"Health Minister Nicola Roxon is accusing big tobacco of launching a smear campaign against her after it was revealed she had courted a tobacco company for donations.

In 2005 Ms Roxon's office sent letters asking three executives at Philip Morris for donations, a year after Labor banned cigarette companies from its donor list."

"This just blows the minister's credibility," opposition health spokesman Peter Dutton told ABC Television.

"Nicola Roxon has been an absolute hypocrite."

Yet another case from Labor of "do what I say, not what I do."

I put this question to every fair minded conservative voter.
But first say this Roxon was quite wrong to ask for those to pay to attend her fund raiser.
Now my question.
Is it more hypocritical, to in 1999 go to a tennis match with tickets paid for by a tobacco company, before any ban on such things.
To ask them to pay and attend a fund raiser, remember they did not come or pay.
Or to except millions of dollars over some years from tobacco company's, AS ONLY LIBERALS AND Nats PARTY DO?
SM it is practice in the industry you tell us you are in, to take free lunches tickets to sporting matches and Christmas gifts, any comments?

she actually has the nerve to call her
HER invitation to HER 1500 per plate fundraiser
an investmernt...lol

they of course DECLINED
boy talk about a woman scorned...lol

how about here FREE tennis game..!
paid for..by biG tobacco

hypo.crete..like excrete
this is what we get when we make
elect..percription jockies.. of big pharma..lol
into left wing nany state...govt minesters

its so pathetic defending the indefensable
after you been slagging off at tonies party

it touches on cred-ability

noting she got big pharma
a nice new subsidised drug
nicoten subsidy...well done ...a big win for big pharma

OH the karma

now lets await the next BIG idea
how much..has she TOOK from THEM*

how much has BIG PHARMA given [invested]..in her

and her lousy [party of sellouts
who ..soldout..to the biggest donation
making their 'investments'

or those with the loudest voice in the sellout media
or paid advertising...getting cash grants from govt
that return 100 fold..their INVESTMENT*

Nicola Roxon, has been caught in a lie. She has been ragging on the liberals for taking donations from Big tobacco, whilst she has been guilty of the same thing.

Being only a little guilty is like being a little pregnant.

MS this is yet another example of the hypocrisy of the socialists (history is littered with the corpses of those form the left who died chocking on a lie)

Doubtless, I will now be hounded by some for daring to criticise the left, who are a walking examples of sanctimonious ignoramus.

Cuddles all around,Col and your side kick are both aware Roxon took nothing, not a cent.
And both are aware, OUG may not be, Conservatives in this country took 95%$ of the total Tobacco election donations ,a small Pacific country took the other 5%.
So if Roxon did great evil/wrong , in inviting them to come, and they did not come, did not donate how great is the sin of conservative party who take millions of dollars.
Further as both gentlemen know for some time in the debate about plain packaging Anthony Abbott was more likely to side with the tobacco industry.
Only the fact a brave few in his front bench said health first.
If not for that today this country would see a former Minister for Health side with those tobacco firms.
Leaving questions such as was that in return for donations or a genuine consideration of health effects bought on by some thing.
To his credit Shadow Minister has a much higher and classier level of insult,I congratulate him on that.
Colin, if you and I go way back in our post history we have both been unkind me to you, you to every one.
I do honestly believe, in relation to this I have only ever counter punched in this matter.
Colin I regard your constant referring to me as a Socialist and my party too is at best, a school yard tactic , kindergarten in fact.
I am in no way changed the extremes of politics is not a place for my support.
Colin I can if you wish, put a few jibes and verbal jabs together for you.
Sadly I would not have to resort to the fantasy stuff seen here.

belly quote..."'..both aware
Roxon took nothing,..not a cent."""

at 1500 a plate...WHO GETS THE BENIFIT?
who got elected..payed for addverts..how to vote paper's
that helped rocks-on..get into POWER

SHE GOT THE BENIFIT of the watching tennis
from a box too...

[tell me where is a minester
SERVING THE PEOPLE..by watching a tennis game
from AN EXPENSIVE SEAT?..

BOUGHT and paid for
...by AN INDUSTRY..she accuses tony..of taking their bribes from?

if your going to say
ONE IS DIRTY..but the other is clean?
[tell him..he is dreaming]

""Conservatives in this country took 95%$
of the total Tobacco election donations""

and others had sex for love
but if you got a gift..thats prostitution..!

""So if Roxon did great evil/wrong""

if the rukles are thieving means thieving a cookie or a car
then SHE HAS DONE THE CRIME..[ie is pregnant...ie is a twofaced KETTLE
[with a pot belly]...simply making excuse..for lying

""plain packaging Anthony Abbott
was more likely to side with the tobacco industry.""

mate thats a lie
dont make me defend him
he put then LIES on tobacco packetts
[you know the eyes/frost bitten toes...
the methodone/diabetic drugaddict..with rotted teeth

THATS ALL TONY
your confused belly
tony hates us more than labrattters do

""I do honestly believe,""
i know you do
im not trying to be hard on you
but i hate tony...

mate..really hate him
but hate lies....

even lies from those not tony
even worse...and there are so many LIES*

too many..!

and taxing by lies..
i detest..*EVEN worse*

""in relation to this
I have only ever counter punched in this matter.""

yet begin many other topic's
but mate this debate is about facts and LIES*

near everything is based on lies
ONLY 1000..[yet EVERYBODY WILL PAY..!
even if govt GIVES you compensation..WE ALL GET A BILL
[not JUST 1000]....mate 1000 is a lIE..!

just as her taking ADVANTAGES from big tobacco
HOW ABOUT HERE GIFTS FROM BIG PHARMA?

thats the REAL QUESTION
she got them a subsidy..lol...on nicoteen
a Poisen..!...[payed/SUBSIDISED by your tax dollars and mine]

