I was young and wanted to change the world for the better, my children and my family were my life, I would vote Green.

But now that I'm retired and on a pension and my concerns are of a social nature, I can't afford a government that wants to cut spending on social services. I must vote Labor.

Aquaris, don't you recall little Julia didn't want to give any more money to pensioners, she reckons that they don't vote Labor any way. This should give you an idea of where her social conscience is at. If you want to get onto Labors spending list, you had better join one of those groups they want to buy.

God help any kids of yours if you change the world for the Green better. Once that world government kicks in, you'll find your kids being governed by a typical third world government. Mugabe anyone?

Aquarius hope you meant it and not having a crack at me.
Morgonzola, and just a hint in others, is upset.
See here we are told, the 88% are wrong!
Put me to the test folks, these things I believe are true.
In declaring war, on the sinking ALP ship in NSW Brown shot himself,his party in both feet.
The last federal election was the high water make for the Greens.
While SM posted a link I already had, read the other one, see it is true Australians have had a gutful of the radicals within conservation cloths.
Morgan, you have not/will not answer my questions.
Find another flower float, yours has done its dash.
Social reforms too important to be in the hands of such.
Labor continues to be the party of change Sunday starts our return

Hasbeen, Mugabe anytime, but save us from Tony Abbott. I don't know where his brain is. I've worked with the likes of him and it was total disaster for the company.

Belly, we're kindred spirits and see things as they should be.

I have NEVER claimed to be bullet proof.
I get things wrong.
But in politics, watch Shadow Minister launch in to me, I get it right more than wrong.
At a time AUSTRALIAN MEDIA including in fact some times lead by the ABC, is letting Tony Abbott lie, miss lead, damage his own party.
We are focused on?
If I have any right, to say what most Australian think.
I think Australia is sick of PC.
That it is true!
many more Australians, distrust even hate the greens than vote for them.
Always filthy with my movements UNION/ALP for its blindness to the word SOLIDARITY being an excuse for ignoring those we exist for.
I lead a campaign in the NSW Government instrumentality's, my members worked in.
AWARE the ALP in NSW had sold out its employees I asked one third of my state to express their discust by voting Green.
They nearly one thousand ordinary Australians, some active members of major party's SCREAMED AT ME! never Belly not the greens.
If I gave here the true opinions of average Australian workers to the greens here GY would Be forced to ban me for some time.
Vote conservative if you must, but if you vote green you do in fact assist to cripple the ALP and promote a conservative government,
So condemn me isolate me but do not pretend to support free speech honest speech.

@ Belly:

Not upset at all - just disappointed that you prefer to remain ignorant and regurgitate the dishonest spin served up daily by the 'major' parties. I had thought better of you than that.

I'm happy to discuss Greens policies with you once you've actually read them. I can't see how it's possible to discuss them intelligently without having done so.

@ Aquarius:

Greens social welfare policy is every bit as supportive of the elderly as that of the ALP. I guess you must be another who likes to discuss Greens policy without knowing what it is.

I too am not shouting, sweating, or at all angry as I write mate.
Take no joy in hurting your feelings.

See I am not blind to your policy's, heard most from Bob Browns mouth.
They are not secrete.
I disliked Bush as much as anyone, but Browns welcome in the house was the act of a ratbg.
That Sydney council , no can not go there again what a crock of filth that was.
Brown mid NSW election saying he wanted no preference deal, that I thank him for, it underlined my party's enemy.

Ah Yabby,

Speaking of the grape vine, here you are again you good little lib trying to drum up votes. Dont you think its time you broke the news to your little buddy and came out from the closet.

http://www.skynews.com.au/national/article.aspx?id=635258&vId=
http://www.skynews.com.au/national/article.aspx?id=635259&vId=

More evidence of how the alliance with the greens is hurting labor.

As you know we are not ever going to be mates.
But my honestly held view, that your post is quite true, has lost me Friends.
I cannot ever hide my true thoughts and fears, opinions and ideas.
Your party, in my view not currently ready for it, is going to govern soon.
My party has a very few cowards, and a few more fools, who afraid to drive the left to the greens are smacking our right in to considering it.
I will stay,fight for my party and be part of its return as the true party of change .
And history will judge us all, in ten years even your side will see the Rudd/Gillard years as ones of great change and achievement.