In Australia: Last Saturday, Opposition Leader Tony Abbott indicated at the federal Liberal Party council that he was embracing multiculturalism.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/commentary/opposition-leader-embraces-multiculturalism-as-dutch-walk-away/story-e6frgd0x-1226083038786
Quote: it makes more sense than ever to rehabilitate multiculturalism as an expression of our society’s traditional strengths and as a vehicle for building commitment to Australia.
http://www.tonyabbott.com.au/News/tabid/94/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/3613/MULTICULTURALISM-THE-CASE-FOR-HARMONY.aspx

In the Netherlands: The Dutch government says it will abandon the long-standing model of multiculturalism that has encouraged Muslim immigrants to create a parallel society within the Netherlands. "The government shares the social dissatisfaction over the multicultural society model and plans to shift priority to the values of the Dutch people. In the new integration system, the values of the Dutch society play a central role. With this change, the government steps away from the model of a multicultural society." http://www.hudson-ny.org/2219/netherlands-abandons-multiculturalism
Oh yes, nothing promotes harmony like telling immigrants they do not have to respect or obey Australia values or laws. Then again, perhaps Australia can succeed where so many other countries have seen failure. Perhaps, respect and the “the goodwill of migrants “is not really a two-way street and Australia has no right to demand that those who come here accept and respect others.

This poster’s position is that Muslim immigration has been a disaster for all countries in the West. Muslims they bring their values with them, and their values are not those of the West. Certainly there are good Muslims but overall their presence is a big minus that will lead to divisions, confrontation, and trouble. Multiculturalism is nothing but national suicide. Will we never learn?

*LAST Saturday, Opposition Leader Tony Abbott indicated at the federal Liberal Party council that he was embracing multiculturalism*

Tony just wants to me PM & knows Kevin got in with the votes of the migrants- pro migrants.

There could be a sensible arrangements made through the department of immigration if only they would get our regional areas going.
The reason we have trouble at times in Australia falls at the feet of the Government. They dont have any compulsory programs to make these people mix and learn about our culture.

These poor kids come in and straight away they are told- Son No you cant go out to the club with the other kids and meet girls.

Not all these kids go the private schools. Some dont fit in at school because of their parents strict rules & they feel they dont fit in at home anymore either because they see the way the other kids live. All kids just want to be accepted and feel normal.

So you end up with a bunch of angry kids forming their own groups.

So perhaps someone could introduce family interaction courses & if you dont turn up your warned 2md time your out.
Tony might also introduce class ABC one to ten year temporary permanent visa instead of giving citizenship straight away.

Ranging from call one visa one to 2 years B 2 to 4 years C 4 to 6 years D 6 to 15 years - then if there are no black marks give them citizenship.

And before you ask yes that applies to any children born in that time too.

Good reason to behave yourself if you want the honour to be called Australian

After having said that there are some wonderful Muslim People in Australia that we could learn from too.

Not that Tony is interested in anything but being PM for his own ego.

No surprise in the Netherlands- ever since that Islamist murdered Theo Van Gogh the Dutch have quickly reconsidered their previous policies and have been scaling back.
The same thing is happening all over Europe actually (except the UK).
Which strikes me as strange when that empty argument "what will other countries think about us?"- as it seems that for quite a long time that most other countries around the world have gone the direction we are heading years ago.

In Australia, on the other hand;
It's amazing how much the Liberals have lost the plot; Abbot, Vanstone and Morrison to count a few.
And what strikes me as odd is that they are only doing this for the sake of showing opposition to the government.
-As if they think that by aborting their ONLY popular policy, people will simply forget about it and jump to their side.

They don't realize that their tough stand AGAINST multiculturalism and Muslim migrants was the ONLY reason people actually used to vote for them?
Without that they are by far the less popular choice between themselves and Labor- It most definitely wasn't their treatment of Aboriginal people, their workplace policy, extreme religious views against medicine, or neoconservative views towards public services that got them brownie points in the electorate.

(actually, they probably watched the news where President Obama assassinated Osama Bin Laden, and the Republicans pretended to care about human rights, and a bunch of gullible followers did a complete 360 to follow their heroes- and think Australians are dumb enough to be more attracted to the party's unlikable personalities all along).

I think it is now DEFINITELY time to look for a new party to vote for.

I think we could all fall into the trap of tarring all Muslims with the same brush. We can't just have a blanket ban on one whole group of people, or their culture.
Imagine how that action would inflame the already mad ideas of the Muslim hardliners and fundamentalists, not only here, but in other countries?
This sort of attitude can cause wars!

The European countries (and others) who have had terrible atrocities perpetrated by Muslim extremists, have had a poor relationship with Muslim immigrants and multiculturalism in general.
This has resulted in death and mayhem in the name of Islam in those countries.

Australia seems to have avoided most of this anger against it's own people on our own soil. Could this be because most Australians do take a more relaxed attitude to immigrants and multiculturalism?

If we take the hard line and say we will take no more Muslim immigrants, or that if they come here, they must leave their religious and cultural practices behind them, then we will deserve the backlash that action will cause.

Kactuz,
Don't be too concerned about any Liberal change of policy to multiculturalism.

The first link you gave is a commentators opinion and the second link is an extract from the Age newspaper, which is left leaning.

Below is the actual words used in the speech by Abbott.

Quote: "With Geoffrey Blainey, I used to worry that multiculturalism would leave us a “nation of tribes”.

