One of the new policies being announced by both major parties is the focus on both enabling and nudging people back to work.

There are two main factors enabling people to return to work, firstly, the people need to be given the skills that employers need, and secondly, the employers need to be given the flexibility to employ those with limited skills or disabilities that require flexibility in working hours and times.

For employers to gain the flexibility that is required, components of the fair work act of 2009 need to be ditched, and individualised contracts need to be available for those that don't fit in to the straight jacket definitions of the FWA. These should follow along the lines of the AWAs that preceded work choices.

Given that productivity has dropped since the FWA was introduced, and now stands in the way of helping the disabled back to work, an overhaul is long overdue.

This is the biggest non-issue of all the non-issues.

Joooolia found out that everybody knows she is Bob Browns's Biatch and decided she had to go all Tory and 'distance' herself from the Evil Greens. You know, the ones without the true Australian Family values. The ones lead by a gay leader. You know. Wink.

So she looked at Tony and thought, what does he do to be the furthest thing to a tree hugging hippie. I know! Pick on the poor and unemployed! That'll surely get people thinking I'm not that Bob Brown's Biatch.

So the dole bludgers were served up another round of 'shake in yer boots'. Stuff all will happen of course.

They could get 20 times the money by closing a few tax loopholes or reducing a bit of middle class welfare.

As a card carrying member of the middle class, I'm here to yell, 'over here!'. I'm over here Julia, hit me! I don't need the baby bonus, the FTB, though I do use the childcare rebate. Well I could do without that too really, but the feminists would beat my wife for staying at home those 2 days a week rather than working to pay childcare.

IN the end, there will always be people who don't have the intestinal fortitude to pay their way and I really don't mind picking up the slack. I will look to better my lot regardless, even if there are single mothers watching Oprah and deadbeat dads spending their dole on drugs.

It's funny how tax evasion is a national past time but being creative about your job applications when on the dole is a mortal sin.

Dole bludgers are missing out, I wouldn't swap places with them. It's a piss in the ocean too in terms of revenue, compared with corporate and middle class welfare and tax evasion. It's a piss in the ocean compared to MP's travel expenses to visit the Maldives to see how many fish they have compared to us.

SM
FWA existed under a Howard led Government it was just called the Workplace Ombudsman. Same agency, many of the same employees just a different name.

It is not about making disabled people employable many would love to be given opportunities. It is MORE about making employers willing to employ disabled people. The resistance is not always from disabled workers.

The reality is some disabled people won't ever be job-ready because of their condition nor should they be forced into a role that is unsuitable just to serve some 'higher purpose' of pushing a particular government agenda.

The most relevant examples involve failure of adequate transport for many disabled people to access work even if they are deemed capable and/or willing. Many other services for the disabled diminish with work even if only casual or part-time. These associated factors need to be addressed as a whole package.

Many long-term unemployed are borderline in terms of disability criteria, some with mental illness but fall outside the measurable criteria.

Improve mental health services and the positive snowball effects will be felt in employment.

Houellie,

May I congratulate you on a most excellent and perceptive post (IMHO)

: )

Thank you Poirot.

I was going to try and link it all to cricket somehow, but the boss came round and I just clicked post.

I know all these politicians are scared of the dreaded tax word, of working families revolting when you take away their benefits. But I'm in a working family and I'm doing just fine thanks. And I get all these hand outs that I don't need. I'm sure I'm not alone.

I find the whole idea ludicrous that they tax me then give half of it back. My partner pays stuff all tax, and the government could save money by her being out of the workforce (Hence not subsidising our childcare) and taxing us a tiny bit less.

Maybe the feminists wont let them allow women to stay home full time. They'd actually save money if they paid my partner to look after our kids and stopped giving us FTB and such. Everyone wins!

Maybe the states need the payroll tax.

It just seems a strange kind of creative accountancy sometimes. All these people marking time based on governmnet herding into jobs to justify more public servants to churn the money around.

