To be an Aboriginal Australian in Northern Australia is no picnic. Despite ostensibly holding some rights with regard to the mineral wealth that is being ripped from the ground, the endemic racism, nepotism and corruption, is beyond the capacity of people to just grin and accept.

In the Northern Territory, a Police Officer fires wildly into a crowd, killing an Indigenous Man, he escapes prosecution because his colleagues failed to lay charges within two months. In Queensland, Sgt. Hurley avoids conviction on Manslaughter, because of a lack of intent, the jury never having been instructed that in injuring a prisoner and failing to seek aid for the same, the verdict of manslaughter (which does not require intent to begin with) was open to them. Then the elephant in the room, that Sgt. Hurley gave 3-4 different versions of events under oath, yet is not charged with perjury?

Still the majority of Australian's wonder why Indigenous People have no respect for the "Rule of Law", rather simple really, they are not equal before the law, Police are entitled, by virtue of long practice, to flout the law at will. Respect at any time is a two-way Street, having been lost it has to be re-earned.

The endemic corruption & nepotism on communities sees the vast bulk of money's spent there being siphoned into the pockets of the fortunate few (many of whom are in positions of trust despite multiple charges of dishonesty & fraud)... Why? They are quite easy to deal with and will sell out their communities with little to no compunction whatever.

The "Rule of Law" is a presumptive right under our Constitution, if push comes to shove, can the Commonwealth come to the aid of a State/Territory acting contrary to the same?

It is not an Academic question, there are some rather interesting ores in the Northern half of this Country, which many Countries in our region would dearly love to access. These same Countries would not be averse to assisting anyone who could provide them beneficial access to strategic assets.

Is that blunt enough?

On face value, if true it is a dreadful story, the known to be true story about what I see as murder of the man in the back of that prison van too.
Are we to look truly at this dreadful situation?
Why are these people,even in near city shanty towns still living in these conditions.
Why are so many never to work never to send kids to school often enough for them to learn even to read.
I think it can not all be placed on white Australians.
How deep is our understanding of the issue.
Have you stood along side a man and defended him for his fourth charge of drink driving in his bosses car, seen him rant and rave, while quite sober at his work mates who tried to hide him for years?
How about twenty such cases ? from a pool of 145?
White man can be blamed in part we pay educators extra for handling
" problem children" why not rewards for teaching?
We hide behind invasion talk and the sins of long dead men but walk around both sides wrongs today.
I insist on a better life safer life for these folk and PC is stopping it happening.
Every human deserves better but every single one should be accountable for our every action.

BELLY,
Have you been hit by lightning ? I couldn't agree more with your post !

Aaron... contrast your statement

Still the majority of Australian's wonder why Indigenous People have no respect for the "Rule of Law", rather simple really, they are not equal before the law,

with this: (BLack racially abuses white)

http://www.acrawsa.org.au/files/49OConnellPinnedLikeaButterflyFINAL.pdf Page 7

For their social dominance, ill-defined
boundaries and internal diversity as a
group, Brown FM finds that whites should
not be able to invoke the racial hatred
provisions of the Racial Discrimination
Act.

Do you SEE it ? "whites"....no protection.

I am absolutely livid about that ...and am quietly pursuing the issue behind the scenes.

and you wonder why WHITE people have no respect for the rule of law ?

Aaron 1975:

It is difficult to remove the emotive from individual cases of abuse by Police. But I believe the fault is cultural bias. Role reversal may be a solution to the Aboriginal “problem”.

E.G: Uniformed and armed Aboriginal police could be recruited to control drunken street mobs in our cities, unleashing the occasional round into the crowd in order to subdue riot. Of course the contingent would be given special privileges through our court system to ensure they return to the job ASAP.

P.S. Of course we could call on the assistance of the Army at any time to assist them with peace keeping. (A little known fact that occurs in NT at present).

Don't worry Aaron you won't be the only lot selling off Australia's mineral wealth. The Australian Government has beaten you to it.

I tend to agree with Belly. In life there are two sides generally to a situation. For the Indigenous people I reckon there is not much more that white man can do except protect aboriginal people from harm through law enforcement in the same way that all Australians are protected and to provide health care etc. The rest has to be up to the aboriginal people - it has to be a two way street.

That said, there needs to be more respectful behaviours toward aboriginal people. Human beings generally do not give respect until they are shown it, act responsibly until they are given responsibility. Handouts beget dependency not self-sufficiency in many cases unless it is a hand-up.

The gentleman who died in the back of the van was horrific and inhumane and displayed a severe lack of human regard.