WHAT GIFTS
DID BIG FPHARMA GIVE ROCKssON
to get a poisen SUBSIDISED

or for that matter ..what greenie groups
gave gifts for the carbon tax scam

what miners gave gifts to not get a big new tax
in fact get a refund..on ropyalties colected by the state
[mate right there is a huge scam]

but let hear what gifts
got faerming excluded from carbon tax

or what gifts helped make the fuel subsidy
of 12 billion to farmers/miners?

they are a lot of scabs
[in the union meaning of scab]
ie betraying the workers...

with gifts to them..and their mates
[and tax spin lies..for the rest of us]

actually when I think of having a "dinner" with Nicola Roxon I immediately think of a Big Mac and sticking the paper bag overher head

Like most socialists, she is from the fast food section of culinery fair....

cheap, greasy ....
and just looking at her is fattening

but in all truth, I would rather pay %1500 not to watch her masticate

OUG please keep up Friend.
She NEVER GOT the money, it is common practice for politicians to invite business people to lunches and $1500 is less than it often is.
She got no benefits from it.
John Winston Howard actually used Kirabilly house,in Sydney, for a $10.000 a head fund raiser.
I did not join in the hew and cry, if people want to give in that way, attempting to buy influence ok at least its not hidden.
OUG is you total blindness to conservatives excepting MILLIONS OF DOLLARS because you smoke and support them or considered opinion.
Colin sorry bloke I am a sports fan, but I weary of our verbal tennis.
Beating you in straight sets is boring.
What say you do some research,find something based on truth we can hit a few back and forward on.
Say ABBOTT having every point of view possible in print on carbon tax?

The actions of lib and labor governments against e-cigarettes would get a big thumbs up from tobacco and pharmaceutical companies I would think. What did they do to win such favour?

To accuse the ALP of hypocrisy on this issue is to ignore all the basic tenets of those miserable lying Tories with their dirty tricks campaigns who put their own interests above those of the nation - power at any price.

They eventually lost when Howard placed his personal interests even above those of his party.

Gillard is now branded a liar but somehow O'Farrell is "acting responsibly" when he goes back on election promises.

Interesting to see Truss now whining about the abysmal conditions of the Indonesian live export facilities when he was the Minister who threw millions at the MLA to fund those contentious torture boxes in the first place.

And wasn't it Abbott who suggested that you shouldn't necessarily believe what he says unless it's in writing?

And so it goes on.

Wobbles a well written and supported by truth post.
It is time for a report on Australian Politics, I offer this thread as all the evidence needed.
Supported in Parliament by the front bench of this Conservative rabble Colin the unhappy and SM are Representative of the party they serve.
It is true,that some very silly actions and people have hamstrung the ALP/Government.
Polls however do not reflect just how untrue conservative claims sometimes are, and just how truly STUPID some actions they propose are.
Never forget,Tony Abbott is on record, he said he put political PRAGMATISM first.
He an ex health minister,with no room for doubt, intended to side with Tobacco here.
Brave and honest politicians on his front bench ,ONLY stopped that.
95% of Tobacco electorally funding has gone, for more than a decade, to Liberal/Nationals coalition!
If, mark my words, Labor lost support of the independents today.
Abbott would enter Government with a chop shop wreck of policy's he would dump, not be able to get HIS OWN PARTY to support.
We stand convicted of haveing each side REFUSE change based on the fact each thinks the other side is ruled by a fool.
Sadly they are both right.
Charges here against Roxon are feeble, true but feeble and ignore Abbott's proven criminal neglect of public health.

Belly

When is it that we can tell if Abbott is telling the truth? When he makes off the cuff remarks or is it when his comments have been scripted? Can't remember, either way his behaviour pales any faux pas committed by Roxon. And as for acceptance of Tobacco Industry donations - we already know which party receives that, therefore Shadow Minister's attempt to create a storm out of Roxon is pointless as were Col Rouge's comments gratuitous.

This is the price we pay for freedom of speech...

Slightly dated but there is some info on tobacco industry political donations at http://www.tobaccoinaustralia.org.au/chapter-10-tobacco-industry/10-22-donations-to-political-parties

I regard to the topic. On the one hand the Lib's and Nat's are open about accepting political donations from the tobacco industry, one the other hand if the claim is correct Roxon tried to get money from them while publically her party is saying they don't do that kind of thing.

The fact that the tobacco companies declined does not alter the intent.

Reminds me of a religious fundy with a jar of personal lubricant and a dead internet connection.

R0bert

Robert

Very funny, but you are aware that Roxon is campaigning for plain packs of cigarettes?

Of course Tobacco Industries have never tried to smear anyone ever, have they?

If you can't trust the cigarette companies who can you trust?

I did add a proviso in my comment about the claims being true.

I think that the focus on the tobacco industry is a diversion. It's the whole concept of political donations that's the problem. I'd rather see them take donations from tobacco companies than property developers (make your own list of suspect donor's).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_donations_in_Australia

There are all sort's of dodges used to avoid disclosing who is making the donations and regardless of disclosure there is a clear conflict of interest (that includes funds from unions) in political parties accepting donations and elected representatives making decisions which might impact on their donor's fortunes.

R0bert

Totally agree with you Robert.

However it is industries like Tobacco, Coal, Uranium, Oil whose influence is particularly heinous. They continue to blindside many progressive and worthwhile endeavours to the detriment of all.

How can you tell when Julia Gillard is telling the truth?

Only when the real Julia stands up!

Roxon RObert has held her hand up said it did go out and it should not have.
Wrong and such is not unusual in politics.
You like Shadow Minister are a conservative.
But unlike SM I like to think you know as I do, Roxens crime is nothing more than breaking wind in an over crowded lift, in comparison with a former Minister for health taking money from Tobacco, and not instantly supporting plain packs.
In the end is good politics of any value? or do we retreat in to our trenches and defend our side always.

Has anyone pointed out to Shadow Minister that the invitation was sent out six (6) YEARS ago AND Roxon admitted it was a mistake at the time?

