I came across this blog from an ex pat South African dated 2007.:

[quote]5 biggest problems Australia faces
1. China. I am surprised to see how big the influence is of China here in Australia. I have spoken to many ppl in business and many have told me how importing from China has changed business, cut jobs and closed down businesses. I am not sure what the government has in place to protect local businesses.

2. Water. After all the rain we have had in the passed two weeks, I was stunned to hear on the news last night that 80 % of NSW is still experiencing severe drought.

3. Australian Youth and too little accountability. I for one am not particularly impressed by the youth of Australia. I have seen a number of stories in the press since arriving, where young ppl have committed serious crimes – but instead of society being outraged at their actions, loads of excuses are thought up for their actions. I have not seen a particularly overwhelming zeal when it comes to academic excellence or gaining the best education available. I am also concerned for the Australian economy in the long run.

4. Medical care. I for one am not blown away by the standard of medical care in general. There are often long waiting lists for procedures, even for older ppl who may need to have these procedures done urgently.

5. Over-organized, over-structured red-tape jungle. Anything innovative, new or entrepreneurial is choked to death by all of the permits/licenses and red-tape to get it off the ground. In the end it is often easier just to work for a large corporation rather than starting your own enterprise.[/quote]

This person has has been around and we do not impress, take away the sun the beaches and we aint got much to crow about. I have not heard the term "lucky country" much in the past 20 years but I grew up with it ringing in my ears, because it was true and we knew it.

http://austrangelia.blogspot.com/2007/06/australias-biggest-problems.html

The only way I see Australia surviving....is to sell-out to the nearest super-power. It would be nice to be independent... but the greedy just wont have it. China! Your new rulers. Supply and demand.....

"This person has has been around and we do not impress, take away the sun the beaches and we aint got much to crow about. I have not heard the term "lucky country" much in the past 20 years but I grew up with it ringing in my ears, because it was true and we knew it.

Maybe we should all take Asian language courses?

BLUE

I came across the following website which may be of interest to some:

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/new-gossip-chat/65223-best-worst-living-australia.html

The only way I see Australia surviving..
Deep Blue,
I can't say it often enough but for Australia to forge ahead (not Gillards moving forward) it needs National Service foremost followed by some sort of teacher education so that they can help make our kids smarter instead of the present dumbing down system. Then & only then can Australia recover.

individual, here is a "half" story for you. Compared to 40 years ago our population has grown by half and the number of students taking on subjects that require "higher mathematics" at uni compared to 40 years ago has halved. That is scary.

*I have spoken to many ppl in business and many have told me how importing from China has changed business, cut jobs and closed down businesses.*

Perhaps the South African fellow is not aware of all the businesses
growing and hiring, due to demand from China. Perhaps the South
African, has never done a calculation as to how much better off
Australian consumers are, via the benefit of cheaper consumer
goods. We could of course bring back tariffs tomorrow. We could
force our women to go back to the sewing machines, to sew
Australian clothes for instance, a return of the sweat shops.
How would the poor be able to afford them?

compared to 40 years ago has halved,
SoG,
Isn't it rather alarming from our perspective how both intellect & pragmatism are diminishing in our society. Countries previously labelled third world are experiencing the opposite, they're getting more & more education & manufacturing is at an all-time high. Why ? Because our lot is now too stupid & incompetent to keep up what we started hence so much of our industry has moved offshore. Some CEO's are in fact so mindless that they entrust our communication & banking details to offshore outfits whose loyalty will very soon be seen not to be in our best interest.

"Because our lot is now too stupid & incompetent to keep up"

Indy...you know just too well what the problems are, and you are dead on correct with imbalances. While the white kids grow fat and stupid, the 2 and 3,s are putting and winning.....which the government knows just tooo well.

The winds of change are a foot.

BLUE

Yabby:>> We could of course bring back tariffs tomorrow. We could
force our women to go back to the sewing machines, to sew
Australian clothes for instance, a return of the sweat shops.<<

I can see it now, mobs of bedraggled Aussie women working till all hours to fill their quota of Chesty Bonds athletics.

Why we do not manufacture in the first world has its base in the global union disruptions that started in the mid sixties and carried on till the mid seventies at which point the money started moving manufacturing to cheaper climes where they had free rein to do as they wished at sweat shop prices, but only after the UN Development Organization had our traitorous pollies sign away our tariff protection rights. They can take us to World Court if we don’t let them bombard us with any junk they produce. Why do you think we are getting apples from infested China, it’s disgusting.

