We could have a group of Australians selected by education and willingness to serve in government. From this group political office could be filled by lot. Those who show competence in office could be re-elected for two terms. Incompetents could be replaced at any time by referendum or judicial action.

Adequate compensation should be provided for office holders. Political parties would be eliminated. Those Australians who have served in public office could also serve as advisers after their term of office if they have served creditably.

i partly agre
but we must sepperate them
from the purse strings too

get their noses
out of the trough

those who raise a new tax
shouldnt be allowed to determine
which of their mates gets the new gifts

also stop them re-entering ..into business
they over-saw ..as govt SERVANTS

in fact why give them any pension
when they only become borad members
or work for those ...they served all allong

also ban all party loyalties
one cannot serve two masters

also this thing about having a quorum
ALL SHOULD SIT IF THE HOUSE IS SITTING

i sat in the public gallery for weeks
most of the time there was me the speaker
and the talker and the next talker...

quarum should be a job of the speaker
both parties should have equal numbers

like for like
just like pairing arrangments

also minesters...job should be auditing
their dept expenditure..!

not doling it out
or being lobby for who gets what

the system is rotten
time to sepperatye the good fruit from the rotted spoil
start with banning party membership..

and fund raising..
or lobby..[without proper oversight's]
[and without hearing ...*an opposing argument]
properly presented

each new law
must lose an old law

each new subsidy
must lose an old one
[of equal value]

sepperate lawyers
from making laws

or docters making laws or submissions
on big medicine rules or subsidy

david f:>> We could have a group of Australians selected by education and willingness to serve in government.<<

David, you would think that a tertiary education would be an asset to being the representative of the people. But I believe it is an encumbrance to ones perception regarding the reality lived by the plebs.

Last year in Sydney less than 5% of the graduating students received a UAI that would gain them admission to a uni, and of that 5%, less than 3% will end up with a degree. These people are rare in the broader society and as they peruse their careers they become insular from the plebs because of their career paths.

This is the candidate that political parties canvass. Someone who has lived a rarified life is now charged with representing the aspirations of the 95% that did not achieve a UAI, and now inhabit the mortgage or rental belt of struggle street. I would take common sense and life experience over education, we have a public service, they must be educated, and politicians must have common sense and empathy, education is a bonus.

>>From this group political office could be filled by lot. Those who show competence in office could be re-elected for two terms. Incompetents could be replaced at any time by referendum or judicial action.<<

Bottom line is we need first past the post. The Tasweigan imbecile Andrew Wilkie came third in a five horse race and with preferences he won; the Labor candidate even flogged him. That is disgusting, plain stomach turning idiocy.

>>Adequate compensation should be provided for office holders. Political parties would be eliminated. <<

Italy has had about sixty governments in sixty years, primarily because coalitions to form government may need half a dozen entities. The two party system is the most stable. The concept of no parties and a free vote on issues is appealing but individuals change their minds where parties tend not to, the whip sees to that, you need continuity for efective governance.

OUG:>>each new law
must lose an old law

each new subsidy
must lose an old one
[of equal value]

sepperate lawyers
from making laws

or docters making laws or submissions
on big medicine rules or subsidy<<

OUG, you say some good things.

Sounds like you want to create a dictatorship.

a597:

...“If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it must be a duck”.

...There are plenty believe we are in the duck pond of dictatorship already!

we can also do without media disinfo
and we can do without overseas multinationals
stealing our natural resources..looting our forrests seas and waters

we need workers to do the job
for a fair share

but appart from that we dont need bosses
reaping off the cream

or bankers collecting intrest

or insurers whio dont insure

when govt did phone power and water
it was much cheaper

why let miners reap the resource
when the workers doing it could easy work for govt
and the proffits gouing to all of us..not some fat big business banker

David f.,

In an ideal society, which we're not, your suggestions would work.
Afterall, that's how many community groups work. Unfortunately, the daunting task of responsibility of running a nation is discouraging to those that would be most qualified to do so. So the job is left to those that are not competent to do anything else, get paid well, and become politicians in a Party system which excuses them from doing anything by blaming their opponents. Some nations after the collapse of the Soviet Union did draft idealists to serve their country but after a few years the "politically-minded" element took over.

