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The Forum > General Discussion > The Way It Will Always Be!

The Way It Will Always Be!

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I have read many articles across the full media spectrum, both paper and electronic, dealing with people`s questioning and obvious frustration at the daily grind of all consumer price increases.

It can give one a warm glow to see all the well-meaning suggestions offering advice on subjects such as saving money whilst grocery shopping, avoiding wasteage of foodstuffs in the home, saving on electricity costs, reducing increasing phone bills and the like.

This all falls under the heading of survival in a world gone mad with consumerism!

We all individually are to blame because we are NOT prepared to voluntarily "cut our cloth according to the measure". We continue buying this weeks groceries on next weeks paypacket. We continue to butter the pockets of the banks and the money-lending institions by using Credit Cards, invariably attracting obscene interest rates, instead of using a Debit Card thus preventing overspending (if you haven`t got the money in your account, you cannot get credit). We continue to fall for the old "buy today, with no interest for 18 months" ploy, and continue "keeping up with the Jones`s" who themselves are no doubt up to their necks in mortgage repayments on their "first home" mansion that itself would be more befitting a member of Arabic royalty.

Things are not going to change if we are not prepared to change our long instilled habit of buying on Credit. All business will continue to welcome artificial affluence, but the Bailiff will be the only one who will dispense the penalty for overspending!
Posted by Crackcup, Sunday, 31 October 2010 10:51:52 AM
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Yep, totally agree. But there inlies the question. how do we achieve change in the way we approach consumerism. I have gone on and on myself about these issues, but i do see the problem. We live in a free country with a free market economy, people are free to do and want what they wish, and isn't it great. Greed as disgusting as it is, is a very powerful driving force that has much to do with the success of the markets.

The only way change will come is through a shift in social attitude. You can not force change as people will reject it. Even a recession won't stop them, they simply tighten their belt for a bit then go back to business as usual. So my questions are;

1. How do we achieve social change toward standard of living and quality of life?

2. What regulatory changes would be possible to encourage a change without them upsetting the population and causing upheaval in the markets?
Posted by nairbe, Sunday, 31 October 2010 1:32:44 PM
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Credit is and always has been the life blood of capitalism.
Without it every thing from home ownership to employment is not possible.
We are however living above our means in the western, maybe whole world.
One day this may come crashing down, but remember even crashes give investors opportunity's.
So the thread is well named.
However the truly unaware, or silly who get into trouble too become investment opportunity's for the wise.
I think at My age the system works, pay cash always, save go without then buy without on going debt.
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 31 October 2010 1:54:02 PM
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your missing the WAY..the system now works
EASY credit...[then poor people defaulting]
allows..others..{money elites}..to pay the intrest[usury]..on loans

see EVERY penny..in egsistance..
was borrowed..INTO EGSISTANCE

but the INTREST..put upon it
can ONLY COME..VIA..LESSER BEINGS DEFAULTING..their debt

govt has to lend..EVEN its own money
see the bond-rate..ie usa..lends..at 2 percent[from the bankers]
only to give intrest*free..bailouts..to the banks..!

WHY CANT PEOPLE REALISE..THIS
where did the INTREST..come from
sure govt taxes..its people..

BUT MONEY..CAN ONLY COME from
SOMEONE..borrowing it into egsistance

boss-man borrows..the wage check from the bank
workers get credit[debt]..then go bust

the product..is sold...its rubbish
its time we stopped the poor wage slaves..
from having to ever build more consumer-product..on credit..

the sooner they all default

the sooner the insanity of govt...
LENDING..its own money..from bankers

[to bail out bankers]

..ends
Posted by one under god, Sunday, 31 October 2010 1:56:25 PM
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Crackup...you sure crack me up :)

You said:

"We continue buying this weeks groceries on next weeks paypacket."

Actually... there is more to that than meets the eye and it fits very well in many other scenarios.

(Caution..."headings" coming up)

COMMITTING TO PENSIONS WE CANNOT AFFORD for PUBLIC SERVICE UNIONS.
The American people are kind of just a little bit waking up to this scam perpetrated by Socialist power hungry Unions (like SEIU)and their 'NutzenFuhrer' Andy Stern. "If they don't accept the power of persuasion, we will use the persuastion of power"

WE ARE THE PROBLEM. Yep.. exactly, well..not 'me' (smile) because I'm not in a union and I only buy what I can afford.