Was the difference between a neo-con and the rest of the world, real humans can admit when they're wrong.

6 years ago is not that long after they stopped taking donations from cigarette companies.

It's sounding more and more like a minor stuff up rather than hypocracy.

So what was this thread about?

SM if the claim of this being 6 years ago is true it's time for a retraction, an apology and move on.

R0bert

http://newmatilda.com/2011/06/15/roxon-story-all-smoke-no-fire
It is interesting to read in this well put together story the inference big Tobacco slipped the ABC this story.
While it may well be the case my personal question has to be why?
Not the obvious intentions of the leaker's but What is the ABC up to.
Have they of late inquired of Abbott about his actually taking donations.
I have the very deepest concerns our ABC is slanted to wards the Greens and to manufacturing not reporting, news.

Belly:>>I have the very deepest concerns our ABC is slanted to wards the Greens and to manufacturing not reporting, news.<<

So Belly my china, hard done by from old Auntie eh, lol, a Labor man crying because the ABC's slant has moved, lol, and exactly what news has the ABC stopped reporting? Perhaps all the Labor spin news that replaces facts, but that would be a positive for unbiased journalism, surely.

This is a red letter day, a lefty crying over being spurned by auntie. Again lol.

How big is the story really?

Anybody could if they were really interested Google the subject. The facts are on the web. And I quote:

"The story, by the ABC's Hayden Cooper, reported that Nicola Roxon had written to tobacco industry executives in 2005 (6 years ago) asking for $1,500 for a seat at a fund-raising dinner. According to
Cooper, "In 2005, in Opposition, she wrote to 3 executives from
Philip Morris, asking for them to support her re-election by attending a $1,500 a table fund-raiser. The new MP, Peter Garrett, was the star attraction."

So lets look at the facts:

1) The letter was sent 6 years ago.
2) There was no cover up.
3) Roxon immediately admiited the letter was sent,
owned up to being embarrassed by it, but also
confirmed that -

a) No tobacco reps. attended and no money was donated.
b) Repeat - no money was donated.

And there is no undue influence as Roxon is trying to implement
the world's toughest cigarette packaging laws.

This is a non-story. Unfortunately the media tends to prefer empty
political spin and news that will sell newspapers instead of writing a story of a Minister trying to implement legislation that will save lives.

BTW: the ALP has not accepted tobacco donations since 2004. The same
can't be said for the Opposition.

Lexi in all truth!Honestly!
A very lot of the anti Labor tripe is just as unfounded as this.And knowingly so.
A very real danger is that those forces such as the greens, supporting such dribble are condemning those left of center to conservative government.
No wish to insult you Sonofglion, I just do not think you have the understanding/Balance, or intention to make discussions between us Worth while.

well put lexie
now can you reply
how much big medicine gave the labratters party?
[or how much they gave to the libs/greens..independants

it sems we need to know
WHO IS BRIBING
[sorry 'investing'
..in giving parties money

those getting green subsidies
or fuel subsidies
or drug subsidies

for that matter how much the home insulation given to the parties
or how much the unions give..it sems we give these FOOLS..too much licence to give govt money handouts...

these people CAN MAKE LAWS
to whom much is given
much is expected

WHO IS GIVING PARTIES SO MUCH?
that govts give them so much?

seems if you got a thousand dollar plate
you can get at the member who gives you our cash..

6 years ago so what?
once a thief allways a thief
REGARDLESS OF WHO YOUR PARTY IS

6 years ago she loved them
today she HATES THEM?....

how much have..those sHE STILL LOVES
given her or gher party...[it sems an important issue]

when can we remind people that party loyalty
is for sale at a price..except when the issue becomes news

[we would have loved to remid people
about sir joe petterson...but were ASKED not at his funeral
please dont do it cause hes sick

when it was juring his reign
it was dont dare ask

then when peter beaty cleaned out the archives
[after being his lawyer at the sir joe trial]
even the labrats reniged on their policy

the nats simply took over the labratters party
with their yopung nats...and got rid of tom burns
then bill hayden...and the party muggins never even noticed

Belly you are, as most are, comfortable in the knowledge that their detractors hold opposing thoughts or ideologies. As I have said many times I am by definition a social democrat, but like Faulkner, Richardson, and a generation of Labor politicians and supporters who call a spade a spade see nothing except incompetence and self serving ideological and political actions emanating from the current leadership.

That you defend their actions and outcomes at the cost of our national financial and physical security exhibits that you are a Labor stooge first and an Australian citizen second.

Dear OUG,

You can Google the subject for yourself.
There's nothing stopping you.
This thread is about the "non-story" on
Julia Roxon and tobacco.

Dear SOG,

Watched the news lately? It looks like interesting times in politics
ahead. We probably know very little of what's really going on
behind the scenes at present and who's pulling the strings on both sides of politics. I guess we'll have to wait and see what develops
as the days go by. It makes me wonder though - who in their right mind would ever go in for that job. Idealists or con men? Probably
a bit of both. Right?

Sonofglion I respect your right to your views.
Strangely admire you for what you once claim to have been.
I can not resolve this however, do you claim understanding Intelligence, do you think of your self as well informed.
Then bloke tell me,why do you challenge my rights to my thoughts.
Above all, how can any intelligent informed understanding person, ANYONE, lay that claim that I am a party stooge?
No one,not even from your side, you by the way live CLEARLY on the conservative side of the fence, CONSTANTLY DEMANDS BETTER from their party.
Constantly BAGS his own team, excuse me bloke, but truly read my comments in both threads about cruelty to cattle, my posts in SM s slander of knives out for Gillard.
IF you do so, you will Begin to understand,maybe just a little of why I find your comments not worth while reading.
Last your intended path, even, well especially,if you are a green, betrays workers/unions/ 80 plus percent of Australians.
And is of great use only to the conservatives you are about to impose on us all.

Belly,

Considering some of the silly things that have been levelled at TA such as his taking off a couple of hours to do a political book signing on a funded tour, this is far more serious.

