The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > General Discussion > Gillard Labor and the Union movement.

Gillard Labor and the Union movement.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. All
Julia, at last is showing what I saw in her just before the Kevin 07 election.
She is no protector of workers rights, rather sell her self than the justice she once fought so hard for.
In part she may well have a point,not all union input in to the party unions founded is worth while.
However her comments re Howes and Ludwig are quite gutless.
I do not call for more mining tax,while the first deal was fairer this one unsettles the self interests of miners and share holders,mostly over seas less.
But on a day Labor tables its reforms, aimed at rebuilding the party and dropping union influence in its child, not all is fine.
Can we look at now,not unions distant past,and the difference in unions not just the bad,and there are many, unions.
AWU conference saw the best of unions being represented by the future leaders of this country.
Gillard in my view is not part of that future.
Posted by Belly, Friday, 18 February 2011 2:31:06 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi Bells.

she is doing what the focus groups and survey's are telling her mate.

Politics is about numbers.. you know that.

She has been told "In the marginal seats you rely on.. significant numbers of people perceive labor as a 'front for unions' and refuse to vote for them. (I'm talking 'swinging' voters here)

It works like this:

1/ Traditional vote is secure. Parties don't need to worry about it. (Safe seats)

2/ Elections are won/lost based on 'swinging' voters, not the traditional base.

3/ If 1 & 2 above are true, then the public pronouncements of Parties will reflect NOT there traditional brand, but the opinions of those SWINGING voters.

I now pronounce you 'fixed' :)
Posted by ALGOREisRICH, Saturday, 19 February 2011 4:29:29 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Many issues for one thread.
One outstanding fact, Gillard is divisive, she can not unite my party, but can add to the fact we are seen to be moving away from our history.
Union involvement the pros and cons, there are many, on both sides.
Having given birth to the party unions once held far too much power within the party.
This power has been used to harm as often as help the ALP.
Unions are the foot soldiers of the party.
far too often Parliament has been the reward for some true failures from the union movement, a reward to move them on to new grounds to fail in.
Some true left who inhabit in both groups are of no use to the movements they live in.
Crean, came from unions group and while doing a reasonable job,like his mentor, or is it the other way around? Gillard, has no loyalty to the ladder he climbed to get in the Parliament.
I welcome the inquiry,even Gillards unfocused rock throwing at Howes but note much of the failure in this Parliament and the last lives still in her Cabernet not the rank and file.
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 19 February 2011 4:45:02 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Gillard has her faults but she is light-years ahead of Howes.

I could not believe his little dummy spit:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/02/16/3140097.htm
--"monkeys could do a better job of managing Rio Tinto"
--"You cannot hide behind your slimy, grubby mates in the Coalition because we're coming after you,"

Is this how a future national leader talks?

If Howes is the best Labor can do re finding a “man of the future” ---the Liberals have nothing to worry about.
Posted by SPQR, Saturday, 19 February 2011 7:33:16 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
julia isnt the problem
she has been targeted even has been mind controlled..[set up]
her partner is her minder..dumping him would see ..the old julia return to her roots..

this is a global cabal that runs the boys club globally
it works by setting out to seduce likely woman..and installing a minder over them..then getting them elected

we had enough of blokes
think woman couldnt possably be 'in' the boys club
but fail to look at their minders/partners advisers and peers

look kevi was too much a loose cannon
they wanted a mind controled slave
julia was it...

[but not julia alone...look for the female cauchus;held in womans rest rooms now ..apparently..each doing their minder's bidding]

its not easy to seduce a woman
but get a loyal one...re programe em
well it works

we dont need to get rid of julia
just get rid of the minders

ps the union movement sold out the workers long ago
the party is only after workers to man the booth's[blog] etc

no one gets a say on party policy
or what the caucus is doing
because the minders want it that way

party policy is treason to the people govt is meant to serve
its time we abolished all parties..thats the root of the problem

what next..is too easy
those wanting to serve the people
do a course...
[all nomitations for any govt dept/office/position]

those who ...*top the course..get the job

thus we get the best ..doing their best
[by contracted terms]

and get rid of the party boy dross
filling the benches ..with two party/boys clubssscumm
[as in that fluffy dross currently foating abouve it all]

[filling bums on seats..but little else
except improving their party loyalty pact]
for future honours

..and a future seat ..on a public board
or nice subsised pension benifits..

for a job not propiatiously done
for the good of the people..

