I think people are really confused as to what being racist is. I have been called racist by many on other threads and I dont agree. I believe that being racist is believing that your culture is superior and should rule others, regardless of what country you are in, and actively trying to change things so as to achieve that goal without concern or regard to how it impacts on others and how it makes them feel.

If I went to a Muslim country I would respect their religion, tradition and ways. If a Muslim goes to a Western Country they should do the same. The fact that they don’t means that they are racists.

When a member of our family fell in love with a Muslim and decided to marry the pressure from the elders of the family to turn their back and cut them out of the family was extreme. I refused as did my husband. We are not racist. Not only did we refuse to cut them out, when we had functions we invited everybody. At first none of the family turned up because we had invited this member of the family and Muslim partner. It didn’t deter us, function after function we invited all our family, regardless of religion, those who choose not to come, then it was their choice. My husband and I did not want to teach our children to be racists and we will not discriminate against somebody solely because of their religious beliefs. Eventually our stubbornness won and now we all get together as a family.

Do I sound racist to you? On the weekend my daughter had a birthday party, three of her friends slept over, two Asians and one Australian. I cared for them, fed them and they slept with my children in their beds. Is that what racists do?

Just because I don’t agree with racists coming to this country in order to change our culture and ways so that they can obtain power and rule doesn’t mean that I am the racist.

Interesting point Jolanda and worth exploring.

Proposition 1. My culture is superior therefore it should 'rule'.
This attitude could be held by any people or ethnic group. If it is, then it is the seed for eventual destruction.

Proposition 2. My Culture is the prevailing one, our country and institutions are built on it. Therefore it should rule.

Holding to propositon 2, (as I do) does not mean a rejection of all that is noble in other cultures. But it does mean a pecking order, it does mean that the national fabric is woven in threads of that dominant/prevailing culture, and it also means that changes to that fabric should be by small threads of a different color, not HUGE SWATHES of contrary thread.
The concept of a 'prevailing' or dominant culture means just that. Pretty much the whole of life will be flavored by it. This important message should be communicated clearly to any would be immigrant and especially assylum seekers.

NOTE CAREFULLY !
We offer 'assylum' IN TERMS OF OUR CULTURE not the one you bring with you.

So, I'm quite comfortable in saying that "Anglo/Celt" culture is the prevailing one, and should be, with minor tinkering on the edges as we benefit from the strengths of immigrant culture.
Over time, the whole culture will probably gradually morph more and more into something uniquely "Australian" and this is as it should be.

We will know when we have arrived there when people stop referring to themselves as 'Italian Australians' and 'Greek Australians' etc.. they will simply be 'Aussies'.

The Japanese and the French stand out as cultures that have a sense of superiority but I do not think that is racism. The Serbian treatment of Muslims in Bosnia and the treatment of black Africans by the Muslim Sudanese is racism as was the Nazi treatment of Jews. I don’t think there is much serious racism in Australia and to be labelled a racist here carries connotation of an attempted insult by some marginalised group that does not fit in. We have our share of these groups who cling to cultural or religious baggage they brought with them to Australia.

IF THEY ARE GOING TO BE AUSTRALIANS THEY NEED TO CAST OFF THIS BAGGAGE AND NOT BECOME AN UNEMPLOYABLE, NON-ENGLISH SPEAKING UNDERCLASS WHO CLING TO CENTRE LINK DEPENDANCY WHILE MOOLIGHTING IN CRIME AND INSURANCE FRAUD.

Racism to me means defining people in terms of the arbritary groups they belong to, instead of as individuals. It is the failure to recognise that there is more variation WITHIN any of these groups than there is between any of them.

It is when we stop seeing people as individuals (see: above) that we're in trouble.

Racism is when you unfairly discriminate against a person based on race, ethnicity, religion, culture etc. It does not apply to those who criticise cultures for the actions or beliefs that are part of that culture. It does apply to those who make assumptions about a person's beliefs based on sterotypes of their culture.

http://ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1172737650

Freediver, the interesting thing about your point is that when a minority group discriminates against the majority on those very grounds, and the majority seeks to address this 'racist' behaviour, the Left trots out its 'Your a pack of racists' against the majority.