Then I suppose what are the childcare workers and public servants in the Family Assistance Office to do when we just tax people a bit less and stop subsidising child care and such. Maybe they can take my partner's job.

generalisations..dear boy

shadow..making people employable
is a joke

begun by mr howhard...[who cleverly
got rid of that tax payer burden]..to wit funding schools/education

letting them put up students willing to pay
preferably overseas students on some special visa

it were a lovelly scam it were..plenty of cash for school
while our kids 'missed out'..on places..yet pay up front ..your in

sure we got a skill shortage
we can train uni students to be docters..at tafe
far easier to steal docters from..'os'..than train them here

yeah we got a skill shortage
just dont forget who begun that one

ya want people to be more empolyable
make jobs where they live..not in the outback
[where there isnt a home..or a docter..or not much of anything else]

its far easier to whine
but how about making old farrrrts retire
like all them ex judges..and other white collar elites
not wanting to quit their lucrative board positions

its funny how the libs
*made the problems
then tell us..the average guy never had it so good

[look the 'average wage..has gone up]
just a shame the average bloke
dont*get,the average wage

and the average worker resents
having to work for a few bucks more than the dole
and no dole..the rich landlord..dont get no rent..
shop keepers no con-sum-errs...do gooders got nothing to winge about

anyhow
go bush young man
we got hundreds/thousands..of jobs

just go to the never/never
work like a blac-kkk-fella

just sign here
dont read the fine print

You're still the master of word play OUG. I salute you!

PS: Ever thought of getting into cricket commentary?

And to think, I support the national lesbian movement:) Yes and this.....

"Joooolia found out that everybody knows she is Bob Browns's Biatch and decided she had to go all Tory and 'distance' herself from the Evil Greens. You know, the ones without the true Australian Family values. The ones lead by a gay leader. You know. Wink.

I can see why the snake in the garden of Eden loved EVE....

Tell me cricket commentator, what are truuuue Australian Values?

Now watch you don't get bowled out:)

LEA

I think we all know what Joooolia was suggesting. I hear a faint whistle.....

PS: Just because I hear that whistle, doesn't mean I'm the type to respond.

Yeah! Coz you cant answer the Question:)

LEA

This post is to my mate john cavlvick lol and still hes wondering why?

LEAP

I agree with you Pelican first hand,(second hand actually) about "Many long-term unemployed are borderline in terms of disability criteria, some with mental illness, but fall outside the measurable criteria".

Absolutely correct and you are for the most part (I think) correct Houellebecq, except for the party political stuff.

One thing for sure, being on the long term unemployment list is a soul destroying life, even in this country.

Thinker 2......a smaller population is the is key, to welfare reform.

LEA

NEW MODEL FOR AN AUSTRALIAN REPUBLIC

ELECT A PRESIDENT >> BUT RETAIN THE GOVERNOR GENERAL

An Elected President replaces the Queen in the Constitution.

The Governor General would continue to carry out the same day-to-day Constitutional duties, authorising appointments, regulations and acts of parliament.

But, the Governor General ceases to be our notional Head of State, ceases all ceremonial duties, ceases to be Commander-in-chief, ceases to meet Ambassadors and Heads of State etc.

The President like the Queen, can only appoint or dismiss the Governor General upon the strict advice of the Prime Minister.

The present relationship between a Prime Minister and the Governor General are maintained, for example, a Prime Minister would still be required to drive to Yarralumla to call an election.

The President could not remove a Prime Minister, but a Prime Minister with control of both Houses could remove a President.

This should resolve most fo the incessant arguments we hear about a potential for conflict between an appointed Prime Minister and an elected President would disappear.

Step 1 to the Solution = Non-Military-National Service.

Houellebecq, I doubt Bob Brown would ever want a 'biartch' of any description, do you? :)

I always worry when the Government starts up another welfare-to-work-reform.
The healthcare industry (my industry) always seems to get landed with the long term 'unemployable' welfare recipients who are for the most part too emotionally unwell, or lazily unwilling to work.

For some reason it is considered that the healthcare industry is the place for these people to gain 'certificates', such as aged care workers, or disability care workers, so they can work with the most vulnerable people in our society!

If we are to have these mostly unwilling unemployed welfare recipients working at all, then they should be in factories, or similar workplaces, where they can be properly supervised and only be accountable for material items and not human beings!

only be accountable for material items and not human beings!
suzeonline,
Now that is what I'd call good sense. Can you make that kind of thinking contagious Please ?