That was before I became executive director of Australians for Constitutional Monarchy and discovered that some of the Crown’s strongest supporters had not been born under it.

Liberals should never be more proud of our country than when migrants choose Australia.

They are the ultimate vindication of our country as a land of hope, reward and opportunity.

Migrants to Australia have always been determined to make the most of their new home by working hard, starting businesses and raising families.

That’s why the Liberal Party should be their natural political home".
Unquote:

I saw an interview with Abbott where he also said his approach had 'softened' to MC.

This is all vastly different to what is claimed that he was 'embracing' MC.

Still I am concerned that his attitude has softened because I think it should be tougher, if anything.

MC was being quietly discarded in the later term of the previous government and, until recently, was not even mentioned by the present government. Even Ministerial portfolio names were changed to delete the word multiculturalism, indicating it was no longer important.

While we WASP and some times of convict stock.
While our very heart those who had parents and grand parents come in the post ww2 migration.
The one that made this country great.
May feel things are threatening, say we are unsure our fate is not in our hands.
Politicians, please understand, ALL OF THEM, think a bigger poorer but bigger Australia is needed.
We are on the way,l [gee grab Belly! stop him saying it!] look to the devisions in Europe Holland the Nordic country's the lot.
MOST Muslims are not the problem, BUT SOME ARE if militant Muslims did not want us to change there would be no problem.
Only from within the Muslim Community can the answers come.
In reference to that woman charging a police officer with a crime he never committed.
IT WAS HER GANGSTER gang that concerns me, the support from with in the Muslim community for this criminal is telling.
Those Muslims, and thousands are out their, who agree with me should speak up about people like Trad and his side kick, those gangster thugs out side the court.
INCLUSION is not a crime saying nothing is.

King Hazza:>> It's amazing how much the Liberals have lost the plot; Abbot, Vanstone and Morrison to count a few. I think it is now DEFINITELY time to look for a new party to vote for.<<

KH I am maxed out regarding my disenchanted with the quality on both sides, and the advent of the governing minorities such as the Greens and the joke independents leave me nowhere to go. I lost my footy team to an amalgamation twenty years ago, and I have not found a new home yet, the same has now occurred in politics, no body satisfies, I can't identify any of them anymore, the lodestone just swings wildly.

Dear Kactuz,

Tony Abbott like his mentor John Howard - is"most comfortable with a singular national identity and assimilationist policy." So don't worry
about anything the man may have indicated to the contrary in his attempt to gain political mileage.

As for comparing the Netherlands with Australia - it's a case of apples and oranges. The differences are enormous between the two regions. Firstly the Dutch have themselves to blame for their current situation because of its culture of permissiveness that has been synonymous with "closing one's eye to multiple transgression of the law." They've allowed the 1.2 million Muslims to become more and more assertive without any regard for Dutch law, Dutch values, and they
have not insisted on them becoming better integrated into Dutch society.

Now of course when faced with problems - they have done an about turn and are44 following the path that Australia has been on all along.
That is - they will insist that they learn the Dutch language (as we do with English), they learn Dutch values, and obey Dutch law. They will outlaw forced marriages and so on. In other words they will not allow Muslims to live in a parallel society doing whatever they wanted
as they've done previously. That is something that they should have insisted on right from the start.

In Australia, we've been way ahead of the Netherlands - and thus I really can't see that you can compare the two regions. I don't see that we shall encounter the problems that the Netherlands has - we've
been much wiser and smarter

Lexi,
Firstly, I must say that am concerned that Abbott has 'softened' on multiculturalism. I have never thought much of him, but he earned some points when he stopped Aus from getting an ETS. Now he seems to acknowledge human induced global warming by his own policy on Carbon tax. Now he is softening policy on MC, which was dieing quietly.

If he is chasing votes he is going the wrong way, there are far more votes in outright opposition to Carbon tax and MC.

I disagree with you that we are smarter and wiser than the Dutch. We let other cultures come here and inform them that they can carry on the same and that we will accomodate their culture.

We have bent to their wishes to discontinue nativity scenes at shopping malls at chirstmas and no Santa at pre schools and have special times for muslim women at community swimming pools. Girls in swimmers have been called whores.

All government departments have interpreters and information is available in up to 30 languages, even though English is our official language. We are paying for this. We even allow a prolification of shop signs in foreign languages to the extent that some streets look like downtown Saigon.

Then, of course, we simply turn a blind eye to forced marriages and the practice of FGM on little Aussie born girls. Only recently has it become known of the violent gangs of African origin in Melbourne and Sydney. Violence between differing ethnic groups such as Croats and Serbs and Sri Lankans and Tamils hardy make the news anymore. We have jailed 20 muslim blokes for planning terrorism and tolerate muslim gangs/thugs like was outside court the other day.

There is no doubt that MC divides us into seperate groups or tribes, when we really need to become one community, with an Australian identity, irrespective of heritage.

We need to dispence with the failed ideology of MC and insist on integration because we are heading in the same direction as many European countries, including Holland. We are not smarter and wiser at all.

Dear Banjo,

Newcomers, especially if they have come to Australia in linguistic or ethnically distinct groups have always had a hard time first. But past streams of migration gave Australia its reputation as a country of diverse peoples that is all the better for it.

