Around the world at the moment there's a real move in various nations for a shift to democracy. This is great news for the people of these nations who have been under the weight of totalitarianism for way too long. Probably longer than many can remember. The thing is, from my point of view, is that the reality of democracy isn't what we would really hope it to be. The theory is great, and so is the basic reality, but JUST underneath it all is the truth of capitalism and the power brokers of big business dictating the rules. Just look at how Gillard got into 'power' - I don't believe she is really running the show - and the reality of our society. We don't vote for the best party. We don't vote for the best person to lead these parties. We vote for the lesser of a very limited selection of evils and in reality we have very limited say in the direction of this nation.

If we were to offer the people of these nations attempting to find their idea of freedom, what advice could we offer them?

StG,

Probably the same advice as we should give ourselves - work hard at it and never rest on your laurels. In an imperfect world, in which capitalism looks likely to be present for some time yet, be aware of all the pitfalls and possibilities for corruption, anti-democratic behaviour, complacency and petty in-fighting. It's a process which is never finished, a work-in-progress, not a finishing line that you cross and it's all smooth sailing from then on.

And probably a major danger to democracy is the garbling of metaphors by smug commentators.

Joe

Thanks Stg for this post , a fascinating question.

I think I would like to know in a nutshell, "what is it that most people want", before I answered this question

I confident I know what that is, but I have no idea how to prove it.

I think we all want civil liberty. This goal is prevented for most people by a conga line of control freaks.

My father used to say that, "People who seek power, are nearly always the least qualified to have it". Or words to that effect.

Freedom was achieved, (in my fathers belief) by certain basic understandings applying to all people. He believed it was the responsibility of Gov't to supply the basics of civilisation such as access to health care, education, infrastructure, essential services etc, equal opportunity, and that good Govt's maintained, and assured it's populace of such services.

He fought for this Australia, that one that once was, and it's values.

Of course capitalism virtually ensures that this set of principals is destroyed.

Are capitalism and democracy capable of co-existence?, of course they're not; they are in fact at cross purposes, simply because human greed is a fundamental barrier to the freedom of most people. Power and money are the same thing. The people with the most freedom are the people possessing the most wealth.

George Bush explained in his defining speech that his constituents were the haves and the have mores. What a fine leader among people, someone we should all aspire to be : not!.

In a sickening piece of American propaganda re "the National parks" on SBS recently, I witnessed the orator claiming the America's national parks defined the spirit of their people and nation. Of course capitalism would have had these wild places exploited for the benefit of the few, as was the case with Niagara Falls, but one forward thinking member of congress found a way round this and introduced the precedent and concept that some things are beyond capitalism. This is one of the few times that democracy actually worked.

Nearby the national parks, America's successive Govt's, have allowed capitalist enterprises such as mining companies, to pollute the environment of their people and country so comprehensively that the drinking water causes cancer.

The people who live in these area's, whom own their properties, have worthless land, and little or no opportunity to fix this, because the capitalist juggernaut has priority in the eyes of their masters, Congress.

Democracy and capitalism working against each other.

Can we have a poll, that asks the question" what is it that you want from democracy"
No we can't, because this is the last thing the powerful would want.

Civil freedom and the guarantee of the basics in life, is all any individual requires to make their own decisions.

If I may plagiarise and quote the words of this worlds Poet Laureat. A musician whose music is so beautiful that defies imagination, Leonard Cohen, from his song "Democracy".

"I'm sentimental if you know what I mean
I love the country but I can't stand the scene
And I'm neither left or right I'm just staying home tonight,
Getting lost in that hopeless little screen
but I'm stubborn as those garbage bags that time cannot decay
I'm junk, but I'm still holding up, this little wild bouquet
Democracy is coming to the USA

It's coming through a hole in the air
From those nights in Tianiman Square
It's coming from the field, and this ain't exactly real
Or it's real though it ain't exactly there
From the war against disorder, from the sirens night and day
From the fires of the homeless, from the ashes of decay
Democracy is coming to the USA".

And so on. The classic battle between Democracy and Capitalism lain bare in the language of the layman.

I'm saying Stg there is an alternative, "Democracy without Capitalism".

I think this is what most people would want, if they had that opportunity.

what advice?

sure here goes

demonic autocracy :
de-moc-racy..is a three thimbles ..and one pea trick
played with two thimbles ..and no pea

you are chosing

wether to get slapped
by the left hand ..or the right
[they will take turns]

you will still be policed ..by the same 'service'
serving your leaders adgenda...or big business..but never yours

the media will decide who gets elected
it will make their current champion glow..and the other appear to be serving the darkside..in time the voting machines will decide the issue and 51 percent of ignorants will vicyimise the other 49 percent

govt will follow the adgenda of the swinning voters
and check everything via focus groups to find the right word
that hides their real adgenda

you will hear such wonderous words such as ..'work choices'
but thats not about workers chosing ..or having choice

you will hear about family values..
but never which families values

you will hear im ruling for all of us
but we will be lorded over by them
the only change is the leaders

you will still have the same public servants serving others

they will claim trickle down
allways payed for by those
barely holding their heads abouve the water's

[water's dont trickle up]..
but fat rises upon the waters
scum floats ..poluting the fat..turning it into render..[unto seizer]