First step in my view is not turning unemployed in to low income workers.
Second is easy and clear, just look again and again at some in mid thirty's who never held a job, ever.
The excesses are generated by the understanding those policing welfare need such to stay in a job.

funny you should mention that who-leo

recall.."world serious cricket'
thats where..i learned to summerise a point

when one of them rich bar/stewards
bought up..the cricketing cream

and sent the comment-traiters in
to teach us ludites..the mainly art..of crickets

[ie rubbing ya ball..till ya pants turn red]

or standing at silly/point
completly off ya stump

it wernt till i heard a joke
about..the religion of cricket
that i got it
[its a top joke]

but not half the joke of real cricket
[ya know the ex captain is on speed...thats why he is fast
but also why he is angry..[or warnie..too good to play basic crickett

butt/hey*

now theres..a thought
we could play sports..as our..*work for the doll..commitment

i always wanted to be a paid beer-taster
[paid cause i detest the stuff]..

but wouldnt mind
being a smoke's tester...

its so nice to have a govt that wants us to be happy
trouble being they thing..we are just the swinging voters

personally i wouldnt have anything to do
with a femail pm..who left me swinging
need backbone in me pencil
not peny-silum..in me bum

i always wanted to write trite commody
but too late found i couldnt write
[my teacher thought that would be the best joke]
said one day i too will laugh

well juliar..im not laughing

i didnt mention how i had a run in
with one of them paid to be a mum..teendrama-queen's
tried to run up my bum..

with me on a pedal/pushy..
her in a white[commie-door?]
reg number 455 fku..[really..!]

she was all mouth..with 3 kids under 4
them poor kids..got no chance
i bet her dad is on dole

her favourite line
is 'pedophile]...pedophile..pedophile
at the top of her voice..in a car park
after tryinjg to run me and my peddly over

she was one of them..who you just know
is going to raise some intresting kids

i think god is trying tyo tell me i agree with the new
'earn or learn'... tag..i gave rudd..not juliar

anyhow kevie..now she's reading my email..2u
or else wayne is currying favours

First step in my view is not turning unemployed in to low income workers.
Belly,
forgive me but what income bracket should they be in ? Middle Class ? I along with millions of other working people would instantly opt for being unemployed.
As I keep saying, put people into a situation where their own initiative is required and instantly, you'd see a change in mentality. Being the good Country that Australia is we shouldn't have any unemployed or poor in the first place. It's an indictment of blowing our own trumped as to how good we are that ends up with so many poor & unemployed and worse, with so many unemployable. Yes, it's OUR FAULT for getting rid of all that instills discipline. Let's get it back. Provide but don't give. Help but don't do. Bloody simple if you ask me.

Belly,
I do agree that just because someone is looking for a job they should not be forced into a position where they get exploited. CDEP (CEA now) for example was designed to keep the unemployment figures down by giving the unemployed two days work/pay. A disgusting method by all Governments.
We do have a minimum wage, so why can't we have a maximum wage also ? In private enterprise if you're good enough you make the dough, in the Public Service if you're no good you get more than someone who is good. When working for the Public Service there should be limits for unemployed & employed.

Of course the thinly weighted leaders such as we have now, Abbott and Gillard are indulging in the populist bashing of the underprivileged. The people the least able to defend themselves and lets not forget their other target, refugee's.

While Telco and Tollway Corporations, Banks etc employ contracts both arbitrary and punitive on their customers, Miners and Poker Machine Operators advertise their way out of paying appropriate amounts of taxation or obligation to contribute to the social betterment, we expect the unemployed and disabled to adhere to a mutual obligation of responsibility, but not one of our political leaders would have the backbone to make the big end of town do their bit and contribute.

In the case of the Australian battler/consumer/worker (apparently encapsulated in the outer western suburbs of Sydney), we find these people who don't care about never getting a pay rise to compensate for inflation, don't care, about having little or no job security,don't care about the environment , but are deeply concerned about dole bludgers and immigration/asylum seeking.

Good job that these boneheads are not spread Australia wide or we would have a real problem. Sm, I think it is apparent that conservative side of politics today is a shameless rabble of extremists and looneys, bent on achieving power at any cost, with the Labor party dragging along behind them on a chain.

The new soft Tony Abbott does not cut it and the PM hasn't. I'm am still fearful of TA's comment to Tony Windsor that "he would do anything to become PM" during the post election negotiation with Independents, that scares the pants off me.

Whether it's the softer Tony, or the scripted Tony, it's the real Tony that worry's me SM.

Beyond that, taking the underprivileged out, and having them publicly flogged, seems to be a political point kick in the eyes of both our major parties at the moment.

Shame really isn't it, that this is the best they can come up with at the moment.

I hate the following on so many levels:

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/gillard-announces-teen-parent-plan/story-e6frfku9-1226050332251

Teenage parents' social security payments, worth up to $625 a fortnight, will be cut if they don't go back to school to finish year 12 when their baby turns one.

They will have to attend meetings at Centrelink six months after their baby is born to prepare them to resume school.

Currently, parents don't have to look for work until their child turns six.

Participants in the scheme will receive extra support to cover most of the cost of childcare and parenting education classes.

Ms Gillard said if eligible parents refused to participate in the scheme without good reason then their welfare benefits would be suspended.

"But that's not what this is about," she said.

"This is about engaging parents so they have a better life and their child has a better life.

"Yes, there's compulsion, there's responsibility, but there is opportunity at the centre of this measure."

Individual those two posts do not address anything I think, endorse, believe in,
Thinker 2,are you aware of just how hard it is to help some who are out of work?
Do you understand in that figure 4.5% are both the very defeated unemployed who do not have the self confidence to even try any more.
Have you seen, spoken to , and tried to help those who refuse to work ,any work any job?
Would you carry night soil in one hand and pick up the rubbish tin at the front gate on your way to the truck.
I have in QLD years ago.
Not every one needs to be a boss,some of todays unemployed ,with help would love just to work.
Some are out now breaking and entering homes, sponsored by social welfare, do not believe? you should.
Every cent we pay to those who will not work is wasted, should be spent on helping the honest ones a job should be both a right and an honor.
Jewerly,you above all understand,some are baby factory's.
Not all some.
I rared 5 children for such, she had the welfare I had the bills and kids.
Education is a promise not a threat, without it pain can destroy both mum and kids.

Before we start punishing the unemployed who 'refuse' to work (such as the teenage mums), I was wondering how they would then provide for their children?

Why are the Government looking at punishing just single teenage mums for not working?
I think ALL the unemployed should be either training for new jobs in schools or as apprentices, or working in community projects until they get a 'real' job.
If they are the sort that will never get a proper job, then surely working to improve our local communities is a worthwhile pastime?

The original thrust of this post was that it is all good and well trying to encourage / threaten people back into work, but with the new IR legislation making flexible work difficult and expensive.

The two hours a day helping out after school has effectively been banned, and students, especially teen single mums have no interim between unemployment and full day employment.

Belly,
Just so I understand correctly, you don't think making people make an effort is good ? Putting a limit as to how much a bureaucrat on taxpayers' money can earn is no good ?
You agree with calling people who get two days pay a week as employed ? If that's what Union philosophy is then no wonder we're in this mess.
I have had stuff stolen & despite paying insurance got zilch compensation. Others can be on drugs & drink without a care in the world & they get some of my tax Dollar to sleep all day whilst I go to work ? Why are people unemployed ? Well, there are so many varied reasons that we can't just throw them all in the same basket. We could create employment if we put a stop to the insane earnings of banks & telecommunication companies. Mostly though get some of those $200,000 plus a year Public servants off their safe pedestals & spread the money to employ people. Those who use machinery instead of man power too should pay for not employing people to make insane profits. Get a flat tax system, Non-military National Service, curb Bureaucrat salaries & we'll have a good society.

I need to leave the thread and will, after two posts.
Uninterested in Shadow Ministers direction.
And unable to understand Individuals.
I post out of respect for Suzionline.
I just have to say Suzi,change is not always bad, or wrong.
Welfare is a gift from government/tax payers to under privileged.
I happen to think the word welfare has great merit.
It in my view is not an attempt to hurt or harm but help.
I am reminded Suzi of a family known to me, the whole extensive family excepts welfare, every one of three generations.
Now having children,for them is an enterprise,at 14 years of age.
18 year olds get carer payments for older generations,but live inseperate housing, rarely seeing them.
This is all true.
I am impressed by your defense of fairness, after all such has been my life's work, still is.
But are we assisting theft from those truly in need?
more to come.

