I see in a media report of a man who called 000 ten times, only to die some 4 minutes after they arrived THREE HOURS LATER.

Early reports suggest two shortcomings.

1. Several staff didn't want to work on grand final day.

2. Many staff on a meal break because they had worked 6 hours without a break.

Now as for 1. If you would have normally worked that day, then tough! Do your job.

2. There are reports suggesting they were 50% busier than normal. So, sorry people we can't help you because the union says we have to have a break.

So what's next. Soldiers not being available to fight due to a meal break.

Is it little wonder our nation is becoming the laughing stock of our region when it comes to how weak our workforce has become..

All this means rehctub is that there are not enough staff in those operational roles to cover for those meal breaks. All the budget is being spent on the Wah Wah jobs at the top and you are lucky if extra can trickle down to the bottom end. And yes it is usually the lowest paid that work in these frontline positions.

Your one-side scenario is not usually the reality. I have worked in a couple of jobs where public demands meant no breaks during times that were very busy and where it was important for the operation to be manned. Most people use their commonsense but then might make approaches to management to ensure that there are enough staff on to cope with the workload, in real life that does not always happen and most people go the extra mile despite how the unions might react even if it means eating dinner at your desk in between operational requirements.

Also look at it another way. One of the problems in our local large hospital is the long hours that doctors and nurses in the casualty ward work often without breaks to cope with the long queues of patients. These medical professionals are more likely to make a mistake when highly fatigued - many now working an average of 15 hour shifts. I know as a patient I would rather be treated by a rested person who is not overtired or as many are, suffering from depression and at the point of exhaustion.

Sometimes workers will do what they have to do. Most workers do have a sense of doing the right thing even if it means going without a break now and then.

The onus is on managers and policy makers to ensure that sufficient money is spent on service delivery and less on window dressing policy and empire building projects (or the dreaded SES bonuses).

'All the budget is being spent on the Wah Wah jobs at the top'

Gold! I love it. Wah Wah jobs. I gotta get me one of them.

In a job where the take home pay is often over $100,000, I believe it would be hard to find a "low paid worker" anywhere, except in the workshop where they maintain the vehicles.

Part of the problem is over specification of staff & vehicles. We now have 4 ton vehicles, better equipped than some country hospitals, with extremely highly qualified officers, so we can take the patient on a 100+Km scenic tour, looking for a hospital not on by-pass.

They can, when finally let into a hospital parking space, act as a high tech waiting room for some hours until the hospital finally bothers to see them.

I live in the middle of nowhere. However I do have 5 ambulance stations within 24Km of me. People in my area have noticed that the time taken to get an ambulance has grown proportionally to the cost & complication of the vehicles they use.

It is now not uncommon to wait an hour, even for a heart attack victim. Surprisingly, when you finally get one, you often get another in minutes. Could it be the meal brakes are over?

Of course while you have 2, some other patient is probably sweating on getting just one.

I don't know why anyone would expect anything else. Both the ambulance service & the hospitals are run by public servants.

One of the things I used to love about the TV show ER, was to see them running as they pushed a patient into the place. It used to break me up. Have you ever seen a public servant actually run, except to be first out the door of course?

It's unclear as to who may have been responsible for this event.

Did it take the 000 operators "hours" to put the call through to the correct area?

Did they put it through to the wrong area?

Was there a problem between the Ambulance or Emergency operators that took "hours' to resolve?

Was there a problem with the directions given?

What distances or other circumstances were involved?

Was there a problem in actually reaching the 000 operators?

Was there a problem with communication or with the message itself?

There seem to be many possibilities - none of which seem likely to be true but are generalised to the point of vaguely blaming "the system" itself.

As much as it's fashionable to stick it to all Public Servants I find it difficult to believe that emergency services would be so lax in responding to a genuine medical emergency.

What was the media report?

