Approximately 175,000 New Zealanders who arrived in Australia after February 2002 including several thousand who live on the Sunshine Coast are in immigration limbo.

The only way a Kiwi can get citizenship is by first being a permanent resident, with a Permanent Resident Visa. New Zealanders are not required to hold a permanent resident visa to live in Australia permanently so upon arrival they receive a Special Category Visa which grants them the right to stay permanently, work, send the kids to school etc. But after awhile if the kiwi wants to vote or be eligible for any kind of pension or other benefit they need to become citizens. When they apply for citizenship the first question on the form is Date of Permanent Residency... but that means when did you acquire a Permanent Residency Visa which they haven't because there is no need for one and thus the Catch 22... they are not eligible. Even children of New Zealanders that are born in Australia are not automatically citizens.

Kiwis in this predicament are offered the option to apply for Permanent Residency like anyone from any other country which means meeting the requirements under the points system. The points system requires applicants to achieve 110 points on a scale that awards points for education, profession, age and finances. Anyone over 45 is almost immediately eliminated; those without university education in a desired profession (IT or doctor) will not achieve enough points to qualify.

The bottom line is the average kiwi family that moves across the ditch and settles, whether they are self employed or working for a company doesn't meet the points criteria for a Permanent Residency Visa. They pay the same taxes, they might employ others, but they are not entitled to the same rights as other permanent residents. This remains the fact even if they have been in Australia 3, 5, 7, 9 years etc. Children born to NZ parents are also not entitled to Australian citizenship. The current system is discriminatory and the government knows it but no one in Govenrment has the will to fix it.

Reply to a letter from Senator Chris Evans, in which Senator Evans acknowledges the anomaly and suggests the Government will address the issue (that was 2 years ago)

I am very pleased to learn of your concern for the large number of New Zealanders permanently residing in Australia who have no pathway to Australian citizenship.

The reason for this is, of course, quite plain. If one is to introduce laws that discriminate between citizens and permanently resident non-citizens – such as the denial of the right to social security, for example – then it is a necessary prerequisite to also remove the right to citizenship in order to give effect to the discrimination. Otherwise, New Zealanders could avoid the discrimination by simply swearing their allegiance to Australia.
However, I am none-too-pleased to again find you stating that long-term residents of New Zealand nationality have never been officially considered permanent residents:
“Until 26 February 2001, New Zealand citizens who travelled to Australia under the Trans Tasman Travel Agreement (TTTA) were regarded as permanent residents for the purposes of an application for conferral of Australian citizenship. However they have never been considered permanent residents under the Migration Act 1958.”

This is simply factually incorrect.

Prior to the 1st of September 1994, New Zealand citizens such as me were considered ‘exempt non-citizens’, and, as such, we fell under the definition of ‘Australian permanent resident’ in the Migration Act 1958 along with other British Commonwealth nationals who were lawfully resident in Australia without a visa.

Personally, I find it deeply offensive to be now referred to as a ‘temporary resident’ when I am still authorised to reside permanently in Australia so long as I retain my New Zealand nationality. This, ostensibly, puts me in the same position as an Australian national, as Australians are also only authorised to reside permanently in Australia so long as they retain their Australian nationality. Does this mean that Australians are also temporary residents in their own country, and therefore should also be denied the right to social security?

There is an online petition to Julia Gillard and Prime Minister of NZ, John Keyes. Kiwis should visit this site, read the petition and sign it.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/fair-go-nz-citizens-in-oz/

This discrimination can be corrected by giving every arrival the same status as Kiwis.

Entry to the Australian continent should be made easier and fairer by not coupling it with entry into Australian society. The criteria for the former should be eased while the criteria for the later should be tightened.

Being totally surprised by this, not having known about it I have an idea.
Grab, now I am being fair dinkum, 100 Kiwis.
Get a boat.
Dec it out with signs telling your story.
Sail it to Christmas Island.
Watch the cringe factor fix your problems.
Too hard?
Get smaller boats in every Australian port, on the same day, tell the Medea, make sure you get air time.
If that does not work?
I dare not say, yet but to use an Aussie term not heard now strike me how *&^% stupid.