Another concern is the drain on the national economy of the continual
pay-out to former Prime Ministers who have already received a substantial package on their retirement from politics but continue to get lucrative pay-outs and support. Why?

Lexi:>> Another concern is the drain on the national economy of the continual pay-out to former Prime Ministers who have already received a substantial package on their retirement from politics but continue to get lucrative pay-outs and support. Why?<<

I suppose the stipend is to keep the ex PM's off the streets, literally. Could you imagine an ex PM down on his luck and hawking whatever he or she can to support themselves and bringing an air of ill repute to themselves and the office they held. There are billions of other wasted tax dollars to concern ourselves about Lexi.

SOG:

I'm not questioning the generous pay-outs (that will keep PMs in comfort for the rest of their lives) that PMs receive when they leave office. What I'm questioning is - the several expensive office accommodations, (one isn't sufficient), state of the art a/v equipment, all their telephone bills, newspaper and magazine subscriptions, first-class flights around the world on a whim, luxury cars, and staff, that continues to be provided (at tax payers expense) even after they've left office. Admitedly some former PMs are not as blatant in the use of these benefits but as we've recently read, there are some that do exploit this opportunity. One former PM managed to spend over 4 million in one year. That is more than just a "stipend."

"We can do without professional politicians"

We sure do, but they cannot do without themselves, right?
So once a headless nail is in, it is there for good!

What we can do, is to take away their powers, so they can continue talking out there in Canberra, agreeing, disagreeing, interjecting, calling names at each other, etc. so long as it no longer affects our own lives.

We should vote for policies, not for politicians, and even then the scope of those policies should be limited to the minimum necessary do defend ourselves from harm by others, externally and internally. That is all that a state is legitimately about, all the rest should be voluntary. Once the policies are set, anyone competent enough can get the job of seeing that they are carried out properly and it is no longer a big deal who will that person be.

Here is how we can do without professional politicians:

You already benefit from competition every time you go to
a store.

What if you could shop for a region to live/work in,
where all the regions were competing to give you
the best of everything?

The way it works is the more popular regions get more land,
while the unpopular ones go out of business.

This results in all regions improving to serve you better.
Everything would get better with this type of competition.

Imagine regions offering to pay your moving expenses, even offering
you a better job, or more, to get you to move to their region.
They know this would be an investment for their future.

The benefits of competition are well documented, now it is
time we start using it for a better life.

Todays system doesn't have real competition because the
unpopular regions just start to go bankrupt,
then reduce services to people,
nothing meaningful changes.

Thats what happens when we have no real competition.
Its the familiar race to the bottom.

We can fix all these problems by using economic regions
that compete with each other.

Any group of people could start and run their
own region.

Some regions could be run by nonprofits, giving
us a higher standard of living.

Even though nobody needs to move, the option is always there,
which means regions have to stay good all the time to avoid
becoming unpopular and going out of business.

Its like every day is election day.

Right now, after election, the promises are forgotten
and there is no hope of improvement for a long time.

A lot more details at:

www.endworldsuffering.org

Betterworld. Not much of late here on lol has sparked much interested lately, however something in what you feel is just a pipedream, and I QUOTE this sentence.........

"Thats what happens when we have no real competition."

I beg the differ, tooo much competition is just what the main problem is and of course miss-management from a too short-slightness top level greed, and just look around you.......but you say there is more we can add to the mess, Iam all ear,s.
\
The way I see it....because of all the competition, NO one can make any real money and some of this has happened never since some bright-spark suggested that we increase child production, which they thought would solve the major problems and keep the cash flows going........but it just didn't work. Now global self-destruction we are seeing. More people the merrier! Yeah right! Now you have the great plain to save all...............A little too late my friend for that don't you think? Wishful-thinking to save the starving people is not for your shoulders for it to rest on...OH NO ...its the smart-arses that are and always have been ruling us, its them that has made this mess, and its them that the broom has to be handed too.

I just love the title............"We can do without professional politicians"...lol....there some of the one,s that helped this mess along, if not fully responsible for. Too many people my friend, and the arm,s contractors have just a little to much sur-plus...and i think you can do the maths on global greed. But just in-case Iam wrong:) how are you going to pull this off?