But essentially, it's not the system which is the problem it's the system inhabitants. Change us..and the problem will be solved.

"Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 14Leave them; they are blind guides. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit." Mat 15:13
Posted by ALGOREisRICH, Sunday, 31 October 2010 3:01:26 PM
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Does anyone have any figures as to how much someone would have to put away to live on in retirement for 30 plus years ? On say $640F/N over 30 years that's ½ million bucks just for a meager pension. That's an awful lot to put away for an average worker. Public servants don't have to cough up much at all to get very nice superannuation. All a bit lopsided to my eyes. I support the idea of everyone getting the same pension. Super should be an affordable optional . It's simply insane how much our higher ranking public servants are paid in retirement at the expense of workers. Unions, unions where art thou ?
Posted by individual, Sunday, 31 October 2010 4:54:37 PM
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The higher levels of personal debt suggest that what you say is all too true Crackcup.

We need a people power movement driven by an voluntary anti-consumerism agenda. Don't use credit unless for emergencies, don't by what you don't need, save for those luxruies/treats instead of using money you don't yet have etc. Greed will not feed your soul (in a non-religious sense :)).

Discussions like this and a return to down to earth thinking suggest that this is already happening. History tends to go in cycles and eventually the excesses or extremes of social norms and the negative repercussions generally lead to a return to the opposite and hence the pendulum swings back and forth.
Posted by pelican, Sunday, 31 October 2010 6:20:34 PM
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I am horrified at the amount of money 2 of my kids owe. Then, when I think about it, it is only about 5 times their annual earnings, not much more than I borrowed to buy my second home.

When I walk around their homes, it’s so obvious that they make mine look quite rundown, & shabby. Then again, it didn’t look too bad 20 years ago, while it was full of kids.

The main problem our kids have is partly the number of public servants, & academics they have to keep, but it is also the number of bludgers they support.

There are so many “underprivileged” today, all of whom requiring a standard of living, payed for by the tax payer, which often exceeds the standard the taxpayer attains, with what he has left.

I get along quite well on about age pension income, but probably only do so because I don’t smoke, & drink rarely. Without those costs I can save a little on a little less than $300 a week. Of course I owe nothing, & never borrow.

I was surprised to find that my 99 year old mother had saved regularly with the age pension her only income. It can be done.

Individual, it’s not just the high ranking PS, its most of them. A mate of mine received so many promotions in his last 3 years in the PS, as those above him retired, that when he retired from his now quite senior position, his pension was more than his full time pay had been 3 years before.

This is the rip-off that costs us so much
Posted by Hasbeen, Sunday, 31 October 2010 8:53:14 PM
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HasBeen:

You appear to be one of my mob. I married at the ripe old age of 18.
I was then getting paid 7 Pounds a week ( equiv to $14 ) a week, but worth many times more. I paid 3 Pounds rent each week for a very austere flat. Out of the remaining 4 Pounds, I had to buy food, clothing, pay for electricity and feed a Gas Meter. I did not have a vehicle ( couldn`t afford one) and paid to car pool to work with a fellow workmate ( who was lucky enough to have won a brand new Holden in a Lottery!)

In those days Hire Purchase was virtually unheard of, and my parents taught me that if you need something badly enough, then you have to save up and buy it...."if you cannot save for it, then you don`t need it!"

Strangely enough my wife and I managed to live reasonably well, but during that first year we relied upon friends with a motor car to take us on outings occasionally on the week-ends, eg: swimming, picnics etc.

I purchased my first motor car which was a 1938 Ford Anglia for the princely sum of 30 Pounds twelve months after we got married, as we had our first child in a stroller and lived just too far away from the shops,...also I figured that it wasn`t going to cost me much more for fuel than what I was paying to get a ride to work, fuel being then equiv to 30c per GALLON for Standard fuel.

My wife and I reared 4 children and bought nothing on the "slow drip" except our first home. We have now been married for 53 years and live comfortably on a 300 acre property which we own.