>> How would the poor be able to afford them?<<

No Yabby your line is "let them eat cake"...lol

Individual, the dumbing down, the loss of manufacturing, the stripping of sovereignty over our trade options did not just evolve it is a plan to switch the social and economic polarity of the world. The former rich nations will be the indebted and the former poor are to prosper. Until prosperity raises fixed costs and once again they come back to the now indebted us, and like a dirt farmer dangles a carrot in front of the donkey they give us a lifeline if we would do as they say , and for as little as they could possibly pay us. They want us technologically void, defenseless, with no more education than is required to operate a cash till and card skimmer.

I would like to offer some help and advice to the South African gentle man who wrote that.
I have [for free] the plans for a barbed wire boat, he is welcome to them.
His brief [hopefully] stay here told him little.
China imports too.
We very much ride on its back.
This is called world trade,tell me, do, are we to reintroduce tariffs to protect us from cheap imports but hope our exports are not subject to the same blind stupidity?
A total lack of understanding of a subject is no reason to plow in with observations that look what they are, idiotic.
I ask this question.
What country would you rather live in than this one?
And remember as a free gift you too can get those plans for free, use rusty barbed it works best.

What country would you rather live in than this one?
Belly,
You're right. That's why those who care are speaking up. In my book I'd say we're already far too dependent on offshore money & supplies. We have a defence force which requires offshore equipment to maintain its efficiency. Do you think anyone will invade Australia. No-one is that silly as to get an army moving when all you have to do is stop sending supplies. Just imagine if Toyota & Dunlop stop supplies. Bang ! The Army is at standstill. Stop delivery of Marine engines & the Navy's going nowhere. What I'm saying is that we've got no plan B for when this global thingomajig goes hemispheric.

Belly,
Are you not being a bit sensitive to some outside observations?

I question the accuracy of the mans point 2, but that aside, his obsevations mirror that of many citizens here. Maybe we should look at his observations and not attack the carrier.

Posters seem to have focased on his point 1, in relation to the demise of our own industry. I tend to agree with individual to some extent on this and his assertion of the need for a plan B. There are many things that could affect our imports/exports and thus our economy. Not only direct conflict or trade sanctions. A regional conflict, in say Korea or China/Tiawan, would affect shipping both ways.

So is there a need for a plan B and does our Government have such or simply kept its existance quiet? Who amongst us has the confidence that it has been considered or, given recent debarcles, thinks the government is capable of implementing this if the need arose?

Sonofglion, belly and Yabby, I particularly would like to read your thoughts on this.

Banjo, the very nature of ever more complex manufacture means the
days of making eveything are long gone.

I would be amazed if the military does not have warehouses where
they carry significant spares for their equipment. If they don't
well that is all that is required. The rest of plan b is provided
by the global market itself. Toyota is long past being just
made in Japan, the same with Dunlop. They source parts from around
the globe, assemble around the globe, including in the US.

Today most 4wds are not even made in Japan, but in Thailand, or
now Brazil. So it would be very few parts or machines that cannot
be sourced from somewhere.

Countries are also more dependant on each other. If Japan decided
to switch off our Toyota parts, we could switch off their coal,
iron ore and gas. The lights would soon start going out in some
Japanese cities.

Belly:>> This is called world trade,tell me, do, are we to reintroduce tariffs to protect us from cheap imports but hope our exports are not subject to the same blind stupidity<<

Belly the free market ethos of stripping away protectionism to promote competition and deliver cheap goods is a crock for Australia. We have traditionally exported what we can grow or dig up, manufactured products have never been a major export component, we produced for the internal economy, and we were self sufficient. Now we are not and have 30% youth unemployment.

We were not under any threat of losing the grow and dig export component, not because we are the only game in town but primarily because doing ongoing business in the first world is a load more secure than dealing with our main competition in the third world where you can lose your investment with a change of government.

If we forget about labour intensive industries such as the garment industry most brand name manufactured goods come from modern manufacturing plants in second and third world nations, hardly sweat shops but very fixed cost effective. They have enough profit to ship it around the world and still make great margins. It is not true that we cannot compete in modern manufacturing given that labor costs are year by year a decreasing portion of the fixed costs of that business, a fraction when amortized over the volume technology now spits out.

We have been conned about not being able to compete, and the dumbing down of our kids will mean we are doomed to serfdom.