nor their common wealth..
common weal-trust]
Posted by one under god, Saturday, 19 February 2011 7:34:55 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I have read,then read again every word written here,SPQR wins the most remote from reality one.
Yep under stand what I said, Paul Howes is not yet running for office.
His union has our next leader already in the house Bill Shorten, Howes sin? being honest speaking the truth.
Reo Tinto has as one of its big share holders our blessed English queen.
And will carry out any dirty deed to stop its workers being paid going rates.
OUG you win an Honorable mention, if fact I cheated.
What part should unions play in the future.
How honest is the review in saying branches will change, from the private property they so very often are.
The very elderly and very unaware are wheeled in on election night to vote as told.
Left controlled branches have more refugees than active members.
Recent party history has seen branches ignored and star candidates given a seat, even not being members of the party until weeks before being put in.
Why not mention the seat holders who bought about the last election result, and sponsored the death of branch system.
Why did those we put in power fight so much they left ETS and so much more to rot on the ground.
Lost membership from 2007 was not lost, it was driven out the door by force.
Even now, the thing most responsible for the death in NSW Obied is trying to betray us again, installing his grubs in the half cricket team we will have left.
Change HQ change the perceived ownership young upwardly mobile suits claims or forget rebuilding.
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 19 February 2011 10:05:52 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
OUG:>>julia isnt the problem she has been targeted even has been mind controlled.. her partner is her minder..dumping him would see ..the old julia return to her roots..<<

Here are Julia’s roots:

Wikki:>> Julia Gillard graduated the University of Melbourne with Bachelor of Arts and Bachelor of Laws<<

OUG if you are intimating that Julia has somewhere "common" or "of the people" to return to, she has not.

Those early 80's Chardonnay years in uni and the Fabianesque banter that generation of young Labor was indoctrinated in gave Julia the perspective she carries now. That perspective is, I am intelligent and I know of the bigger picture and the pleb does not, so I make decisions for the uninformed rank and file, as they could not possibly understand the game plan in holistic terms. They do not listen to their local branches.

This government has no thought to public service in terms of infrastructure and real benefit such as Medicare, just UN bullsheiser issues such as asylum seekers. Charity and compassion should start at home, so why is it that four years into Labors terms do we still have aboriginal children dying at third world mortality rates? Who is Labor, what is Labor?

The focus is on minority issues from minority groups who Labor hope to attract as a voting bloc, at the cost of the traditional Labor voter, who is usually a struggling part of the majority who idiotically respond to rhetoric from their perceived “side” of politics. The average sod in the western suburbs of our cities is not talking about broadband or the Carbon tax and certainly not talking about Tim Flannery who this very week was appointed "Carbon Tax King" and receives $180,000 a year for a three day week to work out how much tax the average Labor supporter on $50K a year should pay.

Labor has to decide whose side they are on rather than trying to attract a side. So OUG Julia has nowhere to retreat to, she is there, regardless of the manipulation of the penis thruster she currently shares digs with.
Posted by sonofgloin, Saturday, 19 February 2011 11:02:59 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
heir of the golin ..thanks for the info

i will admit i was biased ..in favour of julia
because she conned my party machine [the h.e.m.p party]..

sadly many i respect ..have been decieved ..
i see behind much of it the hand of the friends of zionist bankers media..via their sock puppet[the usa]

[who have managed to thwart the intent/purpose/reason and reasoning of ..even my party]...

formerly i was a labourite [union]loyalist..
[their PARTY-policy ..was elimination of the self same drug laws..

i was assured by the then leader tom burns..all i needed do was help them get into power and labour policy would fix the injustice

but then came the disolution of the nats..
and their takeover of labor..

we all know the fruit of the goss gloss loins..[the pm who was rejected by even his own party].. the signs should have been clear..beatup peter was a chief lawyer in the joe trial farce

anyhow it all helps to open my eyes
but for my life experience i might still be like bellies

but that wasnt to be
wasnt allowed to be

just as workers empowerment isnt allowed to be
unionists are now a tool of oppression
and while belly might be right
i also fear he is wrong

belly is old school
this new labor is a joke
no loyalty..many never worn a blue collar ever
or served let alone joined in any REAL union

they are sanctymonious high partying two party priests
serving party systems for those who empower polititions
or serve party machinations or publicking servants..

but never the people

the only sure change
can be no change...
or the appearance of change

it all depends on how the pr machine decides to spin it
regardless of how/if.. the unionists lol..are allowed to vote on it
Posted by one under god, Saturday, 19 February 2011 11:48:12 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
*And will carry out any dirty deed to stop its workers being paid going rates.*

Come on Belly, time to get real now. Howe's outburst was nothing
but a good old bit of 70s style sabre rattling. We have a right
to expect more intelligence from union leaders, then what his little
joke of a display was all about.

I remind you that most Rio workers are earning 6 figures, train
drivers over 200k $ a year, most of it negotiated without union
involvement.

Howe is a bit cheeky to talk of "shiny arses". What about his
shiny arse?