What is the situation with Australians moving to New Zealand? Does the same set-up work there?

Aussies who move to New Zealand have full benefits and they can even vote as permanent residents. The original reason Australia changed the rules was to stop the flow of Asian immigrants that were using New Zealand as a stepping stone into Aus and that's fair enough.

The unfairness of the current situation is that a "Special Catagory Visa' means one is deemed permanently temporary. In my own case we employ four Australians part time, we have a successful business, we pay our taxes on time. Yet if anything serious ever happened to me or someone in my family we would get no support, even though we have lived in Australia effectively as permanent residents for nearly 7 years.

All it would take to right the situation is an amendment to the Act that puts a timeline in place... say if a Kiwi lives in Australia continuously for 5 years, is an upstanding citizen, no crime record, they will be considered permanent residents and entitled to apply for citizenship or a Permanent Resident Visa.

How hard can it be for the Government to do this?

You are believe me, going about it the wrong way.
Your story is shocking, and unknown.
Get a boat, dress your mates like refugees.
Get the Medea involved, but thinking that is what you are.
Get your signs up and front up for interviews.
Do not let any politicians put you on hold.
Print 1000 copy's of your letter quoted in post one, hand them out.
Direct action, it works.
Can not be bothered? then do the printing, add a page showing a date you intend to do all the above.
Send it to the Minister and make it look like you did not intend to.

Banjo suggested I do the boat thing, I gave up on the paperwork AGAIN after trying to work it out for the hundreth bloody time and having everyone from everywhere else but NZ not understand and tell me of course I can be a citizen.

What a load of absolute Kaka.

How hard can it be sbr108? Did you forget where you are?

Why should we give preference to Kiwis in special visas to allow them to live here permanently, and vicky versa?

Maybe all foreigners should be treated the same. i.e. They would need to be skilled to immigrate and qualify for permanent residece.

Is there any special advantage in just allowing Kiwis to come and stay at will? I am not sure if they are even counted in the immigration figures at present.

Jewerly hear me out.
This is so stupid it must be fixed.
I love running campaigns against idiots, even my mob.
First tell your story to Tony Abbott, he has turned nothing in to big issues so imagine what he can do with this.
Tell him you are Catholic and ride a bike, no being funny get 10 letters a week out ,from Friends your self and any one.
Be a trouble maker.
Still think the boat will work.
Dick Smith came into Sydney harbor throwing ice about and had every one thinking he towed an ice berg in.

Banjo we are spesh and you know it. :P Poppies and stuff, c’mon we’re like cousins – we share fire fighters and all sorts of things when each other has some strife. But it looks like it would be easier if I was from anywhere but NZ which kinda sucks.

Gotchya Bellybabe, they owe me for rejecting me the first time and taking my money to do it when I didn’t do anything wrong anyways. I’m going to copy the first post because I didn’t understand at the time what the problem was and since then I couldn’t find anything explaining what was up with the stupid special visa I have.

Dunno about being a troublemaker, have you seen what they are saying about the bridge dude in the other thread?

Jewels,
I know you are special, and I have admiration for your hubby as he puts up with a lot and you seem to have him twisted around your little finger, but whether or not that applies to all Kiwis, I am not so sure. You and hubby can hide out in my place if things really get bad.

But the questions I ask are reasonable as maybe the old arrangements are past their use by date. Seems all was well untill some foreigners started to short circut our immigration by firstly going to NZ and gaining citizenship and then hoping across the ditch and landing here. I take it that is why things changed. Maybe this worked in reverse as well.

I know we are cousins, but what is in it for NZ and us ultimately. If we have a free passage and residence to each others country, both countries have to benefit. I am asking questions not having a go at you. Can you not get pension when of age or is the only thing about voting. Our politicians are nothing to write home about, so many of us see voting as a pain. I may well look to the shaky isles as a place to emigrate to when our lot stuff it here completely.

They are trying hard to do that.

Good questions Banjo and I don’t have the answers, I should since they will affect me but stuff like pensions I have never looked into. I don’t think I could get one here, I can’t get any benefit now here. See I was born with this knowledge that we were all buddies and Kiwi’s and Aussies can cruise back and forth whenever.

Looks like that part of it still works fine but where NZ will happily give out benefits to Aussies it doesn’t happen the other way round.

Maybe if Aussie did the rule for people who previously held a different citizenship previous to the NZ one less than 5 years before? Might stop others using NZ to cruise in here.

Or just drop your benefits to that of NZ. I reckon that would cause a bit of a bludge panic though.

As it stands its nuts, mostly cause on OLO I hear the bleating about who can and can’t assimilate and who should and shouldn’t be allowed to move here and you go and stop the peeps more like you than anyone else on earth.

If they try boot me out I will be on the bridge with a banner saying “BANJO COME GET US!”

Maybe sbr108 can answer?

Do you miss out on some benefits by not being a citizen or is having the right (read obligation) to vote the main issue in not being a citizen.

What about Medicare and pensions? How do you get a tax file number?

You get a tax file number (be very nice if Kiwi’s were tax exempt) and medicare. Unemployment and disability are a no go. I doubt you can get a pension here without being a citizen. But yeah Srb seems like he would have some answers for both of us.

I’d wonder what it does to have a large population of one nationality here that can never call Aussie home. As for voting, I suppose it depends on who thinks it might be an important thing for members of this society to have. It’s not something that bothers me a whole a lot. Not being a citizen really bothers me and has for a long time.

Well you do not Banjo.
And Jewerly I want an answer to your question, if you did land on our northern coast, not come from the other half of the word ANZAC you would be ok.
Now be a trouble maker, do just this, I will too,remember winners are grinner's.
Print ten copy's, of this thread, send every one but one to opposition members of federal Parliament.
They can then stop reading fairy story's for policy's, actually have one!
Send one to the minister, number it as copy number 162!
Fun, action, and a win.
PS at my sisters wedding I presented my soon to be brother in law with a gift, an offer of free transport any place in Australia before the wedding.
He said no but often thanked me for the heads up,sis not as impressed but we get on well.

Kiwis who move over genuinely, and can prove they have moved rather than just dropped in for a month or two can get Medicare. The Special Category Visa allows Kiwis to work and/or own a business so getting a Tax File Number or ABN is no problem. The problems arise with the interpretation of what a permanent resident is. Any Kiwi who moves over permanently feels they are permanent residents and for all practical purposes they are. However there are hidden little clauses in Insurance policies and some employment contracts for example that reqiuire the holder to be a 'permanent resident' which by the immigration status they are not. A iwi applying for Firemen's job in Vitori was rejected on the grounds of nationality (this decision was overturned by the Court when a discrimination case was filed) Kiwis are not entitled to any form of social welfare or pension under the current arrangement, no matter how much tax they have contributed.

To put this in perspective, in Europe citizens can now live in any country they want but not all the countries offer the same benefits. Germany allows foreigners to to live and work in Germany but charges them less tax because they do not have equal benefits.

My concerns are mostly about having equality. I belive if you live somewhere a long time and you've be a positive contributer to society you should be entitled to all the beneifits of that society. This also happens to be the position of the United nations anti-discrimination policies which Australia is a signatory to... but that doesn't seem to matter in Canbara.

I want fairness. I believe there should be some sort of grandfather cluase in the Immigration Act that grants acceptance after whatever time limit is considered appropriate.

I like the ideas offered up about getting in boats and doing a mass media blitz. My attempts to get anyone in the media interested so far have fallen on deaf ears... Andrew Bolt, George Negus, etc.

sbr108,
Makes one wonder how the two governments could come to such an agreement. Problem here is that if you obey the law and don't make a fuss you are not listened to. I knew we could come and go practically whenever we liked but was not aware you could not get permanent residence, or that you were not eligible for many benefits.

We hand out heaps of benefits to all other comers. Some with vastly different, and incompatable, cultures to that of most Kiwis. NZ culture is the closest to ours and have little trouble adjusting, except for the odd ones like Jewely, who give our child fostercare bureaucrats a hard time, but we put up with that, being tolerant.