The rule of law should always apply and people (all Australians)should take responsibility for their actions.

I am just so over this racial idiocy. Why don't outsiders go to indigenous communities & live & work there for a few years. Do your job, don't exploit the place & then see where racism radiates from.
Same goes for the indigenous in the cities.
You will find that all this racism gets created in Urbania & then gets exported to the communities by people sent there to work but are utterly unsuitable & unwilling to live there.
the average cause of this pseudo racism is largely a product of idealistic but ignorant leftism.

The alcohol industry needs to be put “on the wagon” along with other illegal drugs. Aboriginal communities are simply the obvious tip of the ice burg; the front runners of the broader social calamity of alcohol abuse in all our society.

Again, reverse the rolls:

Aboriginal Elders given power to prohibit alcohol consumption in white communities throughout Australia. The desperate move is hoped to quell drunken and abusive behaviour and child abuse in those white communities. The move will improve productivity by encouraging all whites to return to work and get themselves off the dependence of social security.

(very popular, I don’t think)

I am very much aware, yes I am, my views are not shared by all, others will have better answers than me.
But even in its short life this thread shows evidence some are blind to things as they are.
I THINK, TRULY, we are not truly interested in lifting ABORIGINALS out of the dreadful conditions they live in.
My parents had to send me to school force was used, I had to distribute the milk and burn the waste in the incinerator!, passed only those two classes.
Real life we hide behind fear we may offend, do you want to hear to know? or just judge?
A young lady very drunk for the second time relieved her self at the bar of a local pub,she was ejected and barred won a discrimination case forcing hers self back in the bar called every one white sons of unwed parents did it again, not Urbain legend fact every day fact.
We owe our first Australians a job, a home a school health we owe them equality.
They owe us nothing less or more than the bloke next door.
Educate the kids stop laughing at them stealing our cars, breaking in to our homes.
STOP acting more racist than the KKK based on the view White Australia is always the reason they fall over.
WE MUST not except the status quo but we MUST stop excepting down right racism in our streets from people who know no better.

Aboriginals in remote, or for that matter any communities should be given the choice. To stay on their land in their original state or come to town & have equal rights as the white man.

This means, those who chose to stay in their original state would have not contact with the white population or aboriginal peoples who choose to stay in a white community. Their land would be their own & white people or those that chose not to go would be banned from entering for ever. If they change their mind they can't go back, either way. Anything of western origin is to be removed from the land, eg, Tinnies, western styled fishing lines & nets, No rifles, metal knives cooking utensiles, etc, western styled housing, blankets, food stuffs, alcohol or clothing. They should go back to their original state as before white man. They would be subject to their own Aboriginal Law.

Those who choose to adopt a western lifestyle should get no special priviliges what-so-ever eg, taxi's to take the kids to school or down to the bottle shop to get a fresh goonie. No special lawyers or social security payments, etc. They get treated just like any other person in a western society.

It's the elders in the camps that hold back the young generation.
Away from their elders and they are capable workers.
I witnessed a coory girl being dragged and beaten because she spent doll money on getting a hair colour. It wasn't the colour that upset the parent it was money not being available for liquor. That was in Alice springs in 2008.

All sounds like "downward envy" to me. Of course there are bad Aboriginals, point is, there are bad whites equally.
My own experience suggests that Aboriginals are given concessions for taxis for example, for the cultural reason of attending gatherings such as funerals. They are not more capitalistic than whites. And as I maintain here, alcohol is generally a duel problem to whites equally.

With my many years living closely within Aboriginal communities, I am aware of the problems, and I don’t consider it is all “their fault” for them to reflect racism. Aboriginal children are among some of the most adventurous by nature I know, this trend tends to get them noticed, often for the wrong reasons.

Try wearing racism as directed to Aboriginals and you too would be unhappy with “Red neck” white attitudes and respond appropriately. Aboriginals need “equal” opportunity and, at least, equal treatment; any extra help they get is highly desirable, not undesirable as some suggest here.

Mr Ward's murderers

Have apparently been charged

There may be justice

Thanks Shintaro missed that good news.
From my past work life,that story above, the gentle man having lost his job after 23 years of being hidden up the back of the truck, by his white mates,called them every filthy name racist name in the book.
Told me it was my job, I HAD TO GET HIM RE EMPLOYED BECAUSE HE WAS, HIS WORDS ABO.
want to hear ten other such storys?
On a night time trip to help DOCs I drove from 8 pm till 2 am, had to start work at 5,bringing 4 youths home from a north coast town, they bragged every inch of the way about the busts they had done.
Not all like that but too many are, drop the wet eye stuff give them more than me any fair thing but make very sure we get away from the idea ANY AUSTRALIAN should never work for his /her own benefits.
IF we stop the cringing, if we say enough this MUST CHANGE if we ignore claims to leave them to rot in the out back we can fix this problem.
Any one care to know road instruction training jobs for Aboriginal youth have a failure rate well over 50%
Want to know how much I put in trying to mentor and help?
Keep the PC away they bring nothing but back ward steps.