Nicola Roxon should have known better, and if she had declared it before hammering at the coalition for taking donations, she might not have egg on her face now.

SM,

I beg to disagree. She's not the one who's got egg on her face -
it's the ABC and the other news outlets and of course the Opposition
whose job it is to condemn every thing the other side does or in this case - did. The bar should be lifted all round.

Shadow Minister it may well be I am wrong.
Seems I am.
I have never expected balance understanding or fairness from you.
But I truly thought of you as a bloke with a bit of brains, if it is true you hide it well.
Given my link, you dumped on me often for not giving them.
Hope you have read it.
ROberts clear advice you say sorry and retreat, you like your real life Shadow Minister,still push this crying wolf rubbish.
IF as you claim, think on this.
ROXON COMMITTED A GREAT CRIME.
For not getting anything, how big is the CRIME for taking millions? and for your former Minster for health not stopping it,would Abbott except funding from just any one,
How mate can you sustain this insult to fairness decency and truth?
READ THE LINK FOLKS BE INFORMED

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/jacktheinsider/index.php
This link is for Shadow Minister but of use for any one bewildered by our country's politics

Lexi my dear, as Diogenes looked for an honest man (or woman) I do as well. I do not alter my ethical expectations no matter who is governing, so I can trash dishonesty and incompetence even when it emanates from the party I support.

Belly I told you my background, how you could think I am green surprises me, but if I were green I would not buy the bullsheiser of blaming and taxing the consumer. I would go after big business, as it was in the beginning before green became a fashionable persona accessory...amen. Belly the socialism that came to us from our British cousins is dead, here and in Britain, right and political left are indistinguishable when it comes to how they interface with big business. Belly I remember Balmain, Marrickville, and Woolongong , I went to uni with the current crop of pollies, I was disillusioned with the party twenty years ago, but they still held my core beliefs regarding global fraternity and equality, but not now. This is the old DLP mission statement, the sort of platform I wish both parties would embrace because it brings a humanity to our governance.

o Justice and equity in education funding
o Equal pay for equal work
o An independent pensions and needs tribunal
o Decentralisation of government and industry
o Increased budget outlays for regional defence
o Responsible environmental protection
o Support for life and traditional family values
o Capital grants for the family home and for granny flats attached to the family home
o A homemaker allowance and family tax splitting
o A universal living allowance or guaranteed minimum income based on reverse taxation
o Market and product diversification in trade
o Producer cooperatives and income stabilisation
o Long-term low interest loans for small business and the family farm
o Industrial democracy, worker cooperatives and enterprise profit sharing schemes

Re Roxon and her credibility and hypocrisy they are unchanged in my view.

Dear SOG,

A man after my own heart - but we disagree about Roxon.
However, I like your list. As I stated earlier - the bar
needs to be lifted - neither side of politics at the
moment has any right to feel smug.

Ammonite is spot on. It was six years ago and it was a silly thing to do given Latham had banned solicitation of donations from tobacco industry the year before.

But SM conveniently forgets the Liberal Party continues to receive large donations from tobacco companies while at the same time denying any influence. Get real. Tobacco companies are not donating money to political parties for charitable reasons.

Roxon has said it was a mistake - this is a beat up. Party positions change and obviously Labor no longer seeks donations from tobacco companies - that is the relevant point. The Liberals should move in the same direction.

We may well be about the same age Sonofglion while you attended Uni I would have been working, as a kid doing a mans job.
You quote the DLP an interesting thing to do.
Their Catholic right of the left of center, kept conservatives in government for 23 years.
Just as, think about this, anti conservatives voting other than Labor are about to impose Abbott on us.
SOCIALISM IS DEAD it died in the hands of those it was meant to support.
Labor has to win voters from the other side to govern
Right now assisted by those who want every thing or nothing from Labor you and I are being betrayed

Belly,

How about this:

"THE Labor Party has continued to seek political donations of up to $102,000 from a major tobacco company, as recently as this week, despite a ban."

So not only is Nicotine Roxon soliciting funds, but so is Mark Arbib.

Give me the LINK Shadow Minister.
Now IF TRUE it clearly is getting close to the dreadful standards of accountability your team, headed by a former Minister for health is displaying.
Support your claims, your words not mine, with links/evidence , thank you.

Belly try this one
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/alp-still-seeking-political-donations-from-tobacco-companies/story-fn59niix-1226077398148

R0bert

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/alp-still-seeking-political-donations-from-tobacco-companies/story-fn59niix-1226077398148
Here is your link Shadow Minister,and it is evidence of extreme stupidity by some ALP people.
Nothing further about Roxon, you inferred there was.
In my view a reminder both sides of the house have idiots.
NOW tell me. how much bigger is the crime.
The turning of heads to death.
Of your leader a Christian who would as health minister not let abortion drugs come into this country.
Who wanted to NOT SUPPORT the plain packaging legislation.
Who knowingly without reserve has taken, continues to take, MILLIONS OF DOLLARS from peddlers of death.
Do you shadow have ANY doubt people die /have shorter life/worse life because of the SMOKING your party is FUNDED BY.
I do not hide Labors failures,you use them,to hide and blind us,TO WORSE FROM YOURS
I charge the Tobacco industry ,who released this, with being a tool for conservative politics and that both want to influence us and stop plain packs ,A conspiracy IF ONE EVER EXISTED.

Bit of a dummy spit there Belly,

That the most anti smoking legislation was introduced by the coalition government, and that smoking levels dropped more than any other government would indicate, that the coalition is hardly pro smoking.

Abbott's concerns were that the proposed legislation was as every labor policy, poorly researched, quickly cobbled together, and more about spin than results.

Labor have done very little in the past, and this single shoddy piece of policy in 4 years is probably why they feel they can approach the tobacco industry for deserved funding.