Is there not a high profile Kiwi radio/journalist/footballer, who will take up your case, here. I see Lawsie is back, perhaps he is looking for an issue he can get his teeth into.

Sorry I can't offer any suggestions that you have not thought of.

Friday, 25 March 2011
A tribunal has upheld a race discrimination complaint against a legal definition used to deny disaster recovery payments and social security to thousands of New Zealanders living in Australia. The decision against ACE Insurance Ltd opens the way for more anti-discrimination action against companies and state governments across Australia, successful applicant David Faulkner claims.

His race discrimination allegation against the company was over rules limiting its American Express Repayment Protection (AERP) policy to "Australian residents".

That excluded New Zealanders defined as "non-protected" visa holders under the Family and Community Services Legislation Amendment (New Zealand Citizens) Bill 2001, because they arrived in Australia after February 26, 2001, or who were on long-term trips overseas on that date.

The same social security law has been used to deny disaster recovery payments to thousands of Kiwis caught up in the Queensland floods and Cyclone Yasi and to stop social security for sick and disabled New Zealanders.

David Faulkner’s personal situation is unique: he moved to Australia in 1970, when he was six years old, but has a non-protected Visa because he was stationed overseas on a long-term work placement on February 26, 2001.

After repeated complaints to the company over its refusal to cover him, he lodged a suit with the Equal Opportunities wing of the New South Wales tribunal in September 2009.

"The Tribunal concluded that Australian citizens, in the same circumstances, or circumstances not materially different, would not have been refused cover under the AERP Policy by ACE.
The tribunal decision could set a precedent which could be used against Australian state governments in future cases, said Mr Faulkner.

New Zealand’s Foreign Minister Murray McCully recently said he was "concerned" at New Zealanders being denied social security payments in Australia.

There was no similar non-protected visa status for Australian immigrants in New Zealand, he said.

"No doubt this is a matter we will discuss with our Australian colleagues in due course."

Before I pass comment, I want to clarify that I understand what we're talking about here. I came to Australia as a New Zealand citizen (having taken advantage of NZ's open door policies) in 1988, so my situation is different. We were granted permanent residence on the grounds that we had recently become kiwi citizens and my dad had permanent, secure employment.

We have since changed this policy, creating a special category for kiwis. Why? I sort of remember some kind of diplomatic stoush between our two nations, because Australia was concerned that many people were using NZ as a back door to get into our nation and (not surprising given our government's current focus) taking advantage of our welfare system. We tried bossing our neighbours around, asking them to change their policy; unsurprisingly, when faced by a bully and having their autonomy threatened, NZ didn't buckle. You can imagine the discontent in that country if its leaders were seen to be bowing to the demands of Australia. Is this a response to that?

Like I said, I want to get my facts straight before offering an opinion on the matter. Any help would be appreciated.

by Otokonoko: Yes, essentially you have your facts correct. There was some (false) accusations floating around in thelate 90's that kiwis were dole bludgers taking advantage of Australia. the reality was and still is, most kiwis who move to Australia are very productive members of society.

No one would oppose the idea that Australia has the right and responsibility to protect itself from immigrants that used NZ as a stepping stone with no sincere intention of ever living in NZ.

The current situation unfortunately is unfair on those kiwis who have proven to be contributing members of Australian society through their work and by living here for many years. The immigration policy ignores the special relationship, the ANZAC relationship, that make NZ and Aus so close. No other group of immigrats in the world can assimilate into Australia easier than New Zealanders.

New Zealand has an open door policy for Australians without the same restrictions. This post is aiming to generate enough interest that the Australian gov't will bring a fair policy into practice. The government has admitted there is a problem/anomaly that needs correcting but to date no one in government has pursued the issue.

Quite right every bit of that last post.
I never found any evidence to say Kiwis did not work.
Even married couples side by side in construction and much in demand.
It is wrong.
But I was not joking, some times ,always its the squeaking wheel that gets the grease.
And silence is seen as it can wait.
Just as I, having looked after many hundreds of Kiwis as a union official did not know many will not.
We must let them know.
Any way we can,unionists should ask union lawyers to take this on.