Rechtub asks us to believe the union is at fault.
That six hours mate is well out side rules not made by unions for meal breaks, it proves commitment by the workers.
An other talks of hundred thousands wages not likely.
Such jobs are very low paid even sent off shore so savings can be made.
The mighty dollar rules not sick or endangered people.
That young man, left to die in the NSW blue mountains? telling a silly operator time and again he was lost in the bush only to be told he must give his nearest street crossing.
What part rechtub did unions play there, what union here can you confirm it was a union member working to rules that bought this about?
Are you aware it is likely no union members work there.
Given the nature of the job only the best only truly committed should work there.
Like others here I am a ham radio operator, like them I often do free communications and believe me not every one can be trusted to do that job.
In the middle of an on air call for Ambos, after asking for radio silence declaring an emergency a woman constantly broke over me, to inform me she was out of bananas, my sick person died there on the road the lady afterwords said she heard me but wanted to have those bananas in case some one wanted them.
Blame the people but ask are you sure you know what truly happened who is to blame,
Start with wages pay peanuts get moneys.

Belly, I don't quite know how you off shore an ambulance officers job, & no they have not off shored the call centers quite yet, all though they may as well have when we can get a WA operator who has no idea of SE Qld.

I'll agree with the money, but in the emergency area of hospitals. It is hard for an ambulance crew sitting for hours, with a patient, at a hospital forecourt to be doing what they are hired for.

When I was transferred by ambulance, to PA hospital cardiac unit recently, there were 8 ambulances sitting outside the emergency entrance, motors & air conditioning running. The stink of diesel fumes was almost overpowering, when they wheeled me out of the vehicle.

My paramedic said he was often stuck there, with a patient for a couple or three hours.

It is not the union to blame, it's Anna Bligh, & Peter Beattie where the problem lies, as with most of Queensland's problems.

Dear rehctub,

I heard about the case on the news and felt
appalled that this could happen.

I don't know enough about it to be able
to judge as to why it happened,I only know the
matter is under investigation, and we can
only hope that it doesn't happen again.

As a neighbour stated, "If only he'd come
to us we would have taken him to hospital,
and he'd be alive today."

If only.

As a neighbour stated, "If only he'd come
to us we would have taken him to hospital,
and he'd be alive today."

If only.

Well that's fine foxy. I don't know what your situation is, but here in QLD, you have no choice other than to be an ambulance subscriber, so, having fully paid your subscription, surely you should be entitled to the service when required, rather than relying on a nieghbour.

Now assumming they have compulsory subsciptions in Vic, the blame lies fair and square on the service as they have collected the fee, so they must provide the goods, otherwise it is theft.

And belly, surely you're not trying to deny the fact that it is the unuions who have insisted on a meal break within a certain timeframe, along with many other conditions.

Now if I were short staffed, and busy, I would stagger my breaks and expect common sense to take presidence in the final washup should my actions be questioned.

But then again, being a small business person, I am wholey accountable for my actions, both morally and financially.

BTW, if someone did stuff up, resulting in the loss of a life, unfair dismissal will give them two more chances to reoffend.

I say again, we are a joke in this country with our black and white IR laws.

weary of defending public sector workers.
Roll your self up in a ball, wrap your self in cling rap then tar over It all, try to do your job.
Only in the public sector are workers so confined by sillyness they can not do the job.
I refuse to blame a union for this IR laws are unchanged in meal times.
I want you bloke to know this is true both storys are my real life ones from yesterday.
EVERY worker union or not called on me to put a case to management, that 4 workers are not putting in, not working dragging them down.
strange work for me.
I Reminded the public servant it was and that jobs could be lost if he failed to act, he set out a 12 months improvement plan, agreed with me it would not work refused to try an instant fix.
A mob of thugs and mugs raided a work site abused my delegate and told him he would be sued for? not being prepared to join the bunch of criminals
Not every fault is union based or even worker based slugs who will not work fools who cannot are not being dumped in my yard.

I heard about the case on the news and felt
appalled that this could happen.
Foxy,
I am very saddened by these all too frequent occasions, be it health, education and/or law/policing. I tried to help vote the culprits out. May I ask what you do towards reducing these incidents when you hear about them ? It seems to me that at least %50 don't want things to change. Why else didn't they do anything about it at the last election ?

What is the point or arguing against and trying to fight all this? It is good to discuss the pros and cons of any topic. Complaining and venting about it helps get frustration out. There is such a small minority that really cares and want to make a difference. The laws were made because some people think it's better to be safer then sorry. So others have to pay by being limited to what they can do because of someone else's mistake.