I believe that my parents teaching equipped me to traverse life exercising financial responsibilty throughout and I am thankful for that valuable experience which has stuck to me like glue!
Posted by Crackcup, Monday, 1 November 2010 10:56:21 AM
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."if you cannot save for it, then you don`t need it!"
Crackcup,
Now that would be the greatest blow to the Jerry Harveys of this world eh ? I think it's not that far off now that the number of homeless will become a major problem. What with all these forfeitures due to owing too much we'd need a third world debt kind of bailout. Just look at discrepancy in the pensions between workers & public servants. Look at the discrepancy of the Tax system between employers & employees & public servants. We don't really have an economic problem as such but we have a severe attitude problem. There is sufficient in the coffers for everyone, it's just the distribution that needs a shake-up.
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 2 November 2010 7:16:46 AM
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It's interesting that "shelter" in the form of a house - and the need to pay so much for it (especially with the added burden of "interest" - is the device that is used to enslave people for their "working life". (Of course, we have the added lure these days of most people in a country like Australia desiring a McMansion)
Posted by Poirot, Tuesday, 2 November 2010 9:00:56 AM
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kids..only want mansions..because thats
what the media..has put into their minds

media needs to create consumers..for its multinational advertisers[to sell their product...to

advertising..is a gross..bu-sin-ness..making people depressed..who cant get credit...and setting up for bankruptcy..those who can

we must recall...the poor vilagers..in the poverty counties
largly..dont pay rent..thus can live on less than one dollar a day

i too recall..earning 35 dollars a week
and paying 18..to rent a one room hovel...

my longe was t-chests..with a bit of..rubber on it
i too recall the costs..of elect-trick..consumables

[bying..an 8 mil...film pro-jector..costing three weeks wages]
only to have it go obsolete..by vidio...[and yes i bought beta]

then i bought a vhs...then i bought one of them..new fangled computa...[those ones you program..onto a cassette]

anyhow..consumer-ism...soon made me get rid of this
to buy..that...i went from reel-to reel...to 8 track,,,to cassete tape
and now diget-al..formats..[so many of them..too]

went from 78..to 45..rpm..to 33 lp..then digetal..in that too
but differnt formating]...went blue ray..and the others..as they went obsolete

con-sunmerism...is a huge con..thats just the way it is...for now

when the kids go broke..thats it
[you wouldnt believe..how many phone[y]...
phone contracters they have..gone through

or maybe you can

[i swore i would stop bying petrol..when it..shot over 30 cents]
but of course couldnt....then

now i dont need transport.

and dont pay rent
live on less than 5 dollars a day
[and i smoke]..[but mercyfully..dont drink]..[nor gamble]

gave up consuming..elect-trick...items
long ago...since the lap-top...died
im back to..my windows..from way/back in 2000
that died..in 2002...but miraculously..has revived..now the bugs...have expirede..that was programed..into it..to make my buy the next-one

ps the 8 mil..projector..still works
so does.my radio-gram

im sure..if i fired up..my old/valve..black and white[tv]
it would still run

wonder why*we love excuses..to upgrade..?
when the new fangled..con*sumable..stops working

and costs more..to repair...than replace
Posted by one under god, Tuesday, 2 November 2010 9:54:17 AM
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Hi all,

Did a quick read through the topic discusses and decided to express my 2 cents worth.

I don't think you can change this present world we live in. How do you propose to do such a thing? If you stop shopping at the supermarket and grow your own: let's see.. first you need to have land, then time, then effort, and more time before you yield any results. Not considering all the pest here and disease, for all you know your hard work might not even pay out.

I don't agree that it will always be this way. There are many people who are changing slowly.. Almost everyone here is this forum wants a change(from the little time i've spent here, only the ones with mental illnesses don't because the can't tell the difference :p), now how long do you think the government and its structure will remain in control? I don't think that we are just going to sit back, and watch our lives, or our future generations lives, get wasted due to fear of laws.

