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The Forum > General Discussion > Exagerated Mardi Gras attendance figures

Exagerated Mardi Gras attendance figures

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In less than two weeks Sydney will host the Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras parade. Every year organisers boast amazing attendance figures. Currently their Website is claiming “…..over half a million Sydneysiders turn out each year to cheer on the parade.” (http://www.mardigras.org.au/internal.cfm?sub=Parade&nav=Mardi%20Gras%2007).

For years I have accepted these figures, but recently I started to question their accuracy. I soon found out that a bit of basic primary school maths raises some raises some very interesting questions.

Let’s assume that 2 people standing shoulder to shoulder take up about one metre in length.
The Mardi Gras parade is, at the most, 2km long.
Therefore, 4000 people standing shoulder to shoulder would form a single line 2km long.
When viewing press photos and TV news coverage of the parade and the crowd only ever seems to be 5 or 6 rows deep. That’s 5 or 6 single lines.
Even if the crowd was 10 deep on both sides of the road, for 2 km, We are looking at no more that 80,000 people. 20 rows X 4000 people)

If there were 500,000 people in attendance the crowd would have to be 64 rows deep on both sides of the road for the full length of the parade.

If we assume that each row is about half a metre deep then for “…..over half a million Sydneysiders turn out each year to cheer on the parade.” The viewing area would need to be more than 30 metres wide, on both sides of the road for the full length of the Parade. That is the equivalent of ten lanes of traffic either side of the parade route.

Blind Freddie can see that attendance figures of half a million are totally unrealistic. Even 10% of that would be generous.

Can anyone tell me why these figures are so exaggerated and what do the organisers hope to prove by making such outrages claims?
Posted by proverbs, Monday, 19 February 2007 4:55:00 PM
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These people will inflate figures in an effort to legitamise a perverted lifestyle. No doubt the figures quoted by SBS/ABC will be much higher than those attending.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 20 February 2007 11:05:35 AM
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I think the Mardi gras are a yawn. I have only seen it on television and have the impression of a collection of sad old drag queens showing too much of their hairy and pimply bums while trying to look happy. The poor old butch chicks meanwhile feign happiness while attempting to attract a dolly and advertise their life style.
Posted by SILLE, Tuesday, 20 February 2007 1:35:10 PM
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Proverbs, take a closer look at the footage this year. The buildings lining the street are packed, people climb onto shopfront awnings and up telegraph poles and crowd onto the rooves of buildings to watch it.

There's also a lot of movement as people come and go from Mardi Gras parties in the area. The side streets are also packed as is the upward curve of Oxford Street off the main route of the parade. And it doesn't end with the parade itself as people crowd around the areas around the beginning and ends of the route.

I don't know how the crowd numbers are officially estimated, but the numbers on the footpaths along the route are only a portion of the total crowd.

Regardless of the messages the Mardi Gras sends about sexuality it is a fantastic spectacle with free entry. A lot of the crowd is there for the entertainment more than to make a statement about sexuality. That's certainly the case for our heterosexual, standard nuclear family.
Posted by chainsmoker, Tuesday, 20 February 2007 4:44:42 PM
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Chainsmoker,

Even if the crowd was ten deep either side of the road I am sure the buildings would collapse if you had anothr 450,000 people hanging out the windows.

The point is that the figures are totally outrages. The police have even refused to continue to verify such figures

Adam Carr, a prominent homosexual journalist/activist, in an article in the Melbourne Star, a homosexual newspaper, entitled “Mardi Gras crowd puzzle” (March 7, p. 6). argues for a ‘total crowd of 60,000 to 75,000’.

As for the entertainment, Thanks but no thanks.

Basically we have a group of people who are publically saying "this is how I like to have sex". They are then trying to justify this by overstating the number of people who support them.

Why don't we have a parade that celebrates all types of sexuuality. We could have floats depicting threesomes, Bondage, beastiality and the list goes on.

As for your encouragement to enjoy the "entertainment", Thanks but no thanks.

My pre teen children do not need to see such open displays of sexuality. I prefer to let them grow up and enjoy their childhood.