Rio is owned by all sorts of investors, most likely including
your super fund.

What % of workers are in unions? Clearly leaders like Howe, don't
even impress potential members.

After his little outburst, I'd run a mile from joining his union.
Gillard can clearly negotiate and understands the power of
people skills. Your old union seemingly does not.
Posted by Yabby, Saturday, 19 February 2011 1:11:44 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
To me the most impressive member of the Labour party that I have observed is Stephen Smith. Watching him on Q & A and his refusal to play dirty politics recently was refreshing. I know little about him but he certainly comes across as genuine.
Posted by runner, Saturday, 19 February 2011 1:49:44 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Belly is a little depressed i say. Julia is doing fair as i am concerned. Her union backings has got to be balanced, things have moved on since the 70's. As far as julia's bed buddy goes i think she would see through any intended influence he was trying to propel. [Not on the same page.] When you look around parliament is at a very difficult stage. The opposite side has not recognized that the election has been won. Probably get worse when the greens come in around july.
Julia is a very approachable and intelligent fem;
You have to give votes for negotiation, and guts, no matter what party you prefer.
Posted by 579, Saturday, 19 February 2011 2:14:59 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Well there it goes, out the window and fly away.
Any chance of reasonable debate, ideas and thoughts about these subjects.
ONE Gillard is no ones puppet, my dislike of her is she is as close to what Rudd was as any woman could be.
So dump the rubbish.
So what did she do wrong by the wacky backy party OUG? not keeping up with the medication vegetation mob these days.
Yabby, tell us all you know about Paul Howes, whoops, sorry forgot that was it in with some miss information.
Sonofgloin face it, hard but true, this thread could have been about the other side,your side.
Yes read your claim about Social Democrat but you sound unlike that.
My grief with Labor is not from my understanding Labor can never return to the old party.
It is driven by DISGUST! Rudd wimped out did much, but in his words the most important issue in the world and he did nothing.
Gillard was part of that gutless act.
She DID SAY why waste money on pensioners in Cabernet.
She is only in front in polling because Abbott is so disliked.
And the plans to rebirth party membership are as likely to fail if she continues to lead.
Try this, find the AWU National page.
Read Paul Howes stored statements/speeches then Shortens, then ask why we have a leader who is unconcerned about workers and pensioners.
Has to be pushed by greens to get an ETS, who thinks the answer is to stifle comments from union heads/party members.
Julia Gillard would sell her partner and you and me if it kept power in her hands.
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 19 February 2011 3:49:54 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
*Yabby, tell us all you know about Paul Howes, whoops, sorry forgot that was it in with some miss information*

Belly, one word describes it all really, he is arrogant!

Just like the militant union officials of the bad old times.
Sounds more like a Trot then anything.

But he's only a young whipper snapper of 30. So has lots to
learn. Perhaps he could learn a bit from those wiser leaders,
like Hawke or even Gillard.

Gillard actually has people skills. Howe still has to learn
what that means. Arrogance alone won't do it for him, even if
it impresses you.
Posted by Yabby, Saturday, 19 February 2011 5:21:45 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi Belly:

I'm back - earlier than I expected. Anyway, I was under the impression that Bracks, Faulkner and Carr were heading some sort of a team to look at ways that Labor can be improved. Back to the grass roots, so to speak. To try to find ways to encourage new membership, find ways to improve the party, get the communities involved and so on. Do you know more about any of this - and how will this affect the Union movement? As far as Howes is concerned - it's early days yet - and it would seem that he hasn't been there long enough to warm the seat - his turn may well come - but not just yet, I'd say.
Posted by Lexi, Sunday, 20 February 2011 1:56:13 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
cont'd ...

Belly:

The following link puts a rather good take on things:

http://newmatilda.com/2011/02/18/the-only-way-is-up
"The Only Way Is Up," by Ben Eltham. 18th Feb. 2011.
Posted by Lexi, Sunday, 20 February 2011 2:33:28 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Welcome back Lexi and good morning Yabby.
How do I start? I have watched PauL Howes from the shadows from the days he was not much more than a kid.
Hand picked by Bill Shorten he shares the ability's, and ego both men rightly have.
His policy's,stated often ,include Nuclear power for Australia.
He in my view, would tremble in rage at my views on boat people, he is a thinking human.
His exposure at the AWU conference was,for some, the first look at him, not for me.
He has a strong case yabby,your noted protection and support for miners operating in WA concerns me, true.
Rio Tinto are as described some past actions are far worse than ANY UNIONS.
One day this great country must confront this state against state thing.
The divide [ mostly one way] WA against the rest is xenophobic.
Wise Men From the East is the tag for the whole east coast states"?
CHILDLIKE!
We are one country that country belongs to us all, its minerals however are mostly going overseas, we do very well, but can we do better.
Is it true world wide moves are under way to see miners every miner every country leave more than holes in the ground?
Posted by Belly, Monday, 21 February 2011 5:20:46 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Perhaps you have all missed the point of Howe's rant at Rio.
His aim was not Rio itself but the Aluminium industry where he is
trying to get more than 50% union members so he can take over wages
and conditions negotiations.