Shadow Minister

I want to be sure I understand you. If Labor was RECENTLY seeking donations from big Tobacco (which is hilarious given the 'Plain Package policy'), this makes them worse than the Libs who CONTINUE to receive donations from Tobacco industries.

Therefore, if the Libs do hypocritical things - it is not hypocritical it is well thought through policy, but if Labor does exactly the same thing (I guess it is a way to differentiate between two paries whose moral compass has been lost at sea) Labor is doing 'policy on the run and is hypocritical.

Riiiiight.

without really looking the time period lexie
has fallen from 6 years to 3

how long must a thief or a liar stop lying
[lying down with dogs..to stop being called a lying thief?]

from the link...""The other five letters obtained by The Weekend Australian all came after the ALP's 2004 donation ban.

They are invitations to a NSW cabinet dinner in June 2006 at $500 a head or $15,000 for a VIP table; a similar budget function in 2007;

a "Labor Business Dialogue Forum" in August 2007; a "Business Dialogue" in June 2007; and a "Kevin 07 Election Dinner" in September 2007.

The "Kevin 07 Election Dinner" again offered a VIP table for $15,000 and said: "All funds raised on the night will go to Labor's Federal Election Campaign."

The 2007 "Business Dialogue Forum" invitation listed a price tag of $5000, scheduled a function hosted by Ms Roxon,*

then the opposition health spokeswoman,
and included her photo.

A separate letter to join a "Business Dialogue" in the same year listed membership rates ranging from $12,000 to $102,000.

It is understood Philip Morris has not attended any of the functions and no money has changed hands....""

and there it is
again note mzz rocks-on...center stage

also note the exclusions,...lol
everything else is ok...

but not 'developers and tobacco'
[thus the legalisation of gambling and prostitution]lol

""The latest letter included a form asking any donors to declare that they were not "prohibited donors" including property developers or tobacco companies.

Mr Dastyari said the letter was an "accidental error"".

yeop
as toney says sssshit happens
[especially when your lying down with dogs..that got the cash YOU NEED to sell the lIE...

[that there will be
LOL...'no carbon tax under a govt i lead'

what a joke..!

dont count out smokers anger with juliars
*LOWEST NUMBERS..IN 40 years...liars lie...go figfure

and nice peopole
defend the indefensable
cause what they got..isnt as bad as the fear they dont got

ya really think crimials are only on the other side?

its like i said..REVEAL how much...big business..
ALL BUSINESS..gives...xcompared to wHAT IT GETS BACK*

lets see the green-wash
stain the cash greener...yet who REALLY PAYS
well we only get EVER MORE TAX...and bailing out the bankers

follow the money*
taking money..for favours..is CALLED A BRIBE

Poor One Under God, lost his money in trying to buy in bulk under ground tax free chop chop Tobacco.
Then put the boot into me for my thread Tobacco should we ban it.
Seems OUG thinks no one dies by smoking, that docs and all who say some are wrong.
Now here he sides with SHADOW MINISTER truly OUG thought you better than that!
See we are told, a stupid CRIMSONLY SO, move by some one within the ALP.
IS WORSE THAN.Wait for it.
EXCEPTING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS
FROM BIG TOBACCO.
OK Abbott's statement he wanted to be PRAGMATIC about this issue was not a bought and paid for thing? was it?
I want OUG to answer that, clearly he has more ability than SM, to reply.

"but if Labor does exactly the same thing" - except if the claims are tru they are not doing exactly the same thing. The Lib's openly accept donations from the tobacco industry, the ALP say's they don't but apparently ask for it on the quiet.

I'm thinking Jimmy Swaggart here compared to Hugh Heffner, neither of their moral's are to my taste but Hugh isn't a hypocrite.

R0bert

Ammonite,

The difference is essentially that the coalition takes tobacco's money, and still puts in place the most effective legislation to reduce smoking.

Labor pretends not to take money and is sanctimonious about it, and after 4 years has done almost nothing, and then is caught out asking for handouts from big tobacco.

Robert & Shadow Minister

I find BOTH parties to be complete and utter hypocrites.

Just a bit of clarification...

The ALP has not accepted tobacco donations since 2004
and Nicola Roxon is trying to implement legislation that
will save lives. It's the world's toughest cigarette
packaging laws.

Also regarding Nicola Roxon - the story is a beat-up.
1) The letter was sent 6 years ago.
2) There was no cover up.
3) Nicola Roxon admitted the letter was sent, owned up
being embarrassed by it, but also confirmed that -
no tobacco reps attended and that no money was donated

Shadow Minister! right now your party is so far in front Gillard can not see them.
They have no need of you.
The Master of spin.
No need to lie with deliberate intent.
No need to try to hide the fact Tony Abbott far from installing the most effective anti smoking laws, watch this!
Intended to try to stop it!
The world awaits Australia's action.
It waits the coming challenges, to follow the most effective anti smoking policy EVER.
Sir you resemble the boy who cried wolf, your fate, your party's fate, may be as his was.
CLEARLY you sprout goon show type silliness.
Your efforts help cover up, some at best lunatic acts of my party AND HIGHLIGHT remind, your mob take the CASH.
Terminological Inexactitudes do not hide this.
IF YOU CLAIMS ARE TRUE, my party acted without pride ,for not taking a cent.
The crimes of you team ARE MASSIVE.
you can do better, or can you?

"I find BOTH parties to be complete and utter hypocrites." - agreed on an overall view. My earlier post is in regard to the particular issue of them apparently still seeking donations despite a public stance to saying that they don't.

Lexi you might have missed it but there are claims that Mark Arbib was still doing so last week. I've not chased down how accurate they are.

Overall I do agree with Ammonite's point, neither party is in a position to point the finger at the other.

It's useful to have examples like this pointed out but that's about as far as it goes.

