see http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/27/technology/27virus.html
The sophistocation of this virus according to computer experts points to Govt creation and this case the evidence is pointing to Israel.The virus has proliferated mainly in the Iranian nuclear facilities,but now is spreading around the planet.It has the capacity to not only seriously disrupt our basic services such as water,power etc but also our defence systems.It can mutate into a different identity and can lay dormant in our computers until an activation code is sent from a central authority.

This sort of highly sophistocated Govt generated virus has the potential for total chaos in our society.eg How do the Banks back up their systems? Do they keep hard copies or just another digital copy prone to virus attack?

I back up on a separate hard drive but if it is also infected,then data gets destroyed.

Perhaps we should all do daily print outs of our bank accounts,since it seems that a total system collapse is possible.

"Perhaps we should all do daily print outs of our bank accounts,since it seems that a total system collapse is possible."

Arjay 'is possible' is a rather broad term. Allow me to demonstrate:

-Perhaps I should consider moving to Madagascar, since it seems that a volcano emerging under my house 'is possible'.

-Perhaps we should ban rubber bands, since it seems that a terrorist attack using rubber bands to aim for our eyes 'is possible'.

-Perhaps we should run screaming for the hills, since an uprising of household appliances led by the suspiciously che-gueverra-like-toaster sitting on my countertop 'is possible'.

Nice conspiracy theory. I prefer my conspiracy theories to have freemasons though. I'm a traditionalist.

Yes Arjay, perhaps you should rethink your sentence structure.

Obviously "is possible" is so broad indeed that it is not free from an over-analytical retort that produces nothing but a mocking useless contribution to a relevant thread, as the post above me demonstrates.

I wouldn't think it at all unlikely that a viral attack is already underway, a total system crash resulting in complete chaos is definitely possible.
Not many people in the scheme of things are that computer savvy, a lot of people will lose a lot of data.

I bet TRTL has not even read the article.This is not in the realm of fantacy.If they can get into the systems of a nuclear reactor then banks can be just as easy.Bank internet fraud is a common occurence but banks don't like to advertise the down side.

Nicnoto,what is needed is a back up system that cannot be altered no matter what virus attacks it.ie updates can only be done via a physical imput by the user eg a physical switch which cannot be compromised.

Pfft- I don't see how this is a conspiracy- governments try to hack each other's systems all the time, and I wouldn't put it past a few to make a few viruses.

Of course, most likely (despite conspiracies) governments and corporations don't bother- simple reason is there are PLENTY of people willing to do it for free, and will be quite happy to target such things without intervention.

Not to say such bodies will not try to find these people and, upon locating them, ask them if they'd like a job with them;

Most of the best hackers in the world end up working for governments- that's why many government and high-level corporate systems are so secure and hard to break.

Excellent Post Arjay, and is it true that Israel generated this virus. That is the interesting question. Or was it the US ?.

If so, you would have to worry about a Gov't indulging in cyber crime and particularly cyber crime that ultimately ends up out of control and around the planet.

I'm a mac user, would this also be true of Mac's.

The other aspect that pricked my ears is that, the virus can remain dormant, and be activated from a central location.

If so it becomes clear that that location needs to be identified and promptly and the perpetrators identified and punished accordingly.

This is not your typical computer virus, it effects industrial controllers made by Siemans. It's spread (No Surprise there) by placing an infected USB stick into a Microsoft Windows (TM) computer which is used to program the industrial contoller(PLC - Programmable Logic Controller). Anyone using Microsoft Windows (TM) in mission critical applications such as a nuclear power station gets everything they deserve, hell I don't even use it to play games it's that insecure.

I think you'll find most sane banks will be running a Linux/Unix back-end in which something like this is impossible to happen, so you can sleep sound with your money in the bank!

If you know your bank uses Microsoft Windows (TM), then maybe you should consider changing banks! I won't even deal with a company that stores my personal information on a Microsoft Windows (TM) machine. If I have to deal with them, I don't give them anything I don't want someone else to know!

It's a pox and anyone playing with it will get the pox one day, that you can be 100% certain of!

Thinker2; what puzzles the experts is that is could have been specifically designed just to attack industrial computers, eg the Iranian Reactors, but they designed it to spread into the wider commuity.They say it is able to mutate.If so,how do they then ensure it's original purpose remains intact?

Rawmustard says it will only affect Windows(TM)so most banks are OK.It is very unusual for a pro-Israeli News paper like the NY Times writing such a damning story heavily implicating Israel.

lol Knew it was Arjay from the title.

Needs Freemasons though, I'm with TRTL on that one.