* we produced for the internal economy, and we were self sufficient. Now we are not and have 30% youth unemployment.*

We were never self sufficient Sonofgloin and we never can be,
especially with increased manufacturing specialisation. There
are jobs for all of our youth, if they bother to train for the
skills required. The very reason we keep bringing in trained
migrants, is that our own lack training and education.

But you can't force kids to learn and gain skills, if they have
it so good, that they think they don't need to be trained.
Note who is training all those engineers etc. Its the Chinese,
Japanese, Koreans, Indians.

Note countries like Germany, Switzerland etc. Still large exporters
with large manufactuing facilities. Why are they doing so much better
then Greece, Spain, Portugal etc? They focus on training their
youth, if not to university, in one trade or another. Virtually
nobody just leaves school, planning to flip burgers for a living.

For instance, walk into any major hotel around the world, the
managers are commonly Swiss. Why? In Lausanne they have one of
the top hotel management training schools in the world. Nestle,
Roche, Schindler, and a host of other today global companies, who
grew because of the quality of their employees. Its the same with
German companies.

Introduce tariffs and all you are doing is dropping the standard of
living of all consumers who pay more, plus increasing costs of
efficient exporters, to make them less competitive globally. So
you've really just shot yourself in the foot, then wonder why it
hurts.

Banjo about plan B, we don't have a plan A. Plan A is in place and running but our government has nothing to do with it, we are a leaf in the stream, and the money in league with the UN control the water flow.

My uncle was a career soldier and in the years before they retired him he was in charge of visiting private manufacturing companies inspecting the machinery and its capability to be put towards war production should it become necessary (a job he also did for a while in the 60's), he retired in 1980 and said we have no way of producing anything of substance to save ourselves, we were more independent twenty years prior.

Neither party has a long term strategy or vision, they live for today and that is a concern. Do they know something we do not, do they govern for today because they know we do not control our nations destiny, sure looks like it.

Banjo regarding your question on could this current lot implement a plan B if they had one, you have got to be joking, this lot are uni educated Fabian lawyers well out of their depth, bereft of reality and coated in ideology.

*he retired in 1980 and said we have no way of producing anything of substance to save ourselves *

Sonofgloin, you continue to live in dreamland. The world has
changed, deal with it.

Australia is a huge country, it would be extremely difficult for
any invader. The heat and flies in the desert would defeat nearly
all of them. A war in Australia would not be about a few tanks
on the ground. Look at modern warfare in Iraq or Afghanistan,
they were all about air power and technology. They are also about
the local population.

America bombed the hell out of both places, but could do little good
in either place, until they had the population onside. Even in
Afghanistan, they are realising that unless they have the local
population onside, America cannot win.

America is doing the most good, with a few remote controlled
drones, technology that never even existed some years ago.

So your notion that we need to be able to manufacture tanks
and similar, to win a war in Australia, is a flawed one and
one that would be doomed to failure, despite the massive expense.

to manufacture tanks
and similar, to win a war in Australia, is a flawed one...
Yabby,
yes tanks etc are just about past their use by date. If we were to need tanks in Australia then it would be too late anyway to oppose any invader. I was thinking of daily supply of goods & back-up if any such crisis should manifest itself. The trick is to avoid invasion in the first place. How ? Put up hurdles to stem the invasion of stupidity via pop/fashion culture & drugs & gradually, sense would be restored
So-called no-need-for-you-to-know diplomatic activities by incompetent career bureaucrats are probably even more of a threat to Australia remaining a great place to live.

Sonofgloin,
We do have a plan A, it was, and is, the deliberate demise of our manufacturing industries and the making of us reliant almost entirely on the import of manufactured goods. Your, ex army, uncle was right in what he said about the capabilities of our industry and still is so today. But it is not just about any war effort, disruptions to imported goods would have dire consequences for much of the population, whatever the cause.

The implementation of plan A, beginning about the 1970s and endorsed by both major parties, caused massive unemployment for many as industries shut or moved overseas. I would like to see Belly's opinion about that.

Yabby does not think we need a plan B because he maintains we simply purchasse from other sourses. To a limited degree he may be right, it seems to me it would be wise to have key elements of manufacture up our sleeve so we could easily build on that when needed.

Have yet to see any indication of this.

Yabby also says that some other countries are smart in training their own skilled workers, so where is the critisism of our governments and industry for neglecting this. Instead we poach essential workers from countries that likely need them more than us.

When things go pear shaped others will look after their own first and so must we.