R0bert

Dear RObert,

Who knows what any pollie does as a private individual. According to my research - the ALP stopped taking donations in 2004 from the tobacco industry. But as you say - neither party has any reason to feel smug at the moment. I mean Tony Abbott will fight tooth and claw to hang onto the leadership of his party - but will anyone in their right mind really vote for a man who's even prepared to offer whatever it takes to keep the position. The same for our PM - her credentials in the way she got the job leave a lot to be desired.
Not a very good choice at present.

RObert I will judge you on another post here not your last.
Shadow Minister however is far different.
SM I would like to see your words that explain Labor,while being idiotic,taking NOTHING.
is more GUILTY than your group of professional complainers TAKING MILLIONS is not.
Why conservative past anti smoking actions,taken almost all over the world, are considered by you to be so good.
BUT Abbott thought long and hard, about supporting dealers in death, just maybe, bought and paid for support, and you overlook it!
TEA PARTY stuff mate! maybe criminal too.

Why is everyone in such a lather about Roxon/Abbott, etc.
Let's address the issue.
Is there any likelihood of plain paper packaging reducing smoking rates or stopping idiot kids from taking up the habit?
I doubt it.
The only rational means of achieving the outcome is to increase the tax on the bloody things.

Belly, you accuse me of lying. If so please point out what I have said that is not true.

As far as tobacco influence is concerned, the coalition has done more to stop smoking than labor, so in no way can be in the pocket of big tobacco. The accusation is even more hypocritical when Labor is found to be directly soliciting funds.

These are all plain to see, and if you can show other wise please do so, but so far have failed.

While I welcome you my Friend look at the threads title before insults, you have a point start a thread I will come.
Shadow Minister lies come in many forms, misleading is in my view such.
IF I [thankfully am not] was you, I would much prefer to be told I was trying to miss lead.
Than the only other outcome I knew nothing at all about so many subjects take your pick.

SM,

Kindly provide us with the link where Labor is currently soliciting
donations from the tobacco industry. And also a link telling us what
the Libs have done as preventive measures in making people aware of the hazards of smoking? Give us some evidence please. I for one can't imagine the Libs biting the hand that feeds them, so to speak. But I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

Lexi this is the one I found http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/alp-still-seeking-political-donations-from-tobacco-companies/story-fn59niix-1226077398148

As I said earlier I've not chased it further to see what else is going on with that story. It does appear to be an error rather than deliberate hypocrisy.

R0bert

RObert yes an error but still very wrong,I do not want my party to forget that.
Gee as a workplace team leader or trade union official I would be reminding my crew/member of personal responsibility.
SM breaks a rule I am truly proud of, we Australians, once expected the other side of politics in power TO HAVE wrongs and right on their side.
We called it fair go mate.
Never in his posting history has SM seen other than black hearted filth from my party.
Who ever governs us let honesty mean something.
This thread is not honest.

Dear RObert,

Thanks for that. However I'd be suspicious of anything The Australian published. My information comes from articles written by the journalist Ben Eltham - and he talks about the federal government not just state branches. He states that the ALP has not accepted donations from the tobacco industry since 2004. In any case this thread is about pointing the finger at something the current Health Minister admitted to doing six years ago - out of which nothing eventuated. As I've said - a non-story.

Lexi in this case ROberts post, the dunny door paper one, is true.
A state fool leader of my faction made a mistake, he is very new in the job.
The other? ex same job in NSW and prone to slips
You too are right no money has been taken since 2004.
TWO questions must be asked.
How can Medea, including the ABC/GREENS publicity office not ask why they put it out?
And HOW can any one not see the ugliness of ignoring Abbott's spoken on the record words early, supporting Tobacco and its brand names.
and taking millions in what I consider BRIBES TO SUPPORT them?
What IS GOING ON IN OUR COUNTRY, WHAT ARE THESE donations if not bribes?

Dear Belly,

Regarding the mass media - although television brings a flood of information into the home much of it is highly selective or distorted as you point out. News programs tend to feature the visually exciting or emotionally moving stories that draw large viewing audiences - even if this means omitting issues that are more sober but perhaps significant also. Therefore it's no surprise that the ABC instead of focusing on a Minister trying to pass legislation that will save lives focused on a non-story that happened six years ago and other news outlets picked up on it also. As for the Opposition - well what can anybody expect from a leader who tells us, "Don't believe anything I say," and who'll do anything to be PM? Sad state of affairs all round.

Lexi for that matter every one,I can not find a link but ABC did a remarkable bit at the Sydney writers festival.
All contributors spoke very well and informative about spin.
A good man from Labors left Lyndsey Tanner was great, well worth a look.
Now my post above heated,and in truth while I am totally sure the Tobacco industry is feeding Abbott letters from ALP fools.
That Abbott wanted to go against plain packs in the name, his term, Pragmatism, MY WORDS, confrontation .
If a crime exists it may well not be Abbott's or his party's, this thread as is the case in two dozen maybe more MIRRORS coalition policy's, let truth not get in the way of confrontation.
Find hidden reasons,even if they do not exist, to pillory the ALP.
I here and now lay my claims to crimes at the feet of a Medea tainted and in my view biased by its need to blind its self to honest journalism.
If the silliness of not getting any funds, but asking for them years ago and recently.
Are so bad.
Why is the Medea not requesting answers to why this informations getting first in to conservative hands?
If it was Labor, if we got the funding, then acted this way.
Can anyone doubt these questions would be front page news.
Even the privately owned and controlled GREENS PUBLICITY machine the ABC is silent WHY?

May I suggest a moratorium on Shadow Minister's threads until he is capable of presenting a more balanced perspective?

Har! Har! Har! As if!

I agree, Belly, while I have my misgivings over many recent Labor decisions, the constant casting of Labor as the font of all evil by Shadow Minister is ridiculous, tiresome and outmoded.