Stg Not even your Free Masons could conjure this one up.You have to stop talking about conspiracy theories because this is reality.You are getting delusional.

Just did some more research about Stuxnet.Stuxnet is now history.The real worry for them is that hackers have a new generation of virus which they can now build on that is undetectable by our anti-virus programs.So this is just the beginning of problems for us.Symantec will just be able to charge us more for our next generation of Norton anti-virus.

I wouldn't be at all surprised, Arjay.

>>The sophistocation of this virus according to computer experts points to Govt creation and this case the evidence is pointing to Israel<<

If I was looking at ways to protect the country from Iranian nuclear warfare, I'd use malware as one of my defence mechanisms too. Nothing like a bit of industrial disruption, good for the ego.

But your understanding of Stuxnet and malware in general leads you into some rather silly places.

>>The virus has proliferated mainly in the Iranian nuclear facilities,but now is spreading around the planet<<

Not "mainly" Iran.

China, Indonesia and India have also been hard hit.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/01/stuxnet_china_analysis/

>>It has the capacity to not only seriously disrupt our basic services such as water,power etc but also our defence systems<<

Not really. Only if everyone concerned is fast asleep. Besides, it only affects Windows systems. Most critical systems these days shun Windows like the plague.

Which, in fact, it closely resembles.

>>It can mutate into a different identity and can lay dormant in our computers until an activation code is sent from a central authority<<

But one of the interesting aspects of Stuxnet is that the perpetrators didn't seem to care who became infected. By spreading it widely, they enabled it to be identified and fixed.

You also have to be aware that the majority of commentators on its dangers have a vested interest in selling you stuff that protects you from viruses. Hence the comment of "process control girl" on Bruce Schneier's blog.

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/09/the_stuxnet_wor.html

"The consultants and anti-virus companies want to make it sound like TEOTWAWKI and so advanced that the average human cannot understand what's going on. Interesting that they are the ones who get financial and notoriety boots with such talk."

So, relax, Arjay. Your bank account is safe.

For the moment, anyway.

Outing yourself as a mouthpiece for President Ahmadinejad might not have been the smartest move.

Who knows what could happen to you.

Does your machine run Windows? Hmmmm.

Iran is far from perfect but the West has lost the plot Pericles.The reasons for invading Iran has no basis in fact.China is an ally of Iran.We know the invasion of Iraq was a total lie.Why should we believ the neo-cons in USA/Israel now?

Name one country Iran has invaded,then name all the invasions and interfernence the USA has perpetrated around the planet.

The stats initially show that 60% of this virus was in Iran.It was clearly aimed at the Iranian nuclear facilities.Wikileaks reported a nuclear accident in Iran which did not happen.They expected a nuclear accident due to the Stuxnet virus attack.This points to Wikileaks being a possible agent for Israel.

Cyber warfare is inevitable which is why governments spend money on organisations like DSD to protect information and protect from sabotage. Computer viruses will no doubt play a part in 'digital warfare' and like any form of warfare the risk is how it might effect the innocents in its path.

Iran's nuclear capability is seen as a threat so it is a natural target just as banks and financial institutions will be a target for financial profiteers or terrorists.

Government departments are more and more aware of cyber threats and there are strict policies in place including those secure gateways and other intrusion detection devices and anti-virus detection software.

Whether or not this one was government constructed is not clear but it is certainly possible.

"Well, derrr" Arjay.

>>The real worry for them is that hackers have a new generation of virus which they can now build on that is undetectable by our anti-virus programs<<

No-one would bother to create a virus that is detectable by existing anti-virus software. That would be stupid.

Not sure where you get your numbers from, either.

>>The stats initially show that 60% of this virus was in Iran<<

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/01/stuxnet_china_analysis/

"In fact stats from Russian anti-virus firm Kaspersky Lab suggest far more systems in India (86,000) and Indonesia (34,000) have been infected than the 14,000 systems hit in Iran."

>>It was clearly aimed at the Iranian nuclear facilities<<

That is one theory. Sounds eminently feasible. But this is just plain silly:

>>Wikileaks reported a nuclear accident in Iran which did not happen.They expected a nuclear accident due to the Stuxnet virus attack.This points to Wikileaks being a possible agent for Israel.<<

For the record - and you can easily check this yourself - Wikileaks made no connection between the "accident" they reported, and Stuxnet. In fact Assange himself went on record to say:

"Two weeks ago, a source associated with Iran's nuclear program confidentially told WikiLeaks of a serious, recent, nuclear accident at Natanz... WikiLeaks would not normally mention such an incident without additional confirmation, however according to Iranian media and the BBC, today the head of Iran's Atomic Energy Organization, Gholam Reza Aghazadeh, has resigned under mysterious circumstances."