In fact, I am sure I don't need to see that sort of stuff either
Posted by proverbs, Tuesday, 20 February 2007 5:10:22 PM
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proverbs: "Let’s assume that 2 people standing shoulder to shoulder take up about one metre in length.
The Mardi Gras parade is, at the most, 2km long.
Therefore, 4000 people standing shoulder to shoulder would form a single line 2km long.
When viewing press photos and TV news coverage of the parade and the crowd only ever seems to be 5 or 6 rows deep. That’s 5 or 6 single lines.
Even if the crowd was 10 deep on both sides of the road, for 2 km, We are looking at no more that 80,000 people. 20 rows X 4000 people)"

This argument seems to me to be a little (ahem) 'anal retentive'... google it if you don't know what it means :)

Get a life, mate.
Posted by CJ Morgan, Tuesday, 20 February 2007 9:45:02 PM
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Who cares? Watching the Queen Mary 2 and the Queen Elizabeth 2 in Sydney Harbour, and the flotilla of yachts endlessly admiring this spectacle, was the great visual spectacle of the year.

A few boats have upstaged the Queens of Oxford Street.

Mardi Gras demeans itself when costumes get more tired by the year, the cliches get worse, and the meaning is overshadowed by commercialism. The Crystal Meth that it attracts makes it lose its celebration of life. The dance parties became mindless escape venues where Crystal Meth helps you not celebrate or liberate yourselves; it merely helps you escape life for a period of time. Some return mostly unharmed. Some return with brain damage and develop psychosis. Some do not return to life at all. The new drug: GHB, or Grievous Bodily Harm is even worse. People literally plop unconsciously on the dance-floor, and the medical team are never sure if this leads to another casualty, or if this is yet another unconscious victim needing medical attention urgently.

The body counts from these events are some of Sydney's best kept secrets. I think the staff at the city hospitals have had enough of the silence. Every year gets worse.

Yeah, Mardi Gras. As the Moulin Rouge raves on "Spectacular Spectacular, the show must go on". A coughing and sputtering in the background: another performer in this spectacle is carried away.

Next!.
Posted by saintfletcher, Wednesday, 21 February 2007 1:32:44 AM
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Oh and Proverbs, to answer your question, the inflated figures are a ploy to attract sponsorship and advertisers to fund the thing. It has nothing to do with sexual insecurity.

There was a joke once of renaming it "the Testra Qantas Mardi Gras".

It looks great on an adversiting brief or on a tourist brochure.
Posted by saintfletcher, Wednesday, 21 February 2007 1:39:16 AM
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proverbs, I think I can help.

>>For years I have accepted these figures...<<

Right there, that's where your problem is.

You probably believe that if you catapult some hops, two barmaids and a stag into a cloud, you get beer. That teenagers are under attack from six-foot Twisties bags. That eating a chocolate bar will have you running a marathon with a heavy pack on your back.

These are called "advertisements".

You may have heard the expression "truth in advertising", which possibly leads you to believe that whatever they display on your screen actually has to be true.

Heads up. They exaggerate.

They have a product to sell, and accuracy is not required. In the same way that beer manufacturers are allowed to fantasize the production process, event promoters are allowed to fantasize their attendance figures.

Once you have absorbed this information, you might be able to work out that it is not the event promotion that worries you - after all, no-one forces you to eat Twisties either - but the event itself that you have problems with.

And if the sight of a bunch of people having fun upsets you, then you might like to seek some help.
Posted by Pericles, Wednesday, 21 February 2007 9:38:57 AM
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The whole show is a sad exhibit.
Rather pathetic actually. I had seen the TV reports of the numbers and
just shaken my head that real people could be so gullible.
However I am now pleased that I had been mislead and the figures are so
much less.
That anyone could believe that playing around in the poo is
a real alternative life style is beyond me.
If you were a public servant responsible for approving adoptions, would
you approve a couple of queers adopting a young boy ?
It could really come back to haunt you in 20 years when the boy takes
the involved public servants to the cleaners for being so stupid.
Posted by Bazz, Wednesday, 21 February 2007 10:51:39 AM
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Bazz
You raise an interesting point:
Where do you stop/draw the line?

Once you start down a slippery slope it is difficult to call a stop.
Someone or some group, always wants to go one step further

During a previous discussion re gay marriages.
I questioned/challenged some of the gay rights advocates commitments to principles of “Peoples right to choose” & other high sounding slogans, by using an analogy of a man choosing to have sex with his dog

The screams of ridicule & outrage I received ( some from one of the previous posters) would have made any right wing religious moralist blush…
I was told it would never happen
It was a red herring etc etc …
And I wasn’t fit to talk to …

I read recently however that Denmark is proposing to decriminalise acts between humans & animals!
Posted by Horus, Wednesday, 21 February 2007 11:46:09 AM
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The figures are supplied by the NSW Police and verified through media reports, neither of whom are known to be gay friendly. There are also about 10,000 people in the parade itself.
However regardless of the figures, and I reckon you'd challenge them if they said the official figure was 1 man and his dog, the only reason you want to challenge them is your own hatred of gays and lesbians, nothing more and nothing less.
Christians exaggerate their figures every xmas and easter by telling us millions of Australians turned up for church services... the truth be known, most churches are empty and at best they would get 100,000 to these meaningless events nationwide.
I feel very sorry for you. Hatred of people's freedom seems to be the only value christians have these days, no wonder they are doomed for extinction.
Oh and to the idiot who mentioned marrying animals.
Think about it, an animal cannot enter into a legal contract.
Personally I reckon marriage should remain a church based or private ceremony.
We should do away with all state sanctioned entitlements and priveleges for all married couples.
Let people marry each other regardless of gender, but don't force me or anyone else to pay for it over and over again.
Posted by AJD, Wednesday, 21 February 2007 4:28:20 PM
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BTW: The parade travels up only one lane of Oxford Street. The others are filled with onlookers, backed up to the shopfront doors on the footpath. In many places it is 50-60 deep, even moreso at the cross streets. In Taylor square, it probably reaches well over 100 deep. Hyde Park is chockers, as is every apartment/ flat, hotel room, office, shop, pub along Oxford and Flinders Streets and a large number of the side streets. Even in the final stages of the parade, you notice that even Moore Park is overflowing with people.
If you've only ever watched snippets of it on TV, then you truly have no idea on how many people attend and what it is all about.
It's about love, compassion, equality, justice, the empowerment of oppressed and marginalised people, plus challenging bigotry and conformity.... Then again, if you're a christian, you probably have no idea what those words mean.
Posted by AJD, Wednesday, 21 February 2007 4:49:18 PM
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Pericles suggested that it upsets me to see people have fun.

AJD accused me of starting this discussion because of my hatred of gays.

How on earth do you guys come to such outlandish conclusions.

Since when is telling the truth Homophobic?

You may find this hard to belive but did you know that it is possible to disagree with someone and not hate them?

Here are the facts.

Attendance figures have always been issued by the organisers. The NSW police do not agree with those estimates and stopped endorsing them in 2002.

Adam Carr, a homosexual journalist/activist, contends that the mardi gras figures are false. In an article in the Melbourne Star, a homosexual newspaper, entitled “Mardi Gras crowd
puzzle” (March 7, p. 6) he writes:

Adam states
“the mardi gras route is 2.5km long making 5km of available viewing space. Allowing three people per metre (a tight fit) 15,000 people can line both sides of the parade route. A crowd of 150,000 would therefore line the entire route 10 deep. A crowd of 600,000 would line the route 40 deep.”

“The crowd was thickest in Oxford St but cannot have been more than about ten deep there because of shop fronts. At Taylor Square the crowd was about 20 deep for a short distance but it thinned out dramatically along Flinders St. Once the parade entered Moore Park there was almost no crowd at all. The average crowd depth was therefore probably four or five [rows], making a total of 60,000 to 75,000.”

I have attended events where organisers have estimated a crowd of 50,000 and police have said it's more like 35,000. It seems common for organisers of events right across the board to over estimate by about 50% and when you are a part of an event and it is something you support it really quite embarrassing (as Adam Carr seems to be indicating). However, in this particular instance we are talking about an exaggeration of 1000%.
Posted by proverbs, Wednesday, 21 February 2007 5:14:38 PM
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"It's about love, compassion, equality, justice, the empowerment of oppressed and marginalised people, plus challenging bigotry and conformity...."

By all means disagree with me, BUT.....

"Then again, if you're a christian, you probably have no idea what those words mean."

Is This true?

NO

This is gross presumption.

You do not know me.

On what basis are you making such nasty personal attacks on me?

