Fester, I'm not sure I understand what you are getting at. Could you please clarify. Thanks.

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Forrest, Australia HAS all the exports it needs to get its essential infrastructure and services up to scratch and then progressively improve them.

The thing that is holding us back is the constantly and rapidly increasing pressure on our infrastructure and the enormous demand for ever-more of it.

This factor is surely much more significant than fluctuations in prices as the dollar changes in value against foreign currencies or as the price of our major exports varies.

I'm with you all the way regarding liquid fuel security, in the face of peak oil, as we have discussed at some length on this forum. But I'm not sure that exporting liquid fuels is the answer to our financial security or ability to recover the lost value of our infrastructure and service sectors.

Could you elaborate on what you envisage. Thanks.

ludwig/quote..<<..The government-being-in-bed-with-big-business problem exists at all levels,..and this is indeed the overriding problem,..isn't it?>..you nailed it in one

but we need to wake-up...govt...so one complete level;dying...could affect a change...a change the so called charter of honesty...and policing...media exposure..et-al...has..*not corrected

<<We just don't have..independent unbiased government.>.thats the trouble...its only too biasede..to serving business as usual..serving the same old elites...not the cash-cow...ie not the people...<Not by a bloody long way.>>

<<the state government layer,..I can't see that eliminating it would in..itself help us move..towards a sustainable future.>>if its not fixing..things..its not working...[we need councils..for local SERVICE..we need federal..for international..affairs]..

state is there purely serving its..statists agenda..for the clive palmers..of this world....state govt..*could EASILLY do..what palmer...does*...all his type does..is join the dots...and take the cream...giving minimul..to anyone else..[except pennies to HIS party]

if<<all government funding comes from neutral sources>>

there is no such beast...funds come from people paying their bills..[with those GETTING more...PAYING more..by giving a fair share..BACK to the people]

and there is a huge..pressure...$*$*$*power/$..power'$..on politician's...to do favours*..for their funders..

who shall allways*be..those making the big buck$*$..
be it free land...free resource...free labour...
or just a nice free*lunch..[or power]

hang em all
know god is watching

To all you hundreds of thousands of readers out there who are critically concerned about the issue of infrastructure not keeping up with population growth… within a political paradigm in which we are constantly told that this sort of growth is good for us and will improve our lives …check out the address by Peter Taylor, Chief Executive of Engineers Australia, at the National Press Club this Wednesady 24th November:

http://www.npc.org.au/upcomingspeakers.html

<< know god is watching >>

OUG, I often feel that if god is out there, he's watching very closely, with great glee, at what man is doing.

I get the impression that he likes change, dynamism, the corruption of stable ecosystems, peak and crash events and the like, and is very much on the side of the big, aggressive and greedy businessman and the very biased what's-in-it-for-me politician.

I don't think he's at all worried about us destroying our future when we could very easily be putting ourselves onto a sustainable footing with the maintenance of a high quality of life.

I think he'd be looking at the Earth in the bigger picture and be seeing humanity's population explosion and release of fossil carbon as the dawn of a fantastic new era: the Anthropocene, where after the Homo sapiens crashes into oblivion, evolution will surge forward and take life on Earth and intelligence to a whole new level.... in a few million years time.

So maybe we should just stop trying to fight it and accept the inevitability of it all, and just enjoy the ride while we can.

hi ludwig...the expression..{'know god is watching'}
..should be prefaced..[post-dated...]
sorry cant find the right word

followed by*...[...*from within..*each of us]

[that we do to the least..
we do*..TO*..him]

im sorry i didnt ex-plain..it better

he hasnt got glea...nor sorrow...
*except that he shares with EACH of us...

[it is enough that..*he sustains..US/..*all...our living]
indeed all living...

via the..'natual'..process..
as he does FOR*..all living..
all logic..all law..all life..

its my fault..i wasnt as clear..as i..intended to be

once we know these truths..its hard to judge others
and easier to see-k..the good..[god..in everyone]

god has no concern...about this material realm
he knows we are all...ET-ernal spirits..with eternity before us

[this reality is much like a sand-box]..were we can play...but not really hurt anything...learn to love..learn to appriciate..EVERYTHING

l-earn..our place...learning to put everything...in its place

so i agree/..lets enjoy the ride...but at least respect..EVERYTHING...here now...lest we entertain-t angels unaware

we learn..to care here
earning our next..{tomorrows}..reality..

purely..off..of..todays* efforts..
in time..we all..*learn to care

This thread has been really disappointing.

The failure for basic infrastructure to keep up with continuous population growth or to be maintained for the existing population and not fall into decline, let alone be steadily improved as we have been told would be the case over the years due to the (touted but false) economic benefits of continuous population growth, amounts to an extremely important subject.

Population and growth issues have received a pretty good response on OLO, with many articles and general threads addressing it. But this time it flunked.

Not sure why, but I am very tempted to think that it was because the question I posed is just too hard to address. To reiterate:

< The INTENT OF THIS GENERAL THREAD is to discuss how, in the face of a very strong rapid-continuous-expansionist business and economic sector, we get our state and federal governments to slow it right down to a stable level. It simply HAS to happen. So how do we make it so? >

I can’t answer this. I think that the forces of continuous growth and antisustainability have got it totally sewn up and that it will take a massive upheaval to our society for us to break out of it.

But I’m not going to leave it at that. I’ll keep pluggin. Stay tuned for more general threads on this vitally important issue!