Notice too, Arjay, that the accident was supposed to have been at Natanz, not Bushehr.

But please, don't let facts stand in the way of a great conspiracy theory.

StG, I think you may be on the wrong track.

>>Needs Freemasons though, I'm with TRTL on that one.<<

Today's lethal conspiracies require the Illuminati. Freemasons are mere amateurs.

I think El Reg should have the last word:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/01/stuxnet_china_analysis/

"In the absence of hard facts about the worm all sorts of wild speculation and conspiracy theories have flourished, including a surprising volume of discussions linking Stuxnet to UFOs and even suggesting it might be a prelude to alien invasion"

Arjay, my reaction wasn't against the fact that you were indicating that the virus may be government created.

It was the way you hinted that it would destroy the internet.

I mean: "total system collapse"?

Sure, you can say that we need to be 'vigilant' but when you're vigilant about every little thing and say things like 'total collapse', then it enters the realms of fantasy, be it computer viruses or killer bees.

And then when you draw comparisons between Iran and the US, indicating that Iran is the lesser of two evils, well, I can't help but think about how the Iranian people marched on the streets against their leaders.

Until some were shot, that is. Not to mention the fact that gay people are hanged in public squares and their leaders call for Israel to be wiped from the map, including presumably, all the women and children who live there.

But hey, they're not 'neo-cons,' so it's ok, right?

Or this time, is it just a 'conspiracy' against Iran? Is it only a mere conspiracy when it concerns groups other than Israel/America?

P.S. Pericles, StG the Freemasons ARE the illuminati. Duh.

""" and their leaders call for Israel to be wiped from the map, including presumably, all the women and children who live there. """

Will people please stop perpetuating that American/Zionist media, propaganda, myth.

Their leaders never called for Israel to be wiped off the map; including woman and children.

What they said was they wanted to rid the world of the radical Zionist element which have taken over the country of Israel, much like America just removed an abhorrent leader from Iraq. It's quite a big difference in case you hadn't noticed!

Those Zionists are a bunch of scum that have been killing innocent human beings for years and disrupting countries all over the planet over some fairy tale story of being the chosen ones, they are the true terrorists. Read the report just released about the flotilla massacre on the Gaza convoy. Those scum have been flouting International law for decades and the west just send them more money for Christs sake! Is it any wonder some might want this pox eradicated from our planet.

Wow, that's very ... Illuminating! .... thank you thank you, I'll be here all week. Try the veal.

Since 911 the USA has been turning into a facist state.Habeas Corpus has been nullified with terrorists able to be incarcerated indefinitely without trial or legal council.Obama's presidential edict ie 'Preventative Detention 'allows for suspected terrorists to be detained indefinitely again without trial.

Are we stark raving stupid? This is Nazi Germany re-visited with the masses being etherised by Murdoch media lies and Hollywood distractions.

The Zionists have done to Israel what the Nazis did to Germany.This time it is being justified by AGW and over population.Only the chosen people will survive this self imposed holocaust.

Fighting the fight for the Hamas, Iran, and terrorists, Arjay. You're an odd one mate.

Anti Jew, and democracy, you're anti-government, and blame the world's woes on "Zionists". Why don't ya grab a rifle and put your money where your mouth is in Afghanistan or Iraq?. I believe the Taliban feed ya once in awhile. Plenty of virgins to go around too going by all the suicide bombings by your 'victim' brothers. Mate, if we weren't shooting at them they'd be shooting at each other.

Your fundi muslim mates are nothing more than a bunch of prehistoric animals that have the compassion for human life equal to a chainsaw. Go to the ync.com and see what they do to each other - caveat: don't.

So *that's* where they disappeared to. I always wondered.

>>P.S. Pericles, StG the Freemasons ARE the illuminati. Duh.<<

I should be used to Arjay's dramatics by now, but this one pulled me up short.

>>...the masses being etherised by Murdoch...<<

Last time I was etherised, when I woke up one of my internal organs had been cut out.

True story.

I read the article, but missed the bit where the evidence pointed at Israel. I did see the bit about an unrelated incident from 2007 in which the Israelis MAY HAVE used a killswitch to shut down a Syrian radar when they launched an attack. The assumption that Israel is the only country with the means and motive to do this to Iran (and other nations) is a bit demeaning to much of the world.

TurnRightThenLeft, "P.S. Pericles, StG the Freemasons ARE the illuminati. Duh."

What a giggle, the Freemasons, huh?