International research has shown that some measure of assimilation is inevitable for any ethnic community. Furthermore assimilation is a two-way process. As an immigrant absorbs the culture of his host country, he is also giving off and surrendering some of his own imported heritage. As a result, a Greek or Italian (or any other ethnic origin) living in Australia for a long time is likely to gradually create a new identity, although they may not be aware of it. What the former immigrant still believes to be his ethnic identity may well be regarded as totally Australian by the residents of his country of origin.

An attempt to preserve migrant cultures in Australia was initiated two and a half decades ago, on 30 May 1978,
when the Report of the Review of Post-Arrival Programs and Services to Migrants was tabled in the Federal House of Representatives.
Commonly known as the Galbally Report, the document recommended, inter-alia, "that if our society develops multiculturalism through the broad concept of community education, it will gain much which has been lost to other nations."

This recommendation was based on the observation that "already our nation has been enriched by the artistic, intellectual, and other attributes of migrant cultures."

BTW - one simplified definition of multiculturalism states ...
"Multiculturalism involves living together with an awareness of cultural diversity." You obviously feel that everyone should conform to an "Australian Identity." However,
you don't seem to realise that our diversity is what makes us
who we are in today's Australia. You are living back in the irretrievable past with a fantasy of an Australia that no longer exists.

Lexi,
The multicultural experience started a little earlier than you acknowledge. It began under Whitlam and continued under Fraser

However you said; Commonly known as the Galbally Report, the document recommended, inter-alia, "that if our society develops multiculturalism through the broad concept of community education, it will gain much which has been lost to other nations."

This recommendation was based on the observation that "already our nation has been enriched by the artistic, intellectual, and other attributes of migrant cultures."

History since then has shown this has not been the case, both here and in other countries. For MC to work all ethnic groups must be tolerant of others and that has not happened.

While we have been most tolerant and did our bit to accomodate the various groups and gave millions in assistance, this has not been riciprocated as some groups are intolerant of us and of other ethnic groups. Some hold our laws and community standards in contempt, like the Lebs with their anti-social conduct, Some blatently break our laws, like those who practice FGM and the groups that fight each other in public places. I am sure the 60 or so girls that were racially pack raped feel 'enriched' by their experience.

This, and worse, has happened in other countries and some European countries are now belatedly waking up to the failure of MC. UK, Germany and now Holland have stated changing away from MC.

When it is obvious that we are going the wrong way the smart thing to do is stop, change course.

We should take note of history and other countries experiences and change to a policy of integration and not continue the seperatedness of multicultural ideology. We should desire a cohesive community.

Banjo is not as wrong as you would have it Lexi.
Any government more concerned with truth and honesty can confirm if they wish the following, but they can not say it is untrue.
Some Muslims do not want to assimilate.
Some live out most of their lives on our Social security.
They are over represented in our prisons and certain crimes.
Not because police pick on them, because it is their wanted lifestyle.
Apart from a very few Greeks and Macedonians in sporting confrontations, show me another migrant group will cells openly plotting war on the west in our country.
Sweden a host of European country's opened their arms, much wider than we ever did and had their fingers bitten off.
It is not Banjo and me who are wrong, the answers lay in the Muslim community , only they can reverse the defense at all costs mentality and stop us having reasons to fear and be concerned.

Dear Banjo,

The Galbally Report, 1978, was the turning point when it urged tha Australian Government "to encourage the retention of the cultural heritage of different ethnic groups and promote intercultural understanding." It recognized that it was better to give our ethnic minorites a choice between the invisibility of assimilation and the drama of separateness. A choice of the extremes or of any point between. That they have a right to be different, to protect their traditions, to remember their languages. Of course this caused problems at first - in a society that saw homogeneity as not only desirable but mandatory. There was tension between the ethnic groups and "us," not to mention between and within the ethnic groups themselves. Sadly, many of the problems that developed impinged on the children of the communities, as they fought their disapproving parents for the right to go to a nighclub, for the right to choose a
boyfriend "outside."

In the process we ended up with a more vigorous, exciting country, and in the end, through interaction and discussion, we've sorted most of the problems out.

We're not going in the wrong direction. Our history has shown that quite clearly. Our Greek and Italian communities are the largest groups and are fully integrated. Melbourne is famously claimed to be the largest Greek city outside Greece. Vietnamese Australians experienced intense hostility when they first arrived in the late 70s and early 80s, but time, and the entry of increasing numbers of Vietnamese-Australians into public life, have eroded that prejudice.

Your current expressed hostility toward "Lebs" undoes more than a century of successful migration and settlement from Lebanon and polarises people afresh. In the last 5 years there has been documented and anecdotal evidence of a mass increase in harassment, vilification, and violence towards Australians of Arab appearance both in the media and in popular imagination. Prejudice creates what it fears. We end up with volatile parts of communities living in deep alienation. Our politicians continue to benefit from the fear of Muslims and Arabs rather than working to educate and lead Australians beyond it.

Suzie on Line said;
We can't just have a blanket ban on one whole group of people, or their culture.

Yes we can ! Why should we put ourselves to the expense and trouble
of trying to sort the wheat from the chaff ?

The police complain that they just don't get co-operation from the
moslem community when making inquiries.
This even occurs after a family has been shot at. The victims, who it
seems from comments, are known to police refuse to confirm what the police think they know.

In Sydney we are having almost daily driveby shootings.
A while back they even had the nerve to shoot up a police station.
This is not Baghdad or Kabul.
Yesterday there was another driveby shooting, but the perpetrators
were chased into another suburb by the "victims" and a street
firefight occurred there.
Enough is enough !