Belly:

Geeze…Some times I wonder Belly. Its an attitude thing. Don’t be a sucker to them. They all have huge numbers of uncles and aunties to call on in emergencies, brothers, sisters, cousins..on it goes. They are a tribe; people expect to romp into their tribe and tell them how to live. Who’s the fool?

I caught a sixteen year old Aboriginal kid at 5.30Am just a few days ago; red handed trying to knock off my car. What did I do…Nothing! Got my goods back and told him to behave himself. Point is I knew all his family, Uncles, Aunties, Cousins you name it. All of them good people to my mind. Actually served some prison time with a couple of them. It was actually fun being locked up with them; and very handy at times I assure you! Its an attitude thing Belly

Diver Dan we you I all of us are a product of our up bringing our education and our environment.
And, some overlook that,yes at times some first Australians behave in ugly ways.
But I say clearly we can be blamed for much of that.
We have had 200 years to fix much of todays problems.
We let Churches and such, purely stupid PC, get in the way.
IF today work was provided not hand outs, if accountability not cuddling took place.
If youth did not commit crimes because prison is better than home.
If we stopped do gooders doing harm, if children known to be sexually asulted are heard not ignored.
It serves some white mens purpose to not insist on and end to shanty town living.
Some feed like sharks on grog addiction some feed from the Aboriginal industry.
And some on both sides,are purely racist.
We should start again.

We should start again.
Belly,
Ditto !

How much longer can this continue? For quite a while, I should imagine. The problem as I see it is that our Indigenous people are unique among minorities in that they were denied basic civil rights until the 1960s. Moreover, they have traditionally been people who lived in rural areas, beginning to migrate to larger cities only a few generations ago. They have been isolated from the economic mainstream for most of their history. There is relatively little social mobility - they are enmeshed in a tangle of economic, family, and other problems, its members are at a severe, self-perpetuating disadvantage. the current means of tackling this inequality - financial assistance, preferential hiring, and the like - doesn't appear to be working. Increased welfare benefits only help perpetuate illegitimacy and dependency among people who have few employment prospects and little hope that things will improve; preferential employment can help those with the educational credentials necessary for good jobs, but is useless for those without them. A different approach is needed, one that would involve the Indigenous community's taking responsibility to reverse the breakdown of the ghetto family structure and values. Many Indigenous people reject this approach, which they see as an example of "blaming the victim" for faults that originate in the society beyond. They see their underclass as being created and maintained by institutionalized discrimination in the wider society, and aggravated by the government's cuts in social spending. Education and community involvement and taking responsibility - is the key.

This will continue for ever. The indig; that are going to uni and doing ok in society are the prodgeny of the stolen generation. It helped the indig; community to no end.
The indig; that live in the camps have no hope at all. They are battling to send their kids to school two days in a row.
Anyone that says we can do more for the camp people are in fairyland
To my opinion they should be away from towns, and living their traditional life, in areas that are exclusively theirs with out intrusion from white man.

I am aware my storys are the bad ones,but many exist,and are part of the problem.
A special consideration is given in the work place to Aboriginals, not new it was so 40 years ago.
Of late jobs are created just for them, partnerships developed with employers unions workers and trainers, all hoping to make it work.
Most hurting at the failures,PC brings failures, falling back on white mans invasion and 200 years of at least in part failure on BOTH SIDES brings failures.
I hurt at the failures, stood along side a bloke who hid in a pipe under the road asleep!
Got him another chance, he fell asleep in a training room during a safety course,saved him again.
Twice more, then,the most racist out burst you could ask for,because I said these words quote *my Friend every one tried to make this work, except you, please try next time we do not get many second chances in life* end quote.
I have hurt many times at failure, rare indeed that failure is not followed by words as bad as any from a KKK member aimed at his/her white workmates.
We can look for answers in the past blame one side.
But it is time not to end the special ways we help but to introduce accountability to every social security receiver who can work but is not color no boundary.
We must stop living in fear if we take threatened children it will be called stolen generation we must act as if the end justifies our actions and keep bleeding hearts from bring further damage.

a597. To my opinion they should be away from towns, and living their traditional life, in areas that are exclusively theirs with out intrusion from white man.