It happens as predictably as day following night.
cheers

I think it's when you willingly and knowingly discriminate against all people of a particular group on the basis of the actions of a tiny minority.

Some people take a stand first and desperately look for ongoing justification afterwards.

Jolanda,
Good choice of subject as it is interesting in the differing views of people. I agree with your definition. Those that believe that others may be superior of inferior because of their ethnicity are racist. The opposition to, or the forbidding of intermarriage is the real test.

i do not believe that recognising different cultures and the ability to come to mutural respect and understanding is racist.

I had an expererience when I gave a female idiginous collegue a lift home & during our converstion she said ".............is playing in our community tonight, you coming ?" I had met the performer on another occasion and he didn't impress me at all with his racist remarks. I answered to my collegue "no, I'm not going to see this racist ". In utter astonishment she looked at me and said " Racist ?, but, he, he is black ?
Unfortunately, because career do-gooders have warped the general perception of this ugly attitude far too many in our society have been made to believe that racism is a 'whites only' thing. The simple-minded uni drop-outs are unable to distinguish between attitude and rasicm. If I told an anglo-saxon that his attitude sucks then I would cop either strong resentment or a whack. If I told a non anglo-saxon the exact same words for the exact same reason then I would be accused of racism. It has absolutely zilch to do with one's complexion. to accuse others of rasicm for one's own shortcomings is the height of hypocrisy.

BD, this demonstrates that not only is there real racism, but that it is used as a label and as an attack. Its another form of discrimination, though not racism itself - anyone got a name for it? Really, its the equivalent of a toddler throwing a tantrum when they dont get their own way - calling mummy or daddy a poopy-head falls right into the same category.

I see racism as a just another form of the tribalism that permeates most facets of our society.

If you use football as an analogy, then I may support my local team for no reason other that "it represents the area in which I live, therefore it is must be the best". This would limit my enjoyment of football to watching my team beat all the others.

On the other hand, if I enjoyed watching football but supported no team in particular, then my scope for personal enjoyment would not be so limited. Now extend this concept to skin colour, political beliefs and religion.

Humans are tribal creatures, no matter how much anyone denies it or tries to change it. As the races developed in isolation from each other, it is obvious that, from first contact, each race will be suspicious of another.

"Racist" is a term used by non-Whites (and PC or Leftist Whites) to supposedly insult someone, when they have a different point of view or when there is no valid argument to their statements. Therefore, if called a racist, I don't care, and simply reply, "That's right".

In a previous discussion thread, I was criticised for stating that White Pride was not racist, but only an indication of pride for your own people. The same criticiser saw nothing wrong with black pride or gay pride as these people were "oppressed".

I prefer my own kind but I also have friends from India, Japan, Singapore, Lebanon and Melbourne. So am I a racist?

When I visit other countries, I abide by their laws and respect their customs. I expect any foreigners to do the same here.

Racism means ANGER. In fact the human condition is based on anger. It ought to be called ANGERISM because for the most part people
treat each other badly. It is afterwards that we use the excuse
of RACISM.
People hate other people. It's because we are all underpaid
and under worked. The idea that someone from another country
can come here and get a better job makes the locals angry.
So we need to ask why do people get angry?

No doubt “racist” is an overused word. Originally it meant a person who believed there was a biological difference between races and, therefore, one race was better than another. That whole “master race” crap or the ever-amusing “social Darwinism” advanced by (supposedly) superior Brits justifying the subjugation of half the globe.

These days it seems to be trotted out in almost time there is dispute between cultures or religions. Most often it seems to a pseudonym of ‘prejudiced”. I guess if you are going to go name calling it’s better to use a bigger gun.

It’s used almost as much as ‘Lefty’ ;)

So comments like “UNEMPLOYABLE, NON-ENGLISH SPEAKING UNDERCLASS WHO CLING TO CENTRE LINK DEPENDANCY WHILE MOOLIGHTING IN CRIME AND INSURANCE FRAUD” aren’t racist. There’s no hint of racial overtone there.