I am sorry, I think we have lent over backwards far enough and long enough.
It is now time to call a halt to islamic immigration.
Any criminal activity by family members should be grounds to deport
the whole family, naturalised or not.

Tough ? Unreasonable ? Probably, but what recourse to they leave ?

Dear Bazz,

Criminals are criminals whether they are Muslim, Christian, Jewish,
or any other religion. However people are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law and certainly those caught should be tried under the law the same as anybody who commits unlawful acts. However what your suggesting is banning an entire group of people because of the actions of a few. Would you say the same about other groups that partake in thuggery and crime? Should we ban entire groups of people no matter who they are or is it only Muslims that you prefer to target?

Bazz <"In Sydney we are having almost daily driveby shootings."

Were the Morans or their cohorts Muslim? Were the Asian triad drug-lords Muslim, were the Italian Mafia Muslim?
No, they weren't, didn't they all participate in drive-by shootings at some time?
What about the IRA? What about all those violent Irish Catholics blowing up all the protestants?
Should we thus ban all Asians, Italians, Irish and Catholics from Australia? If not, why not?

We are a multicultural country Bazz, whether you like it or not.
If all immigrants and descendents of immigrants were to be asked to leave, then only Indigenous Australians would be left.

No good me kicking the ground eyes down cast pretending I do not think as I do.
I was a bit of a rough nut in my youth in Sydney, three different spells as football and work took me there then away.
We westys came from every country, I can not get past this.
Never going to name those Sydney suburbs, but name pubs, Lexi I think, once said she knew that area.
Hung around the after work, Plastos, Royal, would not go there armed with an AK47 now.
Down the road? Auntie lived there,she one of 13 kids had that many her self, would never not ever go there now.
Have, and felt the hate, LAKE3MBA named it loved it unwelcome there now.
Will not go on, but how much contact have our posters had with these enclaves in Sydney.
Go to Leicart you will be served by an Italian, who will call you mate and give you a great welcome, feed and send you on your way.
In Lidcome you can get the same From a great Muslim Lady wed to a great Greek man.
Do not put halos, on the head of every Muslim.
Nore bad ,but no blindness, why should the west take migrants from any country that has so different a cultural and religious base?

Certainly an interesting accumulation of threads on this most sensitive topic.

Multiculturalism, has it or does it, really work here in Australia ?

From my limited point of view, I think it has and it shall continue to do so. With most groups and cultural mixes settling in very nicely I must say.

Funnily, upon my repatriation from South Vietnam, the prospect of the then, PM Malcolm FRASER allowing many Vietnamese Refugees into the country. To me, was totally abhorrent and was tantamount to high treason by a former Minister for the Army, no less !

Yet years later, I now have several good friends, including my long serving Pharmacist who are all of Vietnamese extraction.

However, there are groups mainly those from war torn countries in Africa such as the Sudan, Somalia and several other more tribal ethnicities that cannot and will not adhere to our laws, nor respect our various culturals.

Unlike the Vietnamese of long ago, they have no intention of EVER subsuming or trying to assimilate into the Australian way of life.

Interestingly, in Melbourne there are two so called 'warring' families from The Lebanon. The patriarch of one of these families today stated inter alia, "...I return to Lebanon, nobody help me, no police nobody, Australia's a '....' country...". I guess that's an illustration of multiculturalism at work ?

Dear o sung wu,

No - that's just one man expressing his opinion. Just like those people who called for a "Leb and wog bashing day" on Cronulla Beach on that Sunday and wore t-shirts that proclaimed, "Wog free zone,"
or "Ethnic cleansing unit," or "We grew here you flew here."
It takes all kinds. Though I'm not sure why.

Kerryanne:

# The reason we have trouble at times in Australia falls at the feet of the Government. They dont have any compulsory programs to make these people mix and learn about our culture.#

...I think you possess some pre-conceived ideas concerning immigrants attitudes to Australians.
The Dept., Immigration and Citizenship web page, chapter titled , “recently published research” would go some way in helping you to a more informed opinion.

...I am acquainted with several ethnic families, who like us all, want the best outcomes for their children. Although the acquaintances invariable attempted to school their children in their own ethnic based schools, they concluded them to be too introverted, so moved the children to the public system. Some were unhappy with the outcome there (public schools), as being too Liberal.

...It just maybe the point, it is Australians with the need to expand their horizons and become more inclusive and accepting of the ideas and customs of new arrivals.

...I also know from my own experience living in the confines of a foreign language, the one thing the heart pines for, is the sound of spoken English, and how refreshing it is to be able to speak to another human fluently; no body should be excluded from their own ethnic base in this Country against their wishes...

diver dan

If you read my post again- I said the Government do not provide enough help & I mean it. As for personal experience among other things for the past 6 years I have been involved in setting up work shops and groups for people of all ages.
We get everybody together once a month arrange things like clean up Australia day etc..
Many parents and the kids have said they wished there had of been something like that when they first arrived.

So from the horses mouth i can say -it should be done by government not left up to a group of kind volunteers.