Thank you. My sentiments exactly. See my previous post.

The first thing that many aboriginals do when a woman gets her beating or a jealous ex partner stabs someone is to ring the Police. Despite being called white trash, spat upon and much worse many of these brave men and woman endure daily the lawlessness instilled into many from a young age. Until the victim mentality is overcome taxpayers will continue to finance police officers at a much higher rate for our first people (if they were first) and the woman and kids will suffer. Imagine the Police were not at the beck and call of these daily violent incidences and you will be left with total lawlessness. Time is generations overdue for aboriginal people to take some responsibility. Many Regional centres need heaps more law enforcement simply because heaps more crime is committed by aboriginals. Majority of Police are heroes not villains.

Runner:

The national culture of drinking is the problem; The police exacerbate social turmoil with “holier than thou pomposity”. Police simply help quell riot. They are generally seen as the front men to the prison system. The “Zap” men. Are invariable recruited from an elite in society with little or no respect or empathy towards Aboriginal culture and less care. They are seen to parade their pomposity and superiority in a ruthless pogrom of arrest with violence. Not arrest of the violent. They are the enemy!

Aboriginals would be much better off, if welfare did not exist.

They are really only behaving as our forebears did, when they could. The fact was that they did not eat, if they did not work, & some earnings was required to buy their grog. Long hours of near slave labour forced them to sober up.

If the people of the 17Th century UK had been given enough money to stay drunk, most of them would have.

It really is not too hard to see the reason for the problem. The only real answer may be much tougher than most Ozzies are prepared to be. I only say may be, as no one knows if it would work, & can not know, until it is tried.

What we do know is that more bleeding heart solutions are never going to work.

Diver Dan: The police exacerbate social turmoil with “holier than thou pomposity”. Are invariable recruited from an elite in society with little or no respect or empathy towards Aboriginal culture and less care. They are seen to parade their pomposity and superiority in a ruthless pogrom of arrest with violence.

That statement is a bloody great load of cods wollop!

How Much Longer can this Continue?
How about letting the indigenous putting their cards on the table & let non-indigenous know where they would like to go from here.
Let's hear of their committment to forge ahead & how they envisage their future in say 10 years from now.
Non-indigenous might be surprised.

The people that run the various Aboriginal organizations don't want their peoples conditions getting better. It would mean that they would be out of a good paying job & they couldn't make their fundings just disappear, as they do.

A few years ago in Townsville there was a problem with an Aboriginal camp in the middle of town. They were camped around a rail bridge. The place, apart from being unsightly, stunk, because they used the creek bank as a toilet. I approached two of the senior Aboriginal Administrators, (I forget the name of it at the time, It changes) & asked if they could supply some portable toilets for them. I was abused for my concern. A few weeks later they were done for making their funding disappear... again.

Jayb,
I know exactly where you're coming from. In the northern Peninsula & the Strait, Labor watched several communities get deeper & deeper into trouble over 25 years. Then, they turned around & introduced amalgamation. Now, why the hell didn't they interfere twenty or fifteen years ago ? Why not ? Because many of the senior bureaucrats weren't due for retirement so, sanctioned by Labor the rorts continued till it was safe to put a pseudo halt to it. Now of course it's perhaps worse with a different lot hanging off the funding teats. The most disgusting side of it in my view is that Labor got in under the promise of stopping the rorting not making it an entire industry.

Hasbeen I agree with every word.
And am deeply concerned,why is it so?
Just look at some posts that one about the police is as described by another,
'STOP! stop the idea the answer is to dump them on a rubbish tip of our making.
Stop blaming them/us, blame both sides but change now.
Not the vegetables of the public service.
Not the bleeding hearts of Christianity or extreme left.
Stop ignoring the truth, lack of education/understanding/accountability sees the filth runner describes every hour of everyday.
What is wrong with paternalism if the end result is a few steps [for all] toward a better life.
Come tell me, would we get away with letting ANY MIGRANT GROUP LIVE LIKE THIS?
A job, a home, a school no sit down dole, nothing for nothing, accountability, child care or no children take them.
Tough love but real love is the answer.

What is wrong with paternalism if the end result is a few steps [for all] toward a better life.
Belly,
25 tears ago in Qld the then Director of DAIA was callously ousted by the then Labor opposition in one of the most vicious campaigns for doing exactly that.
I agree with your post but sadly, most of the left find it easier to be hypocritical.
I was there when no-one in the community walked aimlessly around & when gardens were everywhere. Wayne Goss made sure it didn't stay that way.

Sorry Individual you have shown me not to expect too much of you ,and that is what I get.
This morning I watched a story of an old gentle man,white being bashed by Queensland police.
This thread came to mind, a poster rather proud it seems, told us of being in prison with Aboriginals as fun.
It may have been the same one, not sure, that denigrated ALL police.
I am aware, have seen it,SOME police are thugs, bash many for nothing.
I also am aware of taunting and a sport some, of every race,play,lets up set a cop.
I truly want US ALL to think about this,we brand people like me racist,we do not wish to see the very real ugliness that is ON BOTH sides here.
But as a cop can be trained by the spit running down his face over and again, we MUST confront the racism of these folk,some not all, is based on not understanding not being educated.
Indy in another thread I highlight it was my party too that got rid of laws we once had to stop street drunkenness and bad behavior.
Your constant jibs about the left? seems you find it ok.
Can I then call you what I think you are? no will not bother not worth the effort.
We must improve the life of our first Australians if it means spending more spend it, if it means making real jobs make them,but let us all undertake in the next couple of generations no more to see quality in opportunity and lifestyle education and what ever else is needed comes.

Belly,
Sticking your head in the sand whenever Labor makes a bad move is not very sincere. Your comments about the Police are just as flat-footed. Why, tPolice are no different to Union delegates, you get good & bad. If you're tiring of my constant jibes at the left then all you have to do is to tell the left to stop being an expensive, disruptive nuisance & all will be well. The ball's in your court !
You talk about improving the lives of indigenous. What are you doing about it ? I work in communities for the past 30 years & all I can say that all our efforts to help restore some dignity in communities were & still are constantly ruined by yes, you guessed it, the lefties.
Belly, as long as you find it too difficult to accept the cause of so many problems in our society, you should refrain from commenting as it only makes you a nuisance. I won't call you a hypocrite because being hypocritical is deliberate, I'm prepared to give you the benefit of doubt.

I'll share a personal note, one that is based upon my own observations. Where young Aboriginal Men from communities have been actively recruited to serve in the Armed Forces, they tend to be left alone by Police. They also tend to be able to take care of their communities a lot better than anyone else. The majority of instances where I have seen this in action are based upon people who served during the late 60's, early 70's, when we had a full Brigade (virtually) overseas.

The benefit of the Army is that these individuals had to learn to trust and interact with non-Aboriginal men. They also earned the trust and admiration of the same (young blackfellas make VERY good infantrymen, particularly those from communities who have learned to hunt).

At the current time, with massive numbers of soldiers needed, with declining induction rates, etc. perhaps it might be an idea for the army (especially) to consider actively recruiting from communities. In order to do any good, they'd be forced to work around minor criminal records, as well as providing bridging courses for educational purposes, but if 90% of the men in a community were trained soldiers, including trades, then the problem will change in a very short period. No more would corrupt outsiders get to tell them what was happening, no more would CDEP (or the like) be implemented.

I am proud to know quite a lot of ex-Army Indigenous Australian's, they are stalwart protectors of their communities and a force to be reckoned with by the Authorities.

However, in order to effectively recruit, people who were not just accepted by the Community, but those who are respected by the same, would be needed. That would not be Police/Judiciary, but quite probably ex-Army Relatives, or people who are capable of being regarded as Uncle's. People like Mr Payne VC OAM, Mr Donaldson VC & Mr Roberts-Smith VC MG, as well as other decorated soldiers. The likelihood of getting killed on overseas deployment is frankly lower than that of getting killed on most communities.

What would also be good, is if the Australian Corps of Infantry (RAInf) and the Australian Corps of Engineers (RAEME) could, perhaps as the leadup to deployment to Afghanistan with the purpose of rebuilding communities which have no respect for/knowledge of, the "Rule of Law", which are dysfunctional and have major issues with housing, public amenities, etc. while under fire. Quite simply, if we cannot fix such communities at the end of a long, involved supply chain, here - we've got Buckley's of getting the job done there.

Wherever the Army (RAInf/RAEME) were deployed would be Policed by the AFP for the interim, allowing for a complete change from the current situation. Helping such communities rebuild, training them to be self-sufficient and self-governing, within the framework of law & order imposed by a central government is the mission in Afghanistan. Realistic training with the full range of problems imposed by lack of governance, lack of respect for the law, language problems, etc. is possible within this Country (not something to be proud of, but all the same). Failure to make use of it, even if it involves medium-long term commitment and building materials, training for the Indigenous Inhabitants of the communities, etc. will mean that we are unlikely to succeed in Afghanistan. Any problem in training will be magnified under fire.

Cost-wise? Well as a bonus the Army would be in a perfect position to save money on exercise/training commitments which should be offset against the cost, as well as being able to recruit semi-trained individuals through shortened courses, so the overall cost (offset) would be minimal. Paying people to work should be a good alternative to CDEP. Training them to work, while teaching them the benefits of discipline, consistency and teamwork, with the carrot being the potential to be chosen for recruitment as a soldier. That might just be enough, especially with the use of assets such as our most highly decorated soldiers, as well as ATSI veterans, as role models.

IF it were possible to do so, perhaps under the Aegis of a Registered Charity (Tax Deductible) for the purpose of funding the initial Organisation and sufficient qualified personnel were to step forward (while those who are needed could be contacted and asked to help), there is the possibility that "Manhood" & "Initiation" could be changed from the current "Jailhouse" variety to the "Right to Wear" a Uniform. As such a concept would make it an imperative for Indigenous Youth to measure up (which would take a great deal of Community & Role Model Support), allowing them to wear a Cadet Uniform.

Of necessity, such a course would require minimum standards, of drill, teamwork, fitness, literacy & numeracy, etc. Surely the ADF could be approached to give advanced standing to those who measured up to the "Cadet" standard, which would entitle them access to Kapooka & Singleton, thereby entitling the Graduates of those two esteemed establishments, the "Right to Wear" the uniform of the Royal Australian Army.

It would take quite a lot of organising, but I'm wondering, who has a reasoned suggestion or criticism of the proposed scheme? I certainly don't promise I could make it happen, but I may just know sufficient people who could.

Here's something to think about:

On May 27, it will be 44 years since the historic referendum on counting Aboriginal people in the NATIONAL Census, and passing over responsibility for making laws in respect to Aboriginal people from the STATE governments to the NATIONAL government. As I recall, you had to be twenty one to vote in those days.

So as from May 27 this year, nobody in Australia younger than sixty five participated in that referendum. Anybody who did will be sixty five or older. Or, of course, no longer with us.

In fact, when you think about it, if half of the Indigenous population is under the age of, say, twenty five, then half of the population does not really have any memory of political events of fifteen or more years ago.

Conversely, with very few Indigenous people over the age of sixty, i.e. born in 1950, too young for the Referendum, almost no Indigenous people would have first-hand memories or political understanding of anything much before 1960.

Aaron,

I'm sure that Individual would agree with me that when you have to specify more than one 'IF', your chances of success are indeed approaching Buckley's.

Joe

You can not expect an individual or a group to perform to a standard which is not defined or the goal posts are changed the moment a player gets close.
This is what's happening in Australia now. I see it in the communities when Government raves on about self management or community building yet the moment someone gets up & has a go some regulation prevents them from doing anything. Council amalgamation was supposed to solve all that. The morale in communities has hit rock bottom since amalgamation. It's a failure of biblical proportion yet more & more faked reports get forwarded to the controllers in Brisbane telling the Government everything is honky dory. It is not ! People on communities are now so disillusioned that I can't see any light at the end of the tunnel until we have a change of Government & a change of top bureaucrats at the same time.

I'm with you Aaron 1975. I did 15 years in the Army & any was proud to serve with many Aboriginal soldiers, in fact there are a couple that I look up to, Like Billy Coolaburra, Buddy Lee, etc. There are too many to mention. My CSM at Singleton was Aboriginal. Field promoted to 2nd, Lt in Korea, downgraded (as was the practice) to WO2 after the conflict.
Army service for Aboriginal is a very good idea.

Army service for Aboriginal is a very good idea.
Jayb,
a non-military National Service for everyone would be even better !

Individual,

For everyone, yes: perhaps for the year after they finish secondary school, at no matter what age. It used to be the custom in many countries in Europe (perhaps still is) that they had to do a year (or maybe it was two) working either in a factory or on a farm, or in the armed forces, before they moved on to university or wherever. One could add in current economic and social circumstances, a year or two of full-time community work.

The philosopher Karl Popper did a two-year apprenticeship as a cabinet-maker before he went on to university: he always made his own furniture after that. You hear of other people who worked as a supervised classroom teacher in elementary schools, or joined the navy, or worked in a remote logging camp.

The question is: in Australia, can employment opportunities be developed in rural areas, particularly in the north, for every young person to work for a year or two ? Perhaps in the urban areas too ? The armed forces is one option, but could there be others ? Re-forestation ? Infrastructure ? Developing genuine enterprises ? Community rehabilitation and beautification ? Aged care ?

Vegetable gardens ?

Ideas are so easy, I'll concede that: the problem is how to put them into practice :)

Joe

The "IF's" involved are predicated on removing the "issue/problem" from the "Bureaucrat's" that have led the whole thing from one cluster to the next. There are several high-profile individual's who have no time whatever for the "Bureaucracy" involved, but who would participate/donate toward ANY response that was aimed at actually solving the problem rather than furthering careers/feathering ones own nest.

The problem would be finding the funding, without resources from the Governments involved, to field the initial program, with the aim of introducing a Army Cadet-type program into several communities at once. Given the sheer size of the intended outcome, this would entail providing suitably trained/qualified personnel with the assets needed to perform their job. These people would be paid from such a fund, as would the "Cadets". The individuals involved in raising the profile of the organisation, providing positive role models, etc. would only require payment for their time and for their transport.

Once at-risk-youths on identified communities can be convinced that their "status" within the Communities would be raised by service, then work can begin on fitness, teamwork, discipline, literacy, numeracy, etc. which would (a) provide a workforce within the community (not reliant on Centrelink) and (b) provide a semi-trained source of recruits (capable of meeting the entry/exit requirements from Kapooka/Singleton).

The existence of a semi-trained, literate/numerate, fit, disciplined workforce, would allow for realistic exercises for both RAInf/RAEME prior to overseas deployment. It would also provide valuable recruits to the ADF, whose recruiting requirements are getting more and more problematic, as we increase to 3 Brigades (the same size force as during Vietnam/Malaya). The reduction in Government spending that comes with the existence of skilled Labor on Communities, lower unemployment and reduced incarceration rates, would be of direct benefit to the Government.

Individual I just do not believe you served ANY TIME in Aboriginal community's and do not value your posts, not rude honest, your mind is closed,, self assurance miss placed.
I do however very much know the out comes and history of that referendum.
Not very far from me a township voted strongly against giving rights to our first Australians.
Things are worse now, yes now, than the 1970,s we can not surely think putting a whole nation in the army is the answer.
We are failing,stop doing it!get it right, keep those riding on the Aboriginal industry's back away.
Put the problem in the hands of such as Pearson, give them support cash and targets, put accountability on top, reward those who make it.
But let us no longer lie to our selves stop giving more for failure than success.
Stop hiding sexual assaults on children within even near city community's.
Stop looking the other way to third world conditions BOTH SIDES SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF.

BOTH SIDES SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF.
Belly,
Yes,
I do not advocate military Service. I am all for National Service. Military Service has the added risk that the rebellious will use their military training against society. Teach them responsibility & let them use that against society. Remember, we have enough trouble the way it is, let's not give them the edge to be even more of a problem.
As for employment in the bush ? There would be so much to do out there but sadly, the environmentalists rather let the whole bush get flooded & then burnt down before consenting to let the people who live there take things into their own, much more capable hands.

Lexi:
<they [aboriginals] have traditionally been people who lived in rural areas, beginning to migrate to larger cities only a few generations ago>

Lexi,
"a few generations ago", before the white invasion, they "traditionally" occupied all of Australia and no doubt favoured the prime real estate we've built our cities and agriculture on. The fact that they're "beginning to migrate to larger cities" might be due to them being sick of the desert. Or maybe they're optimistic they won't be hunted for sport these days, or their skins are grown thick enough to stand being reviled by the hard-working whites..

jayb:
<To my opinion they should be away from towns, and living their traditional life, in areas that are exclusively theirs with out intrusion from white man>

Yes, but you're a racist, jayb. It clouds your judgement.
How about if we give them their prime land back and ask them not to intrude in the desert, where we can set-up our own little Mecca..?
I bet we'd never see them again..

Squeers:

Kindly don't patronize me. I'm more than aware of Aboriginal history.
Read my post in its entirety - I was trying to address the topic of this discussion.

Apologies if my quote unjustly represents your post.
But you can hardly argue the aborigines have been living a traditional lifestyle during the last 250 years? And I do wonder what "our" notion of "legitimacy" has to do with anything?
I'm also sceptical that <Education and community involvement and taking responsibility - is the key>
Why is it always about the marginal castes finding their way to fit into our system? Why is our way of life the default moral position, which need never test its legitimacy?

Squeers:

Good questions. And my apologies - I simply don't have the time or the inclination to deal with them at present (personal reasons). I'm going on leave for several weeks. See you when I get back.

Squeers: How about if we give them their prime land back and ask them not to intrude in the desert, where we can set-up our own little Mecca..?

"How about if we give them their prime land back"
I have no problem with that. Mind you they are not aloud to mine, develop or do anything else with it. Those that want to live there would live in their anchient traditional ways not encuumbered with anything brought in by whitie. No religion too. Only their original spirits. Those that lived in the desert can chose to live back their, those that lived on the top end can go there. The do gooders should be kept well away from them. The worst thing that ever happened to Aboriginals was the coming of religion it destroyed there traditional beliefs & way of life.

Mind you if they chose to live in town then they do as all Australians do. Mind you, they, as do some white people need lessons in etiquette, hygiene & social behaviour.

I.m no racist. I have the support of many Aboriginal people.

Lexi,
I hope all's well.
I think I need some tome out too.
Best regards.

Squeers,

"Why is our way of life the default moral position, which need never test its legitimacy?"

Don't get too far up yourself, Squeers. Modernity is not the monopoly of whites. Tertiary education, air-conditioning, comfort, job security, good health, happy childhoods and so on are not your preserve alone. If other people want those things, as much as you do, then that's their prerogative. It is not yours to denigrate those choices.

Joe Lane

Tertiary education, air-conditioning, comfort, job security, good health, happy childhoods and so on are not your preserve alone.
Loudmouth,
Quite so but the working class whitie has to pay for these things with money, sacrificing time for work, paying for medication & child care. That is my only gripes with equality.

Were I given these things I would gladly accept them too. I think the trick is not to give hand-outs. Only reward.

Spot-on, Individual, I fully agree. People, Black and White, earn their tertiary education however, certainly down here in the cities: they put the years of study in like anybody else, but with less certainty that it will pay off.

Aboriginal people down this way don't get any royalties since they rarely have access to their ancestors' lands, but up in the north, so it seems, to him that hath shall it be given: if you have land, you can pimp it and get royalties. No, I also agree with you, that's not equality. In the south, an Aboriginal person on his or her onw land can't just demand that the government to build him/her a house on it. That's not equality either.

Frankly, I'm not all that interested in the remote communities: they have got themselves, in collusion with organisations and bureaucracies, into their mess, they can get themselves out of it. In the south in the cities, people have had to battle, to get into the cities in the first place, then to get jobs, then to get their kids a decent education, and to find some level of security by struggling to buy their own homes.

Like white people, you may say, yes, but with the added burden of a racist history on their shoulders.

And with more than twenty six thousand university graduates, and an unknown number of trades graduates, they are doing it, more or less on their own, against the determined opposition these days particularly of the left, of which I still count myself one, as I always will. It's a complicated world, Individual :)

Cheers,

Joe

Lexi hope you are ok mate all the very best.
I am with loudmouth here very much so.
Can any one think leaving things as they are is an answer.
And MATE! Individual! gee are you now saying if we NO! sorry just can not go there,this country has had service men in two world wars and every other minor one.
They did not come back as terrorist, gee offensive stuff.
I could be Aboriginal, yes the act says if I am excepted into the community I am one, I know whites who took that offer.
I will never support the idea we should leave them to live half our life time in the bush.
I will never except the idea that they understand without education and such just how they can live better lives
Yes I know, I understand, my thoughts are not shared, understand some see me as racist.
But it takes much more than love , blindness , care, it takes more than concern it takes action.
We highlight in every thread our distrust in public servants,yet we ignore it is them we put in charge of keeping the status quo not fixing Aboriginal problems.
If we give a thought, look past the bad things,understand they are a product of BOTH SIDES FAILURES, we can fix this two generations and we have educated leaders children family's.
We can do it if we lock the PC out of this dreadful state of affairs.

Belly,
I'm just asking one simple favour of you. If you haven't got a straight forward answer then please don't say anything. I can't make sense of those ramblings. You are either deliberately twisting my statements or more than likely you haven't a clue as to what I am saying.
If you are unable or unwilling to comprehend that some of us have genuine concerns & want to better things then you should go to your local Pub & listen to the races.

Only one story maybe not Representative, but happening every day.
Out side a court in Perth young man asulted by two men and a woman.
That happens too.
But during the assault these very common words got screamed at him, YOU WHITE DOG!

These two brilliant articles should provide serious starting points for encouraging genuine self-determination and responsibility, at both community and individual levels.

The first is by Nicolas Rothwell, a very perceptive, compassionate and sincere young observer:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/destroyed-in-alice/story-fn59niix-1226008040782

The second is by Dr Ernest Hunter, a long-time worker in mental health in Indigenous communities in the North:

"Make criticism a power source for change" The Australian, 19 February 2011.

Highly recommended !

Joe