Well i've watched this title there for a while and thought the last thing I needed was another bashing from the do-gooders, but here goes.

Making people employable.

You're kidding!

We provide them with schooling. Within that schooling we also provide tutoring for 'special needs students',we provide 'work experience' opportunities, we then provide an array of options 'post grade 10/12', such as tafe or tech colleges, most of which is either 'paid for', 'or subsidised by' the tax payer.

Now, if after all this the students become 'unemployable', well so what!

As I have said before, we are all presented with an equal opportunity to fail.

Perhaps a better angle would be to find a way to stop dead beat patents from having dead beat kids, most of which are either to busy having more kids, or taking drugs etc to even realise that their kids are either at best struggling at school, or at worst, not even attending.

If, after 12 years of schooling, plus endless opportunities to better themselves and, 'full employment, people still don't have the skills to obtain a job, then tough titties.

Most 'long term' unemployed people who can't find work don't just want a job, they want 'the job' and there in lies the problem.

Just remember, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. So get over it!

We must not react to conservative ideas that high wages bring about unemployment.
Not true but never forget it is a wish to have a lower paid lower class by such.
We have, even Abbott will not change it, a form of socialism in place, all welfare is such.
In country's that once had communism and Socialism too some return for help was needed.
We can not forever think to ask for some accountability is wrong.
I think we can employ every one, that a safety net that helps not harms is some thing we should constantly change.
In the family I have highlighted but many more too, young women now mid 20,s 3 or 4 kids can not read.
And do not even understand life away from poverty and sometimes cruelty is possible.
I now leave, no intention to debate lowering living standards of Australians in the name of small business or big.

Bellybabe: “Every cent we pay to those who will not work is wasted, should be spent on helping the honest ones a job should be both a right and an honor.”

Not when when baby needs you more and parenting isn’t being treated like a right.

“Jewerly,you above all understand,some are baby factory's.”

If ‘some’ are then that’s what Aussie wanted and encouraged wasn’t it? Now watch the mandatory reporters in daycare start overworking those fax machines to supply the next business up the chain.

“I rared 5 children for such, she had the welfare I had the bills and kids.”

Do you remember at 12 months old what they were like? It’s a really clingy stage and we’re going to force young mums to dump babies with strangers in day care. It is such a foul thing to do.

“Education is a promise not a threat, without it pain can destroy both mum and kids.”

Well it will feel like a threat because if they wanted to bugger off to school or work they don’t need to be threatened with money cuts to do it so what’s the easiest solution to stay home with first born? Have a second born. And on it goes.

Is it the govt ‘s job to find daycare new clients or was this about the daycares being upset with the rule changes for them coming in?

I now leave, no intention to debate lowering living standards of Australians in the name of small business or big.
Belly,
No-one is suggesting that. Stop worming your way out of responsibility. As a Union Rep you had your hand in sowing what we have now, the least decent act you can perform is to help find a solution instead of trying to put down those who want to better things. No-one's saying Unions are bad, they have done many good things but for crying out loud stop defending those who stuffed things up. Instead of simply dismissing other's suggestion tell us in your next post what your idea is to lower unemployment & stop supporting those who do not want to work. My suggestion is to start with a non-military National Service.

'Well it will feel like a threat because if they wanted to bugger off to school or work they don’t need to be threatened with money cuts to do it so what’s the easiest solution to stay home with first born? Have a second born. And on it goes.'

Hahaha. Well spotted.

every gift generates
an obligation

get together to help each other

i done the 'course'
a waste of 3 months
those in the know simply skip the classses

and nothing was learned
but it was recorded as leaving dole
[ie fiddling the numbers..
after course...were..no longer 'long term'..unemployed]

but some obligation for the dole
like do one day baby sitting for other mothers
to get them socialising..thats what we lost..
someone to 'talk' to

or better to listen too

Remove the endless reels of 'red tape' both government and private companies created over the last few years, and Government may just be surprised with the number of talented and skilled Australians wanting to work and who are more than capable of contributing greatly to our workforce[s]and country.