Does this seem feasible Belly ?

btw going on Sunday ?
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 21 February 2011 9:45:57 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Bazz, yes Howe wants union control of aluminium, there was an article
about it in last weekend's AFR. But that does not excuse his
childish behaviour.

Where has Howe ever shown, that he can actually run a business?

So much for his criticisms.

Belly is making this guy out to be a great future leader. IMHO
Belly is either easily pleased or easily fooled.
Posted by Yabby, Monday, 21 February 2011 10:35:21 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Bazz love to but not sure look for my shirt love to see you.
yabby you do under stand I respect even like you?
And that I have as many mates on conservatives side of the fence as mine, real mates.
My understanding is deeper than yours, for a short time, unknown to my boss I serviced the Aluminum industry for the bloke who should have.
We had big membership in my area.
Rio Tinto has many brands many faces, it and the American owned aluminum together drove acts of unwed parents on workers using Howard's workchoices, this national conference is the first I did not go to in ten years.
I have an understanding you must earn, try reading the National AWU page .
Lexi, I put this up because in part of the report in to rebuilding my party.
My unhappiness, some times bitterness, is because it must have life, it has to be said far more than unions play a roll in the bad things within the ALP.
TWO of our best came from the left, nearly broke my fingers in saying that BUT IT IS true, not Gillard wrong category, Greg Combet and a great man ex Senator Faulkner.
Some are dead in the head and some are from my faction, Parliament has been a dumping ground for failures too.
In saying this open debate,rebuilding after the NSW death march will be the start of re birthing my party, but room for a true look exists.
Posted by Belly, Monday, 21 February 2011 12:39:45 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Parliamentary question time was well worth a watch, this retirement game is ok.
Gillard, our fill in leader went ok.
But extraordinarily bad performance by Christopher Pyne, as usual,, stood out.
Bought this thought when will we see a look from the other side of politics at their team.
Pyne looked much like a cheeky school kid grinning at his own mischievous child like behavior,just think I once thought he had stature,we all get it wrong at times.
Gillard again used what she sees as the high moral ground on multi culturism.
I just think she has the maths wrong, more votes are lost by white wash than hearing every opinion.
Posted by Belly, Monday, 21 February 2011 4:41:32 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Belly:

You're far more knowledgeable in politics than I am. All I can do is read up on various opinions and then make up my mind by what I feel makes the most sense to me. I'm not disheartened by politics at the moment as I still think it's early days yet. Have a read of the link I gave earlier of Ben Eltham's article for New Matilda. He seems to have a very balanced take on things.
Posted by Lexi, Monday, 21 February 2011 6:17:53 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Belly, I like you too bloke, but that has nothng to do with what
we are discussing.

I simply don't see the world of black and white as you do. Fact
is that Rio are pretty active over here in the West and I know a
few people who work for or who have worked for them. Now every
large organisastion will have critics or mistakes that they have
made in the past. Name me one that has not. But by and large
people who work for Rio are pretty content with their treatment
by the company. They are extremely well paid too, without union
involvement.

I know of a case where a bloke who had worked for them for a long
time, became extremely sick, nothing to do with his job. Rio
wore some big bills on his behalf, all voluntary.

So its not all black and white as your mate Howes wants to make
out. He claims to dislike Albanese. IMHO a professional
negotiator should keep his feelings to himself and not let them
get in the way of his professional standing.

But of course some union thugs will try and further the "them and
us" concept to justify their job, as they jockey for position
with other union bosses. Talk about shiny arses.

What we need is intelligent union leaders. Not thugs.
Posted by Yabby, Monday, 21 February 2011 6:35:54 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
yabby good story and I can both respect them for it and tell 100 more just like it.
A great once Australian owned firm took a good worker under its arm.
he was hurt while driving with a few beers in him, after work.
Even went [a great man and boss] to hospital that night and to his wife every day.
We must understand this.
Not many bosses are different, big firms would fight to the death to keep a few bob in their pockets but spend like a drunk in cases like this,some of those spend from a community fund, others from a fund to promote public support.
Polls this morning put Labor in front again.
Abbott lost 3 points.
Gillard;looks good ,against him, but we will be in interesting times soon Abbott's style is infecting his party.
Maybe we will see an uprising here, in conservative ranks.
I wish all freedom fighters them included well
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 6:27:46 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy