I am both unhappy and pleased with that nice American lady driving the good ship Titanic [NSW Government]
NSW has by far the best OHXS system.
The federal governments one country one set of rules policy is understandable, but why not the best not the worst system?
Gillard may say as she wishes but a worker hurt badly at work, unable to ever work again, is now forced to live on social welfare by these rules.
However fear, threats, stand over tactics and blindness are weapons this same government has armed its public servants with.
Against its own workforce, now pre election with no shame, they seemingly think saving the pain, hurting till the last minute then promising the world,, is not under estimating even taking those workers for granted.
Labor can do better must do better promising a reprieve if they win an election they lost long ago is not going to do it.

*NSW has by far the best OHXS system*

The way I understand it Belly, the NSW system differs in that
unions can prosecute employers, for breach of safety laws.

The employer is them deemed guilty, until they can prove their
innocense. The union gets to keep half of any profits.

Do you really call that fair? Would you bother to employ
people, with those kinds of laws over your head?

"The federal governments one country one set of rules policy is understandable, but why not the best not the worst system?"

Apart from the issues of OHS Belly, this is one of the main reasons why it's beneficial to have the states. There is nothing about the existence of a centralised unitary government that wuold require it to choose the best rather than the worst options available any given case. States provide room for experimentation so that the best practice may eventually become generally recognised and adopted overall. It also gives some escape from bad government as in a worst case scenario, people can move to another state.

Come on yabby, lets have a bit of bi partisanship.
You find a fault ,others exist, but are you aware the last conservative leader of this state gave workers a far better deal?
One group of unions would sell their mums for cash, and do miss use the system.
But it is a flea on a dogs back compared to injured workers lost rights.
In this matter Julia Gillard is beneath contempt.
Look at her past, then at her present, she betrays her past here.
A worker injured so he/she can never earn an income again should not live in poverty.
For those so biased they see only faults in workers/unions let me say this.
fraud inflated legal costs planned injury's, it happens, are a problem.
Can we focus on dead workers who died after bad bosses failed to obey laws?
Young men on roofs without fall protection, a migrant worker smashed in the face with a hammer by his boss.
Or one wearing boots that fell apart and made him fall ten meters.
NSW system protected workers rights better than other states.
One nation one set of IR laws ok but
continued

If IR reform is about cutting costs and conditions it is wrong.
Let us understand this Labor leader does, a worker crippled at work wants no cash, just to be as they had been an hour before their future was destroyed would do.
A great number of Australian workers gave up part of a wages rise or won as an extra payment 24/7 insurance.
A reforming ALP could have considered a cost saving for every one, and better payments for injured workers.
Workers comp, think about a new system.
Let employees and bosses fund it.
Tell me how unfair it would be, but then tell me as a victim of work ending injury.
If the boss and workers contributed to issuance, maybe funds for best practice competition.
If after prof work life was ended we could continue to pay wages , let the damages be worked out by others.
But fair go at work is in every ones interest.
The saddest, most dreadful, part of this debate it is the fraudsters and thieves who make people like Gillard inflict this rubbish on workers.

*One group of unions would sell their mums for cash, and do miss use the system.*

Well that is my point Belly. That is all I am focussing on. That
part is clearly wrong and needs changing in NSW.

As a matter of principle, we are innocent until proven guilty in
Australia. That is the basis of the legal system.

No law should let some unions rort the system to fill their
own coffers.

The local worksafe bloke once told me of an example in NSW.
This bloke owned a station and a couple of the guys went off to
count the cattle in the 4wd. They tipped it over and one of them
was killed.

The owner was hauled before the courts, found guilty and fined
hundreds of thousands. His employees had not been wearing their
seatbelts and had not been sent to do an accredited 4wd course
it seems.

Belly, farm workers do all sorts of things, something different
every day. If they had to be sent to do accredited courses each
time they did a new job, they would spend their lives going to
courses and get nothing done.

A little bit of common sense in all this, would be welcome.

yabby, mate.
I think of you as a rather prickly at times mate.
Some times I see from your eyes.
Some times from mine.
I am no longer a union official.
Tuesday before last I stood up to a bad boss.
And for my mates.
My members never ever had been my comrades, but mates yes.
I left with pride they did not want me too, happy I had taken on a man who needed the world to find the guts to say to his face what they did behind his back, for the fourth and final time.
Yabby I despise some unions, some officials.
But not my lifetime one.
It was in my childhood great, to see the battered old holden pull up on the job.
Happy old official come towards you? a feeling some one cared.
We hit a hole about 5 years before an amalgamation, took time to meld.
For a long time I thought it would fail, two great men, men of our future melded it in to the union it once was.
There yabby is a difference.
You highlight a problem, but mate you over look courts rule on crimes.
A boss found guilty of OHXS crime is guilty,his fine being shared,may be wrong not his conviction.

*I think of you as a rather prickly at times mate.*

Fair enough Belly, see whatever you want to see. I think
of you as a very nice fellow, we would probably get on great
over a beer and have much in common, about many things,
agree on many, agree to disagree on others.

But all this has nothing to do with the two points I am
raising and focussing on.

Nobody, but nobody under our laws, should be assumed guilty,
by mere accusation. They should be assumed innocent, until
proven guilty. That is the very basis of our legal system.

The NSW occupational health and safety laws are the exception.
I gather that this was tested in the high court and found to
be unconstitutional.

Secondly, if some unions can benefit financially from bringing
cases to court, it becomes their interest to raise frivolous
cases, as they might make a quid. I just think that is wrong
and needs changing too.

All the rest, you can argue until the cows come home, I don't
really care. These two points however, were rationally discussed
and debated by the business community and shown to be what they
are. The arguments made too much sense to ignore. So I am
simply stating my opinion and certainly don't think that Gillard
should adopt such flawed laws nationally.

All they do is give employers another reason to say stuff Australia,
we'll go offshore.

I have always known we would yabby.
Believe me you have it wrong.
If a union acts against a boss in this area it MUST be proved in court that the boss had done some thing wrong.
That boss is not judged by a union but the court.
I have put other ways of sharing the costs without dropping the economic benefits in print here.
Lets look, just at my recent problems with OHXS in NSW.
PPE personal protective equipment MUST BE warn on all construction sites.
That little blue and white sign on every entrance warns, you can not enter the site unless you have it.
Legislation had to be drawn up, workers wanted to wear shorts, or short sleeved shirts, high vis clothing that burst in to flames ext.
The law clearly, not a union law, says the boss must supply it Free.
It is law policed by work cover, a state body that keeps every cent a boss's fined.
In fact the fine for not wearing hi vis jacket is about $240.
Now I often found, too often, a boss had taken money to pay for clothing the law said he must provide.
Last time it happened the country town based firm refused to repay, said they did not have to, my boss of that time, did not understand a great deal, code for had hidden any talent he ever had well, agreed with them.
Work cover, from that same town disobeyed its own law.
All said I got it wrong, ideal could have won much cash in court, never in my life would I
But that home of heedless government fine makers and takers known now they got it wrong.

I would have sent companies broke had I become either a Worksafety Inspector or Union Rep Belly! When driving I notice many machinery and truck operators risking their lives and employees lives on a weekly basis. Thongs and other inappropriate footwear worn on the job moving cranes on to the back of trucks, loads of material/debris uncovered, flying off the back of trucks hitting vehicles, hard hats not worn on many occasions at various work sites I visit, drums, rubbish, bins, cords and other electrical gear left in traffic areas for people to trip over.

Government would climb over themselves for you to do consultancy work part time or full time as a Workplace Inspector.

It is probably 'your' time to leave the Unions [one of your areas of expertise] in which you have given over many years, reduce your hours, yet not your wages, by working as an Inspector for government.

You would get the best of both worlds working on either contracts, part-time or casually Belly.

Belly, it seems to me that you are seeing this all from your
own personal perspective, which is a common human foible.
But you have to look at the ramifications nationwide. That
is why Gottliebson and others of the business community
raised the issue.

A magistrate cannot do as they please. They can only
interpret the law, which they are given. When it comes to
points of law, lawyers will persue them mercilessly, to
achieve their objective.

Now Belly the amiable unionst, is not the problem. But
if we were dealing with a Reynolds or a Donaldson, backed
by appropriate lawyers, they could screw the system to
their hearts content. That is why the NSW law is not acceptable.