I believe that as an individual, we are entitled, to choose how we want to live our lives. Whether right or wrong, it is a personal choice. Sad to say, we can't really do that anymore now can we?

continued...(before i exceed- good exampled of not being able to do what we want to do? :P)
Posted by jinny, Tuesday, 2 November 2010 11:43:28 AM
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Since birth, we have not been allowed to think and decide for ourselves. First our parents... they tell us what is right or wrong, we watch them growing up, and get influence in how we behave later on in life. Then come the media(which is everywhere here), friends, school, everything. Everyone has an opinion. Everyone thinks their opinion is the right one. And, at the end of the day, who's opinion IS right? The government? You parents? The rest? Or Yours?

I have to say, it isn't exactly dandy adapting to reality. Problems occur everyday, problems at work, family, money, everything. To every problem, there is always a solution. So we should work to solve whatever it is our problem is, at that point of time. Prioritize which matters the most, then come up with a solution. If is still doesn't fix it, try something else. If you had enough of trying to fix it and not getting it fix, then change it.

We are actually very compassionate and passionate people, we just sometimes forget we are. I don't see the point of looking back at the past and comparing how good it was then. It doesn't change anything, it only frustrates us more. What's the good in that? We are living now. This is our reality. This is how life works... for now. :)
Posted by jinny, Tuesday, 2 November 2010 11:52:11 AM
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If you want change, be prepared to do something about it.
Judging by the posts, we have identified the problem and in most part have provided the outcome, so that leaves us with the how, so lets think about where we will start and I say we, as we are all in this together, right?
Now, first of all we need to change policy so it represents what the people(we)actually want.
This will take huge amounts of resources, but let's not get carried away. First we have to do our housework and elect party leaders, but I see a problem, EGO,mmm, then cash. Who's gunna cough up without wanting something in return. Sounding familiar, anyway lets move on.
Assuming we have a leader and for the first time in Australian politics, persons with actual experience in the field that they will represent on behalf of their constituents and not be looking for degrees in lying, cheating and how to fill the pockets of friends. Whoops, sorry, for a minute there I couldn't get Neville Wran out of my head. Where were we? right, the plan.
So we have formed a party, now it's time to take on the media. No speedhumps here, just a roadblock the size of Qld.
Initially they will be very interested in our policies as it makes good news, but once our policies become water cooler conversation, they will try and suppress us all directed from the 2 majors.
Anyway are you still with me, all two of you, good.
Right, some of us will get up at the first outing and during our first term, we will learn the ropes and put some runs on the board, but at the next elections,our policies will be matched by stooges from within the 2 majors,to water down our policies and disintegrate our party.
If we survive, it will take at least 2 terms to gain power and in the meantime, who's gunna pay the bills?
Right, lesson 1 complete, now who's up for lesson 2? I am!
Posted by Gasman, Wednesday, 3 November 2010 7:36:12 AM
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I would like to draw people`s attention to a website
that may possibly hold the key to actually changing
things globally for the better, ( it may be the ONLY
real solution!) rather than endlessly postulating about
issues that will never change, because we ourselves
are too greedy, too selfish or simply too ignorant!

The website link is: http://www.vhemt.org

Accordingly I would like to acknowledge and thank
BAYGON for his disclosure of this information on his
Forum thread entitled: "Population Growth"
Posted by Crackcup, Wednesday, 3 November 2010 9:36:10 AM
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OUG,

I believe it is far cheaper to repair than replace.

Till well into my forties, I repaired any and all devices in my house. Usually a robust repair doubled the life of the device, be it furniture or electronic or dwelling.

The ball-and-chain does similar for our softgoods, and now assists surgery with similar skill and care.

The investment in learning was minutes, thirty years ago.

Cancer research gives similar returns, a natural progression to my mind.

Rusty
Posted by Rusty Catheter, Wednesday, 3 November 2010 9:11:11 PM
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The first part of your user name... i wonder why you chose that. Extinction of human race? Brilliant Idea Mate! Yeah, let's wipe out the most intelligent species on out planet. Umm.. suicide or insanity.. I can't decide which one it falls on.

Haven't you realized that there are actually many people all over the world actually working to make a difference. They have, they have come up with advanced medical knowledge, technology, therapy, human rights protection org, animal protection.. and all these in the last how many years?

So you are suggesting by making the humans extinct, it will solve our world problems...
Posted by jinny, Wednesday, 3 November 2010 9:27:53 PM
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