I mean the comments are:
crass;
stupid;
narrow-minded;
offensive;
irrelevant;
moronic
prejudiced
..(I could go on).. but they are definitely not racist

One thing many people seem to forget is that, as the dominant culture in Australia and the ones with all the power, it is natural that almost all of the friction for change is going to be directed at us.

It’s not a conspiracy. It’s just common sense.

As the dominant culture, there are two things that I tink we need to understand.

Firstly, change is inevitable and rather that flat out resisting it, we need to channel it in positive directions. Western/Christian values don’t answer everything and we can benefit from the experiences of other cultures. Digging your heels in and refusing to budge just causes the pressure to build so that when change does happen, its faster, more destructive and generally bloodier. And we usually wind up worse off (eg: the Reign of Terror after the French Revolution).

Secondly, we need to understand that criticisms of Australia raised by other cultures don’t have to be taken personally or (sometimes) even seriously. We don’t have to change our core Australian-ness for others. The laws that protect them protect us as well. Shari’a cannot come to Australia unless we let it!

racism is tribal territorial hostility.

The world needs to learn that if they want world peace you cannot have huge tribes laying claim to the same land.

Mass immigration (such as the Jews in Palestine) without intergration = WAR and ethnic conflict

Intergration = Peace

Immigration should only ever be allowed if strong intergration polices are put in place and abided by by all the newcomers and the original inhabitants.

What happened in Germany with the non intergration of the Jews and Germans is A lesson in what causes ethnic violence. The Germans feared the loss of their country to the millions and million of Jews who were taking control of the German business economy. Why dont we heed that lesson.

Jolanda
I don’t think you can classify hating Muslims as racism -since Islam is multiracial.Racism is to adversely judge/treat someone because of their racial characteristics.

It's an interesting reflection on society’s (or at least some in society) thinking that while it is very much taboo to discriminate against a person on the basis of race ( & upheld by law & periodic campaigns ) the same seriousness is not shown to discrimination on the basis of height, hair colour, lack of good looks etc…which is even more pervasive.

If we were apply the same yardstick used to “prove” racism & sexism.
Wouldn’t we be running studies to determine why redheads make up 5% of the population but hold only hold 1% of CEO positions ?

Echoing Pragma’s & David’s comments.:
It’s noteworthy that racism has been almost institutionalised as white on black racism.If a third world country runs riot & attacks whites -its nationalism & not just OK, but worthy of support. If whites run riot & attack non-whites, it’s racism -& there is no excuse.We also see it in that popular catch-cry -REVERSE RACISM- which seems to imply that real racism is white on black & anything else is an aberration.

Horus. I didn't classify hating Muslims as racism. I classified those who believe that they are superior to others and and a result TREAT others with disrepsect and actively try to change things to suit them without regard to how it impacts on others, even if they are in their country, as racists.

Muslim was just an example as at the moment there are serious issues there. For sure the Aboriginal people would call white Australians racists.

The system is very discriminative. Whilst you are not allowed to discriminate because of race, gender, sex, homosexuality and a host of other things and you are 'sort of' protected by law, you are not protected by law and you are allowed to discriminate against someone if you believe that they are superior or gifted. There is no law protecting those who are seen as superior, you can treat them unfairly and unjustly and nobody is required to care, they are seen as already possessing more than their share. I know this for a fact.

Think about the implications of that and how it also feeds the Tall Poppy Syndrome.

"I didn't classify hating Muslims as racism."

if you hate someone for something they did to you etc, thats ok

but if you say "hating Muslims"

THAT IS RACISM IN ITS WORST FORM.

The main thrust of racism is to create divisions within society and break up any human and class solidarity. As well, to stifle any sensitivity and compassion towards other nationalities who may be fleeing poverty and overseas government repression. In society, a small elite RULE, make all the decisions, pick the politicians and grab most of the wealth. This can only be accomplished by promoting divisions, for example, the politicians are presently promoting anti-moslem hatred. Ireland is an example of colonial rule and plunder using religious divisions that are consciously cultivated including a border dividing the north from the south. Even the IRA indirectly bolstered and helped British rule by promoting a nationalist creed. Wages were kept down for Irish workers and they picked up the tab.
Nationalism and racism have their roots in the nation state system whereby other races and nations are promoted in a reactionary and derogatory way as 'different.' As well, it is a tool used to scapegoat a layer in society in order to distract attention away from what the politicians are thieving and doing to the social infrastructure. Howards 'national values' is to groom a layer of youth to be used for cannon fodder in his "indefinite wars in the pacific region" as well as, Iraq and soon Iran. All the gains workers won was through uniting their struggles internationally. That almost every defeat inflicted on workers over the whole of the last century has revolved around nationalism.

Technically - muslims are a religion, not a race, so hating them is another form of prejudice. Religionist or something.

That doesn't make it any more acceptable however.

Horus, love the analogy re redheads. Goes to show that stats can prove anything.

Tootsie, look at it another way, and try to understand why some of the mistrust and dislike comes about. If I were attacked by a big man with tattoo's, wouldnt you say that it was understandable that I was pretty wary of big men with tattoos in the future? It would be an emotive reaction rather than a rational one, but understandable in the circumstances? So its not that much of a stretch to say if a member of my group (be it friends family or even race) were attacked by a muslim, then it might be understandable that muslims werent my favourite group of people, or that I was wary of them. I'm not in either case saying that it makes it ok, just trying to show how such a mindset can come about - its not necessarily that we are "evil" people for not liking another group of people.

Wobbles:
"I think it's when you willingly and knowingly discriminate against all people of a particular group on the basis of the actions of a tiny minority."

Wobbles I completely agree with this.

I'll add on to that,when you pretend that racism is something else and you make-up excuses for it. I think everyone has racist tendencies but people who try to deny it are comfortable being racist because they don't see anything wrong with their attitude. Just about everyone has something racist about them. I try not to be prejudice or racist towards other people. Especially when I'm in my conscious mind.

Country Gal,

totally understand what you are saying. There is bad and good in every culture and religion

Amel nationalism and racism is promoted in every country. But to understand it you have to go to its underlying source; where and why it originated and who benefits? It is certainly not inherant nor a natural occurrence within people, for the founding of the nation state is fairly recent, in this country a little over a century ago. Behind the so called 'national interest' lie the banks, oil cartels, capital, and big business who all operate globally! At one time the founding of the nation state was progressive but that time passed. It ceased to be when the world exploded into the first world war, which marked the end of any progressive national solution. Today, the situation is rendered even starker because of the globalization of production making the seperate nation states more obsolete and reactionary. The only alternative to nationalism is internationalism.

Tootsie, I think you are racist towards me.

jolanda,

nope not racist against anybody, I do like some people more than others though. i dislike people who put people down and tell stories to suit their agenda, but make out that they are good to the bone.

dont you have a hunger strike to get to.

Tootsie, using your criteria you must'nt like yourself very much.

Tootsie, you seem to hate me, not for anything that I did to you but for what I stand for and believe in. That is racism.

Jolanda: "...you seem to hate me, not for anything that I did to you but for what I stand for and believe in. That is racism."

Um, no Jolanda. You seem a bit confused - a prejudice or antipathy towards someone because of their politics and/or beliefs is not racism. As others have pointed out, 'racism' involves attributing certain innate attributes to individuals who are classified as belonging to a particular 'racial' group - however that is defined by the racist who is doing the attributing.

I agree that Islamophobia, homophobia and other examples of social incompetence are similar structurally to racism, in that those who discriminate against other people on such grounds tend to do so mindlessly, hatefully, vocally and repetitively.

But that doesn't mean that a mindless hatred or fear of Islam is racism in itself - although I've noticed that most Islamophobes in this forum tend to also express racist ideas, and are often homophobic as well. Some of them also seem to have very strange ideas about food.

Go figure :

Racism is in my view very near evil, all forms of it, but I too am called a racist more than often.
This week in rural NSW I saw racism, and its user was both unaware he was acting in a racist way and from a minority.
A group had gone to a services club to watch one of the best athletes this country ever produced fight, most in truth went to see this great sportsman beaten, me included.
However we watched Lionel Rose in the crowd and an outbreak of Goodonya mate came from us and almost every one on seeing him.
The fight from first blow was in the hands of maybe the best fighter in the world, for sure the best in Australia.
A person in the crowd began calling for the opponent to be killed and constantly shouted he had no heart.
At the end of the fight a very few shouted for joy while most just trudged out in silence.
The gentle man who thought the opponent had no heart stayed at the door and informed those of us not applauding we acted like racists.
Racism is a complex issue and we need to understand it in all its form,
My post may be deleted but we still need to both understand it is always evil and sometimes it is ,thankfully, a minority view.