Worksafe have a real attitude problem. When they clamped down
on farmers, after reading their emails, I rang them up. These
guys knew nothing about farming or farm machinery, but were ready
to read farmers the riot act. I suggested that their big stick
was not going to work, a carrot might be more appropriate.

In the end I told the guy that I had intentions of selling my
business and in future would employ as few people as possible.
They could all work for worksafe and all police each other.

When Govt officials try those kinds of standover tactics, they
are bound to fail. Don't be amazed if its another reason, why
some entrepreneurs simply say stuff Australia, we'll just do
it all offshore.

Next people like Unique will be crying that they want more
jobs locally.

Liked both those posts.
let me clear the air, I was always from the union most of you know had a great culture and plan.
It has returned to its roots after a storm.
But yes that mob is the thugs and mugs.
storming even now on to sites with false claims about safety.
But yabby real concerns are not hard to find, in fact while rather not support the idiots, solidarity is a much missed lie, if a boss gets it wrong?
He/she should be fined, it is not a one sided view.
Yes we are unique I have been working full time from age 13 till not much less than two weeks ago,now 65 and a little.
Only about the fifth insulting confrontation with a man who has no Friends stopped me.
I am well, but while settling down to a less
stressful life remain interested.
I tried in my last post to highlight intervention in health and safety must take place.
Those charged with it are in retirement mode.
How many know work cover will not investigate a road transport smash that leads to death?
do the crime do the time,any offender should be fined.
of special interest,some officers who should be getting a safe workplace are ex officials of the thugs and mugs, who now rest in office chairs taking no action.

Next people like Unique will be crying that they want more
jobs locally

I have no idea where you are coming from with the above comment Yabby, although feel free to continue with your own interpretations of peoples suggestions and comments. I have a farming background similar to your own [experience] along with two other businesses, faced 25 years of obstacles and roller coaster rides with those businesses along with the work for both private enterprise and government, therefore a little ill founded ignorant dig regarding a positive suggestion I made to Belly does not really faze me Yabby.

WAU yabby lets not scuffle over this.
Every day my phone rings, from a union member or official often from a boss more.
My intention was not to sink IR reform I promote it.
While in my 65th year I feel 30, am ready to continue defending Australias greatest union and build a new life.
Here and now let me talk of my fears.
Those pulling the strings,even the ALP ones seek the imposible.
To make more riches for employers more jobs.
To by stelth bring down living standard in the name of? the economy.
We could, if the will existed, rebuild workers comp and not by introducing the worst system.
Give workers a chance to contribute but not be left on the pension after an event at work.
One nation wide plan,remember the pirates contract.
Yes even a pirate hundreds of years ago knew what a lost body part was worth.
Answers exist,the easy answer is take workers rights away, instead of insurance firms paying,we do!
Never be afraid of new ideas new answers.
PS find Paul Howe's words on this subject in the national web page of the AWU.
You will leave with an understanding of this matter.
However if, Sorry brothers, the NSW ALP gave us the winner of the Melbourne cup and a house it is dead.
For the sake of my party it must die, Nation wide its coming death will be the first step in its return to its proud past, and victory in 4 years.

Hi Belly, be extremely proud of all the differences you have made towards Australian workers'rights and improvements to the workplaces throughout your career. A book would not go astray either Belly when you retire. I believe that your work, experiences and suggestions for further improvements would assist the government side.

Kindest wishes.

Thanks WAU the book is in my head and will be written.
I want to remind people of the great days of the AWU.
Both its past and thanks to brilliant leadership its future.
I want to tell of a few Kevin Rudd's within the movement, only because the power generated by unionists should be owned by them.
You at least understand not all workers are bad people.
I have broken down a few times after a single mother working hard was sacked for complaining her wages did not go in the bank till a week after.
If I could find the words to explain why the national health and safety plan sells workers out, and that Gillard values power more than workers I would be happy.
Hidden in the toll of injured workers are some of the very best,some who lost family's on the day they lost their legs some who lost every thing but live on pensions, even in old peoples homes forever 20 or 65 its no reward for a tragic needless injury.
Bill Shorten, read the great mans speech's on the disabled then you will understand why I want to live long enough to see him be what Rudd promised us he would be.