If you look at my profile and all the Posts I have ever made you will see that:
I allways state my opinion, belief, idea etc.

I may disagree with your opinion, belief, idea etc.

But

I will never make a personal attack on an individual.
Posted by proverbs, Wednesday, 21 February 2007 5:25:40 PM
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'It's about love, compassion, equality, justice, the empowerment of oppressed and marginalised people, plus challenging bigotry and conformity'

Its about lies, hate(see pictures of Fred Nile), perversion, injustice (promoting filth), the shamelessness of the shameful and demonstrates bondage for many. The parade is full of bigots who hate what is good and love what is evil.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 21 February 2007 5:59:15 PM
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I think that the Mardi Gras is degrading
Posted by Jolanda, Wednesday, 21 February 2007 6:08:08 PM
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"ALL christians are scum sucking maggots.
I find their CHOSEN LIFESTYLE totally repugnant and disgusting.
I do not differentiate between any individual... the only good christian is a dead one.
If you're not a christian, then you do not need to take offence, if you are then yes it was my intention to offend you."

Whether I am a Christian or not is irrelevent. However I do find it disturbing that feel the need to use this forum to spew forth such hatred.

Why?
Posted by proverbs, Wednesday, 21 February 2007 9:37:18 PM
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Oh my ADJ, this "devil's advocate" is sounding rather undergraduate:

'It's about love, compassion, equality, justice, the empowerment of oppressed and marginalised people, plus challenging bigotry and conformity'

The floats are in 3 categories. Bare chested muscle maries, they show off their odious narcissism. Then those poor old dears who ought not take anything off at all. If only they saw themselves the way the world sees them. The smiling marching boys. The "dykes on bykes". Again.

Then there are the "political" floats. A few cleaver little snippy statements at the Church, some at right wing factions as opposed to how "free and wonderful" gay life is. Oh goody!

Then there are the commercial floats pretending not to be commercial floats. This includes the political parties of politicians and their gaggles pretending to be "gay friendly".

As to that prattish little twat: Addam Carr, his journalism has absolutely no credibility at all. He once claimed that all people with aids only had 5 years to live, back in 1989. Then other gay journalists furiously claimed Sydney: an "Addam Carr free zone". He was one of those snottish pratts from Melbourne who relished on their mortality. Some of these people are still alive, 25 years later...

Addam Carr, obsessively a Sydney hater, will stop at nothing to put Sydney down. Not much has changed in 30 years.

Oh, ya gotta see the funny side to this.

Most posters in OLO know that I'm not gay but I like to know what is going on.

Yawn.

Again.

Anyway, ADJ, have a happy and safe Mardi Grass. Please say no to Crystal Meth or any strange drugs. This is one sentence I say in sincerity.
Posted by saintfletcher, Wednesday, 21 February 2007 10:14:07 PM
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Whilst I neither like nor agree with ADJ's pointed comments about Christians, gay people [and I'm not one BTW] repeatedly get the equivalent or worse thrown at them by some Christians, including some of the regular OLO posters. So we can easily see why he/she retaliates, can't we?

I'm a freedom of choice person and this is how I see it. People can choose to be part of the Gay Mardi Gras, or not. People can come and watch, or stay away. People can approve, ignore or criticise. And, as has already been pointed out, people can believe or reject the attendance figures. These are personal decisions which we are all free to make.

But a gay person does not "decide" to be gay, he/she is born that way. And as far as I an concerned, a gay person has just as much right as anyone else to seek fulfillment in life. And if part of that fulfillment includes being part of a Gay Mardi Gras parade, well good on them.

A good many years ago, when such parades were regarded as controversial, my wife and I marched in Perth. We went along to watch and decided to join in. And we found it very enjoyable. Along the way, we saw one of our neighbours, and we smiled and waved at one another. Next time we saw her, she told us that her husband's brother was gay and that they didn't usually mention it, but obviously it was of no significance to us. Right, it wasn't and why should it be? We felt like we'd built a little bridge.
Posted by Rex, Thursday, 22 February 2007 12:33:45 AM
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Well Rex, if they are born that way, then they are a genetic defect and
should be treated as handicapped people.
They certainly are handicapped as any organism that cannot reproduce
itself is destined for extinction.
Such organisms in nature are generally considered to be useless and are eliminated.