I challenge contributors to this thread to refocus.
Every time we talk about the issue, and I believe the issue is the Muslim religion not MC we UN roll our history.
Defend something we need not, oh yes post ww2 refugees met racism, fear and such, but we have grown.
Asian boat people saw extreme racists,small minority's, but over all this is not about MC.
And lets not crawl in to a corner and cry about Crunulla, it was not one sided.
Remember the girls insulted for years on that beach, treated as women all too often are in some middle eastern country's,not far from a time rapists did dreadful things to some.
Remember the youthful and stupid but still it happened provocations against lifeguards, the burning of our flag even the RSL one.
Are we part of a Social Engineering Experiment?
Look back ,those post ww2 refugees are the backbone of Australia.
In the end NO ONE is threatened by their two cultures.
Even our prime Minister is such.
Has the UN, a group of governments ,any one, said in say 200 years we can change the world?
Why have we introduced in to the western world,no think , not good enought to just shout racism.
A group bound by a religion that has a holly book calling for our death, asking its followers to lie to us, exclude us.
Why do we fail to honestly see, no other religion sends children out to kill them selves and Innocent members of their own faith?
This morning a news site reports on how many different people MAY HAVE written the Bible.
If that scientific experiment was done to the holly book of Muslim faith deaths may follow.
In my country we face
murders that surely will come born in hate driven by a belief foreign to us all.
Once Islam lead , some forget it then was not intent on blindness to an illness within

Kerryanne:

...Yes, I understand your view which in précis is, migrants have a need to be compelled to obey cultural norms at the risk of punishment. The birth of that view is directly from Western extremism towards Muslims. You are wrong to hold that view; it is undemocratic..

Bazz:

Cobber,... I think there maybe an upside to the odd shoot-out that we witness in our suburbs. It is painfully obvious to most of us, the law has failed large groups of the population; I think the Muslims of our community are but one group that struggle under the inconsistency of the law in achieving justice: Another group are Aboriginals. Justice fails them miserably.

...A natural progression of the failure of official justice system is to resort to solving the problems amongst themselves. This type of resolution to injustice has an economy attached to it which we are now witnessing!

Well Diver Dan, it could be a self solving problem as in the latest
shootout, but it seems that they are not good shots as no one was killed.
However plenty of unconnected people had holes shot into their houses.

My argument is why should we be bothered with these people ?
Sure it is not all of them, but so what, it should not be up to us
to sort them out.
This is what they bring with them, they think it is normal behaviour.
It is not something to do with our justice system, they are not
interested in the justice system.
Their attitude to police and the courts make that obvious.

Why should we have to re-educate them ?
Immigrants are costing us an enormous amount of money and time and
stress. They are simply not worth it !

Hi there LEXI...

Thank you for your contribution and opinion apropos my comment herein.

Of course, you're quite correct, this individual is but one who chooses to lambast and harangue Australia for failing to render him aid and succour in his apparent hour of 'need' ?

However, I must respectfully point out; regrettably the Lebanese are heavily involved in organised (drug) crimes, and crimes of violence here in Australia. So much so, they're well and truely over represented amongst other ethnic groups, in so doing.

Yet it is appropriate therefore, that I draw your attention to the fact, a high ranking policeman in my former organisation, is of proud Lebanese extraction.

A very highly regarded individual, who I understand is (at this point in time) being considered as a possible (strong) candidate for the vacant position of Chief Commissioner of Police, down in Victoria. A fascinating dichotomy, dont you think Lexi ?

O SUNG WO and BAZZ:

Yes..the status quo may well re-group, but the middle class war is lost. With the black market in Australia estimated to be 15 to 20% of our GDP, and the vast majority of that is trade in illegal drugs, to what global point does Australia mimic for success against the scourge: Certainly not the USA.

It is fairly safe to say, every country in the world is up to its eyeballs in drug money laundered from the black market. When BAZZ and O SUNG WO deride the Australian Muslims as gun toting drug runners, they ignore to mention the role of Asian drug gangs, and in particular the Chinese role in drug importation. For instance, a Government report into Asian drug gangs concluded 85 to 90 per cent of heroin imports into Australia are organised by Chinese organised crime groups.

And it is pretty laughable to hold up the Victorian Police force, O SUNG WO, as a “paragon of virtue”, with its history of entrenched Police involvement in organised crime… In 2007 Don Stewart, one of the nation's most respected judicial figures, says Victoria Police and the Bracks Labor Government oppose a royal commission because they do not want the extent of corruption within the force made public…

Belly.

I may share the same thoughts as Pat Condell, but when religion rules the minds of the primitives and then acts on its readings, well all I can say is........Australia! The stone-age country:)

Its true that most religious people just mind their own business and just get along with day to day life, like all of us do........but when a religion hates the very life we all understand as Australian or WESTERN ......that's when the problem hits the very foundation of what should and what shouldn't be introduced.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJKRF2uB8xU&feature=related

LEAP

Diver Dan,
As far as I can tell the Chinese and the muslem have divided
the drug trade up between them.
They even organised a bikie club to sell amphetamines.
The moslems have tied up the stolen and rebirthing car business.

The Chinese have enough sense to keep as low a profile as possible.
They keep the same arrangement in prison.
The prisons are divided between three ways, with the Australians, the
smallest number, and the rest basically divided into the asian and
middle east gangs.

Prison is not the place to look for multiculturalism, or is it ?

DIVER DAN...

Who's holding up VICPOL as 'Paragons of Virtue' ? Suggest you read my previous post more carefully next time.

What of the Chinese ? We (I) were discussing specifically, those of Lebanese extraction on that occasion... Again, suggest you read my previous thread, again !

You always seem to be producing and quoting ad infinitum, reports generated from individuals who are essentially from an academic milieu.

Personally, with respect to serious crime matters, I hold little or no truck with those of the intellectual or scholarly persuasion. I'm more than likely to take much more notice of those involved directly at the coalface.

Individuals who have a more pragmatic appreciation of what's actually happening on the streets, rather than some obscure research that serves only to produce some vague statistic(s) for government consumption.

Interestingly, with all the problems and difficulties that impede, thwart or retard police in the lawful execution of their duty, rarely in my experience, has any academic ever provided a 'working copper' with improved techniques, strategies or tools in order to help and assist him to do his job better or easier.

Rather, the same learned academic(s) do furnish police with additional paperwork so that more comprehensive data may be gathered for, 'god knows what' ?

Diver Dan, I reckon you should wear blue for six months, and see how the job operates.

Bazz and o sung wu............This will show all you need to know.

http://www.australianislamistmonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2359&catid=190&Itemid=22

Oh and to answer your question bazz.....Multiculturalism its self should be jailed:) and its believers as well:) well done! and said.

LEAP

This has been an interesting discussion. Each of us can only speak from our own experiences and these will affect the way we view things.

For me this discussion has now run its course. Hopefully I shall see you all on other threads.

Take care.

o sung wo good point as is Lexi,s, but The very guts of the issue is we, those who can think, not every one from any group is good or bad.
I however think your work has shown you a side I have seen.
I truly doubt, some contributors under stand the devisions even in the Lebanese community Christian and Muslim.
My states head City has had a Lebanese born Mayor,has a host of sporting hero's from that country too.
I concede Lebanese Christians get involved in crime too.
Dare I say it? see just being honest, just talking of things we see/saw experience gets some of side.
For a racist, thats what some think I am,I do strange things.
ALWAYS say good day how you going,to any new Australian I bump in to.
You can be killed, yes kicked to death, saying just that,to some African migrants!
Police get picked on for ethnic profiling, but those they profile target them selves by their actions.
No burning crosses no white power no xenophobia for me.
Just a view maybe more dangerous than all of them, no religion should EVER get other than its followers support man is divided by a primitive thread that has followed us from the caves intent and crafted to control.
Build reason to hate one another at our country's peril.
Ignore Europe and we will suffer too.

Bazz:

...Bazz, you and o sung wu are in danger of being branded witch hunters. It is really important for Australians to adjust to immigrants and their particular peculiarities. It is equally important to realise the hidden nature of the drug trade and keep the consequences of the black market economy in this country in perspective. The drug trade is in simple terms, a business like all other businesses; it “sinks or swims” on whether it turns a profit or not. The loser in the black market trade is the ATO. The bigger the black market sector, the bigger the loss to the taxpayer, since he makes up the difference in extra taxes.

...To promote, as you both do, by overly invective description of (all) Muslims as an evil scourge on Australian society, you actually do the country you try to defend, a disservice. The Chinese have long been proved as the king pin element in the importation of heroin; but your attack on the ethnic race of Chinese in this country is deafening in its absence, which proves the point to me, your concerns are not logically, but racially directed. Your both racist in the true sense.

...And to the invitation of O Sung Wu to “don” the blue uniform of the Police for a time, I decline. I not only disqualify myself from attaining to the (supposed) privilege due to “a past life”, but that inability also extends (interestingly) to a disqualification to obtain visa entry to the USA on the same grounds.

Often thought you bat for the other team Diver Dan.
Nothing to be proud of in that mate.
Like to line up with the two you target.

Well BELLY, ...we all have opinions based on our own realities; the good thing though is to be able to express those opinions openly. Of course, one of the objects of racism is to suppress the human rights of ethnic groups. Australians over the years have succeeded marvellously well in their racist attitudes to the detriment of Aboriginals.

...By sullying reputations of ethnic groups by innuendo and anecdotal evidence, which many comments in this thread do towards Muslims in the Lebanese community, a myth is perpetuated which does tend to paint an unjust picture of that ethnic community.

...# If #,(and a big if) for example, the prevalence of those with Middle Eastern origins are in proportionately higher representations in our Justice system, the reason is not “necessarily” because that particular group is any more lawless than any other; or exposed in the drug trade more than others; or are exponents of the black market trade of this country more than others, or generally any worse (other than their inherated and externally perpetuated reutation) than any other ethnic group: And (as I point out) if it is still considered desireable to point fingers of scorn at any particular ethnic group, point those scornful fingers at KNOWN ethnic group of drug runners, the Chinese. But no, it still remins silent on that issue doesn't it Belly. With the "nom de plume" of "O sung Wu", maybe something lays a little deeper there!

...The intention of my post was to correct the misconception as I see it. Until I see the evidence that the Lebanese are any more involved in the drug trade than any other Australian passes before my eyes, I remain incredulous to the slanderous and dangerous nature of these racist attacks.

So Belly, if you stack-up behind the racist elements, you are naturally branded as one. Its a trueism; Show me your friends, and I'll show you who you really are!

Multiculturalism we can't deny it from early settlement of this continent we had representation of a multitude of nations, languages, religions, cultures, races. This has been going on for the past two hundred years and will continue to do so for the next two hundred years. We in Australia always pick on the last arrival group and make them a scapegoat for all problems.

I live in a street which has a representation of many cultures and we all live comfortably together. It is the few who will never manage to cope with any neighbour that create and raise the problems. Maybe if those people were removed it would become a better society.

