Dear Yabby abd Poirot,

I suppose I should have made things clearer. My apologies. All animals perform both instinctive and learned actions. Instinct almost completely determines the behaviour of insects, spiders, and crustaceans (crabs, lobsters). These animals can learn only a little and so their survival depends on built-in beaviour patterns. Higher animals, including fish, amphibians, reptiles, birds, and mammals, can learn more. They can also modify their instinctive behaviour by learning.

The higher the animal, the more it can learn and the less it depends on instinct. Fish behave more by instinct than do birds, and birds perform more instinctive actions than do mammals. Among human beings, infants smile and suck instinctively. But as human beings grow older, most of their acts are learned.

Poirot - Thanks again for this thread. It's been interesting. I had fun but I now feel it's run its course for me.

Yabby - I've enjoyed our robust discussion. You certainly are a challenge, but an interesting one and I agree with Poirot - you should go on "A Farmer Wants A Wife." You deserve to find your perfect match. She's out there somewhere.

Actually this debate reminds me of one that I once had with an
anthropologist, about the definition of culture. His take was that
it entails the things that humans learn from their community etc.

When I then questioned what he called the things that chimpanzees
learn from their community, he claimed it could not be called
culture, as they were not human! Pfffft.

Poirot, glad to hear that you enjoyed that programme, I watched it
a bit earlier on the satelite and found it interesting.

I think tv is simply about picking what to watch. I hated history
at school, as it was a mindless learning of names and dates, mostly
they were meaningless. But watching things like the advent of
the industrial revolution and other history programmes on tv, where
they actually showed places, machines, canals, engines and how it
all came together, I was fascinated and relearned the whole thing.

purerot./.quote..""instinct is that it
demonstrates behaviours or responses that are unlearned.
A baby crying and its urge to suck is instinctual""

i might agree with one but not the other
i havnt studied the crying 'instinct'
but have seen how it can be modified

i have studied the feeding 'instinct'
again what comes to mind is show me the gene
but yabby dosnt seem keen to expand on his theory

anyhow back to the feeding from the mammery glands
for the mother its clearly not instinctive
and as a male..yet having the required nipples
and testing the ..'its naturally instinct..theory'..

found on actually trying it..[naturally]..it isnt natural nor instinct..though i credit[blame] trying..on a natural instinct to confirm or satisfy curiosity or just learn

anyhow on study of the matriarchal instinct
i noted the baby might reflex and again may not
it did consistantly 'learn' to suckle..in the end

im sure a specialised topic would confirm my findings
[again i need ask by what 'gene']

you say
""Our penchant for fatty foods is instinctual.""

ok your penchant?
but no i must lack the required 'gene'
i hate fat..

[but agree it might be an aquired or learned habbit]
what with all the propaganda and guilt..in the media etc

""our common rejection of bitter tasting food is instinctual.""

yet others love it..
[im thinking it might be more learned/aquired habbit

if your mother [genetuical or adoptive]..makes it..
you love it..

or starve]

i hate burning my mouth
thus hate hot foods

*must be my genes
[ie mum never cooked with it]

of course if you got mex-i-can genes
you must love it..if you dont got mex-i-cant genes..you dont

''Even gambling is tied to our instinct for risk taking''

so your with yabby
i can see you pair in the woumb
making bets with each other,,[who will come put first]
who will swipe the docter..or wet the nurse.

anyhow your defending the yabby
thats so nice

must be genetical
its certainly not heriticall

anyhow
i note others are leaving

heard this bit of 'creativity' last night
1000 at risk of getting mammery cancer
by taking tamoxocilan..

can prevent 40 from getting it
[the creative bit
was leaving out..how many still got it]

or how many died from bleeding-clots 6/1000
and woumb cancer[4/1000]..just two of its known side affects]

the other creative bit
leaving out how many still got it
plus
taking the..normal quantities
out of..the studies numbers

its all creative accounting
afterall all you got to do is beat doing nuthing
[placebo affect]

OUG,

"anyhow your defending the yabby
that's so nice"

hmmm....so I'm not allowed to have thoughts of my own?

Our society these days provides the opportunity to eat fatty foods at the drop of a hat.
However, our ancestors only had occasional access to fatty foods, existing as they did on a diet of berries, nuts , fish, etc. When a beast was hunted and killed, they had an opportunity to eat some fat, and they seized it with relish.

The bitter taste of many foods is associated with toxic properties.

Babies crying at a louder sustained pitch avails them of a more rapid response from their caregivers.

Women possess mammary glands in order to nourish their infant offspring - we can only imagine how instinctive it was for our female ancestors to feed their babies this way.

ok they are your own thoughts
i didnt mean to imply they were not

they were put up to expand on a previous concept
that i regard as being too simplistic

its easy to say its genes..when its parenting
my kids are good..because i got good/genes
but yours are bad..because you got bad/genes..[so to speak]

its like saying
we cant help..what you are
you just got..the wrong/genes

but it was just luckey
one had good parenting
and the other hasnt

[the fruit cant fall far from the tree]
a child raised with apes will be more ape than human

but lets reply quotes...""When a beast was hunted and killed,they had an opportunity to eat some fat,and they seized it with relish.""

hunger will do..this sort of thing

in civil society this extreem hunger
now is mainly seen with sex crimes

""The bitter taste of many foods
is associated with toxic properties""

and unripe fruit
but recall as a child being tOLD by a parent....
dont do this..dont eat that...because etc etc

""Babies crying at a louder sustained pitch
avails them of a more rapid response from their caregivers.""

yes its a learned action
that can be unlearned,..when they find it no longer 'works'

i recall it was more imagined judgment of the neighbours
that got me out of a warm bed..to check on a crying child
[ok i never said i was a good parent]

""Women possess mammary glands
in order to nourish their infant offspring""

so woman would have us believe
dont you know how good they feel
to the inner child we know all men to be

""we can only imagine how instinctive it was""
somehow i see eve sitting[hiding]in a cave
the cry threatening to awake adam
surrounded with wild beasts
mainly meat-eaters

thinking
how can i stop the noise
from awakening that beast beside me

[lets face it
it stopped adams griping]

its hard to talk [or cry or whine]
with a full mouth..[i must not try to be so creative]

it works

for most of the people
most of the time