My concerns about Labor is they have not offered a viable alternative to the Libs, if anything they are a "shadow" of the Libs (pun intended)

belly you should find lindsey here
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/bigideas/

maybe at this link
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/bigideas/stories/2011/06/07/3236951.htm
or..maybe at this link
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/bigideas/stories/2011/06/14/3243492.htm

the thing is talk is cheap

without KNOWING who in govt or OPPOSITION
is promising what to who

plus as long aas their private talks
reaim private

coooruption will ruin govt [whoever is governing]
johnhowhaRD TOOK THE BRIBES OF EMPLOYERS/bankers
and BEGAT the carbon TAX..

juliar is only finnishing it off
for their true masters...party doner's..with money
wanting acces to the public monies..

again i say
look at what rocks-on has done for the big pharma
giving them govt subsidy...OVER NICOTEEN replacements
when chewing gum costs less than the top-up even pensioners must pay

THERE IS A LIE going down with rocks'on
WITH BIG PHARMA...[look at the birdflue drug buyup scam alone]
in the contract was made a clause...'if un declares a pendemic
millions of orders AUTOMATICLY get laid]

there was real corruption involved JUST AT THE UN
but lets follow the money trail...

WHAT MONEY DID BIG PHARMA GIVE?
to which parties/members..and when

SHAME shame shame...!
both [parties are the SAME]
shame shame shame

rats they are
ratting is what they do best
[let alone that corupt beater up [peter beatup]
who want Krudd gone...

[kevin mate form your own party like catter]
dont quit..let the LIARS sack you

unmask their masters

Labor is also the biggest recipient of gambling donations, and takes heavily from liquor as well, and so are far from having clean hands.

Labor's biggest donor is John Curtin house ltd, which is a front company that raises money and gives it to the labor party under one disclosed amount. The source of that amount is not required to be disclosed and is effectively "laundered".

Even if drug dealers donated money via this "front" it would be hidden from the public.

SM,

Give it a rest. Look to your own party's secret dealings. One-sided
finger-pointing is becoming a bit predictable and boring. Come up with something new and constructive for a change - please.

OUG have a feeling it may be found on ABC web site will look .
Thanks again for you know what.
It is a truism Shadow Minister that your threads are fly paper.
Seemingly intent on getting so silly they bring big numbers of posts.
Your avoidance, at any cost, of truth is amusing.
I honestly in you see any one of 5 or six conservatives but nonmore than Christopher Pyne and July Bishop, both would pinch there mums milk money and say anything.
For that matter Browyn Bishop too.
Enjoy your flights of fantasy I am.

Lexi,

I have been perfectly up front about the coalition accepting money from all and sundry. My point is exactly that as far as accepting donations, the labor party and coalition are no different. The coalition hasn't got a million union members pockets that they can dip into either on polling day.

It is the Labor party that is pretending to be different and is sanctimonious about it.

SM,

Any party that attempts to run in elections needs financial backing to support their campaign which as we know is expensive. Therefore
within reason and their political support base they will solicit
and accept financial support. Just as Big Business, the Tobacco
Industry, the Oil Companies, Mining, et cetera support the party of
their choice. Blaming politicians for denying support from certain sources is not warranted because politically admitting support from
certain groups only generates hysteria in the media which may upset
the voting base that supports that party. That's the way it has developed from early election times. If any party stood on their
principles then there would be no financial support in their endeavours to govern the country. We would then have the American
system where only rich, often unqualified, people attempt to seek the top job and where special interests have a huge influence on politicians through campaign donations which often lead to policies that favour those interests rather than the needs of all citizens.

Shadow Minister, please do not be too picky.
In thread after thread post after post you have insulted me and my union movement ,,because of our donations to, THE ALP.
You infer it is a bribe, do you choose to say this is not true.
Big business gives your side, some times mine too a lot.
Here however its TOBACCO and my side said no nearly 7 years ago.
Your team are putting mail,sent by my side to those dealers in death on the record.
Are we to believe this is not evidence of a close far too close relationship with the givers of those millions ?

NEW POSTERS!
Good morning to every one of you, every time I log in I see names we never see in print.
That is your right, but wanted to tell you about us.
I am just another inhabitant of OLO.
Nothing special, you will note threads like this get a bit feisty, do not let that concern you.
You may not agree with a single word I ever say, still take me on, or ignore me, but could you consider posting?
Every view has Merritt, we all know that,do not be put off come in the water is,well muddy one day sky blue the next.
Hit on the little red man under any post to see the history of that poster, the red cross to report a post you think is against the rules.
And forgive Shadow Minister and my self,we are fire and water will never agree.
Shadow old sparring partner!I have hit that little red man under your posts this morning, fair dinkum bloke! you should do it too, never laughed so much in my life.

Belly,

What has Labor done to reduce smoking, other than this poorly researched populist policy?

Nicotine Roxon before she criticises needs to get her house in order.

SM,

You might like to answer the question also. -

What has Tony Abbott (former health minister) and the Libs done in that area?

As for Labor? I Googled the subject and discovered the following
facts: And I quote:

1)$61 million National Tobacco Campaign on television and radio -
with a very simple message - every cigarette you smoke brings
cancer closer.

2)They're developing world-leading legislation to ban logos, colours,
brand imagery and promotional text on cigarette packets. So from
July 2012 - cigarette packets will no longer have anything eye-catching on them to attract young customers.

3)Legislation is currently before Parliament to restrict internet
advertising and promotion of tobacco products to bring it into
line with the same kind of restrictions that are placed on other media and over the counter sales.

4) Last year they increased the tobacco excise duty by 25 percent.

The finally point is:

It seems pretty clear that Mr Abbott who's such a health fanatic should really make 2011 as his year to kick the habit. The Liberal Party habit of supporting big tobacco. As a former health minister he
should stop taking tobacco donations and start supporting legislation
that will save Australian lives - like Labor is doing.

Good morning Shadow Minister, see you are here too.
I hope reading the link in your thread above.
Much the same can be said about your efforts here feeble,tilting to wards untruth.
And ignoring the truth.
Test me on this, it is said three from your side of the house said this to your Tony.
IF you run against plain packaging we will cross the floor.
They informed him at least 7 more intended to do so, I regard that as something you should be proud of.
NEXT
Climate change, Tony's desperation it seems is driven by the understanding some, on his side, intend to cross the floor.
He wants at any price to avoid that.
Breath deeply my Friend, in time you must retrace your steps.