BLUE

Here is just what we are all facing, and your plan:) Dont get me wrong, hope is all we have.....just ask any religious organization:)

$$$bull$$$$bull$$$$and more bull$$$$+ people= cash! This is your equation, is it not?

6.7 billion people and counting. Here is something to see. How many
seconds is a baby born.

Every five seconds a human baby is born.....and the planet is changing for a dryer system...yes, all ear,s still:)

How many baby's are born each day?

Well it depends what time and when you see how fast humans are growing:)

How many babies are born each week?
2,000,000

How many babies are born each day?
691,200 babies born each year. I think that is a lot of babies!

I don't see many people with babies. I think they must be at home. I mostly would stay home. But, I am not a girl) Thats a joke:)with a point.sssssh:)

How many babies are born a second in the UK?
5 people are born and 3 people die each second

And how many are you going to save?

Please tell us that your the new coming of Christ, which I,ve got marked on my calender......I bit early:)

Mate! If humans dont evolve very quickly out of their childish duals with the mind-sets, time as it comes, will just consume them like all other life before them.

Good luck with your quest.

BLUE

These are the currant pop figs.

Monthly World population figures:

07/01/10 6,852,472,823
08/01/10 6,858,904,297
09/01/10 6,865,335,772
10/01/10 6,871,559,780
11/01/10 6,877,991,255
12/01/10 6,884,215,263
01/01/11 6,890,646,738
02/01/11 6,897,078,213
03/01/11 6,902,887,287
04/01/11 6,909,318,762
05/01/11 6,915,542,770
06/01/11 6,921,974,245
07/01/11 6,928,198,253

And there's not a problem, all-righty then:)Source: U.S. Census Bureau, International Data Base.

World Vital Events Per Time Unit: 2011

(Figures may not add to totals due to rounding)

Natural
Time unit Births Deaths increase

Year 132,697,074 56,260,324 76,436,750
Month 11,058,090 4,688,360 6,369,729
Day 363,554 154,138 209,416
Hour 15,148 6,422 8,726
Minute 252 107 145
Second 4.2 1.8 2.4


Source: U.S. Census Bureau, International Data Base.

http://www.uen.org/themepark/habitat/continents.shtml

http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/popclockworld.html,

Enjoy:)

People of the world. To have a child in these times is suicide for the one you say your giving birth to. Attention to all females! You are the only one,s that can give birth. We are but males, led by a tiny brain between our legs. You have the control of what and how many people are here. Only you have the power of life, not us. Religion trys not to stop more people entering this planet, but we know their out of date thinking's, is just fueling the problems we are seeing.

BLUE

Sorry David f. Your looking in the wrong direction. Greed, and the world knows the Jewish mind-sets David, Money, money, money, which has caused others to disagree with your.....lets say....singular thinking's. No-one own,s this planet. Its only humans that cant play.

The carrot and the donkey...........I think you know the story and how this is not No longer the answer.

The world as one! Funny how the answers are so simple:) but who said humans where simple:).....I think they are just too smart for they own good.

Now! the people can see what we are doing:) but can they see?

Multiculturalism is the blend for that, in the long run, will mix all, so that you and I, in blood.....will be as brother like never before.

Maybe too soon:) But what other choice does mankind have in this time-line? You have no need to answer such questions, time and the pure thought of the mind can and will do this. WHY? its our time to see. Again, sorry for what would seem to be hi jacking your thread, but as you know............all is reflective from where we have come from. Ask yourself this question.......if man is a part of life.........why do we not fit?

BLUE

QUOTE:"because of all the competition, NO one can make any real money "

Thats because today, stores compete for money, not land.

If we change it so companies and nonprofits run a region of land,
and lose the land if they are unpopular,
then they will work very hard to become popular.

Everybody will get more of everything including money.

Regions will make all kinds of improvements to stay popular.

According to my plans, any group could start and run their own region.
The more popular it becomes, the more land it gets.

if you were to start and run your own region, what would it be like?

Betterworld......I wish you all the best......I have heard of small towns dieing out and offering homes for a dollar, but that's the best understanding I have for you, unless you lay out your plan here for all to see what and how this will work. Good luck.

BLUE

Deep Blue wrote:

"Your looking in the wrong direction. Greed, and the world knows the Jewish mind-sets"

Dear Deep Blue,

There are many Jewish mind-sets. Just as Christians, atheists, Hindus, etc. have different mind-sets so do Jews. The bigoted, prejudiced world knows the Jewish mind-sets. Thinking people don't lump all of a particular religion or ethnicity together. They know that a label doesn't define a person. They know that one Jew is different from another Jew just as one Christian is different from another Christian.

My plan is the land is divided into economic regions.

A different organization runs each region and makes the
laws and rules for that region.

Some regions are run by nonprofits, some by companies, others by
local governments.
You could run your own region if you wanted.

Some regions would do a better job than we have today.

In other words, some regions would have higher pay rates,
a better economy, a more efficient system.
It would be more fun to live in those regions.

So those regions get more land (they started small).

This is competition, and results in improvements.

I think David F is right, we don't need professional
politicians.

The regions run by nonprofits would have more good times
and more fun, they would be great places to live.

Everybody would benefit from this system.

There are a lot of details needed to get it started and
make it work, you can read the details at my website
if you want:

www.endworldsuffering.org

So I would like to ask everybody,
if you were running your own region of land, how would
you do it?

What improvements would you make, compared
to the way everything is run now?

David.........you know how the world works. The lab;els are in fact a product of what humans are, and labels would constitute our mentality of our present evolutionary small-mindfulness:) David.f......I ask you this question. How many ban-aids can be administrated, before someone see,s AID will no-longer heal the festering sore? I think most would know by to-nights....lets say rants and testing s, that the 360 is nothing more than a circle.

Mountains out of mole hills was the line of, however not a bad bet;) I think land as it is, holds great promise to the eye:) I,ll leave it there I think.

It doesn't hurt to think big, but wise:) I mean....this is how we got here, was it not.

BLUE

betterworld
You have come up with an interesting concept about using competition to work to the people's advantage (as long as there is no cartel or 'fixing' of sorts between all the landowners in that scenario ie. removing choice from the equation).

The issue is as always about distribution of power. We have become less of a pluralistic society, governments becoming open to abuse by those heavily geared interest groups.

The success of a happy society (I reckon) lies in a mixture of individual and collective benefits. eg. some things best left to the people through government such as universal health care, law enforcement, retirement, education, energy but with greater involvement of people. And some things left to private groups, business and individuals, so that revenue (the pool) can best be used for quality care in those essential areas. That is, some spheres of life should not be subject to a pure profit motive. Too much is spent of window dressing and vote buying guff, get rid of the waffle and wah wah programs marketed to the LCD factor, and get on with providing value for money in those esesential services and let creative individuals do the rest.

Get rid of the notion of shareholder and focus more on people as employees, family members, or even dare I say it, consumers. Provide a mix of incentives for entrepreneurism and innovation but work to remove the huge wage disparities. The health of nations tend to hinge on that gap.

Too many issues to go into, but in terms of david f's premise maybe we could elect representatives but have citizens involved in parliament as well to introduce legislation or a petition, a referendum etc. It might be unwieldy but there has to be a way to facilitate more involvement from ordinary people - democracy hinges on that premise.

Dear Deep-Blue,

I disagree. The labels are quite often not what people are at all. Often they are the product of prejudice and ignorance.

as if we needed another reason not to hire
pro polititions..[prostitutes]

Naomi Klein: "Shock Doctrine"
Unleashed by Right-Wingers in Wisconsin and Throughout the Country

For decades right-wing ideologues have exploited crises to push through an agenda that has nothing to do with resolving those crises. Wisconsin is no different.

AMY GOODMAN: As a wave of anti-union bills are introduced across the country in the wake of the Great Recession, many analysts are picking up on the theory that award-winning journalist and author Naomi Klein first argued in her bestselling book The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism.

In it, she reveals how those in power use times of crisis to push through undemocratic, radical, free market economic policies...

continues at link

http://www.alternet.org/story/150187/naomi_klein%3A_%22shock_doctrine%22_unleashed_by_right-wingers_in_wisconsin_and_throughout_the_country?akid=6660.231843.RmczrO&rd=1&t=6

or watch vidio
http://videosift.com/video/The-Shock-Doctrine-documentary

or how about the leaked documents
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/03/15/leaked-cable-japanese-lawmaker-pointed-to-cover-up-of-nuclear-accidents/
http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2035046&cid=35472690

or robo signers?
http://dailybail.com/slideshows/foreclousre-fraud-documents/8167411

hello serf
http://poorrichards-blog.blogspot.com/2011/03/welcome-to-new-fascist-feudal-system.html

no charges for leighmans lies
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703597804576194871565429108.html

i see nothing
http://dailybail.com/home/rajat-gupta-timeline-of-insider-trading-case-against-former.html
http://dailybail.com/home/the-unbearable-lightness-of-tarp-reporting.html

bahrain [use nerve gas mate]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqhw_D_GZt0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIJIPEdsDCo

more faulse flags
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12746333
http://revolutionarypolitics.tv/video/viewVideo.php?video_id=14301

semite ethnic cleansing
http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2011/03/15/erasing-a-land-and-its-people/
http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2011/03/15/suspect-in-settlement-murders-not-a-palestinian-army-silent-on-this/

tsa [scanners cook the books]
http://revolutionarypolitics.com/?p=4893

heck why bother right
http://dailybail.com/home/world-stock-markets-slide-nikkei-futures-down-16.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms-uOoDj2fQ
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/rule-48-invoked

yes we can do without proffesionals
that allow this*
to be reasonable

David f,

Agreed. We don't need professional politicians. We do need politicians to be professional.

Australia's form of representative democracy seems to have 'worked' for the most part. I regard it as a reasonable model of government – in the sense of – the best of less-than-ideal options.

Is there an ideal option? Yes. Unfortunately, it is the same ideal that every other citizen of our nation wants: that the parliament always thinks, talks and acts as I would were I the government. Whilst we're all waiting for that to happen…

Back here in the real world I concluded the problem is, most politicians only care about representing the members of the electorate once every four years with the rest of the time spent busily representing their party and, selfishly, representing themselves within it. To survive as a professional politician they need first to look after themselves and their political party and lastly to look after those who elected them.

Voters, I contend, seek politicians whose primary focus is to serve their electorate and to do so professionally.

I've tried to think of the simplest change to our current structure of government which I think will have the biggest improvement in the quality of governance.

This is it so far:

"A person who is a member of a political party may only be elected for a single term of government."

cont.

Three initial reasons in support of this:

It is democratic. Anyone would still be able to nominate for every election as an independent and with any set of policies they wished.
Political parties continue, but not as before if they wish to survive. Fewer opportunities to reward 'political mates' because any individual party member has left after one term in office even if the electorate continues to vote that party a majority.
It alters the extra-parliamentary position and powers the executive branch of government has gleaned for itself over the past 40 years.

I have other thoughts about the topic you started here, but I suspect they can be saved for other opportunities online. I hadn't discovered this thread until a few hours ago and suspect I may have missed the boat...but I thought your proposition important and wanted to try to contribute.

hi win
you say ""We don't need professional politicians.
We do need politicians to be professional""

thats where we went wrong
they need to stop professing
[stop saying we believe in the people
when all they really care about is getting elected
[getting into power...getting the benifits of office etc]

im sick of giving monkeys
gold bars and honour stars

its time their feet where held to the flame
took on responsability [accountability]
as well as felt blame and shame

electing people for one term
is one term too much for most
so much dammage can be done in one term
[look at the last term of the howard years]

opolitical parties ill allways be arround
politricks is a numbers game,..
only parties can deliver the numbers

look arround your electroate..it will have at least ten and more likely many more places to vote from..each booth needs to be manned

[its a numbers game]polititions need supporters in numbers..just to man the booths[or scrutenise the votes recieved][its a dirty game]

there will allways be people to 'reward'
thats how the game is played

to get real change we need to get rid of the others
that get their mate elected..[so their mates gives them their kickback]..thats where the parties are so clever

no-one can get elected
without others helping

its the helpers
[the faceless backdoor men..
who control the member]

or get their next patsy elected

go into any parlement
you wouldnt vote for any of em

they need to sellout just to get nominated
have had to sell out to get elected

dont save your thoughts
the topic may never come up again

as your new here
know..

30 days without a response
and..the topic simply dies..goes away
also many prefer to not reply..[it goes away quicker]