The way I look at it, they should all make us live in one of those germ-free balls in a padded secure room :), no risk at all... except to maybe go insane.. ha ha ha

Life is full of risk. Risk is what makes life worth living. The choices we make in life makes us the person we are today. We learn from our mistakes in our past, and try never to repeat them again.

No point trying to live in the past. We can only learn from all the wrongs, live for the present and work to make a difference in our future. Trying to argue with the law will just be a waste of time and in that time so much more good can be done.

Belly, would you please tell me if it's the cling wrap, or the tar that makes a nurse continue for some minutes, talking about a TV program to another nurse, rather attend to someone at the counter of the nurse station.

Once you have that one, I'll give you another 50 to explain.

Come on mate, there is nothing like bullet proof protection from the boss to make a worker offer a less than adequate effort. Our public service has that in spades.

Dear rehctub,

We've always been Ambulance subscribers, and
have always paid for private health cover
as well. Luckily for us
we live in Melbourne - and have never had
a problem with anything, health wise. When
I needed an ambulance - it came within
approximately ten minutes - and I was rushed
to emergency at the nearest hospital. However,
I can appreciate the problems that people
living in rural areas encounter and hopefully
with health issues being on the current government's
agenda - these problems will be dealt with swiftly.
Providing of course that the Coalition doesn't
block everything.

Dear Individual,

Thanks for asking.

I did the best I could during the last election -
by voting for the government that offered the most
stability, and did have policies - concerning health,
education, and other important issues.

How about you?

How about you?
Foxy,
As I said in my post I did my bit towards stamping out the corruption & incompetence & misuse of public funding, I voted Coalition.
For my taste they have the edge on Labor as far as integrity is concerned. After all, hasn't that been proven over & over again ? In my book a 40 Billion surplus counts a lot more than a 50 billion debt. Does that make me a capitalist ? :-)

Hasbeen you would be proud of me, angry at the troll like inclusion by Individual in to this thread, he knows I am a refugee from that subject I said it like it is.
then deleted it.
Look public servants are as you say no difference, not the actual workers the foolish managers.
IF we want improvement contract out every job in management from front line Foreman up.
I love still my old government department, and joy of joys sit opposite the fools who destroy it.
we agree here but let me tell true workers are not the problem no union can save a fool but management surround them selves with unproductive people as insulation for them selves some one to blame.
1 in 4 of this country's workers are unionists,1 in 4 of those unions are rabbits, true but it is unlikely any union bought this about.

Dear Individual,

Oh dear.

The misuse of public funding is indeed an area
of concern. But so are cutbacks in funding for
health and hospitals. Tony Abbott has a litany
of cutbacks in that area when he was
health minister, and we are talking
about health issues here. Perhaps you'd be wise
to re-think your vote in three years time - that
is, if you want ambulance and health services to
exist at all. Money in the bank won't do you much
good when your life needs saving and there are
no services around to help you.

Think about it.

Good to see you here foxy, I have noted your troubles in verbal tennis land.
one poster will not ever stop so we must, even this post is only to inform you do not let him bait you.
in The dark swamp that is politics OLO style at present.
It seems we had two posters who are in fact one.
And we still look to have half of Abbott's cabinet posting here Pyne in my view for sure, do not feed the trolls please.
In time it will become clear, OLO is better than them.
We,you I half of this country's voters who did not vote for them, need not fight to defend our side.
LIES and BIAS will not change anything do not feed the trolls.
Hasbeen I will continue to try to find common ground with you life teaches us more than schools did.
I want and see progressive unionism to rule,this means and I see it happening the death of thugs and mugs type unions.
No soft under belly but true unionism working for better work out comes and job security too.
The blind hate, bitterness and refusal to understand the real causes of problems like this is not a solution.
Contract out leadership is an answer the dead hand of public servants leadership is squandering tax payers cash for worse than nothing.

Ok Foxy & Belly,
So what do you think about the massive debt incurred under Labor ? Do I assume that's alright in your books for you've made no reference to it in your reply. Exactly what funding has been cut to hospitals under the coalition ? Ambulance ? Isn't that a subscription setup ? What cuts have been made to ambulance services ? A litany of cut backs ? How many cutbacks & where ?
We know the home insulation scheme & the school debacle has cost us more than all other stuff ups by the coalition & that's a fact.
Foxy so fars as your condescending "oh Dear" goes I can only repeat myself by saying "those with no retort resort to ridicule" . Not flattering I know but neither is Oh Dear. Belly you've finally confirmed my long standing suspicion that you were a Public Servant. That explains everything.

Dear Individual,

Many a man thinks himself extremely sensitive
simply because he's easily put out.

There, is that any better than my saying,
"Oh Dear?"

I seriously meant it only as an expression - not
as a form of ridicule. Perhaps the problem may be
within you?
(Just a thought).

Anyway, you should realise that whilst a government
has been accumulating a surplus, it's been doing it
at somebody's expense -
federal infrastructure has been neglected.
But don't take my word for it - do your own research -
especially on Tony Abbott as health minister. It's
there on record.

As for Labor spending the surplus?
We're lucky their quick action saved this country from
going down the gurgler - you may recall the global
financial crisis?

Anyway, don't feel bad - you'll have a chance in three
years time to vote again.

Until then, give the current government a chance to do
their job. After all Howard was given four three year
terms. It's only fair.

I do not take either meal breaks or coffee breaks over 18 years working Rechtub, although see your point about people taking a break around the time of an emergency not adequately staffed.

Interesting topic this one.

Approximately 15 years ago a public servant could have found a couple of spare minutes to make themselves a coffee or chat for a couple of minutes. Similarly, people working in private enterprise.

Not today.

Most people I work with and around have never had the luxury to sip a coffee during their work day, let alone take a half hour break to put a sandwich in their mouths.

Yet, the half hour is subtracted from our wages as part of either certified agreements or by agencies and the law.

With the '.30mins and/or .60mins' break I am forced to state or have subtracted from my wages/income; these amounts would add up to a tidy sum annually. One day I may just submit a claim for all the months worked not able to take a break of .30mins in which I am never paid.

Given deadlines and always doing another person's job on top of my own, breaks are always out of the question.

How lovely would it be to walk out into the sunshine at 'lunch time'!

Rechtub, I wish to add that I work in both public service environments and private enterprise environments.

I do not see people taking breaks that they are entitled by law to take and the half hour and one hour 'break' is deducted from their wages.

A few in each place may take the odd break; not many trust me.

Indy you are aware I am not talking politics here, at least for a while.
You know,I have asked you, I do not want this thread diverted.
This morning I noted a mild flaming change had seen a post ,part of it diverted.
I read that post before it was deleted, it flamed me my party my whole lifetime of thinking.
A great number of us, me too are letting politics make us forget civility and of more importance honesty.
You have never not ever debated me, you thrust a silly question like that,a bait meant only to provoke, you know my answer you know the international monetary fund agrees we avoided a recession by Labors spending.
We are better placed than any country in the western world for having done it.
Both past Labor and Liberal governments put us on this firm footing, Labor as you are ALWAYS only too willing to remind me,got a great deal wrong in the past 2 years.
Continued.

Tony Abbott with great help from the gang of 4 special note to Kevin Rudd , honors to Gillard for outstanding effort in self promotion, has done very well.
His policy,the single one, is confrontation and fear, it worked.
20% of this country's voters are uninformed but like to stampede.
Here,can I be honest? in OLO I truly think Abbott and Pyne post.
I see the stampede theory again and again the my side or nothing policy's destruction.
You mate do not want open debate you want to wreck.
Some truths.
ETS Gillard ,never trust her,killed it BUT you understand things have changed if today your mob was in the chair you would be talking to the greens and independents.
To try to pretend you would not have your arm up your back as Labor has is a lie.
And say I am wrong,tell me again how we did not win the 2 party preffered.
more Australians voted for Labor that way than your mob.
I see interviewers who ask questions that can only be answered In a way that feeds confrontation , not truth.
Labor remember got those ex NATS BECAUSE the nats have NEVER said our votes help the Bush or we leave ,those two ex nats insisted we debate climate change hate me if you wish.
But unmask, I have tell us who you are why you use slander tell me why the free flowing diatribe against Labor is ruining this site why not one of you are concerned with anything your side is doing? weak that is my view of those who fail to take up my challenge.
continued