Lexi,

Tony Abbott health minister slapped graphic health warnings all over cigarette packets and I brought smoking rates down from 22 per cent to 17 per cent.

What is Labor's record so far. In 4 years the smoking rates have barely changed.

Belly,

Keep on telling yourself that. Ignorance is bliss.

SM,

You're grabbing at straws. Nobody read the tiny little print of cigarettes being a hazard to your health - there were other reasons for the reductions - increase in prices being one among many.
And what's the problem with Tony Abbott at the moment - why isn't he supporting the government's tough legislation that will save Australian lives instead of carrying on about the flip flops of the PM
while ingnoring those of his own Party's - like WorkChoices?

Why don't you guys give it a break and simply email each other without using the forum to waste everyone else's time?

Dear GRRGH,

Valid point and one that the politicians could also take up at present. Have you watched "Question Time" lately?

lexi,

"Nobody read the tiny little print of cigarettes being a hazard to your health" Thats what was done before the coalition. The graphic (pictures) helped reduce smoking rates by 25%

As for the concerns that Abbott had, please feel free to read my previous posts. "Abbott's concerns were that the proposed legislation was as every labor policy, poorly researched, quickly cobbled together, and more about spin than results."

Just because an idea sounds good, does not make it good policy. This policy was rushed out simply for labor to get a small victory. There was no real market research, and there is no indication that it will do any good, and has real risks of compensation claims by the cigarette companies.

The only benefit is to allow Nicotine Roxon to bash the Libs, which now she has been caught out has back fired.

GRRH! see you have been here ten seconds lets not claim owner ship yet ok.
Limited as I am by your is it two posts? I rather think you just have a head pain , take a bex.
Go and watch QUESTION TIME time SM, I AM NOW

SM,

Again with the spin. Please also feel free to read my previous posts as to what legislation Labor is proposing - it's more than just one policy. And as for market research - sorry but you've got that wrong as well. Your party's attitude seems to be one of do nothing at all - except attack the government. I'm afraid that if that continues - it won't wash at election time. Most people prefer postive outcomes to
rants and ravings.

The truly honestly worse thing in Australian politics today.
Is Shadow Minister is a mirror,casting the exact image, of the coalitions policy's.
Do not introduce new ideas say nothing about funding, just say no to every thing.
In power they may well use the same policy's they complain of now.
For Sure and certain drop as non core policy's some of the silly stuff.
And teach another generation of Australian voters not to ignore this opposition is defaming LIBERALISM.

However,

All we have from labor is poor outcomes.

SM,

And from you and yours - rants and ravings.
So I guess it depends what one prefers -
a government that at least tries to do things
or one that does nothing at all.

Lexi,

I never realised that the opposition could implement policy. All they can do is hold the present government to account for its failures.

The present government's failures have been spectacular and plentiful, and Abbott has not let them get away with it. Which is why the labor party is at the lowest polling for a major party in recorded history, and Juliar's approval rate is also at an historic low.

Juliar is the best promoter of the coalition.

SM,

The Opposition don't have to implement policies but they could offer us some better alternatives to consider and give us a reason for why we should vote for them at the next election. At present all they seem to be able to do is condemn everything. Which is depressing to say the least. But I should say not all of the Opposition does that there are certain people who are willing to cross the floor on certain issues - like not supporting the plebiscite on offer and supporting the NBN and the carbon tax to name a few. The carbon tax should be put to a conscience vote in Parliament - then we'd see how things really stand.

Lexi,

Just about anything else would be better. For example the new NBN is shutting down all other competition, from installed cables to agreements with telstra not to implement wireless, and ripping up the old copper network.

AH,what we have here is a failure to under stand.
Or can it be a Terminological Inexactitude,Winston Churchill used the word to describe a combative parliamentarian opponent.
The basics, NBN had to be based on a one owner MANY COMPETITORS platform.
Telstra once owned EVERY line.
To free up make more competitive the market = cut prices both forms of government set inaction moves the NBN continues.
GREAT profits have been made by Telstra in this deal [yesterday], we now have a national system that in its very core MUST COVER EVERY ONE!
Must give a service to customers in far out back and inner city's.
Build maintain infrastructure based on service not profits.
THOSE USING THE SYSTEM are service providers, they will be charged the very same rates to use the service.
LEVEL PLAYING FIELD a business mans dream knowing what you opponent is paying.
And watch this space costs will come down speeds and services go up as COMPETITION drives price differences to? you and me.
Brilliant achievement the great shame is troglodytes and others are painting it black history will do better.
The most impressive achievement since the Snowy River Scheme.
Go you good thing ALP!

Belly,

So a sole monopoly, ripping up existing copper networks and paying others not to use existing cable networks and blocking future wireless networks is your idea of competition?

I can see the first thing the coalition will do is remove the NBN's sole licence for service provision. If it is competitive, it will survive, otherwise not.

Why don't you guys give it a break and simply email each other without using the forum to waste everyone else's time?
Posted by GRRGH,

Dear GRRGH,

Valid point and one that the politicians could also take up at present. Have you watched "Question Time" lately?
Posted by Lexi,

Lexi- Hilarious!

I was going to leave olo but your a breath of fresh air.!

Government make heaps from tax out of the tobacco industry- speaking of hypocrites.

Are u new - like me?

Dear Kerryanne,

No I've been around for a little while. I hope that you'll continue to post. We need knowledgeable people with a sense of humour. I'm looking forward to reading your posts.

Lexi

Thankyou & there is nothing better than exchanging posts with someone with a quick wit. I come in here after the day to relax.
Something witty like your post above makes my day. I go to bed happy instead of all worked up. Humor is better than a Dr