Hmmmm, interesting.
Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 22 February 2007 6:51:26 AM
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Bazz: "Well Rex, if they are born that way, then they are a genetic defect and should be treated as handicapped people."

Just pathetic. Such prejudice precludes the possibility of any meaningful conversation on this topic. No wonder some gay people get exasperated by such obvious homophobia.
Posted by CJ Morgan, Thursday, 22 February 2007 8:56:09 AM
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Watch out everybody, the gays are exaggerating again! Cover your eyes children!
Posted by Bugsy, Thursday, 22 February 2007 10:50:45 AM
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Bugsy put it best.

For my two bob:

If you don't like it, nobody's forcing you to partipate. I reckon Pericles is right when he says the figure exaggerations are about cold hard cash.

Runner - live and let live. They're not doing you any harm. Quite frankly, if you don't like it, it's none of your business what people get up to in their personal lives. Yeah, you can argue they're putting it out there in front of you too much, but I can say the same thing about Christianity.

As for too much sexuality - I reckon this ideal of shielding children from sex is a pretty recent historical phenomenon.
Go back a couple of hundred years, and you'd find people lived much less cossetted lives and children knew what the score was when their parent's bed started creaking.
I'm astonished people get so worked up when children are exposed to sexual messages, but seem pretty lax on the whole violence issue.
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Thursday, 22 February 2007 11:14:43 AM
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Well CJ Morgan, if you don't like the conclusion that being born that
way is a genetic defect then what is it ?
The alternative is they chose that way to live.
You want it both ways, born that way but not a genetic defect.
Come on thats a nonsense and you know it.

Turn right etc is right in that in olden times most children lived on
farms and they knew from an early age which way is up.
They knew that mating bulls with bulls was a waste of time and probably
realised that homosexuality was a bit silly, I mean whats the point ?

Isn't it marvellous how someone who calls out that the emporer has no
clothes gets jumpted on and called allsorts of names !
Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 22 February 2007 12:45:37 PM
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So Bazz how do you treat handicapped (everybody else read different) people?

Are you with the old catholic school approach of flogging left handers until they learn to be right handed?

Should they be locked away out of sight because their handicapp's make you uncomfortable?

Should they be deprived of the things that let them deal with their handicapp's because that helps you feel superior?

A predisposition to homosexuality clearly places someone at a disadvantage if the only goal is procreation, others of us place some value on how we live our lives.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Thursday, 22 February 2007 1:16:41 PM
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Ok folks, lets get back to the issue.

There is nothing in the original post that makes a judgement about the morality of Homosexuality. Other people on this forum have decided to make it a gay vs Christians issue

When the age newspaper published an article in April last year claiming that the Australian Grand prix organisers overstated their attendance figures by 30% were they being anti motorsport?

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/grand-prix-attendance-overstated-by-70000/2006/04/06/1143916656744.html

So, why do the people think the organisers of the Mardi Gras parade are above scrutiny? Is it because they are gay? No, that could not possible be it, that would be reverse discrimination.

If a sponsor, unhappy with the return on their investment in the event, decided to accuse the organisers with fraud because they overstated their attendance figures by 1000% year after year would that be homophobic?

If you purchased a cafe on the parade route and ordered in big because you were expecting huge numbers, would it be homophobic to complain because you felt ripped off when you had to throw out tons of rotten food?

These are real questions that organisers of any other event would have to answer so why not the organisers of this event?
Posted by proverbs, Thursday, 22 February 2007 1:28:05 PM
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Proverbs... can you find me an example of another event that has gotten in trouble for exaggerating their figures?

As you point out, there's been an article in one of the papers pointing out the figures don't stack up.

They probably don't. The truth is... nobody really cares.

The reason why the argument drifted in the direction of the morality of the event, was that people were wondering why it is you feel so strongly that there needs to be accurate figures. Your subsequent posts indicated a particular stance on the issue, which fuelled the topic in drifting further.

I know I for one, take these figures with a grain of salt. I dare say, you're probably right in that they're exaggerated. I reckon they're probably somewhere mid way between your estimate and the final figures.

But the question becomes... why is it such a problem for them to inflate the numbers.

And then we end up on the merry go round again...
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Thursday, 22 February 2007 1:51:30 PM
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Attendance figures are an ideal way of determining the success of an event. High attendance figures indicate high public approval.