Having arrived from overseas at a very early age I have experienced rejection by the local population and over many years have become accustomed to avoid the unpleasantness. So too other migrants who arrive here much later in life experience the same and tend to associate primarily with their own culture because they don't feel welcomed by the "locals".

No matter what we say or object to multiculturalism is here to stay.
No matter what name we give it. As one politician famously said
"We must populate or we perish." The English no longer find Australia an attractive destination, afterall we discriminate against them as well.

"So Belly, if you stack-up behind the racist elements, you are naturally branded as one. Its a trueism; Show me your friends, and I'll show you who you really are!"

LOL.....What a classic:) belly with his own course of self-rightfulness, I just love it:)

See just like Jane Goodall pointed out to all of us belly, man is No different to the apes and their behaviors. Only in rear cases did Darwin say that humans crossed the species barrier only when natural circumstances gave the way to the nomatical wanderings. Also belly boy, humans are very territorial just like apes are today, and we all know what happens when large groups of males get together, don't we.

Gang behavior shows this quite clearly. All the man-apes draw their boundaries to the point of over-all understandings, and then and only then is there a peace between the two. Wars between human-apes still goes on today, and just like Jane Goodall pointed out, " while scent marks are continuously violated, the mammals behaviorism's will not be changed by simple law or good-will.

continued

No matter what we say or object to multiculturalism is here to stay.
No matter what name we give it. As one politician famously said
"We must populate or we perish." The English no longer find Australia an attractive destination, afterall we discriminate against them as well.
Posted by Aquarius, Friday, 1 July 2011 2:06:56 PM

And Aquarius makes the point even more profound by marking his/her territories in the academic realms:) although "We must populate or we perish." is a correct statement to a point, however when is the point of too many?, and as I've put it before " If you puts two rats in a box...they will breed and live in harmony, However, if one puts ten rats in the same box, the out-comes will be has Jane and I have put here and above to read.

Peace equals space......times the availability of resources. When this is up-set, the ape becomes very angry, and proceeds to beat his chest and demands more territories for his troop members to expand.

Oh and by the way........if one was to go around bellies place for a BBQ, all 195 countries of all colours will be there:)

I hope you have brought lots a ice for Eskimos...lol

Like the great apes, we still prefer to live in small groups.

But what happens when there is not enough rain-Forrest for growth?>

WAR!

Just having a bit of funny belly!

S0 don't get all wounded bloke on me please.

We are all MAN, BEAR, PIGS!

And like Aquarius said.....

"No matter what we say or object to multiculturalism is here to stay."

PEACE

LEAP

QL sorry no harm meant, just honesty, I do not look to you for informed opinion or understanding.
Your views are of little interest and if it was you being spat on while in a police mans uniform [I am not a cop] you may well see, no you would not,, I am afraid giggle away but I think you are way too self confident.,
Sydney siders,not the north shore, see things we once did not , and fear going to some areas.
I find the constant ,childlike, inference any one pointing this out is racist the product of uninformed people at best.

It's quite interesting DIVER DAN, when people are essentially bereft of any practical or realistic arguement, or are simply bankrupt of any superior opinion, they haughtily and disdainfully roll out that good ol'chestnut... 'You're a Racist'

What a wonderful word ! Because an individual asserts or argues a position that's contrary or opposed to you - they can't simply be wrong. Even badly advised. Or, even on the wrong track. No, they have to be a...'RACIST' !

Well DIVER DAN, I'd much rather be the 'RACIST', uneducated, me - than you existing in your finite, sequestered world of theory and academia. At least I'm in touch with reality.

"but I think you are way too self confident. Thats alright belly, I don't think much of you either:) but when it come to the silver-backed-gorilla, I still have all my teeth:) You may have your opinion, I have mine. The Internet is a great source of information, and any new ideas is better than none. You are like a spoiled brat that wants it all your own way, sorry belly....your like the 60% of people that are against the carbon tax......" their old and the future means very little to them.

If belly, you were a confident person, Iam sure more people would listen to you, but your not.
And this just shows how ignorant you really are..."I do not look to you for informed opinion or understanding." belly! people hear me more than they hear you, except for your little online friends here of course:)

Belly! don't talk to me about Sydney mate:) I was once a creature of the night my friend, and I walk safe where ever I go:)

William Wallace would be proud my son:)

Its survival of the fittest where ever you are in this world, and Ive never been a victim in my life....nor will i ever.

You just post what-ever you believe in, and leave others to have theirs.

PEACE

LEAP

Diver Dan, You missed what I said, I know that it is not all moslems.
I do know that the Chinese are the heroin peddlers of the world.
It is just that Chinese are not so much "in your face" about their
religion and hate of Australia.
Dan said;
the reason is not “necessarily” because that particular group is any
more lawless than any other; or exposed in the drug trade more than others;

The point is they are more lawless !
As a relative says even in prison they are more trouble and belligerent.

Anyway no one has answered my question;

"Why should we be bothered ?"

"Why should we be bothered ?" well we shouldn't. This is why we have jails:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1ZLXbKeL2U I don't think anyone's a racist. I think we are all human and cant stand one another for long periods of time...lol....well I dont have 195 of all you can see at my BBQ's, either, but that don't make me no anti-Multiculturalist:)

"but I think bazz has hit the nail right on the head."


