<"Although this should not be over-emphasized, an understated, but pervasive, anti-Catholic and anti-Christian feeling sometimes bubbles to the surface in Australia. We see anti-Catholicism in the comments made about Catholics that you would never hear made about other religions which reminds us that aggressive secularism is alive and well>

Lexi,
thanks for providing an instance of Collins's rhetoric that bears me out.
It is the height of dishonesty for him to ascribe anti-Catholicism to "secularism". You only have to read Dickens to know that the cry of "no Popery" is a hackneyed literary trope (nearly as old as anti-semitism) and a frenzied social chant. Anti-Catholicism stems from the Reformation (and from Catholic corruption theretofore), and in the Anglophone world from Establishment. Why then, one wonders, is Collins putting it at the door of "aggressive secularism"?
Actually, I partly agree with his anti-secular prejudice, at least apropos those who worship at the shrine of empiricism and positivism. But they are not anti-Catholic, they're anti-religion, indeed anti anything that doesn't come under the heading "rational". But I suspect these are also in the tiny minority. Most secularists I know are humble folk who have no truck with absolutes, secular or otherwise, and are not "aggressive", except in disclosing obvious fraud (not so obvious to the dupes). What the religions purvey today is largely fraud; however ardent the "instrument," he/she is part of the corporation.
But individual transcendence also risks delusion. Indeed "Transcendence" in general, but especially as diversion, is tantamount to neglect of duty as well as self-deception.
But Lexi, I think we mostly agree:
we <don't need a religious authority to tell [us] what to do and [we] are especially suspicious of institutions "with all the answers">
Agreed! So let's send their purple robes (Shiraz stains) to the op shop.
"Genuine" institutions are (or would be) the social glue of inclusive democracies born of an ever-renegotiated social contract based on ethical fulfilment.
Individualism is a selfish and delusionary doctrine and no substitute for the mass-deception foisted by institutionalised religion.

Squeers:

I also think that we "mostly do agree," Dr Paul Collins differs a bit.
He says that: "Catholicism has remarkable staying power, an ability to survive unmatched by any contemporary institution. If you've been around for just on 2000 years you will have learned a thing or two ... This doesn't mean that the church will be perfect or that parts of it won't wither and die, or that it won't make mistakes... Catholicism has survived precisely because ultimately it is adaptable and able to change. Often this energy for change comes late in the piece when everything seems to be in dire straits and it may well emerge from the most unexpected source." Collins says, "The thing is that the Australian church is just the right size. Not too small so that it destroys itself in in-fighting, not too large so that it becomes impossible to change." He feels that Catholicism in Australia will survive, certainly with lesser numbers, but with more commitment and ministerial energy. Collins sums up by saying that to achieve that, "Catholics will require genuine local leadership and a willingness to confront both the difficulties and opportunities that the church faces." My feeling is that under Pell's leadership the
church will not be able to do precisely that. But, then I'm not the
religious specialist that Dr Collins is. I cringe every time Pell opens his mouth in public. Anyway, for me this discussion has now run its course. I'll see you on another thread.

Oh Geez LOL..

As I have stated previously on your Catholicism threads TBC; most Catholics abandoned Church pews well over 20 years ago - my generation and today's generation with the exception of kids attending private schools, in which there are the odd masses conducted through school time for special occasions.

Have you ever attended a Mass or Church service at a Catholic Church lasting 45 minutes, to assist your cause, in addressing the wrongs conducted by the Pope, Cardinals, Priests and Clerical Staff within the Catholic Church? A few prayers, a couple of readings from the Bible, Hymns sung, Go in Love and Peace, and that's it, similar to the Anglican Church's gatherings.

Most people do not attend Mass each week for a start, are hypocrites and sinners, as are all individuals, and most people attending Mass/Church on Sundays during their lifetimes are well aware of these facts about themselves and others.

In relation to Cardinal Pell's speeches, only he is able to respond and justify his comments, as they are ultimately, Cardinal Pell's responsibility.

Why not Challenge Cardinal Pell regarding all of his wrong opinions and wrongdoings committed within the Catholic Church, you are fervently attempting to address, as you may well make a difference regarding the outstanding issues and crimes committed by the Catholic Hierarchy.

As for politics, politicians, religion and past events - irreversible damage commmitted for far too many years over 40 years.

Hence my cynical LOL.

Q: A similar situation to when a parent loses a child through rape and murder. Parents and family lobby the Courts, Government, request assistance from Australian groups for years and years. The public do nothing! nothing! to assist the family before or after the court hearings or to assist in changing or amending legislation for other young murdered innocent Australian victims.

Been there done that - politicians, the law society, media and other groups all set up to cover one another.

Do you think Australians will ever bother sacrificing their time to fight for the justice of those innocent children [now adults] who were assaulted by Priests and Brothers, when Australians in every state never bothered banding together to ensure that legislation was changed to charge and gaol [with adequate sentences] the murderers of Janine Balding and the girls from Tathra? [I lost a work girlfriend 25 years ago from murder and the guy never charged] despite pressure placed on government bodies for many years.

By the way, Politicians are responsible for the lenient sentences whereby many of these criminals have been let off scott free mixing in our society.

Park the responsibility of non-addressed crimes firmly and squarely where they belong TBC - within the legal [government] and political arenas.

Its of no use blaming one Cardinal Pell as an accessory or cause of crimes committed by some of the catholic priests and brothers over the years. The man obviously never knew how widespread the criminal activity was for many years.

Nor is it correct to blame regular or irregular church goers listening to a Mass for .45minutes out of their week.

we are unique.

Good to hear that absolutely no one is ever responsible for anything.

I'll recall your sage advice for 'next time'.