This translates directly to high estimates of the economic benefit to the area, city, state etc.

It adds weight when responding to opponents (EG Aust GP vs Save Albert park Group) and competing against similar events for sponsorship dollar (EG AFL vs soccer, Union vs league etc).

High attendance figures raise the profile of an event giving it credability when aplying for government approval for road closures or building permits etc.

We should get annoyed when organisers of events like the Australian Grand Prix and the Mardi Gras parade try and rip us off with inflated attendance figures.

As for my motive for creating this post? I think it boils down to my sense of injustice.

Firstly, there is a sense of injustice that comes about when people try to Con me.

Secondly there is the sense of injustice that comes when certain groups think they should be exempt from people disagreeing with their philosophy and that they should not be open to scrutiny like the rest of us.

True, my view on homosexuality does differ from the viewpoint represented by this event. However, there are a lot of issues where I disagree with other people and in most cases we are all given the freedom to express our disapproval or disagreement with certain ideas, philosophies and actions.

We are all valuable individuals who deserve respect. I always try to address the issue not the individual and I hope others would do the same.

However, there are two groups who seem to overreact to anyone who disagrees with them.

Visit any number of discussions on OLO and you will find people sharing different views on a wide range of issues, but disagree with Homosexuals or Muslims and the response is frightening. The name-calling and the viscous personal attacks are quite disturbing.

Some would suggest they react because of years of persecution. There are many groups with a history of persecution but they do not react as strongly as these two.
Posted by proverbs, Thursday, 22 February 2007 7:11:38 PM
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I hear you proverbs and some just don't get it.

If you were a sponsor of Mardi Gras, then you should have a right to some more accurate figures. That is not homophobic.

If the legitimacy of Mardi Gras pivots around the "pink dollar", then the organisers have to be accountable to any misadvertising.

If you bought advertising for example, the SMH, ipso facto, they claimed to have 3 billion readers internationally, you would surely want some accuracy.

Besides, when the former Mardi Gras administration went into liquidation after bankruptcy, many artists, DJs, hire companies, and even media, were never paid for their services.

This followed some endulgent spending on "the Gay Games" which again, fudged up the figures to lure tourism and the American market to Sydney. Most never came. So Mardi Gras' investment went bust, ACON'S health grants from Government grants had to be fudged to cover some costs, and many services, tax payers, and business had to pay for some trumped up hype which was never true.

People hide behind the "discrimination" shield too often when it is a business, accountable, just like any other business.
Posted by saintfletcher, Thursday, 22 February 2007 8:54:10 PM
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I'm glad you two are on the case, just in case any business was gullible enough not to do their own research. Just one point I was wondering about, why don't I see any big denunciations on the attendance figures of the cited example of the Albert Park Grand Prix organisers? It was noted in paper, sure, but what sort of response were you planning on getting reporting your revelations on a blog site like this? Don't feign surprise proverbs, everyone knows why you want to do this sort of thing and it hasn't anything to do with "corporate accountability" of sponsorship deals. Anyone who wants to know where ol' prov is coming from just have a look at http://www.saltshakers.org.au/pdf/085056_LETTERS_TO_THE_EDITOR.pdf

Except that guy thought that more than double your calculations were credible.
Posted by Bugsy, Thursday, 22 February 2007 10:47:22 PM
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proverbs: "As for my motive for creating this post? I think it boils down to my sense of injustice."

Having just read the Salt Shakers article that Bugsy directed us to, I think that our good Christian above is being just a tad disingenuous here. It always amuses me when religious nutters resort to telling porkies in order to promote their medieval moralities - as they so often do in this forum.

Isn't there something in the Bible abour bearing false witness?
Posted by CJ Morgan, Friday, 23 February 2007 6:47:26 AM
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Bugsy, CJ, I doubt if anyone was ever unaware, let alone surprised, about proverb's motives.

But it is good to point out occasionally how they try just that little bit too hard, and end up with egg on their faces.

I love the way they always protest their innocence of any such motives when challenged...

>>Pericles suggested that it upsets me to see people have fun. AJD accused me of starting this discussion because of my hatred of gays. How on earth do you guys come to such outlandish conclusions. Since when is telling the truth Homophobic?<<

And...