Having been exposed to a number of Freemasons through relatives and their friends, I can assure you that "the illuminati" would be most let down by the Masons. From what I've seen it is a harmless fraternal society for fellows who find reassurance in knowing other men who are as boringly moral, family and community minded as they are. Like the Lions or Apex I'd say. BTW, some relatives who are members are Catholics, no apparent discrimination there.

About as exciting as the women's croquet club, but no-where near as exciting as a country town CWA (which has more palatable food and bingo).

Pericles,

'let us go you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table
Let us go,through certain half deserted streets
The muttering retreats
Of restless nights in one -night cheap hotels
And the sawdust restaurants with oyster shells
Streets that follow like a tedious argument
Of insidious intent
To lead you to an overwhelming question'

Do you dare,do you dare,comprehend this puny verse?

Name the poem and author.

I just wikipedia'd (can that be a verb yet?) the illuminati and was most amused to discover:

"The movement was made up of freethinkers, as an offshoot of the Enlightenment, and seems to have been modeled on the Freemasons.[3]"

My half-assed sarcasm appears to have backfired into half-assed accuracy... And yet, the total ass-quotient appears to remain stubbornly low.

From now on, I'm just gonna pin half-assed conspiracy theories on Rotarians. It's just easier this way.

Half-assed is right.

A bit of T. S. Eliot never hurt anyone on a balmy Wednesday evening, did it? You made my evening with that one, Arjay.

Absolutely, Cornflower. Whole-assed conspiracy theories are half as entertaining and twice as time consuming.

(FTR though, I agree about the Freemasons. Met a few myself while living in North Queensland and even attended one ceremony. About the only group who are less likely to have nefarious designs on world domination are probably the Rotarians... I dunno about the CWA though. I wouldn't put it past them and their suspiciously delicious lamingtons with tea).

Not sure how Prufrock joined the discussion, but I'll work with it for a while.

I actively dislike most poetry. Too much up itself. But I kinda like this description:

"On the surface, 'The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock' relays the thoughts of a sexually frustrated middle-aged man who wants to say something but is afraid to do so, and ultimately does not."

http://alfredprufrock.com/love-song

Are you trying to tell us something, Arjay?

As for the etherising...

"In general, Eliot uses imagery which is indicative of Prufrock’s character, representing aging and decay. For example, 'When the evening is spread out against the sky / Like a patient etherized upon a table'"

Aging and decay. No wonder you're so permanently pessimistic, Arjay.

Yes Pericles.The Corporate media do have us etherised.We are a community of Prufrocks too scared to take on the corporate facists.

Speak for yourself, Arjay.

>>Yes Pericles.The Corporate media do have us etherised.We are a community of Prufrocks too scared to take on the corporate facists.<<

I'd be so bold as to suggest that it is you who has been etherised, Arjay, from constant exposure to a bunch of unfulfilled, attention-seeking, paranoid conspiracy theorists.

You might associate yourself with "imagery ... representing aging and decay", Arjay. But you can actually liberate yourself from such Prufrockian despair, should you choose.

in order to do so, simply stop feeding yourself paranoid nightmares, and start living.

It's actually quite good out here in the real world, you know.

Face reality Pericles.Even in a pro Zionist paper like the NY Times, they see Isarel as being a perveyer of cyber crime.This is not just conspiracy theory.The only thing that makes anything theory is that it is often beyond our realms of experience or cognition.

The neo-cons in Israel and the USA did 911.You know it and so do our Govts.The evidence is irrefutable. http://ae911truth.org/
http://patriotsquestion911.com/

You know the deep down truth Pericles,that is why you are so dogged in your persuit of myself.

Nowhere did I suggest, Arjay, that Israel had nothing to do with Stuxnet.

>>Face reality Pericles.Even in a pro Zionist paper like the NY Times, they see Isarel as being a perveyer of cyber crime.This is not just conspiracy theory<<

In fact the first words I posted here were "I wouldn't be at all surprised".

Even though there are aspects of Stuxnet's trajectory that indicate a carelessness that is not normally associated with Israeli cyber-skills. Which are, as is widely acknowledged, prodigious.

In fact, I equally wouldn't be at all surprised to find, when it all unravels, that this turns out to be a false-flag operation run by Iran.

Hmmm. False flag operation. You like those, don't you Arjay.

But you flatter yourself.

>>You know the deep down truth Pericles,that is why you are so dogged in your persuit of myself.<<

It's just that you so often provide a perfect motherlode of material to satirize. Other times, you're just plain wrong.

But I'm sorry that you feel persecuted.