Well C J Morgan many of the Muslims beliefs and ways are Political and when people get an attitude towards them about it or dislike them because of it they scream racism. What is the difference?

Well Jolanda, I can say that I dont hate you. I dont know you. I guess that the FACT that you LIED on a previous thread makes me believe that you LIE about everything. Your excuse that "you dont want everybody to go to the butcher, so you wont name him, or that I am going to put the heavy on him" really says alot about you.

I can see how your outspokeness and personality wouldnt win you many friends.

You put down every profession, every goverment body. the fact is that you have one THEME, and you ajust every agruement to suit that THEME. It doesnt work.

Tell the truth.. There was no butcher, you made it up to suit your theme. that muslim have more rights and that if you and your children where muslim, the government would have listened. TELL THE TRUTH

Issue. If I disagree with Muslims because of what they stand for and believe in, because I believe it can impact negatively on Australia and by extension it’s people, I am called a racist and if I say or do anything the Muslim person is protected by law and I can be accused of racism and made accountable and have to pay if they complain.

Now see if a Muslim dislikes me because of what I stand for and believe in it is not called racism, it is called prejudice and prejudice is not against the law so therefore they can discriminate against me and say what they want about me without any repercussions from the law and I have no avenues to even lodge a complaint.

That is a serious concern as more often than not the issues are political and not based on colour of skin or race and the beliefs are really just culture and Laws.

It is discriminatory and extremely stupid to only protect one group and not all people. At the end of the day we are all humans and we are all as capable as being as nasty as each other.

Tootsie, problem is, that your negative attitude towards me commenced before I even said anything about the butcher so how does that fit?

Yes I do believe that if my family were Muslim the Anti-Discrimination board would have investigated our complaints instead of refusing to look at them. That would have meant that my children wouldn’t have had to go through 6 years of victimization, neglect, bullying and hell and that would have meant that I wouldn’t have been vilified and defamed. It doesn’t matter what race you are, every race/culture should agree that allegations that involve children should be properly investigated so that children are protected.

“If a Muslim dislikes me for what I stand for it is not called racism”

Yolanda,

I totally agree with your article. I grew up in North Queensland and many times during my life I have been subjected to racist abuse by the Aborigines here but the Aborigines think only the whites are racist.

Many years ago when my children were small we went to a Christmas party in the local gardens where Santa came to hand out presents to the children. We were one of the last groups to pack up and leave. We had noticed some aborigines who had come to sit at some tables nearby. They started to sing out some very nasty racist abuse.

I could name quite a few of these incidents in my lifetime in this town and I know a lot of other white people here who have been subjected to the same abuse.

Lately they have taken to operating in gangs. They bashed a family man with two Children having a night out with his wife to the point of death not long ago. And its not and isolated incident. They usually say something filthy to the man’s wife or girlfriend and when he objects they use it as an excuse to bash him.

They also hang around local shopping centres and steal purses. Ocassionally there is a white culprit but mostly it’s the black groups. Then they accuse the police of racism because there are so many aborigines in prison.

Sorry about going off on a tangent about the serial killer thing .
I don’t really know the history of what you’ve been through.

Racism? last week a young man from another race than mine had reason to come to my door, he on seeing the best mate I ever had a small dog informed me he could not enter my home.
May be its not racism, but its end result is devision and confrontation, on my side at least.
Am I then racist?
I am unsure but remain unsure how many generations must pass before it is no longer a problem.

Betty for things to change we need to remove Racism from the Anti-discrimination laws and make it so that any 'discrimination' against anybody that is fulled by prejudice and served with malice and spite is against the law. If this is a truly multicultural country like some really want it to be then we should all be seen as equal and equally protected by the Law. Everybody should be protected against discrimination not just those that are of darker skin or who are of certain religions.