ending the above I clearly remain with pride a Labor voter sins and all they are far in front of conservatives.
But note no conservative can be convinced to talk of their failures.
IR laws ,no way any laws have changed in relation to meal breaks.
The basic is this 20 minute smoko is a paid meal break taken about two and a half hours into shift.
Lunch except weekend can be half hour or hour it is not paid mostly and extra time is added on to cover it unpaid.
Many variations exist as both boss and worker do deals.
Some, a great many,take a break while work continues in construction some do not eat until a process's done, concrete or hot mix 2pm or 3pm for lunch.
rechtub would have us believe its war at work rubbish,
Some eat on the run and do not stop others say lets get this done then knock of no meal breaks.
no union can isolate fools and idiots from work.
ask your self this, if a human put their meal break before this case who is running the show?
if my hairy chested rough nut construction workers get the job done before taking a meal how did rechtub find this stone to throw?
if any one who worked in my team in my leadership days did this I would see it never happened again and tell the bloke how to find the nearest dole office.
still if you hate unions and workers that much the thread served its purpose.
DRAGONS rechtub.

I never was a public servant I left 115 sick days untaken and worked a 27 hour day once and many in high double figures
no easy job being part of the death and destruction on the Pacific highway as it once was.
Individual truly,debate is about open minds and it is about truth it bloke is a way to sometimes find we are both wrong, but talking with you is like entering the Melbourne to Sydney bike race on a bike without wheels.

we are unique and belly
We would all agree that there are literally millions of emails sent via work computers each and every year.

Now, if the majority of people do in fact work through their break, which I doubt, my guys always get their breaks, is it then fair for them to complain about the lack of breaks, yet continue to send texts and emails during working hours?

Simple answer would be nice.

And belly, I have the script here for the big game mate. Remember, defence does not win fainals.

Neck and next for the first 40, perhaps 6 all, then, at about the 5oth minute, when the dragons are puffed from all their defending, carney, pearse and anansta will carve them up. It's three against one, as you only have soward.

Roosters by at least 13 points.

The saints will panic as they have never won a final in their own right, but have become seasoned brides maids.

Now, if the majority of people do in fact work through their break, which I doubt, my guys always get their breaks, is it then fair for them to complain about the lack of breaks, yet continue to send texts and emails during working hours?

No it is wrong Rechtub obviously unless an emergency with children or an issue with children and/or family.

For 18 years I have worked in honesty, 12-14 hour days; paid only for 7-8 hours. School holidays off on occasions non-paid. Most workplaces are more than happy for me to get the job done in my own time [free to them].

My choice over the years regarding job satisfaction. I still feel it is wrong though, on behalf of others, who are unable to take a break at all, yet wages are deducted for their non-breaks.

However, I comprehend why the uniformity and laws were put in place years ago for employees.

Back to the point, in my line of work dealing with emergencies one cannot take a break at work unless there is someone to cover, usually there is not. Always short staffed.

Few people would walk away to take 'their break' during emergencies. Some people not valuing the work they do or staff who have simply had enough of working in two positions covering for everyone over a long period of time perhaps observing others 'taking their breaks' over many years.

rechtub no once not ever have I sent other than work related e mails during work ours.
Emails are more often used as a way to get work done in my area.
I feel every time you launch in to a hard one sided view of life I have met you, been in your shop.
But no it was two other blokes old cranky blokes who saw the world via a hole in a fence .
First IR laws did not do this, are you saying do not need them?
Todays workers are far different from the ones who won the 40 hour week, so are the bosses , do you wish to return workers to the days that saw unions formed.
Or to kill the industry that is based on leisure time?
Dragons by 15 never in doubt see you here to talk about it tomorrow.
PS
totally true, a boss never knows what his workers think of him if he is too harsh.
more often than you think the bloke who says my door is always open is despised by every one.
the bloke who thinks that but does not push it down their necks is often respected by every one, including the union.

WAU>>For 18 years I have worked in honesty, 12-14 hour days; paid only for 7-8 hours

Yer, right, pull the other one!

LOL Rechtub its the 'truth' Lol with a few breaks of a week or two in between LOL.

God love you, I told you life wasnt black and white Rechtub lol.

God love you, I told you life wasnt black and white Rechtub lol.

Yes, and you have summed it up perfectly, life is not black and white.

So why are IR laws 'black or white'?