>>There is nothing in the original post that makes a judgement about the morality of Homosexuality. Other people on this forum have decided to make it a gay vs Christians issue<<

Yeah, right.
Posted by Pericles, Friday, 23 February 2007 9:22:13 AM
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This reminds me of the Robert Mapplethorpe exhibition in the United States. People lined up around the block to pay money to look at the photographs. Christian fundamentalists were disgusted and tried to have it closed down. One protester was quoted in a newspaper at the time saying-

This is just disgusting. It shouldn't be allowed. It makes me sick. Every time I see it I feel more disgusted.

So why'd she keep going then?
Posted by chainsmoker, Saturday, 24 February 2007 12:37:48 PM
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Runner: Just because you don't agree with their lifestyle doesn't mean it is perverted. Why does this always turn into us vs them mentality. I am a heterosexual with a number of friends (who oh! my god! are gay)and they deserve the same respect as you and I do. They also deserve the same rights. They have all been in serious relationships for over 10 years (alot longer than the majority of my heterosexual friends) so what gives you the right to say they should have their partnerships recognised. It is none of your business. And to the person who said they wouldn't adopt a child to a gay couple, I would do it in an instant, particularly when you read the continuing stories of marriage breakdowns, domestic violence and child abuse in the straight community. At least a child would have a life full of love and would never want for anything.

As for the Mardi Gras over exaggerates the figures. Who cares? All event of any kind over exaggerate figures.
Posted by JanT, Monday, 26 February 2007 12:52:35 PM
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JanT

Just because you do agree with a lifestyle (that I and others know is unhealthy and destructive) does not give you a right to shove it down our throats and influence our children with such destructive behaviour. Some people believe paedophille is not a deviant lifestyle. Just because they believe that does not mean it is not. You may know a couple of people who have lived deviant lifestyles together for 10 years but no doubt they are in a great minority.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 2:45:57 PM
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"Just because you do agree with a lifestyle (that I and others know is unhealthy and destructive) does not give you a right to shove it down our throats and influence our children with such destructive behaviour."

Agreed. So there's to be more no more religious education classes in schools, and those infernal doorknockings are to be halted. If you could get rid of those 'hour of power' christian TV thingies in the mornings I'd also be much obliged.
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Thursday, 1 March 2007 4:16:11 PM
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Well, ah, my friends won and dragged me along to see the parade but I left early.

What I did notice was a reasonable crowd, less floats and the floats were moving slower to make up for this.

There were various commercial floats. There was an ANZ, Westpac and IKEA float, all with hired marching boys and people strangely cheering at this intrusion.

The police were fantastic and patient. I give them five stars for community PR.

"John Howard" was there without a significant slogan. Not really in a negative frame, just that he had to be there must have been enough.

Less in the Member for Bligh / Sydney Lord Mayor: Clover Moore's float for the state elections, which was paid for by the Sydney City Council. Naughty Clover. Tut tut. Less in the ALP and the Greens Float, and Shane Mallard didn't turn up with the Liberals float now that they have shunned him for preselection.

There was, however a good work choices float from the unions.

There were children in attendance an many Asian tourists. Near the family floats were naked men with stockings over their penises to make them longer. The families next to me left immediately. Oops.

It was generally what you would expect but I was glad to get home to my tim tams and the family. Once the bottles and cans and the drunks roll down the hill, you know you've been there too long.
Posted by saintfletcher, Sunday, 4 March 2007 1:59:49 AM
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The Surf Life Savers joined in this year too.

Who'd have thought those bronzed Aussie icons would be lured by such a profane, disgusting, polluting event, eh runner?

Maybe they don't really save drowning people. Maybe they're really out there drowning heterosexual kids or something?

Ikea? Always thought their furniture was a bit suspicious. And we all know what those firemen get up to when they're out there pretending to put out fires. It's all just a smokescreen (heh) for godless depravity.
Posted by chainsmoker, Sunday, 4 March 2007 10:24:53 AM
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Who cares if the attendance figures were exaggerated?

What's your real issue?

Your sly innuendo is another covert but obvious attempt to bash gays.

Sneaky, sneaky!

Figures indeed! Get a life, mate!
Posted by dickie, Wednesday, 7 March 2007 3:55:41 PM
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Provers.

What difference does it make how many went to this duscusting and degrading event.