"It is just that Chinese are not so much "in your face" about their
religion and hate of Australia." and that's the key to going about your own business. Islam religion and anyone associated with the " My god is the only one type" are in everyone's faces.

If the under-bellied types had a brain, you would keep what ever world you think you rule in, quite and under the radar. See! if a race can be the quite achievers, no-one will notice them, like the Catholic church:) or any other organization with a hidden agenda:)

See, the more noise one makes, the more attention you pull.

Just a though:)

All the best

LEAP

One of the main problems is that MC is a free running operation in so as much as that no-one has a reason to become an Australian.

The Muslim are out for world domination, by deception, by the good guy / bad guy method. Is there a 'moderate' muslim out there?.

Is there a country involving muslims that is not in a terrible state of disrepair or anarchy.

It seems that as religions go, most are now being held responsible for any acts that are being done in the name of their religion, maybe, its time for the muslim religion to start being responsible and start making recompense for the acts of their anarchists, maybe, then the "moderate muslims" will start acting in a way that is acceptable for the intergration to a 'Multicultural Society'.

The Asians have been here for years and most are still not intergrating, go to cabramatta in sydney, and see how many shop signs you can read, then go to auburn in sydney and try to by a ham salad roll, NOT A CHANCE, where is the MC in these areas.

It takes more than just Australians to make a multicultural society, it takes all parties to participate, if people complain about something that is not done their way,then, WHO IS NOT PARTICIPATING , if you want to go to another country because the one you left is not worth living in or worth trying to make better then why try to change the NEW one to what you left, stupid, stupid, stupid.

Self praise never ever will be a recommendation.
It in fact is a tool used by under achievers.
Each of us are able to be judged by what we say here.
And if you look it is not rare to see some who appear in some posts not to be in command of their thoughts.
That both this symptom,and a braggart like self confidence, can be seen by posters should surprise no one.
It is taken for granted, that as an older Australian my combative Friend at least, I am unaware and maybe lost for my thoughts.
Sydney has a MIDDLE EASTERN crime group with in its police force.
It is very active, our city's streets have seen gunshots fired three nights in a row.
Past events saw police and their stations targeted, young sportsmen MURDERED while unarmed by gun shots.
The term F*()& THE AUSSIES ARE WE ALL RIGHT USED.
Yes not every one, not a whole but too many.
MickC do you give me the right to an opinion?
QL I find no reason to change my mind,this racist old man, no dream, would love to show you me as I am.
But I do not understand why? your fan club is smaller than your ego.
A racist act? those young Muslims in my post history,sacked for miss behavior.
Transported from the north coast to their family's free? I lent them just under $1000 and lived in fear I would be unable to pay my rates for two weeks one day,they paid me back.

Netherlands says 'no', Australia says 'yes, more'
Most Australians do say no but they're overruled by democratic minority groups.

Yes, that darned democracy sure gets in the way doesn't it?

Individual and Morganzola,
Democracy is not the problem, its us and our weak politicians who allow the minority groups to thumb their noses at our laws and social standards, that is the problem. Few other countries would allow the Lebs to heckle the cops the way they do or allow blatent breaches of the FGM laws.

MickC,
I maintain that we are not multicultural, we are multi-racial but our basic foundations of our culture are still British based and that has not changed. We may turn a blind eye to some ethnic activities but we do not have seperate laws for different ethnics, such as India does.

If I had my way i would simply stop importing those groups that cause us grief. I don't much mind if various groups tend to congragate together, what I do mind is blatent contempt for our laws and social standards. We should insist on respect for our culture or simply stop importing those groups that do not show some respect. After all they are here at our invitation.

The word multicultural is a misnomer, multi-racial is far more accurate.

Democracy Morgonzola/Individual is not minority's over ruling majority's.
I agree with Banjo here.
Unfortunate majority supports us too.
Interesting statement on radio Australia today Bob Carr, one of our best, said some interesting and informed things.
I rather think most who think views contrary to their own are racist over value their understanding of the problem.

Another shootup of two houses yesterday.
They can't even get the right houses.
Too much cousin marriage I think.
One was owned by a gang member, but was rented out to a moslem woman.

She has had to move out immediately in case they come back.

Democracy Morgonzola/Individual is not minority's over ruling majority's.

we all know that's the theory but it doesn't actually operate that way & that is the problem. Democracy as good as it sounds is also the ideal political setup for misuse/abuse of & by authority. Is the majority of australian citizens really in favour of selling off so much of the land & infrastructure to overseas interests ? Or sending so much needed funding to countries with no accountability as to where these monies go ? I doubt it. By all means let overseas companies lease infrastructure & land & supply goods & materials to countries which need help but do not throw good money which is needed here at corrupt systems. Ask the democratic majority which provides that money how they feel. The same goes for wholesale immigration but we'd better do it before we're outnumbered like the Fijians. . I'm confident we'd get a different answer that by asking idealistic academics & bureaucrats who do not contribute but only dictate to us.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/police-commissioner-andrew-scipione-calls-for-new-powers-to-force-women-to-remove-their-veils/story-e6freuy9-1226086279235
This link may have appeared in any number of threads.
It is for Csteele and a few who talk of those of us who have concerns as racist.
In a way, strange but very true, we, the so called racists, are having our right to speak subjected to attacks on free speech, look back,in 3 threads, see the immovable defense for this woman.
And see the insulting baiting of us racists, beware of the beast, PC it lives!