Yabby it amazes me that you and Belly sit on ideological opposites and you both believe there is no way back, but neither of you see that the right government and a national will can see us right up there with the likes of Singapore.

You two remember Singapore that little island famous for the gin slings at Raffles. Forty years ago under the Colombo plan they dreamed of coming to Australia but they don't dream of that anymore, now we have Afghanis and Tamils, they can't get into Singapore you see.

Yabby:>> We were never self sufficient Sonofgloin and we never can be,
especially with increased manufacturing specialisation.<<

That’s right, we can’t be trained but the third world dirt farmer could. Can I remind you of what hopeless little Australia has produced?
Lord Howard Florey: Medical researcher
Sir Frank Macfarlane Burnet: immunology and virology
Professor Dorothy Hill: geology and palaeontology
Professor Robert Street: development and properties of magnetic materials
Professor David Craig: Theoretical chemistry
Professor Brian Anderson: control systems; signal processing; telecommunications
Professor Richard Stanton: metallic ore deposits; volcanic and metamorphic geochemistry
Dr Patricia Woolley: Zoology

and some inventions:
The Combine Harvester, Permaculture, orbital combustion engine,
Variable Ratio Rack & Pinion Steering, Hills Hoist, the Electric Drill,
differential gears for cars, Black Box Flight Recorder, Inflatable Aircraft Escape Slide,
The Two Stroke Lawn Mower, Latex Gloves, Shepherd's Castors, garage roller door,
salt water chlorination, Xerox Photocopying, Refrigeration, Wine Cask,
Electronic Heart Pacemaker, The Bionic Ear, Aspro,The Humidicrib,
Spray-on-skin, Thrust Bearing, Samba software,Uniloc Software Protection,
Internet WiFi or Wireless,Google Maps.

Not bad for starters, I could have gone on and on.


Yabby:>> Note countries like Germany, Switzerland etc. Still large exporters with large manufactuing facilities. They focus on training their youth, if not to university, in one trade or another. Virtually
nobody just leaves school, planning to flip burgers for a living.<<

"The unemployment rate for those under the age of 25 in the European Union reached 21.4 percent in December, according to statistics released by Eurostat, the EU's statistics office."...from Duetche Welle today http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/01,,5194867,00.html

Germany has a youth unemployment rate of 20% that they are admitting to, I would add another 10% in real terms and Spain are admitting to 42% so the sky is the limit in real terms, perhaps none of their kids work. Yabby there is no positive story for the previous first world; we are all going down at the same rate that the East is raising, spectacularly.

Banjo:>> Yabby does not think we need a plan B because he maintains we simply purchasse from other sourses. To a limited degree he may be right,<<

Banjo a quick pole:
Is Yabby smart; yes
Is Yabby right to a limited degree; no
Is Banjo closer to reality than Yabby; yes

POLE CLOSED

Yabby not trying to look like a wise man from the east, in fact that saying comes from dumb men of the west.
But time and again we agree, in this thread you look brilliant/outstanding in relation to some.
Australian education is not ill,we produce,and have for 3 decades, fodder for hight tec industry's all over the world, our graduates.
Who says we are standing still?
Manufacturing , ok we are seeing job loss, it hurts us all, this trade unionist never likes that.

But without WORLD TRADE, this country starves be certain of that.
We gain more than the losses in WT.
Be fair dinkum, come with me to the big tin shed,see the empty corner shops hardware that served us well.
But do not lie would you buy at the tin shed or pay three times the price from a corner shop.
World trade is not interested in paying more to buy our made goods Australia is not either.
In my state government departments import Chinese rain wear rather than buying Australian.
Show me one developed country any one, that has not got the same concerns thrown around here AMERICANS FOR A START
Then show me a country you would rather live than here.
I am sickened by the outbreak of rubbish about this country, no country suits me more and its called AUSTRALIA not PARADISE.

*Germany has a youth unemployment rate of 20% that they are admitting to*

Err so what? Youth arn't much good in most jobs, until you bother
to train them. Youth might also have to learn that there won't
always be a job next door, move to where the work is.

Yes, Australia has produced some bright people and inventions.
It will continue to do that. Just last week Austal, an Australian
company, won a major tender to build US warships. They are busy
sending off another 100 million $ ferry to Scandinavia, built
right here in Fremantle. But a great deal of their workers are
457 workers, Aussies don't want the jobs.