Whats your point? I agree with Dickie. Your up to something but I dont follow this sort of crap enough to know what.

If the Government allow this sort of behavouir especially as an example to our children then no wonder why we have the trouble with kids and youth we do.

I think Andrew Bartlett supports these people doesnt he.

People with what ever on their whatevers 'indeed.'

Probably just as well I have never unknowly walked down a street to see this stuff carrying on.[ Anybody for cricket]

They say being gay is a deafect by gene at birth and people cant help it.

Fair Enough. But keep your private sex life to yourself. normal people dont want it jamed down their throats or their kids either.

You dont see married couples rally~s with a demo of their activities and body parts.@#$%^&*()_

These stupid pricks can stick their exposed you know whats up their * ---Ask your mother for sixpense.
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Thursday, 8 March 2007 9:30:05 AM
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Provers.

What difference does it make how many went to this disgusting and degrading event.

Whats your point? I agree with Dickie. Your up to something but I dont follow this sort of crap enough to know what.

If the Government allow this sort of behavouir especially as an example to our children then no wonder why we have the trouble with kids and youth we do.

I think Andrew Bartlett supports these people doesnt he.

People with what ever on their whatevers 'indeed.'

Probably just as well I have never unknowly walked down a street to see this stuff carrying on.[ Anybody for cricket]

They say being gay is a defect by gene at birth and people cant help it.

Fair Enough. But keep your private sex life to yourself. normal people dont want it jamed down their throats or their kids either.

You dont see married couples rally~s with a demo of their activities and body parts.@#$%^&*()_

These stupid pricks can stick their exposed you know whats up their * ---Ask your mother for sixpense.
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Thursday, 8 March 2007 9:31:01 AM
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What has Andrew Bartlett got to do with the price of moon pies?

Surely there's some more relevant targets to hit with anti-homosexual rhetoric - unless you're targeting Bartlett due to a general dislike of him. The fact that you're asking "he supports them doesn't he" seems to be a bit of a giveaway.

If you don't like it - don't go. There are plenty of rallies that occur that people disagree with - take a look at the catholic and protestant rallies that hit Ireland each year.

There are plenty of things I don't like which are "shoved down my throat."

Reality TV, obtrusive advertising, religious pamphlets, four wheel drives on city streets... I don't appreciate any of these things, but I'm not going to tell them they can't do it.

People have the right to express themselves, even if you don't happen to like it.
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Thursday, 8 March 2007 11:27:30 AM
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Turnright left whatever

No I dont dislike Andrew. Actually I like him a lot.

It was a question. He is one of the few people who have tried in vain to get some humane decency for animals.
The reason I asked was because after doing to polls for them a few years back I was abused leftrightandcenter because of their support for gays.
Until then I was unaware that they supported them. So after the election just before Lyn was appointed as leader I took the trouble of calling and speaking to her about this very topic.

We spoke for quite some time and I explained what had happend regarding peoples attitude towards this topic.

It seems a lot of people turned on them becuase of it.

She replied[quote] that when elected as leader she certainly would not be waistoing much time on the suject.

I took it that she was not going to support - supporting them in the future.

Apart from that Andrew has been a guest of mine at meetings with Government and Islamic leaders.

So actually you are very wrong becuase I dont invite people whom I dont like or agree with in basic principle.

Andrew does however lean very heavily towards PETA the American group and vegan and vegatrain groups.

These groups are really upsetting Australian Farmers. Its important we work with them not offend them continually.

As for your idea that its ok for these people to run around almost nude with things on their Dicks PUSHING their discusting on the rest of soceity well your simply wrong.

You say you have a problem with Churches etc- fair enough - But I havent seen many ministers of the Church running around the streets naked either.

People have a right to express themselves - indeed
Take a look at some of the footage with full grown men wearing ribbons on theirD----s and their bums hanging out.
My God
Do You really want your kids and grand kids raised to except that as the norm?
Well I dont and most Australian Mums and Dads dont either!
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Monday, 12 March 2007 11:20:54 AM
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"As for your idea that its ok for these people to run around almost nude with things on their Dicks PUSHING their discusting on the rest of soceity well your simply wrong."-PALEIF

Damn straight, those bloody cyclists have had it too good for too long!
Posted by Bugsy, Monday, 12 March 2007 11:57:34 AM
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