Pied Piper:>>Is English hard to learn?<<

It is about rote, and continuous interaction brings rote, segregation brings a form of pigeon English, no continuity, short interaction times with English speakers.

Pied Piper:>>I know water comes up in these threads but how that could be managed better.<<

By Paul Lockyer: Updated Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:27am AEST
"Seldom do flooding rains reach Lake Eyre in the arid heart of the continent, but it has now happened two years in a row."

PP we have had enough rain over this continent this calendar year to sustain China for 100 years, that is a fact. Have we saved enough to sustain us for 10, no. There are no votes in water until we are thirsty. Does the government have the foresight to spend $42 billion on water management for our future, no.

Pied Piper:>> So this thread is more about managing people<<

It is only because we cannot give most arrivals a job when they land that there is a management issue, the management of an imported underclass in a nation that is busily building an underclass of it's own cannot have a positive social outcome.

Pied Piper:>> Don’t people create employment as they consume, build, travel, and become educated?<<

The strength of a nations manufacturing segment dictates domestic prosperity and the cost of domestic goods. Here in Australia the Tourist Segment returned more than manufacturing. We are importers who have a tourist/ resource based economy just like a third world nation.
Re the Education, Australia last year recorded the lowest number of kids going to uni to do subjects that require higher math’s. More kids did the subjects that mater in 1966 than last year.

Pied Piper:>> Are the resources all here just not good plans in place? Or do you think it just is not and will not be workable?<<

We have no control the politicians are guided by the UN and the threat from the "money" to turn their economies to dust if they do not comply to leaving their constituents’ naked and defenseless against the corporations.

Pericles:>> What exactly are you scared of?<<

P, I have no phobias or biases pertaining to people, any people, migrants included. My considered opinion is that if we bring in migrants the economy must support them; the migrants view is that the economy should support them. Our domestic economy has been fashioned over the past 40 years to support the corporations and financiers. They have as few of us involved in process of making money as technology and legislation will allow.

I take your point, sonofgloin, however you raised the notion that one in four Australians come from a linguistic background as part of your argument. As it was an incorrect part of your argument, it demanded refutation. I also acknowledge your evidence from an earlier census that indicated one in four Australians did not speak English as a first language. That does indicate that they are linguistically and culturally differentiated from the rest of society, though when we factor in the information I shared from the ABS, some of them - many of them, in fact, must have been born and raised here. I have known Italian and Chinese kids who can slip into their parents' language at home and seamlessly back into English outside the home. Perhaps they are bicultural as well as bilingual, as they did not behave in any 'abnormal' ways when around their fellow Australians.

Hasbeen, I also understand your point, however I think you have given two fairly extreme examples. Neither Parramatta nor Fairfield, based on your experiences, is really a microcosm of greater Australia. The reality is that the majority of us DO speak English and the majority of us DO share many common cultural characteristics. If I head up the road to Ingham, I will see something of an Italian enclave. I would not use that as evidence that Australia is not an English-speaking country.

As for 'what many of these people speak as English', are you really telling me that New Zealand English, South African English or English English are so markedly different from Australian English that you cannot understand them? They were the three countries I pointed to and, admittedly with the benefit of my own cultural background, I have never had trouble understanding any of them. I had thought that was because they spoke largely the same language (admittedly with some bizarre quirks). Maybe it is because of my upbringing?

I'm not being sarcastic there - I really am interested to know.

"We’re on the road to nowhere"

- Indeed, the source of all our problems are the immigrants and the bicycle riders!

...

...

...

The bicycle riders? But what have they done?

...

- And the immigrants? What have THEY done?!

---

The whole world is on the road to nowhere, ever since the big-bang. If you are sad about it and need to blame someone - blame God, He will not take offence; or blame Nature, it will keep smiling; or blame Time, it will keep ticking just the same. All castles are built on sand - therefore be happy, Carpe Diem!

That's a rather one-eyed view, sonofgloin.

>> My considered opinion is that if we bring in migrants the economy must support them; the migrants view is that the economy should support them.<<

This pre-supposes that migrants do not bring anything to the economy. Which leads me to believe that you see "the economy" as some finite lump, divvied out among the population.

It doesn't work that way. If it did, the colony would never have made it to first base, 200+ years ago, would it?

You also makes the somewhat glib assertion that migrants consider that "the economy should support them". Presumably, you mean that they are a drain on public funds.

What, all of them?

What about the ones that work? Or do you see them as "taking bread from the mouths of the Aussie battlers?"

Are you sure about this:

>>I have no phobias or biases pertaining to people, any people, migrants included<<

The evidence so far suggests otherwise.

Otokonoko and Yuyutsu you both miss the point. The issue is not one of blaming the migrants for anything. The point to mentioning the place of birth and the first language is to demonstrate the "rate" of intake and the affect of the social engineering aspect of the migration strategy on our society.

Second wave migrants were not brought here to fill vacant laboring and factory fodder positions as were the post war migrants. My reasoning on migration is the expectation that migrants have a better than 50/50 chance of finding employment that will sustain them and their families after they arrive.

Some have argued that whatever life style these people attain, even if on welfare benefit it is better than what they had, intimating we have an obligation to support them. I believe that migrants (not refugees who are a separate channel) should only be allowed entry if there is a job for them.

The youth unemployment figure is the tragic marker to where we are and where we are going as a nation. If we are not skilling the young they will further vanish into enclaves of ethnic minorities and poor white Aussie trash struggling to get by as best they can when adults.

Yuyutsu, life is a veil of tears for most, because “that’s life”, but I smile frequently, I want better for “us” especially our young. I grew up in an Australia where you could leave a job today and work tomorrow if you wanted. From perhaps the age of six to my late twenties almost all the factories that backed onto the suburban rail system had permanent signs posted: machinist wanted, welder wanted, fitter wanted, laborer wanted. We worked together and we and the migrants integrated, if we don’t have work we are building enclaves.