Governments have made it more difficult for skilled workers in relation to many things following new additional legislation in some states. In many instances, one requires thousands of dollars upfront to work/acquire a job, ranging from the costs to be fully ticketed, possess work licences, provide up to date referees, no blemish or scar on ones record at all, pass rigorous security testing for both private and government work, be prepared to work in two positions as opposed to the one position employed for the same wages; the list is endless.

Forget unions to stand up for any rights; there are many industries not covered.

Australian companies and government are currently blocking excellent prospective employees with far too much "red tape".

Weareunique,
Everyone I speak with is condemning red tape, yet most are employed by this cancer of our society & economy. We vote in politicians but we don't vote in consultants yet the politicians use a huge amount of our money to employ consultants to make decisions we've voted the politicians in for. What an idiotic yet widely condoned practice of corruption & incompetence.
It really is a sad reflection of the electorate and an even sadder prospect for any moving forward, the promises of which we had shoved down our throats before the elections. Australia will continue to decline if Australians continue to choose not to think, particularly at election time. The unemployment & unemployables are the clearest, yet most ignored by-product of a people too consumed with consumerism instead of looking at what's happening in other countries which experienced this stage 40 years ago. Australia has one of the highest travellers' rates by comparison but do those australian travellers ever return with an enlightened philosophy ? I haven't seen one yet. They just proudly show of how many stamps they scored in their Passports.

Hey Jewely, I was quite surprised to find myself in direct opposition to your post about hating the back to school solution; paying an hourly rate for education is a harp I've been strumming for decades.
Of course, I would have to add a very large IF.
IF the teenage parents could take their babies to school with them...
I would like to see childcare centres become more community centres, where parents were encouraged to stay with their kids.
What then is the point of having child care centres, you might ask?
Well at the risk of offending multiculturalists, some parents 'cultures' are questionable at best; like multi generational welfare recipients.
Perhaps childcare centres could be places where 'bad' parents could hopefully learn -by example- from 'good' parents.
And maybe get a formal education at the same time.
And of course your point about avoiding the issue by simply having another baby is spot on, but will always be an issue as long as we pay parents to have children.
This is a huge topic which deserves to go on, and on, and on...

You have touched on something there, weareunique.

It is amazing how little we know about the long term unemployed and how much value (productive capacity), exists among such people.

It is also amazing how little employers know about the skill sets of their employee's, resulting in in many cases, the wrong people doing the wrong job.

Above all, most people just want to be a functioning and/or acceptable contributor to the hive, if given the chance.

You are correct of course WAU, about red tape, but this theme continues on, all the way to the nanny state, based upon the theory that most people given the chance, wont do the right thing, and therefore require random interdictions into our privacy to assure that order is being adhered too.

This theory is wrong. Most people given the chance to embark on the path of worthy contributor to the hive, choose to do so,
and do so willingly, and with some self satisfaction.

It is the encroachments on personal freedom by the control freaks among us, that make the hive itself less attractive,
and as a result, more like a bee hive than a human hive.

In a human hive you search for queens (or exceptional human beings), and do so with an open mind, from the drone population as well. In order that balance be maintained and the inherent (deep seated) genetic satisfaction of knowing that the best interests of most people, and the other inhabitants of our planet etc are being served.

Such is the hive mentality. Further disenfranchising the unfortunate, less able, less willing or even the less understood amongst us, may be a convenient political philosophy, but it is a short term fix at best. A complete misconception at worst.

Rehtub

I learned enough by the end of primary school to do some of the jobs that I have done. Maybe the real lesson that kids get from special education is that those who stuff-up the most get the best treatment.

Grim

I like your idea, some schools are looking at ways of keeping students' kids with them. The problem that they come up against is that they become subject to the sort of over-regulation that plagues childcare centres.

Unique

I got my first job by sitting on a bench near the gate of a meatworks. I got my second job with a two minute phone call. Now it is all resumes, referees, medical checks and inductions. No wonder so many long term unemployed find it all so daunting.