To some degree Australia suffers from Saudi disease. Saudis own
the oil, but most of their skilled jobs or crappy jobs are done
by foreigners. Saudis get it too easy from the Saudi Govt, so
some of them think they don't need to do real work and make a living.

Some of our kids have been given everything and have grown up in
the lucky country. They can go surfing, do whatever, they are looked
after. They think that life owes them a living, not the other way
around. They don't want the welding jobs, or the meatworks jobs.
They want to be the managing director! Just like Saudis.

Singapore kids are taught quite different values and their island
thrives in a world of free trade.

Australia could have been a great place to live. Can it still be? I'm not sure we can go back.
It's an absolute must that we at least take stock of our current directions.

Firstly we have to stop comparing our situation to european states or third world countries
as we live in a low population island the size of a continent, in splendid isolation.

That alone is enough to be to be taking more radical viewpoints than just considering International Corporations as necessary for employment or responsible for living standards.

And as for the deserts being our defence strategy, perhaps we should think about our own defence capability more seriously and independently, more in line with our needs.

Progressively the underlying problem is that the man on the street has become more and more disempowered by the whole mess of international involvement in our decision making in our countries domestic/financial/environmental and so on, relations and affairs.

All you would have to do is go back to the Dismissal in 1975 to remember when it was,
that the last Australian Govt had the gall to act independently and was spanked accordingly
(sic) for doing so.

Or even wild idea's like the Multi Function Polis, perhaps could have been just the place to house all the smart people that are drained from our gene pool by seeking more progressive places than Australia to live and develop.

The NBN?, let's see if we can kill that and ensure that international corporations control the flow of information in our country and control the cost to the the consumer for evermore.
Wouldn't that be beneficial? not.

I think it is time to demand more from our Government's, particularly and beginning with defence. Stop attending and sending troops (for no apparent reason) to international conflicts. Stop sacrificing Australian young folk at the alter of international pressure without a defence cause. No defence of Australia is happening when our troops and resources are half way across the world.

We may still be able to pontificate in this country (who knows whose watching), but everything else is out of our control and falling.

Is Australia a good place to live?, that's a comparative question. Compared to what?.
What it is, or what it could have been.

Sonofgloin... "I have not heard the term "lucky country" much in the past 20 years but I grew up with it ringing in my ears, because it was true and we knew it".

I suggest you read the book Horne wrote to understand the phrase 'the lucky country'.

Your commentator has seen what Horne saw all those years ago.

An indolent nation, sitting on its backside while relying on the sheep and quarry to carry it forward, with no need for intellect to be sharpened.

The phrase was ironic, describing a nation of lazy bastards who barely had any need to work or innovate.

Welcome to the lucky country of 2011, the same as Horne's of 1964:

http://www.cultureandrecreation.gov.au/articles/luckycountry/

See below from the web page....

The Lucky Country

For many Australians the phrase 'the lucky country' has a particular resonance. Donald Horne's famous words have been used in numerous ways to describe everything that is great about our nation.
Portrait of Donald Horne

The phrase has been used to describe our weather, our lifestyle and our history. It is often invoked to describe the nation's good fortune, from gold booms to economic booms. Recently, our geographic isolation from the world's trouble spots has again seen us labelled the lucky country. It has been paraphrased by politicians - 'the clever country' - and when Kylie Minogue sings we're 'lucky, lucky, lucky', we all know what she means.

How ironic then that Horne's irony was totally overlooked!
The great irony

Donald Horne remembers the night he penned those words. Within a few weeks the phrase had become the title of the book.

In a hot summer's night in December 1964 I was about to write the last chapter of a book on Australia. The opening sentence of this last chapter was: 'Australia is a lucky country, run by second-rate people who share its luck.'

That sentence was a rather brutal indictment of his country at the time. It is a direct, uncompromising and seemingly unambiguous commentary on Australia in the 1960s.

An Australian Journalist and social writer [enough said]who delighted in denigrating his fellow man, undoubtedly, as a result from carrying an enormous chip on his shoulder!

In short, one Australian's social opinion based upon his own personal journey and battles throughout life.

My impression, based on rellies and family friends, is that many South Africans genuinely believe they live in a first-world country and are seldom impressed with any other.

As for medical care, the real issue is that we share our medical resources across our whole population (admittedly with a considerable gap between rural and metropolitan resources). If our South African friend had to queue up with ALL the unwell in his own country, rather than the privileged few, he would no doubt be wishing for the Australian health system.