Pelican:"someone whose house is robbed because they left a window ajar is not to blame."

Actually, in the law, they are, not to mention their chance of making an insurance claim just went through the floor. It's called "contributory negligence", which is what I was held to account for in the example I mentioned above. The crime of "break and enter" is more serious than the crime of "theft", hence the shoplifter rarely sees jail but the burglar frequently does. It is also an offence to leave your car unlocked on the street. Think of your robbed homeowner offering to give the goods to someone and then claiming they were stolen after reconsidering.

In the case of common assault, the assaulted party can be held to be partially culpable if he/she has acted in such a way as to inflame the situation, such as making threats or acting belligerently before the assault.

IOW, the law recognises that one bears responsibility for taking due care - except in the case of an alleged sexual assault, apparently, when it may be that the contributory factors are the most significant.Care to have a go at why that may be the case?

R0bert:"what we do need is honest enough discussion "

In all sorts of areas related to gender that is very true. Sadly, the people with a veted interest in pretending women are always helpless, hapless victims are well-funded to be vocal, so it's unlikely to happen any time soon.

Just how many of these "rapes" occurred many hours after the fact, is perhaps the main part of the controversy.

My youngest, although a teetotaler attends these venues with her mates. She tells me that there is quite a number of young women who are "up for anything", & having great fun, while they are drunk.

It's only as the hangover cuts in, & they realise what they look like to everyone, that the fun turns to rape.

I'm from the day, when it was a special licence, rarely granted that allowed grog after 10.00 PM. How we got to the point that the kids only go out after 10.00 PM, often all ready well gone on cheaper alcohol, drunk at home before going, I really don't know.

Licences should not be granted for hours when there is no transport available to get drunks home in some kind of safety

pelican wrote: "If we go around thinking all footballers are rapists they would never get to socialise. Do we keep footballers separate from women at all times just in case? That would obviously be silly."

Dear pelican,

I say we keep footballers separate from women at all times.

I agree with Cornflower. First one, don't know if there's others.

No one wants to be attacked, but there's ways to minimise exposure to the risk. Women should be able to wear what they want, when they want, and where they want is SO detrimental to their safety there needs to be an active program in schools - or something, really it's just basic safety and should be as common knowledge as not going into the bush without some preparation and education ... anyhoo - where many people - not just women - don't seem to grasp the basics of personal safety. You wouldn't go selling bibles door to door in Ramallah.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. It still seems that men see the problem of males raping drunk, partying females differently to women.

Of course, the law says that rape is a crime under ANY circumstances, if the victim says 'no' and the perpetrator ignores that.

It is, unfortunately, notoriously difficult to get convictions if the victim is not also physically injured as well, providing corroborating evidence.

I guess what I was trying to say was that even drunk people out there having fun should not be labelled as 'asking for it' if they are raped and bashed while drunk.

While they may have been stupid enough to be in so vulnerable a position, it does not give rapists the right to go ahead and take what they like.

Robert, the violent homosexual rapist may not necessarily be obviously gay or a big guy at all. He wouldn't need to be if you were mindlessly drunk and vulnerable at the time he wanted to sexually assault you.
Remember the taxi driver that raped all those drunk men he picked up in his taxi? Did those men 'ask for it'?

Does a sexual assault on a male cause everyone else to say that he 'asked for it' by being a drunk and vulnerable victim at the time?

No, it doesn't.
Sounds like double standards to me.

I'm torn, I don't respect the female type that dress next to nothing, hit on anything with a male appendage and display little self respect.

I don't respect the male equivalent to that either.

I don't think a woman should dress like that, drink massive amounts and hint that she is ready to have sex with someone.
I don't think a woman should have to worry about being raped either.

I don't think men have the right to assume that a woman will sleep with them.
I don't think a woman has the right to assume she can fall all over someone and not expect that they want to sleep with them.

I suppose everyone has to be careful and know that certain behavior can attract an unwanted response, fueling the fire.
But then there should be no fire in the first place.