If this is a free country and we have freedom of choice then we should be free to choose our friends and/or like or dislike whom we please for whatever reason. It is not what we think of other people but how we treat other people that should be the determining factor and there are no laws that deal with how we should treat each other or that we even show respect. Even bullying isn't against the Law.

At the moment some can treat others like dirt and those on the receiving end have no rights or means of redress and/or protection.

Sharkfin.

The issue with racism and Aboriginal people is similar to that of stance of the Muslim people. Aboriginal people also tend to scream Racism over everything. They don’t stop to think that maybe it isn’t their colour that people have a problem with; and that more often than not it is their attitude, actions and lifestyle. That isn't to say that there aren't people who are prejudiced against those of darker skin as they certainly do exist, but because there is so much mixing it is only a minority. People have a problem with people's behaviour and attitude because it negatively impacts them directly or indirectly.

It’s like the Mundine fight the other night. Lots of people are disgusted with Mundines attitude. His colour has never really been an issue; it is his attitude that is the problem. It wouldn’t have mattered what background he was; anybody with that attitude isn’t going to gain sympathy and make many friends. The Aboriginal people of course scream Racism because he is Aboriginal and many Muslims would probably say it was racism because he is Muslim. Thing was it is neither; he just has a big mouth and comes across as very rude and disrespectful. People don’t like that.

I guess I can understand why some Aboriginals have an attitude towards Australians but I can't seem to get my head around some Muslims attitude to Australians especially given that Australia has taken them in in order to help.

A very good post jolanda that last one hits the issues on the head.
Our gentle man fighter,in a country that worships its sporting hero's has few friends.
Nothing to do with race or religion, if the gentle man rode the next ten Melbourne cup winers, won every boxing title in every devision in the world he would still have few friends, nothing to do with racism.
Victim mentality from minority's who in fact act very much in a raciest way hurts only them, be it some within the Muslim faith or our first Australians.

well I keep to using my 1950s dictionary, not because I dont accept that language changes but so I can see things without media/polly spin

the words racism and racist did not exist then [fortunately] and it is illuminating to see that apart from the title ["racial discrimination"] the act itself simply uses the phrase "because of race"

when I go to the dict to see what that means there it is far more global than ethnicity, and in fact "the race of men" is mentioned [as being far more obvious because man has penis and woman does not] but SMALL ethic differences [eg people pray to different "gods"] dont get a gernsey

so good question by the OP - but pity everyone went for the popular media definition

as Hitler said

"it is fortunate for governments the people do not think"

Divorce Doctor. People are not being taught to think, they are being taught what to think.

Correct - that is the whole "raison d'etre" of Political Correctness

It gets the Mushrooms "thinking" what the masters WANT them to "think"

more to do with robots - the same robots who vote [as Hitler well knew]

A logical approach to this question would be as follows:

Genetically, all members of the (one) human race are 99.99% exactly the same. The genetic variations which result in physical differences between any given individual such as sex, skin tone, sexual orientation, brow ridge, nose size, height...whatever - are as minute as the unseen variations (for example, there is zero correlation between the genetics that determine your appearance and the genetics that determine your IQ. This is dramatically simplified for the purpose of this post, of course). This means you are as genetically similar to someone of African, Asian or European descent as you are to your neighbour - even if it doesn't look like it.

Racism, then, must be the ignorance of these facts. It assumes that differences in values and customs are not due to the circumstances and location of ones birth and upbringing, but instead inherent within different gene pools. Of course any basic high school understanding of biology will tell you this is not the case. So why do so many fear those who appear different?

Well, in evolutionary terms - fear of the unknown was a genetic trait that obviously proved to be advantageous, those with more fear were more likely to survive to reproductive age, and thus pass on said fear genes (in ALL humans). Today, the fear is irrational (and rarely useful as a survival tool), but still quite powerful, often even more powerful than that of logical deduction.

You fear them, they fear you. The only solution is for all to forget the concept of 'them' and 'you', and come to terms with the unavoidable fact that we are all part of only one race - the human race. It's not easy - fighting millions of years of inherited fear. But it is the only solution we've got.